Agree to disagree, for now.

[apuszczalowski]

Another typical response. I love how you and GoDD run around here stirring the pot but never responding to anything when you're called on it.

 

You two are the Pat Kaletas of SabreSpace.

Please don't insult Pat Kaleta by comparing him to those posters. Pat Kaleta atleast provides something useful............

[LTS]

My 2 cents...

 

I like short posts. Not long winded ramblings.. Not that good points aren't being made. I just don't want to read novels when I come on a message board.

 

I post for clarity, not brevity. I realize that it matters little if you don't read it as my points will never be made to you so clarity becomes irrelevant. I'll see if I can't throw in an executive summary here or there for you :)

 

As I said before, those who continually say the same things over and over again serve no purpose but to hear themselves speak. Responding to them, about them, insinuating towards them in any way is a waste of effort and only reinforces the behavior. Two things I recommend, ignore them, or, if you can't do that, put them on the filter list so you don't see anything they say.

 

GoDD - sorry man, I wasn't hear when you prognosticated the sale of the Sabres. I can't speak to your statements of proclamation. I can speak to the time I've been here, that's all. You stick to your point on the Sabres and you'll be right or wrong. Time will tell. If you are wrong I expect you to stand up and admit it (unlike so many media prognosticators) and if you are right, kudos to you. I'd prefer if you substantiated your thoughts on action with suggestions on what moves the team could take or respond to moves made and state how the Sabres should have done that. It's up to you of course whether or not you can or will do that.

[Campy]

While there are points in this thread that it reads more like prepubescent hissy fits, I can't stop myself, I've got to chime in...

 

The problem with the negative nancies is that they repeat the same mantra ad nauseum as if doing so will change any minds or make any kind of difference to anyone outside the cloistered environment that is sabrespace. Frankly, it gets old.

 

But on the other hand, I consider myself a fan, not a critic. Which are you?

[darksabre]

While there are points in this thread that it reads more like prepubescent hissy fits, I can't stop myself, I've got to chime in...

 

The problem with the negative nancies is that they repeat the same mantra ad nauseum as if doing so will change any minds or make any kind of difference to anyone outside the cloistered environment that is sabrespace. Frankly, it gets old.

 

But on the other hand, I consider myself a fan, not a critic. Which are you?

 

It's not easy to draw separation between the two. Fans may be critics and critics may be fans. I have no issue with grounded criticism and discussion on the flaws of the team, but when discussion turns to preaching is when I become angry. When someone touts their ideas as "obvious", or creates little intra-forum clubs to separate themselves from other members of the forum, and essentially makes things about themselves rather than the team, is when I become angry.

 

LTS, I understand the idea of ignoring the antagonists, but we've been doing that for a very long time here. To the point where "truce" threads have to be created. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. The truth is that there are some posters here who want to hear themselves talk, and they'll continue to do it as vehemently as possible regardless of whether anyone is actually listening.

 

This is supposed to be a community of friends who share a common thread. Not a war between alliances about who is right and wrong.

[Claude_Verret]

It's funny to watch so many posters expend energy and show so much hatred towards posters like myself and GoDD, while the ones responsible for this teams continued failures, Status Quo, escape the ire. Is is as simple as myself and GoDD offer distractions as convenient targets? As soon as some of you are willing to turn as critical an eye towards the Status Quo as you do towards your fellow posters, a spot on the TSC will be waiting for you. As GoDD said, it's not my fault the Sabres are on the outside looking in, again. But if it helps your denial by blaming me, all I can say is I am glad I can help make your day a little better.

 

 

A few thoughts..

 

I think hate is a pretty strong word and I can only really speak for myself, but there is no room in my life for me to hate anyone based on posts on an internet forum.

 

I think a better word for me would be exhaustion. There can't be a regular poster here who doesn't know where you and Drane stand in regard to Sabres management and how the team is run. The last few weeks of the moratorium notwithstanding those same thoughts creep into almost every post. Again, and again and again. It just seems pointless to me to keep harping away on something that we all know we have absolutely positively no way of changing. I prefer to enjoy or get steaming mad at this team on a game to game basis and just let the season unfold.

 

Once the season is done, maybe you should poll the members here to get a feel of just how many would prefer to see "status quo" shown the door. I think the results may surprise you. For the record, I'd prefer they get shown the door, but I'd bet my house they are here at least through next season.

