Game Discussion Thread GDT: Buffalo Sabres @ Winnipeg Jets 3/5/12 8:00PM

[nfreeman]

So how is it that Vanek got off to a great Oct-Dec without the benefit of this "great" center? Could Vanek become a 50 goal scorer playing with Thornton, Sedin or Getzlaf? Probably, but there is no reason to fall off the map in Jan & Feb without that luxury.

 

Good call.

 

Yet, you don't complain about Miller nearly as much. His GAA this year is 2.60, good enough for 26th best in the league. His career GAA is 2.57 so even if he was doing his career norm, that would be 24th best in the league.

 

Where is the insane outrage? He's being paid so much money!!!!1! <_<

 

So if two guys are playing well on an entire team of guys who aren't playing well, you scoff at that? Yes, Pominville and Vanek should apologize for not being able to drag the entire team to first place on their own.

 

I've posted numerous times that if Miller hadn't had a terrible half-season (much of which was probably due to the concussion, but whatever), the Sabres would probably be in the #4-#5 slot in the EC.

 

Thank you and another reason I don't blame the players but the managment that has assembled this group.

 

I have accepted how it's going down with this team this year however my biggest concern from this season remains that somehow management does not quite see it the same. DR and LR have been in place so long it's almost a classic the king has no cloths scenario. It really is disenfrachising me from my favorite team.

 

Didn't you sign the DeLuca armistice?

 

Really don't know where to begin with this. You guys spout the same crap after every loss for years. The same 'Miller sucks' and 'we need a rebuild' and 'Vanek sucks, Pom sucks'. You guys won't be happy until time is turned backwards 20 years.

 

Again: instead of blathering, do you have anything specific to say in response to the particular issues that I and others have raised about the team's deficiencies? Or do you think this is a good team?

 

And I only need to go back 6 years and have someone with a brain running things.

 

Nice work ignoring the top line completely, perfect example to answer your question about where your posts aren't logical sometimes.

 

In what sense do my repeated complaints about Roy, Vanek and Pommer "ignore the top line?"

 

What a great response. "Your posts aren't logical." "No, yours aren't."

[RazielSabre]

Good call.

 

 

 

I've posted numerous times that if Miller hadn't had a terrible half-season (much of which was probably due to the concussion, but whatever), the Sabres would probably be in the #4-#5 slot in the EC.

 

 

 

Didn't you sign the DeLuca armistice?

 

 

 

Again: instead of blathering, do you have anything specific to say in response to the particular issues that I and others have raised about the team's deficiencies? Or do you think this is a good team?

 

And I only need to go back 6 years and have someone with a brain running things.

 

 

 

In what sense do my repeated complaints about Roy, Vanek and Pommer "ignore the top line?"

 

What a great response. "Your posts aren't logical." "No, yours aren't."

Sorry, I meant the line about Vanek having more goals than Rene in a shorter time frame, not our top line.

 

I've made my opinion on the team clear, why don't you read the ###### post (you quoted from it!). I think this team has had an awful season and desperately lacks a steady veteran presence in the top 6 and really needs to get rid of Roy and Stafford, I'd also like to see Leopold go as his value is higher now than it will be for a while.

[apuszczalowski]

They're veterans now not rookies. There isn't much Lindy should have to be doing right now in regards to coaching those two other than managing rest. Vanek knows the game he needs to play, we have all seen him play it. If you want to criticize Ruff for last night, it might have been a good time to fit Enroth in. With 8th sitting there right in front of them I can why he didn't.

