Game Discussion Thread GDT - Buffalo @ Philadelphia - 4/5/2012 - 7:00pm

[darksabre]

But it won't happen with Ruff as coach.

 

Good, then I hope it never happens. I know you want Ruff gone. I don't care if he stays or goes. But if Vanek is going to be successful, it better be here.

[Derrico]

Good, then I hope it never happens. I know you want Ruff gone. I don't care if he stays or goes. But if Vanek is going to be successful, it better be here.

 

Even if that means we miss out on the talents of one of those kids?

[Marvelo]

You put your finger on exactly what I was trying to say - what IS the Sabres' personality...and legacy? And why can't the Sabres be the team everyone hates to play? After having sand kicked in our faces for YEARS, when does this team bulk up and begin kicking some sand of its own?

 

They did kick some sand during the Mucker Era, but now it's the Darcy Era. (aka the 98 lb. weakling era) I think as a GM Muckler got Buffalo. When he brought in Mike Peca, he sold him by saying that Peca is a type of player, hard-working, hard-hitting, that Buffalo could relate to.

[darksabre]

Even if that means we miss out on the talents of one of those kids?

 

That's not the point. In his argument there are no talented kids because Ruff will ruin them.

[Sabre Dance]

They did kick some sand during the Mucker Era, but now it's the Darcy Era. (aka the 98 lb. weakling era) I think as a GM Muckler got Buffalo. When he brought in Mike Peca, he sold him by saying that Peca is a type of player, hard-working, hard-hitting, that Buffalo could relate to.

 

Yep, that "Hardest working team in hockey" did go over well, and the team did play well above their talent level. I'm hoping that Marcus Foligno takes that Mike Peca role and pulls the rest of his teammates along....whoever they may be. :rolleyes:

[shrader]

Yep, that "Hardest working team in hockey" did go over well, and the team did play well above their talent level. I'm hoping that Marcus Foligno takes that Mike Peca role and pulls the rest of his teammates along....whoever they may be. :rolleyes:

 

The hardest working team in hockey? What's lost in the shuffle thanks to that marketing label was that so called "hardest working team in hockey" sucked. They were the 7th worst in the league and our reward for finishing that low was Eric Rasmussen.

[TrueBlueGED]

The hardest working team in hockey? What's lost in the shuffle thanks to that marketing label was that so called "hardest working team in hockey" sucked. They were the 7th worst in the league and our reward for finishing that low was Eric Rasmussen.

 

THANK YOU! Half the time I get the impression some Sabres fans would be happy with a lineup consistent of Matt Ellis, Matt Ellis, and more Matt Ellis.

[JJFIVEOH]

THANK YOU! Half the time I get the impression some Sabres fans would be happy with a lineup consistent of Matt Ellis, Matt Ellis, and more Matt Ellis.

 

I wouldn't go that far, lol. But I would bet this team would be much more successful if a lot of players had half the heart Ellis does.

[deluca67]

How would you feel about moving Vanek at the draft to grab a top 3 pick?

If you want to move Vanek for a top three pick the only partner that makes sense are the Oilers. They have the cap space to take on Vanek's cap hit. They could pretty much trade out Ryan Smith (pending UFA) for Vanek cap wise. The Oilers are loaded with prime young talent and are in need of a established NHL scorer. They can afford to give up the prime pick and not hurt their rebuilding. I think Vanek for the #2 pick and maybe a 3rd or 4th.

 

It should be an easy deal to make. It's also a difficult deal to explain to fans.

 

The hardest working team in hockey? What's lost in the shuffle thanks to that marketing label was that so called "hardest working team in hockey" sucked. They were the 7th worst in the league and our reward for finishing that low was Eric Rasmussen.

Didn't they win the Division?

[Punch]

Didn't they win the Division?

 

Wasn't the "hardest working team in hockey" the last year in the Aud? They won the Northeast the next year in the new Arena.

[deluca67]

Wasn't the "hardest working team in hockey" the last year in the Aud? They won the Northeast the next year in the new Arena.

It was the same team? Wasn't it?

[Punch]

 

It was the same team? Wasn't it?

 

Well, yes and no. They were marketed that way just that last season in the Aud and they were a total mess. It was Hasek's statistically worst season by a longshot. They may have won the Northeast the first year in the Arena but they only had 92 points, which was still 19 points better than the previous year.

[Robviously]

Wasn't the "hardest working team in hockey" the last year in the Aud? They won the Northeast the next year in the new Arena.