[LastPommerFan]

It's not easy to draw separation between the two. Fans may be critics and critics may be fans. I have no issue with grounded criticism and discussion on the flaws of the team, but when discussion turns to preaching is when I become angry. When someone touts their ideas as "obvious", or creates little intra-forum clubs to separate themselves from other members of the forum, and essentially makes things about themselves rather than the team, is when I become angry.

 

LTS, I understand the idea of ignoring the antagonists, but we've been doing that for a very long time here. To the point where "truce" threads have to be created. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. The truth is that there are some posters here who want to hear themselves talk, and they'll continue to do it as vehemently as possible regardless of whether anyone is actually listening.

 

This is supposed to be a community of friends who share a common thread. Not a war between alliances about who is right and wrong.

 

To be fair, the TSC label was created for them, not by them.

 

When the sports stress level is as high as it has been for the past week or so, this kind of skirmish is inevitable. The team has given both sides anecdotal evidence that are right in their thinking.

 

The negative side is safer, albeit less fun to be on. 8 out of the 30 teams will win a playoff series this year. just over 10% will win 2. and only 1 team gets to take home the cup. The odds are in the favor of failure, even for the penguins, blues, and redwings.

 

Thinking the team is close, maybe even there but for a 2 month stretch where are completely different team had to take the ice because 4 or 6 starters were out every game, is much more difficult. The only way we can prove to be right is to throw a parade with a giant silver chalice. And the odds are not ever in our favor.

[dEnnis the Menace]

It's not easy to draw separation between the two. Fans may be critics and critics may be fans. I have no issue with grounded criticism and discussion on the flaws of the team, but when discussion turns to preaching is when I become angry. When someone touts their ideas as "obvious", or creates little intra-forum clubs to separate themselves from other members of the forum, and essentially makes things about themselves rather than the team, is when I become angry.

 

LTS, I understand the idea of ignoring the antagonists, but we've been doing that for a very long time here. To the point where "truce" threads have to be created. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. The truth is that there are some posters here who want to hear themselves talk, and they'll continue to do it as vehemently as possible regardless of whether anyone is actually listening.

 

This is supposed to be a community of friends who share a common thread. Not a war between alliances about who is right and wrong.

 

Out of everything between you and GoDD, the bolded sentence is the most important take away.

 

A few thoughts..

 

I think hate is a pretty strong word and I can only really speak for myself, but there is no room in my life for me to hate anyone based on posts on an internet forum.

 

I think a better word for me would be exhaustion. There can't be a regular poster here who doesn't know where you and Drane stand in regard to Sabres management and how the team is run. The last few weeks of the moratorium notwithstanding those same thoughts creep into almost every post. Again, and again and again. It just seems pointless to me to keep harping away on something that we all know we have absolutely positively no way of changing. I prefer to enjoy or get steaming mad at this team on a game to game basis and just let the season unfold.

 

Once the season is done, maybe you should poll the members here to get a feel of just how many would prefer to see "status quo" shown the door. I think the results may surprise you. For the record, I'd prefer they get shown the door, but I'd bet my house they are here at least through next season.

 

Very well said.

 

I'm the same as you. If I hate someone, it's not for what they say on an internet forum. And exhaustion is the perfect word to fit in its place.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I post for clarity, not brevity. I realize that it matters little if you don't read it as my points will never be made to you so clarity becomes irrelevant. I'll see if I can't throw in an executive summary here or there for you :)

 

As I said before, those who continually say the same things over and over again serve no purpose but to hear themselves speak. Responding to them, about them, insinuating towards them in any way is a waste of effort and only reinforces the behavior. Two things I recommend, ignore them, or, if you can't do that, put them on the filter list so you don't see anything they say.

 

GoDD - sorry man, I wasn't hear when you prognosticated the sale of the Sabres. I can't speak to your statements of proclamation. I can speak to the time I've been here, that's all. You stick to your point on the Sabres and you'll be right or wrong. Time will tell. If you are wrong I expect you to stand up and admit it (unlike so many media prognosticators) and if you are right, kudos to you. I'd prefer if you substantiated your thoughts on action with suggestions on what moves the team could take or respond to moves made and state how the Sabres should have done that. It's up to you of course whether or not you can or will do that.

 

That is the problem. I have posted for 5 years what the same problems are, and my solutions to them. Everyone gets sick of hearing them, yet the Sabres fail to make any of the changes I suggest and are stuck in mediocrity at best. You get tired of playing the "what needs to be done" game when it is obvious the same decision makers are in place and those changes won't be made. People are sick of hearing what I say to begin with.

 

This team has not had a true leader in the lockerroom for 5 years, a guy with skill to get it done and fire and grit...especially in the top 9 forwards. The GM and coach seem incapable of identifying or developing that type of player. The best players on this team are passive in nature. They were expected to gel and grow, yet there was nobody to learn from. That has been my message.....with plenty of examples of how to change the culture over time. I've been begging for an Iginla or a Doan in here for 5 years to show guys like Stafford, Vanek, and gaustad how to do it. I've been begging for a stay at home defense that punishes people with a few offensive minded defensemen mixed in instead of 5 clones of the same guy. I've been begging for guys to be allowed to play off of instinct instead of adhereing to a strict, assignment first system where you are forced to think and not react.

 

It is obvious the Sabres have a different philosophy than I do, yet I have said for 5 years that they will fail to succeed and have given realistic opinions on who to bring in here. I even thought Ruff could be salvaged until this year's debacle. People want to say I am negative....but where have I been wrong about the past 5 years? I even left the board this year and came back when the Lucic hit happened because it was the grand culmination of what I have been saying over all this time....summed up in one single event. There are a few posters here that I had private conversations with as to what I felt would happen this year....and how I wouldn't post as to not drag down the optimists. They politely disagreed and we wished each other well. I assumed after the Lucic hit and subsequent swan dive that the changes I have been craving in the seat of decision makers on this team was all but certain. I had HOPE. Now it is obvious that there will be no major change.

 

One thing I will do with posters I respect, even if they don't always love me, is to offer up ceremonial charity bets to prove I am not just blowing hot air, but believe in my opinions strongly. If I was looking to create chaos for the sake of doing so, I would be a fool to offer up money on outlandish predictions.

 

Over these 5 years, posters such as DeLuca and myself....along with some very good posters who have left, have done so because certain people can't separate critique of million dollar players and management.....and personal attacks on those doing the critiquing. Animosity builds up over time as the Sabres have shown pure failure the past 5 years. Some would rather attack the messenger as opposed to truly coming to grips that serious issues may be abound with their team. I think the critical posters that get targeted, including myself, have been pretty damn good sports about it.

 

If you want an example.....just look at this thread. My post was to say how disappointing it was to see personal attacks in the game thread. I didn't even post in that thread but was shocked at the pirannah feeding. Somehow it got turned into a bash Ghost thread, even though I have been fairly quiet these past few weeks. Go ahead......look at this thread. I was suddenly an a-hole for keeping quiet. I'm an a-hole for talking too much. You can't please people.

 

Some people just need an excuse for failure. In many ways, certain fans emmulate their beloved hockey team. And when I say certain...I mean a good half dozen or so posters.....not the whole board. I made that mistake once before. However the noise from that select group is was causes my noise in response. If they could just respect an opinion, things would go along much more smoothly.

[LastPommerFan]

There are some of us who will relentlessly attack your position, without attacking your person. I have way more fun with a good challenge to my ideas than I would with a bunch of rah rah. I don't agree that you and Deluca are bad posters with nothing to add. Those people exist here, but you are not they.

[Punch]

This team has not had a true leader in the lockerroom for 5 years, a guy with skill to get it done and fire and grit...especially in the top 9 forwards. The GM and coach seem incapable of identifying or developing that type of player. The best players on this team are passive in nature. They were expected to gel and grow, yet there was nobody to learn from. That has been my message.....with plenty of examples of how to change the culture over time. I've been begging for an Iginla or a Doan in here for 5 years to show guys like Stafford, Vanek, and gaustad how to do it. I've been begging for a stay at home defense that punishes people with a few offensive minded defensemen mixed in instead of 5 clones of the same guy. I've been begging for guys to be allowed to play off of instinct instead of adhereing to a strict, assignment first system where you are forced to think and not react.

 

Although it was ultimately his incompetence that lead to the July 1, 2007 fiasco--- and as much as it pains me to acknowledge it--- it is worth nothing that Larry Quinn is the front office figure that identified Chris Drury as a player the Sabres needed to target in the summer of 2003 when we were promised aggressive pursuit of a true top 6 forward.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

There are some of us who will relentlessly attack your position, without attacking your person. I have way more fun with a good challenge to my ideas than I would with a bunch of rah rah. I don't agree that you and Deluca are bad posters with nothing to add. Those people exist here, but you are not they.

 

Thanks man.....I respect almost every poster here. I highly respect one poster who for some reason has decided to go Bertuzzi on me all of a sudden.

 

I have no problem with having a little fun with each other. Even if you get frustrated, it shouldn't get to the point of hatred. This place sometimes is like watching the women's team on Celebrity Apprentice

 

Although it was ultimately his incompetence that lead to the July 1, 2007 fiasco--- and as much as it pains me to acknowledge it--- it is worth nothing that Larry Quinn is the front office figure that identified Chris Drury as a player the Sabres needed to target in the summer of 2003 when we were promised aggressive pursuit of a true top 6 forward.

 

Quinn was a sharp guy, too sharp in certain regards. That's why you had to question his motives in every move.

 

I hear he is trying to find true inner peace these days. Good for him

[Robviously]

Although it was ultimately his incompetence that lead to the July 1, 2007 fiasco--- and as much as it pains me to acknowledge it--- it is worth nothing that Larry Quinn is the front office figure that identified Chris Drury as a player the Sabres needed to target in the summer of 2003 when we were promised aggressive pursuit of a true top 6 forward.

If that's true, that's some pretty big evidence that people with no professional background in hockey don't know that much less than the guys who get paid to run teams (GMs, coaches, scouts, etc.). There are definitely fans who could be made NHL GMs without doing a terrible job at it.

[Eleven]

That is the problem. I have posted for 5 years what the same problems are, and my solutions to them. Everyone gets sick of hearing them, yet the Sabres fail to make any of the changes I suggest and are stuck in mediocrity at best. You get tired of playing the "what needs to be done" game when it is obvious the same decision makers are in place and those changes won't be made. People are sick of hearing what I say to begin with.

 

This team has not had a true leader in the lockerroom for 5 years, a guy with skill to get it done and fire and grit...especially in the top 9 forwards. The GM and coach seem incapable of identifying or developing that type of player. The best players on this team are passive in nature. They were expected to gel and grow, yet there was nobody to learn from. That has been my message.....with plenty of examples of how to change the culture over time. I've been begging for an Iginla or a Doan in here for 5 years to show guys like Stafford, Vanek, and gaustad how to do it. I've been begging for a stay at home defense that punishes people with a few offensive minded defensemen mixed in instead of 5 clones of the same guy. I've been begging for guys to be allowed to play off of instinct instead of adhereing to a strict, assignment first system where you are forced to think and not react.

 

It is obvious the Sabres have a different philosophy than I do, yet I have said for 5 years that they will fail to succeed and have given realistic opinions on who to bring in here. I even thought Ruff could be salvaged until this year's debacle. People want to say I am negative....but where have I been wrong about the past 5 years? I even left the board this year and came back when the Lucic hit happened because it was the grand culmination of what I have been saying over all this time....summed up in one single event. There are a few posters here that I had private conversations with as to what I felt would happen this year....and how I wouldn't post as to not drag down the optimists. They politely disagreed and we wished each other well. I assumed after the Lucic hit and subsequent swan dive that the changes I have been craving in the seat of decision makers on this team was all but certain. I had HOPE. Now it is obvious that there will be no major change.

 

One thing I will do with posters I respect, even if they don't always love me, is to offer up ceremonial charity bets to prove I am not just blowing hot air, but believe in my opinions strongly. If I was looking to create chaos for the sake of doing so, I would be a fool to offer up money on outlandish predictions.

 

Over these 5 years, posters such as DeLuca and myself....along with some very good posters who have left, have done so because certain people can't separate critique of million dollar players and management.....and personal attacks on those doing the critiquing. Animosity builds up over time as the Sabres have shown pure failure the past 5 years. Some would rather attack the messenger as opposed to truly coming to grips that serious issues may be abound with their team. I think the critical posters that get targeted, including myself, have been pretty damn good sports about it.

 

If you want an example.....just look at this thread. My post was to say how disappointing it was to see personal attacks in the game thread. I didn't even post in that thread but was shocked at the pirannah feeding. Somehow it got turned into a bash Ghost thread, even though I have been fairly quiet these past few weeks. Go ahead......look at this thread. I was suddenly an a-hole for keeping quiet. I'm an a-hole for talking too much. You can't please people.

 

Some people just need an excuse for failure. In many ways, certain fans emmulate their beloved hockey team. And when I say certain...I mean a good half dozen or so posters.....not the whole board. I made that mistake once before. However the noise from that select group is was causes my noise in response. If they could just respect an opinion, things would go along much more smoothly.

 

That's not really the problem. The problem is when it gets repeated in every thread, as someone noted above. Sabres trade for Kovy as DeLuca wanted? Some idiot would have posted a "Ruff will ruin him" comment and diverted the whole thread.

 

No one wants to suppress opinions, especially well-reasoned ones. It's the trolling that gets tiresome to the point where it's an exercise, rather than a pleasure, to come to this board and talk hockey.

[LastPommerFan]

That's not really the problem. The problem is when it gets repeated in every thread, as someone noted above. Sabres trade for Kovy as DeLuca wanted? Some idiot would have posted a "Ruff will ruin him" comment and diverted the whole thread.

 

No one wants to suppress opinions, especially well-reasoned ones. It's the trolling that gets tiresome to the point where it's an exercise, rather than a pleasure, to come to this board and talk hockey.

 

I'd bet if we took a sampling of the posts that diverted the threads, and their aftermaths, it would be a chorus of "sometimes" posters that cause most of it, and the oft posting TSC and SKC guys jump in later.

[Eleven]

I'd bet if we took a sampling of the posts that diverted the threads, and their aftermaths, it would be a chorus of "sometimes" posters that cause most of it, and the oft posting TSC and SKC guys jump in later.

 

I'm not one for these silly labels, but I'll bet you're right.

[Swedesessed]

I think the truth between say for lack of a better word, the 'fanboys' of a team and the negative nanny's definitely fall somewhere in the middle.

 

I do consider Deluca a fan who knows the game who is addicted to pushing the buttons of the perceived 'fanboys' of the Buffalo Sabres, and generally the bait is taken. But within these rants, there are good points made.

 

Regier made some nice moves at the deadline. CH I promise you will look like a steal in the long run. Are there things that Regier can focus on that I wish he would? Absolutely. Does Ruff drive me crazy at times? Yes. At this point though, I am thinking 1 more year, give them all the resources and see what they can do. Same results? Show then both the door.

 

 

I know I'm probably late to this party, but my biggest fear of Pegula is: is he too much of a fan? Will he have the ability to fire ex players that I am sure he loved to watch? Will he totally stand by his 'We are in the business to win Stanley Cups' or is it really 'We are in the business to win the Stanley Cup with people and players I admire'

 

Time will tell.

[Campy]

That's not really the problem. The problem is when it gets repeated in every thread, as someone noted above. Sabres trade for Kovy as DeLuca wanted? Some idiot would have posted a "Ruff will ruin him" comment and diverted the whole thread.

 

No one wants to suppress opinions, especially well-reasoned ones. It's the trolling that gets tiresome to the point where it's an exercise, rather than a pleasure, to come to this board and talk hockey.

 

You nailed it.

[shrader]

The whole thing can be summed up with these two excerpts from your post.

 

I even left the board this year and came back when the Lucic hit happened

 

even though I have been fairly quiet these past few weeks.

 

The team plays well and you disappear. You only post when they struggle. You enjoy ruffling feathers.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The whole thing can be summed up with these two excerpts from your post.

 

 

 

 

 

The team plays well and you disappear. You only post when they struggle. You enjoy ruffling feathers.

 

How about you look at it the opposite way.

 

When things are good.....I LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE and shut up and don't want to ruin your buzz.

 

It is only when things go so badly that they are obvious flaws to most that the majority here are willing to work towards finding solutions.

 

I learned that in the past.

 

Why should I repeat when things are going well..."This will end in failure!"????

 

I wait until there is failure......as there has been the past 5 years......without fail.......

[deluca67]

How about you look at it the opposite way.

 

When things are good.....I LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE and shut up and don't want to ruin your buzz.

 

It is only when things go so badly that they are obvious flaws to most that the majority here are willing to work towards finding solutions.

 

I learned that in the past.

 

Why should I repeat when things are going well..."This will end in failure!"????

 

I wait until there is failure......as there has been the past 5 years......without fail.......

They want to make about the poster, not the opinions. It's the only hope they have. Don't give it to them.

[Eleven]

They want to make about the poster, not the opinions. It's the only hope they have. Don't give it to them.

 

Dammit, DeLuca, there is no "them"! Do you see the problem, FFS?!

[LTS]

GoDD - Thanks for the background. I'll be honest. More often than not I don't even look at who's posting. I look at what's being said.

 

I'm not going to try and alter anything. I understand your point, I am pretty sure you understand mine. I'm waiting until the end of the season right now.. as I said, I'd rather enjoy as much of this season as I can.

[I am Defecting]

I'm not one for these silly labels, but I'll bet you're right.

 

What's SKC? Sunshine Kittens?

[Eleven]

What's SKC? Sunshine Kittens?

 

I have no idea.

[FolignosJock]

What's SKC? Sunshine Kittens?

 

Probably hipsters, with their skinny jeans and scarves, and their non-chalant conforming in a non-conforming way selves :unsure: