It's not over.

[Punch]

 

The point is that having a high payroll takes away one of the biggest excuses Regier apologists have used. High payroll and Regier still can't get the job done. It's time to get someone in that position that will produce positive results not excuses.

 

 

Maybe because he has proved he can win a Stanley Cup, unlike Ruff.

 

 

This here is the posting equivalent to a loser point.

 

Regarding the highest payroll--- there's still a lot of dead weight that needs to be trimmed accounting for a lot of those cap numbers. Hecht, Roy, Stafford, Boyes, etc. It is on Darcy for structuring those contracts, some of which were due to the Golisano era and some to Pegula's deep pockets--- I wanted Darcy gone when Pegula took over and was irked when he was given a vote of confidence. But, it'll take more than one season to overhaul the roster and culture surrounding the franchise. If that dead weight is not moved or allowed to leave via FA, then I'll have major problems not only with the roster but the man responsible for building it heading into next season.

 

As far as Ruff--- and I'm by no means an apologist for him--- if he had a few cracks at a Cup with the roster Tortorella had in TB and couldn't win then there's an argument. Several of those players are still among the best players in the league 8 years later. The best roster Ruff has ever had was on 2005-06, and even that group had issues. I hate to give Lindy a pass, but he's never had a roster good enough to win it all. If the right tweak (MAJOR tweaks) are made this offseason and Ruff still can't get it done, well...

[nucci]

Regarding the highest payroll--- there's still a lot of dead weight that needs to be trimmed accounting for a lot of those cap numbers. Hecht, Roy, Stafford, Boyes, etc. It is on Darcy for structuring those contracts, some of which were due to the Golisano era and some to Pegula's deep pockets--- I wanted Darcy gone when Pegula took over and was irked when he was given a vote of confidence. But, it'll take more than one season to overhaul the roster and culture surrounding the franchise. If that dead weight is not moved or allowed to leave via FA, then I'll have major problems not only with the roster but the man responsible for building it heading into next season.

 

As far as Ruff--- and I'm by no means an apologist for him--- if he had a few cracks at a Cup with the roster Tortorella had in TB and couldn't win then there's an argument. Several of those players are still among the best players in the league 8 years later. The best roster Ruff has ever had was on 2005-06, and even that group had issues. I hate to give Lindy a pass, but he's never had a roster good enough to win it all. If the right tweak (MAJOR tweaks) are made this offseason and Ruff still can't get it done, well...

There is no way of knowing this. Sabres have been in a Cup Final and Conference Finals...Plus one year they had the best record in the league so the roster question is very debatable.

[Punch]

 

There is no way of knowing this. Sabres have been in a Cup Final and Conference Finals...Plus one year they had the best record in the league so the roster question is very debatable.

 

The President's Trophy season, as talented as it was, was not big, tough or physical enough to go the distance against teams like Ottawa, Anaheim or a few Western Conference teams. The same can be said for the previous year's team. Ultimately, losing 4 of our 6 defenseman that year is due in large part to not having the physicality to stack up against a tougher, nastier team like Carolina.

 

You're right, there's no way to really know for sure, but that's an argument for the existentialists. Stack up the Sabres rosters to the Cup winners over the years, and you'd be hard pressed to suggest any of them were remotely good enough. Any team can get hot and stay healthy in the playoffs and make a run (Edmonton was arguably a Roloson injury away from winning it in 05-06), but thats extremely rare and most Cup winning teams have a handful of elite players. Aside from Hasek, who has truly been an elite player for this franchise in that timespan? I've always felt that if Peca didn't sit out the 2000-01 season, that team could have won it all. He may have been the missing piece.

[darksabre]

 

Do you have a poster of Lindy on the ceiling over your bed?

 

Come on man, really?

[SwampD]

Come on man, really?

Yes. Eleven, in his defense of Ruff lately, is dangerously approaching the realm of fanboi. He can use all the logical and scientific examples he wants to to make his argument, but in the end his feelings for Ruff are purely emotional and irrational,.. he likes him and wants him to stay, period. That's fine. I disagree, but whatever.

 

Like it or not, Ruff is the exception. No other coach on any other team would have been afforded the luxury of longevity that he has with his lack of success (I know, a subjective term). It gets just as annoying hearing how great he is as it does hearing how much he sucks.

 

I think he's a good coach, not great, but good. There are plenty of good coaches. I'm just sick of his brand of hockey and am ready for something new (after 15 years I think I have that right).

 

Take away from this whatever you want the fact that we're having conversation in the first week of April, yet again.

[Jsixspd]

Unacceptable. I think most agree that it should cost LR and/or DR their jobs. Except Pegula / Black have told us it won't. So there you have it. All we can do is hope that tweaks to the roster that are accomplished this offseason serve to wake this friggin team up.

 

How many years are they gonna let those guys go on in their jobs? There is a reason, other, more successful NHL franchises change their GM and coaching staffs. Those guys are setting a record for longevity - that is not a positive, especially when the team has never won a championship.

 

Let's say, theoretically, Ruff and Regier were let go this year.... what other teams would hire them? I know with the Buffalo Bills - their cast-offs of head coaches and QBs never seem able to land another job in the league in the same position. Would similar happen to Ruff & Regier or do they come up roses?

[darksabre]

 

Yes. Eleven, in his defense of Ruff lately, is dangerously approaching the realm of fanboi. He can use all the logical and scientific examples he wants to to make his argument, but in the end his feelings for Ruff are purely emotional and irrational,.. he likes him and wants him to stay, period. That's fine. I disagree, but whatever.

 

Like it or not, Ruff is the exception. No other coach on any other team would have been afforded the luxury of longevity that he has with his lack of success (I know, a subjective term). It gets just as annoying hearing how great he is as it does hearing how much he sucks.

 

I think he's a good coach, not great, but good. There are plenty of good coaches. I'm just sick of his brand of hockey and am ready for something new (after 15 years I think I have that right).

 

Take away from this whatever you want the fact that we're having conversation in the first week of April, yet again.

 

Because your dislike of Ruff isn't emotional as well?

 

And calling someone's well explained thoughts irrational is just dismissive. Just because you don't agree doesn't make him irrational.

[Huckleberry]

if its up to me, im willin to give regier and ruff another two years, but im drunk and sentimental right now :blush:

[darksabre]

if its up to me, im willin to give regier and ruff another two years, but im drunk and sentimental right now :blush:

 

I think that's a realistic timeframe for what Pegula is going to give them as well. One year down, two to go. Anyone calling for them to be gone anytime before December is not going to get their wish so they might as well just deal with it, preferably in a manner that I don't have to witness.

 

Oddly enough, Darcy and Lindy could be making their exit around the same time as Miller, which almost seems appropriate.

[Kristian]

I think that's a realistic timeframe for what Pegula is going to give them as well. One year down, two to go. Anyone calling for them to be gone anytime before December is not going to get their wish so they might as well just deal with it, preferably in a manner that I don't have to witness.

 

Oddly enough, Darcy and Lindy could be making their exit around the same time as Miller, which almost seems appropriate.

 

Sorry, but telling people what they can and cannot talk about is just not for you to decide.

 

As somone else said, I'm just as tired of people defending management as you are of peope who want to get rid of them. But this is a discussion forum, hence we discuss.

 

The door swings both ways if we want to debate. The reason the point has been beaten to death, is that nothing has changed besides ownership.

 

Management, the on-ice product and results are close to identical, hence the discussions remains equally the same.

 

We have different opinions, and we all voice them.

 

You might as well deal with it.

[deluca67]

Sorry, but telling people what they can and cannot talk about is just not for you to decide.

 

As somone else said, I'm just as tired of people defending management as you are of peope who want to get rid of them. But this is a discussion forum, hence we discuss.

 

The door swings both ways if we want to debate. The reason the point has been beaten to death, is that nothing has changed besides ownership.

 

Management, the on-ice product and results are close to identical, hence the discussions remains equally the same.

 

We have different opinions, and we all voice them.

 

You might as well deal with it.

Agree 100%!

 

Just because Regier and Ruff are not going anywhere doesn't mean they shouldn't and that it shouldn't be discussed.

 

Because your dislike of Ruff isn't emotional as well?

 

And calling someone's well explained thoughts irrational is just dismissive. Just because you don't agree doesn't make him irrational.

It's not "emotional", it's based on his 14 seasons as Sabres head coach. 4 playoff seasons in 10 years is inexcusable.

[SwampD]

Because your dislike of Ruff isn't emotional as well?

 

And calling someone's well explained thoughts irrational is just dismissive. Just because you don't agree doesn't make him irrational.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. Yet, this is what people have been saying to anyone posting that they want Ruff gone.

[Punch]

So many current threads are dominated by discussion of firing Ruff I wasn't sure where to post this, but Paul Hamilton had this to say on WGR just now:

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

on with @pham1717 who said he's hearing rumblings from players they are tired of Lindy/constant berating.

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

asked Paul abou whether pominville is right captain. said Lindy doesnt want strong captain. doesnt want to be challenged in the room

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

paul said maybe vanek's 2nd half slump was due to his relationship with Lindy souring. Paul said he doesnt think darcy/lindy will be fired

[Weave]

So many current threads are dominated by discussion of firing Ruff I wasn't sure where to post this, but Paul Hamilton had this to say on WGR just now:

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

on with @pham1717 who said he's hearing rumblings from players they are tired of Lindy/constant berating.

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

asked Paul abou whether pominville is right captain. said Lindy doesnt want strong captain. doesnt want to be challenged in the room

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

paul said maybe vanek's 2nd half slump was due to his relationship with Lindy souring. Paul said he doesnt think darcy/lindy will be fired

 

Well, that ought to fan the flames, eh?

[Patty16]

Well, that ought to fan the flames, eh?

 

Well if Paul said it we can take it to the bank :angel:

[Claude_Verret]

Well, that ought to fan the flames, eh?

 

Indeed it will, although to me if these rumblings have any merit it signals a significant roster shakeup potentially coming before LR getting the boot.

[Robviously]

So many current threads are dominated by discussion of firing Ruff I wasn't sure where to post this, but Paul Hamilton had this to say on WGR just now:

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

on with @pham1717 who said he's hearing rumblings from players they are tired of Lindy/constant berating.

One way to avoid the "constant berating" would be by not constantly playing horribly. Anyone whining about being berated after the way this season went should be sent packing.

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

asked Paul abou whether pominville is right captain. said Lindy doesnt want strong captain. doesnt want to be challenged in the room

This is the second time I'm hearing about Lindy's aversion to having a "strong captain." The first time was with Drury, who was apparently too "strong" for Lindy. Maybe Lindy can comment on how the team has done in the years since they last had a "strong captain." Would he say things have gone well?

 

This is like starting a company and then surrounding yourself with only mediocre people. The benefit is that you know you'll never be challenged. Of course, the drawback is that your company won't be all that successful.

 

Also, what does this mean for Tyler Myers, who the Sabres are clearly grooming to be the captain someday. Is he learning how to be a captain from a coach who doesn't think captains should be strong? How much is this going to screw up our young players? And if the captain isn't supposed to be strong, who is? We've had a mentally/emotionally fragile team for years. Maybe this is why.

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

paul said maybe vanek's 2nd half slump was due to his relationship with Lindy souring. Paul said he doesnt think darcy/lindy will be fired

Another feather in Lindy's cap, if true. He had two players scoring all the goals the first half of this season and managed to get one of them to stop. Terrific work, as always.

 

Well, that ought to fan the flames, eh?

Indeed it will, although to me if these rumblings have any merit it signals a significant roster shakeup potentially coming before LR getting the boot.

What it signals to me is that no roster shakeup could possibly fix what's wrong with this team. Again, if this is true.

[Claude_Verret]

What it signals to me is that no roster shakeup could possibly fix what's wrong with this team. Again, if this is true.

 

Agreed. But while I'm with you that a roster shakeup won't produce the desired result, anything short of a complete mutiny where players refuse to take the ice under Ruff he just isn't getting fired.

[SwampD]

[snip]

 

What it signals to me is that no roster shakeup could possibly fix what's wrong with this team. Again, if this is true.

 

Oh, no you di'n't.

 

 

howard ‏ @hsimon62

asked Paul abou whether pominville is right captain. said Lindy doesnt want strong captain. doesnt want to be challenged in the room

On so many levels, this has to enrage even the most ardent Lindy supporter. It just has to,.. right?

[TrueBlueGED]

Well, that ought to fan the flames, eh?

 

That was my first thought as well....and by first, I mean even before I started thinking how this information may move me off the fence on the coach, largely because I STILL don't think he gets fired so I try not to waste mental energy on it.

 

 

Indeed it will, although to me if these rumblings have any merit it signals a significant roster shakeup potentially coming before LR getting the boot.

 

Agreed. Right or wrong, I think that's the likely outcome.

 

 

One way to avoid the "constant berating" would be by not constantly playing horribly. Anyone whining about being berated after the way this season went should be sent packing.

 

 

This is the second time I'm hearing about Lindy's aversion to having a "strong captain." The first time was with Drury, who was apparently too "strong" for Lindy. Maybe Lindy can comment on how the team has done in the years since they last had a "strong captain." Would he say things have gone well?

 

This is like starting a company and then surrounding yourself with only mediocre people. The benefit is that you know you'll never be challenged. Of course, the drawback is that your company won't be all that successful.

 

Also, what does this mean for Tyler Myers, who the Sabres are clearly grooming to be the captain someday. Is he learning how to be a captain from a coach who doesn't think captains should be strong? How much is this going to screw up our young players? And if the captain isn't supposed to be strong, who is? We've had a mentally/emotionally fragile team for years. Maybe this is why.

 

 

Another feather in Lindy's cap, if true. He had two players scoring all the goals the first half of this season and managed to get one of them to stop. Terrific work, as always.

 

Completely agree on the 1st point....if you don't like getting yelled at for not doing your job, how about, you start actually doing your job?

 

Also completely agree on the 2nd point. All of the great teams have strong leadership from within the roster itself, it's pretty much a necessary condition for deep playoff runs.

 

On the 3rd point, I still don't think Vanek's terrible second half had anything to do with Ruff, simply because there's no obvious flashpoint moment to point to where it would be Ruff's fault. If you want to look at the "end of my rope" with the penalties....Vanek was already solidly in his slump by the time that took place. And frankly....when the team is winning and pushing crazy hard for a playoff spot, if my star player still can't get on board for his teammates (screw the coach at that point), then he's a star player I don't want.

[Patty16]

Oh, no you di'n't.

 

 

 

On so many levels, this has to enrage even the most ardent Lindy supporter. It just has to,.. right?

 

Im not an ardent Lindy supporter but it doesnt enrage me, especially when St. Paul was singing Pommers' praises a few weeks ago. He blurs opinion and reporting way too much.

[SwampD]

Im not an ardent Lindy supporter but it doesnt enrage me, especially when St. Paul was singing Pommers' praises a few weeks ago. He blurs opinion and reporting way too much.

I guess when I first read that, I just assumed that Lindy told Paul he didn't want a strong captain. If that's the case them I'm mad for many reasons. If that's just Paul's opinion, then I guess that's different, even though I agree with that opinion (I actually believe it goes beyond just the captain, I don't think he wants any strong personalities in the locker room).

[Patty16]

I guess when I first read that, I just assumed that Lindy told Paul he didn't want a strong captain. If that's the case them I'm mad for many reasons. If that's just Paul's opinion, then I guess that's different, even though I agree with that opinion (I actually believe it goes beyond just the captain, I don't think he wants any strong personalities in the locker room).

 

Can anyone shed light on this? Did Paul report this as Lindy (doubt it) or an anonymous player (his fav) as telling him?

 

Its really a silly thing anyway which is why i think it's Paul's opinion. Lindy picked a weak captain bc in doing so no one will challenge him? Because you have to be a captain to challenge the coach? utterly silly.

 

The players are sick of a coach's berating? wow no player outside of the sabres locker room would everrrrrr say that regarding their coach. cmon man.

This is the kind of "reporting" geared toward message boards and not any sort of real analysis. I know it keeps listeners fired up and listening but at the same time it does them a disservice.

[TrueBlueGED]

Can anyone shed light on this? Did Paul report this as Lindy (doubt it) or an anonymous player (his fav) as telling him?

 

Its really a silly thing anyway which is why i think it's Paul's opinion. Lindy picked a weak captain bc in doing so no one will challenge him? Because you have to be a captain to challenge the coach? utterly silly.

 

The players are sick of a coach's berating? wow no player outside of the sabres locker room would everrrrrr say that regarding their coach. cmon man.

This is the kind of "reporting" geared toward message boards and not any sort of real analysis. I know it keeps listeners fired up and listening but at the same time it does them a disservice.

 

It was anonymous players.

[Punch]

Can anyone shed light on this? Did Paul report this as Lindy (doubt it) or an anonymous player (his fav) as telling him?

 

Its really a silly thing anyway which is why i think it's Paul's opinion. Lindy picked a weak captain bc in doing so no one will challenge him? Because you have to be a captain to challenge the coach? utterly silly.

 

The players are sick of a coach's berating? wow no player outside of the sabres locker room would everrrrrr say that regarding their coach. cmon man.

This is the kind of "reporting" geared toward message boards and not any sort of real analysis. I know it keeps listeners fired up and listening but at the same time it does them a disservice.

 

Haven't had a chance to listen to the Audio Vault yet, just following comments from twitter--- Bill Hoppe and Adam Benigni just tweeted this:

 

Bill Hoppe ‏ @BillHoppeNHL

#Sabres Derek Roy basically said he doesn't like the public criticism from Lindy. #Buffalo

 

Adam Benigni ‏ @AdamBenigni

#Sabres Roy says Ruff should keep criticism "behind closed doors" as opposed to in media. http://twitpic.com/97rcvw