So in a big game where tehy can take over 8th place, you would sit the starting goalie who is coming off a road trip where he had 2 shutout wins and gave up 3 goals to the top team in the West (maybe even the league) in a win, and put in the backup who has played in one game in the month of February and his last game before that was a game almost a month before? yeah, that seems like the perfect game to give him a start in :rolleyes: :doh:

had they won last night, the game to start Enroth in would have been tomorrow against the 'Canes

 

Goaltending was not an issue in last nights game, and I would say you could count on one hand the number of goalies who may have been able to steal that game for the Sabres last night. The blame for last nights game is on the offence that couldn't score and the players that were coughing up the puck everytime they touched it. They couldn't get a pass completed to save their lives, and everytime you turned around the puck was either jumping over their sticks or being turned over to a Winnipeg player

[LastPommerFan]

Or do you think this is a good team?

 

I think this is a good team that had a bad night last night. The top line is struggling, for sure, but the rest of the lines are stepping up.

 

3-1-1 on a long distance road trip against the top 2 teams and 3 teams fighting to the death for playoff spots is a sign of a good team. They were low scoring defensive performances for the most part, which is exactly how you win road games, especially in the playoffs. I worry about how they respond to adversity, and I am very concerned about their depth given the struggles while some players were out with injuries, but this team is much better than everyone is giving them credit for.

[TheMadCap]

So in a big game where tehy can take over 8th place, you would sit the starting goalie who is coming off a road trip where he had 2 shutout wins and gave up 3 goals to the top team in the West (maybe even the league) in a win, and put in the backup who has played in one game in the month of February and his last game before that was a game almost a month before? yeah, that seems like the perfect game to give him a start in :rolleyes: :doh:

had they won last night, the game to start Enroth in would have been tomorrow against the 'Canes

 

Goaltending was not an issue in last nights game, and I would say you could count on one hand the number of goalies who may have been able to steal that game for the Sabres last night. The blame for last nights game is on the offence that couldn't score and the players that were coughing up the puck everytime they touched it. They couldn't get a pass completed to save their lives, and everytime you turned around the puck was either jumping over their sticks or being turned over to a Winnipeg player

 

Enroth should play tomorrow. The Canes own Miller...

[deluca67]

So in a big game where tehy can take over 8th place, you would sit the starting goalie who is coming off a road trip where he had 2 shutout wins and gave up 3 goals to the top team in the West (maybe even the league) in a win, and put in the backup who has played in one game in the month of February and his last game before that was a game almost a month before? yeah, that seems like the perfect game to give him a start in :rolleyes: :doh:

had they won last night, the game to start Enroth in would have been tomorrow against the 'Canes

 

Goaltending was not an issue in last nights game, and I would say you could count on one hand the number of goalies who may have been able to steal that game for the Sabres last night. The blame for last nights game is on the offence that couldn't score and the players that were coughing up the puck everytime they touched it. They couldn't get a pass completed to save their lives, and everytime you turned around the puck was either jumping over their sticks or being turned over to a Winnipeg player

It was also the fourth game in six nights, all on the road where Miller had just faced 117 shots in 3 games. That combined with the way the Jets play at home makes me think it wasn't the best decision. That said, I understand why Miller played. The problem is you now have to play Miller against Carolina.

[K-9]

I think this is a good team that had a bad night last night. The top line is struggling, for sure, but the rest of the lines are stepping up.

 

3-1-1 on a long distance road trip against the top 2 teams and 3 teams fighting to the death for playoff spots is a sign of a good team. They were low scoring defensive performances for the most part, which is exactly how you win road games, especially in the playoffs. I worry about how they respond to adversity, and I am very concerned about their depth given the struggles while some players were out with injuries, but this team is much better than everyone is giving them credit for.

 

Perspective. What an interesting concept.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[apuszczalowski]

Enroth should play tomorrow. The Canes own Miller...

He probably will, Its a good game for him to get the start in

[TheMadCap]

He probably will, Its a good game for him to get the start in

 

This is Lindy we're talking about here... :cry:

[K-9]

Enroth should play tomorrow. The Canes own Miller...

 

This is a great idea. Would give Miller an extra day to recoup. Especially since first home games after long road trips are often ugly affairs. I'm worried about tomorrow's game just for that fact alone.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[darksabre]

This is Lindy we're talking about here... :cry:

 

Yup. I don't doubt we'll see Miller tomorrow.

