Is Ruff too harsh on players?

[papazoid]

as a fan.....roy, vanek and stafford are very frustrating players to watch......i can only imagine what lindy ruff must be thinking.

 

they go thru long stretches where they are floating around giving half effort. i'm sure lindy has tried to point this out to them many many times in a civil way. at some point they need a kick in the azz to get the message.

 

Vanek - outstanding finisher.....but takes stupid penalties and rarely makes an effort to play defense....not worth $7 mil.

Roy - he needs to go...they must trade him.....for anything...just dump his salary.

Stafford- if he could only play the entire year like he did when paired with ennis and foligno. prior to that he was horrible, all due to lack of effort.

 

 

Ruff is not the reason these players play the way they do. they all deserve the comments they get. i place this blame on darcy....after 6-7 years, how do you not know your players. DARCY NEEDS TO GO !!

[FolignosJock]

God ruff is so TERRIBLE I mean COME on he is invited to Coach Team Canada at the Worlds..... Wow those Canadian hockey guys must not know how HARSH he is on his players

 

 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm but this ###### is so old, come on guys we are better than this. Lindy Ruff is a top coach in this league and would be the most sought after coach if he got fired. I want him coaching this team and I want Darcy to stay, he had an awesome trade deadline and has earned another year with this team (hopefully healthy) to see what they can actually do.

[bcsaberks]

Little things like "firmer hand-shake Thomas". You just rewarded the guy with an "A". "Leader!" Then in the next breathe you demasculate? In public. WTF. Not cool. Maybe Lindy was nervous? Maybe it was an inside joke? Maybe he's a db?

I have no issue with Ruff to media "X needs to be better" once in a while, after a big game, whatever.

And TV is all class in his interview, but you can hear it in his voice.

Offer Lindy a consultant role (which he will turn down I'd guess) and move on. :wallbash:

 

God ruff is so TERRIBLE I mean COME on he is invited to Coach Team Canada at the Worlds..... Wow those Canadian hockey guys must not know how HARSH he is on his players

 

 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm but this ###### is so old, come on guys we are better than this. Lindy Ruff is a top coach in this league and would be the most sought after coach if he got fired. I want him coaching this team and I want Darcy to stay, he had an awesome trade deadline and has earned another year with this team (hopefully healthy) to see what they can actually do.

Politics come in to play for that Worlds spot I'd bet. And even if he's a good hockey coach, it doesn't mean he's the best coach for this group of players at this time.

See Torts, Labiallette, etc.

[Kristian]

God ruff is so TERRIBLE I mean COME on he is invited to Coach Team Canada at the Worlds..... Wow those Canadian hockey guys must not know how HARSH he is on his players

 

 

 

Sorry for the sarcasm but this ###### is so old, come on guys we are better than this. Lindy Ruff is a top coach in this league and would be the most sought after coach if he got fired. I want him coaching this team and I want Darcy to stay, he had an awesome trade deadline and has earned another year with this team (hopefully healthy) to see what they can actually do.

 

Last time Lindy coached team Canada, the first time they met an opponent who could match their talent through all four lines, they came out flat, getting beat to loose pucks, losing board battles, and even got somewhat manhandled in the process. By Team freakin' Russia, who aren't exactly known for their Broad Street Bully impression.

 

Canada took an early 1-0 lead, which was ll the offense they could muster on that night, losing 1-2 despite outshooting the Russians 37-15.

 

Not surprisingly Roy was on the ice a lot late, while Lindy's otherwise red hot first line of Doan, Heatley and Spezza didn't see much ice in the 3rd, down by a goal.

 

Now, I'll agree the sample size is miniscule at best, but that game was like watching the Buffalo Sabres play the Panthers in a Sunday afternoon game.

 

Also, aren't the obvious choices busy coaching their NHL clubs in the playoffs, at that time?

[ROCBuffalo]

I can see why the players get upset about the coach talking to the Media but guess what, if you mess up, Lindy is going to call you out no matter what your status is with the team. I think there should be a change, but I don't think that Lindy calling out players is wrong. He is telling the truth, isn't that what we all want to hear? It is true about the core players this year, Miller was performing very well but then gave up 10 goals in two games, when Lucic took him out the fans did mroe then the player, Vanek, Roy, Pommer, Stafford didn't perform the way they needed to this season, they were all in the lineup throughout the season during the injuries and we just kept losing. We were lucky we were even in the playoff race. If you mess up and if your doing something wrong, Lindy is going to tell the truth about it. You have to respect that.

[Patty16]

Little things like "firmer hand-shake Thomas". You just rewarded the guy with an "A". "Leader!" Then in the next breathe you demasculate? In public. WTF. Not cool. Maybe Lindy was nervous? Maybe it was an inside joke? Maybe he's a db?

I have no issue with Ruff to media "X needs to be better" once in a while, after a big game, whatever.

And TV is all class in his interview, but you can hear it in his voice.

Offer Lindy a consultant role (which he will turn down I'd guess) and move on. :wallbash:

 

 

Politics come in to play for that Worlds spot I'd bet. And even if he's a good hockey coach, it doesn't mean he's the best coach for this group of players at this time.

See Torts, Labiallette, etc.

 

If? He's universally respected as one of the top coaches in the league. No one with sort of hockey sense considers him anything else.

 

HOWEVER, your last sentence is really what the issue before team management is; the right coach right now?

[shrader]

!5 years, the longest tenured coach in hockey and possibly all professional sports, and no championships? So, what has he won?

 

The Philly broadcast listed the 4 longest tenured coaches in all of sports the other day:

-San Antonio's coach

-Lindy

-Barry Trotz

-Andy Reid

 

I found that list very interesting because what do three of those four have in common? And then if you go back further and look at three other coaches who were recently at the top of that list:

-Tony LaRussa

-Jeff Fisher

-Utah Jazz coach

 

The trend continues with those three. All of these guys were kept around forever and all have been recognized as good coaches. What earns them that label?

[FolignosJock]

Last time Lindy coached team Canada, the first time they met an opponent who could match their talent through all four lines, they came out flat, getting beat to loose pucks, losing board battles, and even got somewhat manhandled in the process. By Team freakin' Russia, who aren't exactly known for their Broad Street Bully impression.

 

Canada took an early 1-0 lead, which was ll the offense they could muster on that night, losing 1-2 despite outshooting the Russians 37-15.

 

Not surprisingly Roy was on the ice a lot late, while Lindy's otherwise red hot first line of Doan, Heatley and Spezza didn't see much ice in the 3rd, down by a goal.

 

Now, I'll agree the sample size is miniscule at best, but that game was like watching the Buffalo Sabres play the Panthers in a Sunday afternoon game.

 

 

 

He also assisted a gold medal winner the last olympics, Ill agree thats a small sample size but those games were like watching the best hockey team in the world.....

[Marvelo]

Didn't actually read the article, eh? All three say they're fine with it, even Roy.

 

yeah right, they're fine with it. :angel: As they say in Boston, just don't kill the job. Seriously I think LR has been kicking a dead horse now for years and it's time to get rid of the kicker and the horse. There's too much built-up animosity here and the organization and fans need a fresh start.

[DaGimp]

this is the problem with the organization...they are all soft from the GM to the players. Darcy makes trades that make the team softer, Lindy is afraid to have a real captain that would question his bonehead moves and most of the players are just soft and weak both mentally and physically.

 

http://wgr550.com/pa...tentId=10363936

 

I think Paul Hamilton is spot on in this article. The quotes from Roy, Vanek and Stafford are telling. Who'd really like your coach to be yapping at him for 6-7 years to his face and to the media? It seems to me what happened to this team this year is mutiny, rightful or not.

[FolignosJock]

this is the problem with the organization...they are all soft from the GM to the players. Darcy makes trades that make the team softer, Lindy is afraid to have a real captain that would question his bonehead moves and most of the players are just soft and weak both mentally and physically.

 

 

What trade made this team softer?? Darcy pulled out one of the best deadline days of a GM in probably the last ten years, getting an extra first and hodgson for the future. We lost what exactly in that trade? The throw in defender we got in the deal put up more points than the three players we gave up combined not to mention we now have a good center that can skate unlike gaustad and an extra first round pick.

[Ross Rhea]

Look at it from this perspective. How would you react if your boss went off on you and more or less said your job was on the line? If my employer did that, I'd increase the job performance. Even though these guys are playing hockey, it's still a profession. Their job performance has a huge impact on the their employment status.

 

but if your boss rides you to do better and you do do better but the boss keeps riding you what are you to do? it gets old after awhile, and then you ask yourself, i picked it up, did better, like he wanted and he is still ragging on me. after that cycles through it becomes like white noise and the coach/boss becomes 100% ineffective. i believe that is exactly what is happening in buffalo and speaks volumes as to how bad a coach lindy is.

[Rox11]

The thought that I continue to go back to : when the Sabres went 19-5-5, the 'core' was all there and LR was behind the bench. I find it hard to find a corelation between Ruff sucking and the 'core' bored with the coach.

[Patty16]

but if your boss rides you to do better and you do do better but the boss keeps riding you what are you to do? it gets old after awhile, and then you ask yourself, i picked it up, did better, like he wanted and he is still ragging on me. after that cycles through it becomes like white noise and the coach/boss becomes 100% ineffective. i believe that is exactly what is happening in buffalo and speaks volumes as to how bad a coach lindy is.

 

You just described many the all time best pro sports coaches.

 

Marv Levy was a players coach and couldnt win it all. Parcells, Bowman, Lombardi, Coughlin, Babcock (who picked lindy for olympics), Cowher are all huge dee-bags to play for and constantly rode their players hard.

Shows how awful they are.

[Peppy22]

I doubt that this is a coach problem. The team could just have quit on the season and Ruff would have been (mostlikely) out after this season.

 

Ruff was harsh on players. Actually he said what everyone of us was thinking. So he might have been harsh, but they deserved it and it worked at the end of the season. Ruff called out players cause he knows that they can be better and sometimes all you need is a kick in the ass. It's kinda funny that people criticize Ruff for being to hard on players but want Torts as a coach...

[Marvelo]

maybe Leopold wasn't an accident?

[bcsaberks]

If? He's universally respected as one of the top coaches in the league. No one with sort of hockey sense considers him anything else.

 

HOWEVER, your last sentence is really what the issue before team management is; the right coach right now?

Poorly written, agreed, he's clearly been very successful. I would expect that if let go he'd be snatched up by someone else quick, and be successful there as well.

[Ross Rhea]

You just described many the all time best pro sports coaches.

 

Marv Levy was a players coach and couldnt win it all. Parcells, Bowman, Lombardi, Coughlin, Babcock (who picked lindy for olympics), Cowher are all huge dee-bags to play for and constantly rode their players hard.

Shows how awful they are.

 

i'm not against riding or being hard on players to a certain point, but to me without a doubt ruff has taken it too far and it has shown on the ice over the past handful of years.

[dEnnis the Menace]

i'm not against riding or being hard on players to a certain point, but to me without a doubt ruff has taken it too far and it has shown on the ice over the past handful of years.

 

I don't think he's nearly as hard on his players as he could be, and frankly, with the lackluster play and coasting that some of these players commit, if I was a teammate of theirs, I'd want to see them lambasted!

[Ross Rhea]

I don't think he's nearly as hard on his players as he could be, and frankly, with the lackluster play and coasting that some of these players commit, if I was a teammate of theirs, I'd want to see them lambasted!

 

i don't know but maybe the lackluster play is because they have tuned ruff out. maybe their uninspired effort is a direct result of all the needless over the top negative lambasting they are receiving on a daily basis.

 

Someone was quoted as saying how nice it was on the bench with patrick there while lindy was up in the press box. hmmm... does make you wonder doesn't it?

[Patty16]

i'm not against riding or being hard on players to a certain point, but to me without a doubt ruff has taken it too far and it has shown on the ice over the past handful of years.

I don't think he's nearly as hard on his players as he could be, and frankly, with the lackluster play and coasting that some of these players commit, if I was a teammate of theirs, I'd want to see them lambasted!

 

Too far? Torts rides his players harder, screams more on the bench, and calls them out in the media regularly. His team just won the #1 seed in the East.

 

Coaching may be the issue here, but i think it has far far far more to do with X's and O's than whether Lindy hurts players feelings too often - this is simply overblown by the fan base/WGR types.

 

BTW, this board is like Jekyl and Hyde, we need to dump all these players because they suck, fire the coach too because he's mean to our sucky players!!! Or is it the other way around? ha

[dEnnis the Menace]

i don't know but maybe the lackluster play is because they have tuned ruff out. maybe their uninspired effort is a direct result of all the needless over the top negative lambasting they are receiving on a daily basis.

 

Someone was quoted as saying how nice it was on the bench with patrick there while lindy was up in the press box. hmmm... does make you wonder doesn't it?

 

I think that quote is out of context to the question that was asked, and I believe it was WGR that clipped the context of it from the start.

 

 

Too far? Torts rides his players harder, screams more on the bench, and calls them out in the media regularly. His team just won the #1 seed in the East.

 

Coaching may be the issue here, but i think it has far far far more to do with X's and O's than whether Lindy hurts players feelings too often - this is simply overblown by the fan base/WGR types.

 

BTW, this board is like Jekyl and Hyde, we need to dump all these players because they suck, fire the coach too because he's mean to our sucky players!!! Or is it the other way around? ha

 

agreed. On all accounts.

[JWell]

100th Post!!!

 

But hell no he is not to harsh on them. they need to harden up. if they dont like it, start winning!!!

[That Aud Smell]

Whither PA. :ph34r:

 

I think Hamilton missed the opportunity (or maybe knowingly passed on it) to conduct a more complicated and nuanced inquiry. The question is not whether Ruff is too hard on his players -- as others have noted, many if not all of the great coaches of today and days past can be and often are brutally hard on their players. The question is how that "hardness" is communicated, delivered and how it is tempered, offset with other sorts of feedback.

 

I have come to agree that there appears to be a weariness, a darkness, a tendency toward the negative that has infected Ruff's demeanor over the last several seasons. Some of that may just be a natural product of being in the same position, with the same players for as long as he has. Familiarity breeds contempt, or something like that. Some of it, I suspect, is also a function of how and who he is -- a bit of an Eeyore, who tends to hang in his Gloomy Place.

 

More than ever, I am in favor of a transfusion at the Coach and/or GM spot. But I don't sense even a chance of anything like happening unless/until the 2012-2013 campaign jumps the rails.

[Punch]

Too far? Torts rides his players harder, screams more on the bench, and calls them out in the media regularly. His team just won the #1 seed in the East.

 

Coaching may be the issue here, but i think it has far far far more to do with X's and O's than whether Lindy hurts players feelings too often - this is simply overblown by the fan base/WGR types.

 

BTW, this board is like Jekyl and Hyde, we need to dump all these players because they suck, fire the coach too because he's mean to our sucky players!!! Or is it the other way around? ha

I think that quote is out of context to the question that was asked, and I believe it was WGR that clipped the context of it from the start.

 

 

 

 

agreed. On all accounts.

 

It's certainly possible that it's time for Ruff to go--- it's been 15 years after all, and sometimes a change is needed for the sake of change. Tortarella is a n interesting example: his act grew thin with some players in Tampa Bay, even after winning the Cup. There have been plenty of grumblings in the media about the same thing happening from time to time with the Rangers--- but even after his most recent public outburst the discussion is still mostly centered around the Rangers holding the number 1 seed in the EC, not Torts' future in NY.

 

That's because--- and apologies to BlueCross--- Winning Changes Everything. Ultimately, the act only grows thin when the team suffers a collosal collapse and cannot recover. The past two seasons have been disappointing, but teams don't rebound the way the Sabres have in the 2nd half of each if they are no longer responding to the coach. Thomas Vanek arguably could not have produced more during the course of his career with A) no viable centerman or B) when battling through multiple injuries, regardless of the coach. If Lindy is too harsh on his players, I don't think it has demonstrably affected the team on the ice in a negative way.

 

Generally, the most successful coaches in the history of hockey have been demanding and abrasive. There may be reasons for Lindy Ruff to be replaced but this is not one of them.

 

Whither PA. :ph34r:

 

I think Hamilton missed the opportunity (or maybe knowingly passed on it) to conduct a more complicated and nuanced inquiry. The question is not whether Ruff is too hard on his players -- as others have noted, many if not all of the great coaches of today and days past can be and often are brutally hard on their players. The question is how that "hardness" is communicated, delivered and how it is tempered, offset with other sorts of feedback.

 

I have come to agree that there appears to be a weariness, a darkness, a tendency toward the negative that has infected Ruff's demeanor over the last several seasons. Some of that may just be a natural product of being in the same position, with the same players for as long as he has. Familiarity breeds contempt, or something like that. Some of it, I suspect, is also a function of how and who he is -- a bit of an Eeyore, who tends to hang in his Gloomy Place.

 

More than ever, I am in favor of a transfusion at the Coach and/or GM spot. But I don't sense even a chance of anything like happening unless/until the 2012-2013 campaign jumps the rails.

 

This is an excellent post. It's not so much the abrasiveness as it is the weariness of spending so much time in the room with the same message. I think Ruff can still be effective with the Sabres, but it's not a marriage--- they're not in it together for life. It depends on if the grumblings become amplified as the offseason goes on. I think there are positives/negatives to either moving on from Lindy or keeping him.