It was the first year in the "Marine Midland Arena." There was a section of the crowd with red hardhats (i.e. it was when we'd adopted the red and black uniforms).

[Punch]

 

It was the first year in the "Marine Midland Arena." There was a section of the crowd with red hardhats (i.e. it was when we'd adopted the red and black uniforms).

 

Hmmmm. That's right, I do remember the hard hats but I wasn't sure if that was just fan carryover. The seasons are starting to blur together.

[TrueBlueGED]

It was the first year in the "Marine Midland Arena." There was a section of the crowd with red hardhats (i.e. it was when we'd adopted the red and black uniforms).

Hmmmm. That's right, I do remember the hard hats but I wasn't sure if that was just fan carryover. The seasons are starting to blur together.

 

I thought I remembered the hard hats in the Aud too, they were just yellow (obviously) back then. Even if the hardest working team moniker was started the 1st year in the Arena....that team still was terrible, they just had one of the greatest goaltenders of all time playing out of his skull. It was nice that they worked hard and all, but they had a serious talent deficiency. They were like Florida this year, except subtract some forward talent and stuff it into a goaltender.

[Punch]

 

 

I thought I remembered the hard hats in the Aud too, they were just yellow (obviously) back then. Even if the hardest working team moniker was started the 1st year in the Arena....that team still was terrible, they just had one of the greatest goaltenders of all time playing out of his skull. It was nice that they worked hard and all, but they had a serious talent deficiency. They were like Florida this year, except subtract some forward talent and stuff it into a goaltender.

 

Peca and Zhitnik really came into their own that year, but much of that team was made up of young role players. Aside from Peca and Satan the forward group was very much of the bottom 6 variety. I'd take Curtis Brown on our 3rd line today, though, in a heartbeat.

[JJFIVEOH]

FTR, the Penguins have 21 round wins sine '67 and the Sabres have 22 round wins since '70. Not quite sure that qualifies Pittsburgh to be used in the same conversation as Philly and Detroit.

 

I can't believe people are even having the discussion of getting rid of Vanek. OK, I do, everybody has their opinion just like I do, haha. But he has been one of the hardest workers on this team since he got here. More often than not when he goes into a slump it has been revealed that he was injured. He fights through injuries, he rarely misses long stretches of games and him and P-ville pretty much singlehandedly carried this team during the early suck stage (post game 16). His salary might be a little inflated based on his numbers but if the team needs to trim cap space for next year there are plenty of other players worthy of dumping. If this team could actually have a quality 2nd and 3rd line for next year to take the heat off him I know it could open up the opposing defense and his numbers would improve.

[Kristian]

How would you feel about moving Vanek at the draft to grab a top 3 pick?

 

While the draft is a crap shoot, Thomas Vanek at a 7 mill. cap hit, just isn't a good business decision.

 

I like Vanek, and I don't think we've seen what he can do with a proper center and a coach who believes in him a little more, but at 7 mill., 5 years into his contract? He's a bad business decision on a team that could end up strapped for cap space.

 

Right or wrong, guys with that pricetag simply cannot disappear for stretches as long as Vanek does. Not even Alexei Yashin disappeared like this until the playoffs came along.

[Marvelo]

While the draft is a crap shoot, Thomas Vanek at a 7 mill. cap hit, just isn't a good business decision.

 

I like Vanek, and I don't think we've seen what he can do with a proper center and a coach who believes in him a little more, but at 7 mill., 5 years into his contract? He's a bad business decision on a team that could end up strapped for cap space.

 

Right or wrong, guys with that pricetag simply cannot disappear for stretches as long as Vanek does. Not even Alexei Yashin disappeared like this until the playoffs came along.

 

Not sure what's wrong with Vanek. My suspicion is that he's too weak physically and fragile mentally to deal with the 82 game schedule...His relationship with Ruff has been terrible since day 1. I agree, you can't keep a $7 million passenger like Vanek around anymore.

[deluca67]

While the draft is a crap shoot, Thomas Vanek at a 7 mill. cap hit, just isn't a good business decision.

 

I like Vanek, and I don't think we've seen what he can do with a proper center and a coach who believes in him a little more, but at 7 mill., 5 years into his contract? He's a bad business decision on a team that could end up strapped for cap space.

 

Right or wrong, guys with that pricetag simply cannot disappear for stretches as long as Vanek does. Not even Alexei Yashin disappeared like this until the playoffs came along.

That's a big reason why you consider moving Vanek.

 

I like Vanek as a player, he is easily the most talented hockey player the Sabres have on the roster, IMO, there isn't even a close second. With too many opportunities for Vanek to step up and take control of hockey games that passed buy I really hope the Sabres consider moving Vanek. Vanek is being paid to be a big time player that should be coming up in big time spots. Vanek is 28 yrs old and is completing his 7th NHL season. We shouldn't be here talking about consistency in effort and performance.

[Kristian]

FTR, the Penguins have 21 round wins sine '67 and the Sabres have 22 round wins since '70. Not quite sure that qualifies Pittsburgh to be used in the same conversation as Philly and Detroit.

 

I can't believe people are even having the discussion of getting rid of Vanek. OK, I do, everybody has their opinion just like I do, haha. But he has been one of the hardest workers on this team since he got here. More often than not when he goes into a slump it has been revealed that he was injured. He fights through injuries, he rarely misses long stretches of games and him and P-ville pretty much singlehandedly carried this team during the early suck stage (post game 16). His salary might be a little inflated based on his numbers but if the team needs to trim cap space for next year there are plenty of other players worthy of dumping. If this team could actually have a quality 2nd and 3rd line for next year to take the heat off him I know it could open up the opposing defense and his numbers would improve.

 

No argument there.

 

Also, if the coach could find a way for him NOT to get crosschecked in the back for 2 minutes on every PP, maybe he wouldn't have to play through injuries that might or might nor be bothering him?

[Ross Rhea]

I think once the season ends and we find out what has been ailing Vanek, a lot of you will change your stance on wanting to get rid of him.

[Robviously]

That's a big reason why you consider moving Vanek.

 

I like Vanek as a player, he is easily the most talented hockey player the Sabres have on the roster, IMO, there isn't even a close second. With too many opportunities for Vanek to step up and take control of hockey games that passed buy I really hope the Sabres consider moving Vanek. Vanek is being paid to be a big time player that should be coming up in big time spots. Vanek is 28 yrs old and is completing his 7th NHL season. We shouldn't be here talking about consistency in effort and performance.

1. No one should be questioning his effort. Find one other player on this team wiling to stand in front of the net and take a pounding all game long, all season long.

 

2. He's playing hurt. Because of Point #1. But he keeps at it, so I'm wondering why his effort must be so terrible.

 

3. Vanek is overpaid but that really only matters for the salary cap. And since the free agent market is usually pretty bad, I wouldn't deal Vanek just to free up cap space.

 

4. Being paid "big time" money doesn't make you any more capable of being a "big time" player. If you double a guy's salary, he's not going to play twice as well. If you cut his pay in half, he's not going to be half the player. So Vanek signed a contract that he can't live up to. Oh well. I guess we'll have to live with having a player who is "very good" instead of "elite." It's not the worst problem in the world.

 

5. At this point last year, most Sabres fans thought Pominville was overpaid and useless.

[Kristian]

1. No one should be questioning his effort. Find one other player on this team wiling to stand in front of the net and take a pounding all game long, all season long.

 

2. He's playing hurt. Because of Point #1. But he keeps at it, so I'm wondering why his effort must be so terrible.

 

3. Vanek is overpaid but that really only matters for the salary cap. And since the free agent market is usually pretty bad, I wouldn't deal Vanek just to free up cap space.

 

4. Being paid "big time" money doesn't make you any more capable of being a "big time" player. If you double a guy's salary, he's not going to play twice as well. If you cut his pay in half, he's not going to be half the player. So Vanek signed a contract that he can't live up to. Oh well. I guess we'll have to live with having a player who is "very good" instead of "elite." It's not the worst problem in the world.

 

5. At this point last year, most Sabres fans thought Pominville was overpaid and useless.

 

Just another reason he shouldn't be standing there.

 

Vanek's good in front of the net, but he is not a Dave Andreychuk or John LeClair in his prime.

 

He can do so much more than just take a beating in the crease. It's ridiculous that he's beeing used a power forward.

[Robviously]

Just another reason he shouldn't be standing there.

 

Vanek's good in front of the net, but he is not a Dave Andreychuk or John LeClair in his prime.

 

He can do so much more than just take a beating in the crease. It's ridiculous that he's beeing used a power forward.

Agreed, but we don't have anyone else. At one point we had notions of having Paul Gaustad stand in front of the net but it later turned out he was awful at hockey.

 

Vanek's chemistry with Adam early in the season came from the fact that Adam could go in front of the net, leaving Vanek to maneuver.