[I am Defecting]

Games that seem perfect for Enroth to start in, aren't the one's that I expect him to start in. First, Miller has to play mediocre for a stretch, then the press have to start asking questions about Enroth, then Coach has to wait another game, read the morning papers, and make the tough decision.

[apuszczalowski]

This is Lindy we're talking about here... :cry:

i don't have a problem with how he uses his goaltenders. In previous years he has never had a reliable backup to go to, so you have to use them in games that you can afford to possibly lose. This year he has one who is a bit more reliable, but right now Miller has been playing good and you want to stick with whos hot in the stretch to try and make the playoffs. Starting goals should be able to play 60-70 games a season.

[LTS]

Really don't know where to begin with this. You guys spout the same crap after every loss for years. The same 'Miller sucks' and 'we need a rebuild' and 'Vanek sucks, Pom sucks'. You guys won't be happy until time is turned backwards 20 years.

 

To be fair, posting the SAME problems year after year when the SAME problems persist really isn't a problem. It's posting different opinions year after year about the same problems that are a bigger concern. If you believe the players like Vanek, Pominville, and Miller are the problem then stick with it. I don't think they've done THAT much to change people's minds as the end result has not changed.

 

Top bolded: I've always liked your posts but I do call BS here, after the Drury/Briere fiasco Sabres fans would have lynched Regier. Check the season he got that contract from, 40 odd goals, 80 odd points if I remember right.

 

2nd Bolded: I don't know, but putting him with Leino might make more sense as Leino is a great puck carrier who can't finish. Does it? I would actually like to know what ya'll think on this.

 

You can call BS but the truth is, disregarding the fan's propensity to lynch management for anything, that Vanek is worth 4 first rounders and that almost ANY player is worth 4 first rounders. Especially given how inadequate the Oilers were (have been) over those 4 years. That's a lot of top round talent the Sabres would have now. I understand why the Sabres management matched the offer.

 

I think putting Vanek with Leino, Hodgson, or Ennis right now would improve his play... and they are all ready and available.

 

I think this is a good team that had a bad night last night. The top line is struggling, for sure, but the rest of the lines are stepping up.

 

3-1-1 on a long distance road trip against the top 2 teams and 3 teams fighting to the death for playoff spots is a sign of a good team. They were low scoring defensive performances for the most part, which is exactly how you win road games, especially in the playoffs. I worry about how they respond to adversity, and I am very concerned about their depth given the struggles while some players were out with injuries, but this team is much better than everyone is giving them credit for.

 

I think the Sabres are a team that when they are on they can compete with anyone. However, if they can't get on top of an opponent then they have no answer for the aggressive forecheck teams throw at them. Even in the Ducks, Sharks, and Canucks games the Sabres were holding on and if not for the play of Miller they would have lost. The Sabres, all year, have struggled at skating the puck out of the zone. Most of the time it is because they throw the puck around the boards and the opposition is on top of the forward before he can move. They are at their best when they begin skating the puck out of the zone (although last night there were signs of even messing that up!).

 

They had a very bad night last night, in a house that is one of the hardest to play in, against a team that had plenty of rest. That said... their game last night looked like many of the other losses this season. Constantly stuck in their zone, passes bouncing off sticks, turnovers, lack of offensive pressure... in short, looking completely lost on how to answer what the Jets were throwing at them. That concerns me because we've seen that team after 3 days rest, at home, against the worst team in the league....

 

My apologies to Waldo for this post.

[LastPommerFan]

I think the Sabres are a team that when they are on they can compete with anyone. However, if they can't get on top of an opponent then they have no answer for the aggressive forecheck teams throw at them. Even in the Ducks, Sharks, and Canucks games the Sabres were holding on and if not for the play of Miller they would have lost. The Sabres, all year, have struggled at skating the puck out of the zone. Most of the time it is because they throw the puck around the boards and the opposition is on top of the forward before he can move. They are at their best when they begin skating the puck out of the zone (although last night there were signs of even messing that up!).

 

They had a very bad night last night, in a house that is one of the hardest to play in, against a team that had plenty of rest. That said... their game last night looked like many of the other losses this season. Constantly stuck in their zone, passes bouncing off sticks, turnovers, lack of offensive pressure... in short, looking completely lost on how to answer what the Jets were throwing at them. That concerns me because we've seen that team after 3 days rest, at home, against the worst team in the league....

 

I agree that last night's game was reminiscent of the 11/12/11-1/23/12 team that did it's best to keep the Sabres out of the playoffs. I think that is exactly the point. From the Boston Incident to the Devils Game before the break, this team was playing like it had been on an extended road trip for 2 months. I don't think last night's play was terribly unexpected, it's the 2 months of it in the middle of the season that was bad. If they win 4 of their next 5 (win vs CAR, MTL, COL and at OTT, lose at BOS), they'll be in 8th place (WPG has a tough road stretch coming up), and Ottawa might be in shooting distance as well.

 

How about opening the playoffs against Boston?

[kishoph]

i don't have a problem with how he uses his goaltenders. In previous years he has never had a reliable backup to go to, so you have to use them in games that you can afford to possibly lose. This year he has one who is a bit more reliable, but right now Miller has been playing good and you want to stick with whos hot in the stretch to try and make the playoffs. Starting goals should be able to play 60-70 games a season.

 

You'll never have a reliable backup Goalie, if he only sees game action once a month or less.

[Peppy22]

Can't win em all. Peg was just more determined to win the game. However it was a good road trip and with 16 games left this thing is still not over.

 

I was disappointed with Vanek though. I really "hope" he is injured because he plays like that. His passing is off and his decision making is way to slow right now. Hope he finds a way to battle through it. Plus in his years since he entered the league he has not found a way to erase his biggest deficit. He has a sick shot and if he wants to shot a coin of the crossbar he can do it...but he needs the time for it. He needs time and space to get his shot away. If you put a guy on him he has a tough time to get away and still be dangerous. There have been times where I thought he found a way to get it done, but lately It's not working.

[LabattBlue]

 

3-1-1 on a long distance road trip against the top 2 teams and 3 teams fighting to the death for playoff spots is a sign of a good team. They were low scoring defensive performances for the most part, which is exactly how you win road games, especially in the playoffs.

IMO, the games against Anaheim and San Jose were ALL Miller, and I would not classify them as good defensive road games. 80+ shots and your goalie stopped all of them.

[R_Dudley]

Eh' hem! <_<

 

My bad forgot about the truce.

 

Only get real small spots to stop by too read and post but still not an excuse, My apologies to the board as all others have all stayed in armatice mode.

 

Still watching to see what players standout as ones to build around , last night I did not see many.

[I am Defecting]

I was disappointed with Vanek though. I really "hope" he is injured because he plays like that. His passing is off and his decision making is way to slow right now. Hope he finds a way to battle through it. Plus in his years since he entered the league he has not found a way to erase his biggest deficit. He has a sick shot and if he wants to shot a coin of the crossbar he can do it...but he needs the time for it. He needs time and space to get his shot away. If you put a guy on him he has a tough time to get away and still be dangerous. There have been times where I thought he found a way to get it done, but lately It's not working.

 

I'd like to see Leino with him again.

 

Roy should be able to run distraction for Vanek to get open, but Roy's been running down blind alleys, too often. I wonder if they communicate enough as a line.

 

Vanek goes into a shell, head swaying back and forth, muffling curses, a total shell. I think he needs someone to get in his face. Maybe not Leino. Pommers is a good influence on Vanek, for sure, but he's not going to snap him out of it.

 

Who would though? It would take some pretty high status dude to get in Vanek's face when he's swaying back and forth, muffling curses, like he does. If it's Leino, then wow!

[Guest]

This is just a general comment but, I wish Buffalo would come out with the same intensity Winnipeg did after 3-4 days off. It seems the Sabres always come out sluggish after a little break. I'm sure the crowd going nuts from the puck drop fires the Jets guys up.

 

The F'N C should be loud and give the team a standing ovation for their performance on the west side last week, well maybe not the first line guys they should be booed every shift they get.

 

Miller should've been arrested after the 1st three games for all the robberies he pulled. Were his great performances in those games because he was that much closer to his wife?

 

All in all it was a good roadie. 6/8 points against playoff teams when your top line is nowhere to be found and your coach is nodding off from the Vicodin cause his ribs still hurt, is a great trip IMO. I still think it's too little too late, although I'll still be hoping for a miracle, but if Ruff and the top 3 don't pull their heads out of their arses, then it's a lost cause.

[deluca67]

I'd like to see Leino with him again.

 

Roy should be able to run distraction for Vanek to get open, but Roy's been running down blind alleys, too often. I wonder if they communicate enough as a line.

 

Vanek goes into a shell, head swaying back and forth, muffling curses, a total shell. I think he needs someone to get in his face. Maybe not Leino. Pommers is a good influence on Vanek, for sure, but he's not going to snap him out of it.

 

Who would though? It would take some pretty high status dude to get in Vanek's face when he's swaying back and forth, muffling curses, like he does. If it's Leino, then wow!

They don't have that personality currently on the roster.

[SwampD]

Some random thoughts on the game -

• Contrary to what just about everyone here thinks, I thought Vanek played a pretty good game. I don't know if I've ever seen him skate harder.
  
• I've been a Roy supporter forever, but the facts don't lie. Whatever line he gets put on goes cold.
  
• With as much pressure as W'peg put on us, we had a lot of chances. They score on a couple of theirs and we didn't.
  
• People are talking like we got blown out last night. We just ran into a rested team, that is the best in the league at home, at the end of a tough road trip. It's not like we got blown out.
  
• Just once I would like to see the passion that Wheeler had after scoring from a Sabre.
  
• On to the next. It ain't over yet.
  

[LastPommerFan]

IMO, the games against Anaheim and San Jose were ALL Miller, and I would not classify them as good defensive road games. 80+ shots and your goalie stopped all of them.

 

Ryan "I'll throw my D Under the Bus" Miller did.

 

Even last night, the collapse around the goal, and clearing the crease were pretty good.

[TrueBlueGED]

Went out for the game last night, which had both positives and negatives. On the negative side of things, I never pay as close attention to the little things when at a bar. On the positive side, there was a steady supply of alcohol to wash away the pain.

 

I was impressed with the amount of turnovers. No really, it's hard to turn the puck over that much. Quite the accomplishment.

 

Miller needs to rest, and given he hasn't been very good against Carolina lately, I actually kind of expect Enroth to play. Miller certainly wasn't the problem, but he clearly looked less sharp to me.

 

If they didn't take a 3 month vacation during the season, I'd be willing to give them the "tired excuse" for last night. But they can't afford to have those games, and it's entirely their own fault.

 

Vanek-Roy-Pominville I'm sure has been discussed to death in this thread, so this certainly isn't news....but holy crap that line sucks. It. Sucks.

 

Hodgson's worst game since getting here. And yet, he still could have had a few assists if his linemates could finish. I want him between Vanek and Pominville, Ennis back at center, and Roy on the 3rd line. What's the worst that could happen, our 4th line is our most productive? Oh right....

 

Maybe I'm a little weird, but I find it somewhat amusing we're all so pissed about losing to a fringe playoff team when we just beat the top team in the league on the road. If the Sabres hadn't taken their 3 month hiatus, I think we'd all be borderline celebrating a successful road trip. It's just funny how different situations can change the perception of the exact same event. What can I say, reality bites.