Who should the Sabres Draft in the first and second round?

[darksabre]

I'm sorry but Luongo over Miller is just silly.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I'm sorry but Luongo over Miller is just silly.

 

I agree. Miller is solid enough in the post season that he's worth keeping around imo.

[LastPommerFan]

If you look at the cup winners since the lockout, all of them averaged picking in the top 12 for at least 4 years just before winning the cup. From 2002 to 2007 pittsburgh pick 5 (whitney) 1 (fluery) 2 (Malkin) 1 (Crosby) 2 (Staal) 20 (Esposito, part of the trade for Hossa and Dupuis). That's ridiculous. The Hawks picked 3,7,3,1,11 from 2004 to 2008 after picking Seabrook at 14 in 2003.

 

So sucking bad for a good stretch pays dividends later. But there is one glaring exception, Detroit, who in the 6 years prior to their latest cup made the following first picks:

 

2002 58th overall Jiri Hudler

2003 64th overall Jimmy Howard

2004 97th overall Johann Franzen

2005 19th overall Jakub Kindl

2006 41st overall Cory Emmerton

2007 27th overall Brendan Smith

 

There are some great players on that list, but that is an average first pick of 51st overall, not even in the first half of the second round!

[Eleven]

If you look at the cup winners since the lockout, all of them averaged picking in the top 12 for at least 4 years just before winning the cup. From 2002 to 2007 pittsburgh pick 5 (whitney) 1 (fluery) 2 (Malkin) 1 (Crosby) 2 (Staal) 20 (Esposito, part of the trade for Hossa and Dupuis). That's ridiculous. The Hawks picked 3,7,3,1,11 from 2004 to 2008 after picking Seabrook at 14 in 2003.

 

So sucking bad for a good stretch pays dividends later. But there is one glaring exception, Detroit, who in the 6 years prior to their latest cup made the following first picks:

 

2002 58th overall Jiri Hudler

2003 64th overall Jimmy Howard

2004 97th overall Johann Franzen

2005 19th overall Jakub Kindl

2006 41st overall Cory Emmerton

2007 27th overall Brendan Smith

 

There are some great players on that list, but that is an average first pick of 51st overall, not even in the first half of the second round!

 

They must not have relied upon video scouting.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm sorry but Luongo over Miller is just silly.

 

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

[spndnchz]

[dEnnis the Menace]

 

:w00t:

[apuszczalowski]

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

Basically you could have summed all this up mcuh easier "The Grass is always greener on the other side, Anything has to be better then what we have now"

 

I always love the arguement that "Buffalo can take player-X and just dump the money in the minors or eat it cause TP has the money to do it". Yeah, he has the money, but he also isn't an idiot who wants to throw it away and waste it. I really doubt he is looking to help other teams in the league by eating their bad contracts for them, just because he did it for a couple of contracts he was saddled with when he took over the team and Ales Kotaliks (and that was mostly because of what he was supposed to be getting in return and what they were asking him to give up)

 

Give your head a shake, or Bravo if this was your entry into the "Dumbest things ever said" contest

 

 

The last spot on this team that needs a shake up or change is the goaltending position..........................

[darksabre]

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

 

Luongo is at best Maple Leaf material. He's been nothing but a choke artist for his entire career. Just because you saw him play in Florida as fresh face in the league doesn't mean he's any better off now.

 

I was once described by another goalie who didn't know me as a "washed up hack". Considering I'd only been playing for just over a year at that point, the joke was on him.

 

Luongo on the other hand? The joke is on you if you think he isn't a washed up hack.

 

I'll be shocked if he hasn't played himself out of the league in the next two years.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

 

I like it, but ...

 

It would take balls, which I can see you have, but I am almost as sure DR doesn't have.

[TrueBlueGED]

I honestly think Vancouver is going to have a hard time moving Luongo, and if they do, they're going to trade him for 75 cents on the dollar at best. His cap hit of $5.3 isn't exorbitant, but the length most certainly is. He's under contract for 10 more years, at which point he'll be 43. And while it's easy to say a team can just get rid of his contract later through a buyout or waiving to the AHL....we have no idea if any of this is going to change with the new CBA (or the subsequent new CBA if this one lasts less than 10 years). That's a LOT of uncertainty to attach yourself to, particularly if you're giving up good assets to acquire it.

[LGR4GM]

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

I wouldn't trade a 7th round pick for Roberto "chokesunderpressurelikeachump" Luongo. Did you watch the playoffs last year? Did you see his collapse? He was pulled during this years playoffs for Schnieder. Guy sucks. His numbers are better because he has been playing behind 2 sedins and up until this past season a very solid defense core. Its not a improvement in goaltender. You say yourself that "Vancouver solves the goalie issue." soooo you admit Luongo is an issue. Not only would this never happen I can honestly say that if the Sabres made the trade you just proposed I would no longer be a fan of the team. Only a complete idiot would trade for 33yr old goalie who is signed for another decade. Finally I just ran their sv% and its even over the last 3 years... 0.920 sv% for Both so NO this trade is bad on a level that I can not even explain.

 

its like cutting off your arms so you can get a boob job.

[JJFIVEOH]

You can all compare stats, size, performance under pressure......... but one thing nobody has talked about is Miller's attitude. It flat out sucks! I'm not going to pretend I know what goes on in the locker room, but he is a prima donna. He cries when he doesn't get his way, he never looks like he's enjoying himself and he constantly criticizes his teammates and none of his teammates have the nads to criticize him when he deserves it. To Miller, it's always somebody elses fault. If you want to look at the core and who the problem is, look for the cancer. The front office seems to think Miller is Superman, stop treating him like he's gods gift to hockey and treat him like everybody else...... or get him out and bring in some quality players to suport Enroth while Miller is still worth something (kind of).

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I like it, but ...

 

It would take balls, which I can see you have, but I am almost as sure DR doesn't have.

 

Hence the last line....

 

Trying to look positive at it all........maybe I should take solace in my correct outlook for the entire MM millenium???

 

Luongo is at best Maple Leaf material.

 

Yes he is.....and I shall remember this exchange.....and revisit it come April 2013!

 

Basically you could have summed all this up mcuh easier "The Grass is always greener on the other side, Anything has to be better then what we have now"

 

Please tell me what grass survives with water in only 13 days over the past 5 years?

 

(Hint...that's how many playoff games the Sabres landscapers have participated in.)

 

I wouldn't trade a 7th round pick for Roberto "chokesunderpressurelikeachump" Luongo. Did you watch the playoffs last year? Did you see his collapse? He was pulled during this years playoffs for Schnieder. Guy sucks. His numbers are better because he has been playing behind 2 sedins and up until this past season a very solid defense core. Its not a improvement in goaltender. You say yourself that "Vancouver solves the goalie issue." soooo you admit Luongo is an issue. Not only would this never happen I can honestly say that if the Sabres made the trade you just proposed I would no longer be a fan of the team. Only a complete idiot would trade for 33yr old goalie who is signed for another decade. Finally I just ran their sv% and its even over the last 3 years... 0.920 sv% for Both so NO this trade is bad on a level that I can not even explain.

 

its like cutting off your arms so you can get a boob job.

 

He was pulled during the 2011 playoffs.....and returned.....and came within a goal of winning the Stanley Cup

 

You can all compare stats, size, performance under pressure......... but one thing nobody has talked about is Miller's attitude. It flat out sucks! I'm not going to pretend I know what goes on in the locker room, but he is a prima donna. He cries when he doesn't get his way, he never looks like he's enjoying himself and he constantly criticizes his teammates and none of his teammates have the nads to criticize him when he deserves it. To Miller, it's always somebody elses fault. If you want to look at the core and who the problem is, look for the cancer. The front office seems to think Miller is Superman, stop treating him like he's gods gift to hockey and treat him like everybody else...... or get him out and bring in some quality players to suport Enroth while Miller is still worth something (kind of).

 

YES!

 

Miller is a GREAT human being.....I really think he is as good a kid as it comes off the ice. However if we ain't changin Darcy and Lindy...you need to blow this core to kingdom-come

[LGR4GM]

Hence the last line....

 

Trying to look positive at it all........maybe I should take solace in my correct outlook for the entire MM millenium???

 

 

 

Yes he is.....and I shall remember this exchange.....and revisit it come April 2013!

Remember this then, Luongo is a choke artist of epic proportions. He has proven that time and time again.

[JJFIVEOH]

I really don't understand what would make someone say that. I watched Luongo in Miami in person and have watched Miller in person and trust Luongo more. In the past 6 seasons, Luongo's worst year is Miller's average year.

 

You need to shake up this culture. I rarely make trade proposals, but here is a 3 way diddy that would work.

 

Buffalo gets: Luongo, Kesler, #2 pick

 

Vancouver gets: Nash, Roy, Stafford

 

Columbus gets: Miller, Raymond, Sekera, #12, #21, #26 from Van

 

Now I know that's a biggie, but:

 

Vancouver solves the goalie issue, and gives up some grit at center in order to get a star in Nash to play with the Sedins.........

 

Columbus hedges on the #2 pick and spreads it with bodies in the 1st while getting a top 1/3 goalie and 2 plug and play players who aren't over the hill.

 

Buffalo gets a slight improve at goalie and can take on his future contract, gets a two-way #2 center with grit, and makes a splash for a chance to draft a bonafide #1 center with the 2nd pick.

 

 

In reality....Nash and Luongo probably will get dealt to the Sabres direct competitors.

 

II watched Luongo play here in SoFL too. As much as I criticize Miller, there is no way in hell I would take Luongo over Miller. No way........... Loungo takes every third game off and when he sucks, he sucks a lot (remember when he got pulled against BFLO?) Unless a coach is willing to pull him early enough to stand a chance of winning when he looks like he's taking a night off, your team stands no chance of winning. At least Miller is a tad more consistent. And when Miller gets into a funk you know he'll be on one for a month or two and can plan around it.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

Oh Sweet Chz'r...........while 75% of the world would post the same thing, thinking there is no way those players could be acquired for so little.........you stand true.

 

I admire that......you need to bleed for something in this world.

[spndnchz]

 

 

Oh Sweet Chz'r...........while 75% of the world would post the same thing, thinking there is no way those players could be acquired for so little.........you stand true.

 

I admire that......you need to bleed for something in this world.

You want to give Miller, Roy, Stafford, Sekera and two number one picks for Luongo and Kesler.

 

U r high.

[qwksndmonster]

I like it, but ...

 

It would take balls, which I can see you have, but I am almost as sure DR doesn't have.

Posting trade proposals on an internet message board takes balls. :lol:

 

Luongo pretty much single handedly lost the cup for Vancouver last year. He crapped the bed in 4 out of 7 games in the finals. 21 goals were allowed in those four games. Only one of them was an empty netter.

 

You want to give Miller, Roy, Stafford, Sekera and two number one picks for Luongo and Kesler.

 

U r high.

I think the #2 pick is the most jarring part.

[drnkirishone]

You want to give Miller, Roy, Stafford, Sekera and two number one picks for Luongo and Kesler.

 

U r high.

I see the problem Chz...... your not factoring in that thous 4 players play for buffalo and there for have limited trade value and the picks belong to buffalo so by extension they suck too

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You want to give Miller, Roy, Stafford, Sekera and two number one picks for Luongo and Kesler.

 

U r high.

 

Momma always said......."Cuddle what you know.....try to help them grow.....if they let you down.....smile, do not frown."

[LGR4GM]

You want to give Miller, Roy, Stafford, Sekera and two number one picks for Luongo and Kesler.

 

U r high.

That trade looks really horrendous when you parce it out like that... its just a bad trade for the Sabres. Anything that gets you Luongo is bad... really bad.

[Randall Flagg]

I'd take that trade.

 

It would at best work out great and show that our gm isn't afraid to make deals, and at worst, give us last year with different names.

(and maybe future trouble with Luongo's contract, but that's what the leafs are for)

 

A trade that draws this type of reaction is exactly what we need this summer IMO.

[spndnchz]

 

 

Momma always said......."Cuddle what you know.....try to help them grow.....if they let you down.....smile, do not frown."

 

Grow? My 5 year old niece wouldn't make that move even if she had a full diaper that needed changing.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That trade looks really horrendous when you parce it out like that... its just a bad trade for the Sabres. Anything that gets you Luongo is bad... really bad.

 

Don't worry...I was trying to be positive and suspend reality.

 

Reality is, Luongo will be with the Leafs....and the Sabres will sign Ennis to a $3MM plus contract to be their top center with Roy and Hodgson.....and Miller will be Miller.

 

I'd take that trade.

 

It would at best work out great and show that our gm isn't afraid to make deals, and at worst, give us last year with different names.

(and maybe future trouble with Luongo's contract, but that's what the leafs are for)

 

A trade that draws this type of reaction is exactly what we need this summer IMO.

 

Thanks..that's how I look at it....

 

Grow? My 5 year old niece wouldn't make that move even of she had a full diaper that needed changing.

 

Oooooh......so you have a sister?.......... :devil: