Agree to disagree, for now.

[Claude_Verret]

I find absolutely no problem with anyone beating the same drum for years, even going on a crusade. It's an internet fan board, we have moderators, not editors. I cannot disagree with Eleven more, when he suggests that any poster leave because they are building an online "character". We're all characters to some extent, that's why it Says LastPommerFan to the left of my post and not my real name. I do draw a line when the discussion becomes insulting or badgering (The Battle of the Snow People from last winter would be a great example of that). Sure there are people who cross that line, some do it a lot, but all in all, there is way too much discussion about the posters on this board, from both sides, than there should be. I think the Mods do a good job of keeping the really destructive crap off the boards, and leave a good edge to the discussion.

 

I agree that the personal attacks should not be tolerated, but I disagree on crusades. When you crusade on a message board it gets to the point where any regular poster could come in and fill in nearly verbatim on how the crusading poster will weigh in on a topic. To me, when it becomes that predictable, it adds absolutely no value to the discussion whatsoever and really only serves to irk/troll other posters.

 

But it is what it is and nobody is going to change anyones deeply entrenched position at this point. So to go back to the thread topic, let's all just agree to disagree and LET'S GO BUFFALO!!

[North Buffalo]

If that's what you think the point of this thread is, then you have no idea what it's about. But I encourage you to dismiss it as such instead of attempting to understand it.

 

Just saying, people who I think have been overly positive and often insult people who still point out problems with this team. Another words I think it goes both ways. Both I also think we should all have thicker skins. Besides insulting is a debating tactic used to get people to go off point and lose their argument. Finally, I agree with the below statement.

I do draw a line when the discussion becomes insulting or badgering (The Battle of the Snow People from last winter would be a great example of that). Sure there are people who cross that line, some do it a lot, but all in all, there is way too much discussion about the posters on this board, from both sides, than there should be. I think the Mods do a good job of keeping the really destructive crap off the boards, and leave a good edge to the discussion.

 

I have been rooting for the Sabres since the very early 70s and wil always. That doesn't stop me from expressing my frustration with managment decisions, players slacking, and people on this board being overly gung ho and criticizing those who point out flaws in the team. It is a still and Ghost is no worse or better than some who call critics at times - - haters. Because you or anyone else criticizes my opinion doesn't mean I take my puck and go home.

 

That being said, I still think Roy is a cancer and Stapphyl is a pansy that plays only when he wants too. Some call it streaky, I call it heart and he has none in my opinion. Once again it is my opinion, but as the old saying goes, if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

Yes, I think the discussion the last few pages is overblown and at best given Drane a healthy rise for poking fun at the sun is always shinning crowd. That being said, this board is tame compared to others I have been on.

[nfreeman]

I still think Ruff and Regier will bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo. Sometime in the next 3 seasons, in fact.

 

Good man.

 

I find absolutely no problem with anyone beating the same drum for years, even going on a crusade. It's an internet fan board, we have moderators, not editors. I cannot disagree with Eleven more, when he suggests that any poster leave because they are building an online "character". We're all characters to some extent, that's why it Says LastPommerFan to the left of my post and not my real name.

 

I do draw a line when the discussion becomes insulting or badgering (The Battle of the Snow People from last winter would be a great example of that). Sure there are people who cross that line, some do it a lot, but all in all, there is way too much discussion about the posters on this board, from both sides, than there should be. I think the Mods do a good job of keeping the really destructive crap off the boards, and leave a good edge to the discussion.

Amen. Preach it.

 

 

Way too ###### many posts about posters. It isn't the pro or anti Sabres threads that are slowly but surely pushing me away from this forum, it is all the damned posts that serve no purpose but to call out other posters, and this issue goes all the way to the top. And both sides do it. Really, as much as the anti-GoDD's have gotten tired of him and DeLuca bringing up mgt in more threads than is warranted, I've grown equally weary of seeing the DeLuca's and GoDD's getting called out, egged on, and otherwise trolled in threads they aren't even active in. For cryin out loud, all it does is spur them on in threads they didn't need to be spurred on in. And to be fair, the anti-GoDD's have every right to take umbrage at the tone that has been used too frequently to characterize them by their antagonists. Nonetheless, just like last season when the team was on the bubble, it has gotten out of hand.

 

FFS talk about the team, not about other posters.

 

2 excellent posts.

 

Enough already.

[SDS]

Way too ###### many posts about posters. It isn't the pro or anti Sabres threads that are slowly but surely pushing me away from this forum, it is all the damned posts that serve no purpose but to call out other posters, and this issue goes all the way to the top.

 

That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the poster that makes a spectacle of themselves, not the community. When a poster becomes the subject of the conversation - that is their fault and solely their fault. It is up to them to change, not for 1000 people to bite their tongues or grin and bear it. When a poster becomes the subject of the conversation - they are doing it wrong by this community's standard. It is no coincidence that there have been people here years and years and have never had a problem. It is also no coincidence that the same small handful of people have problem after problem.

[Kristian]

I understand this point of view, but It comes down to how does this view shape your character on his board in light of the reality of the whole situation. Whether he Sabres had this run or not LR & DR are going to be back next year. You know it, I know it, DeLuca knows it, Drane knows it...EVERYONE knows status quo will run the show at minimum one more year. Probably two. So given that, what sense does it make to constantly highlight the negatives and always minimize the positives when it comes to this team when we all know there isn't a damn thing that we can do to change the reality of the situation?

 

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.

 

It makes sense, because it's how I feel - I don't for a moment think I have a say in who's the GM and coach, so even if I know they're most likely never going anywhere, why should I just accept this and keep silent?

 

That's like saying that even though we know a Stanley Cup is probably not in the cards for years and years, we should never talk about winning it?

[Weave]

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.

 

It makes sense, because it's how I feel - I don't for a moment think I have a say in who's the GM and coach, so even if I know they're most likely never going anywhere, why should I just accept this and keep silent?

 

That's like saying that even though we know a Stanley Cup is probably not in the cards for years and years, we should never talk about winning it?

 

No, what he is saying is that he thinks it is OK for other posters to focus on people like GoDD and DeLuca and attack them. He sees it as self-policing. He and I have had conversations about it before. We don't agree on it.

[Claude_Verret]

No, what he is saying is that he thinks it is OK for other posters to focus on people like GoDD and DeLuca and attack them. He sees it as self-policing. He and I have had conversations about it before. We don't agree on it.

 

I did? I don't agree on attacking anyone personally. But if you're going to put the same crap out there time and time again then yes you open yourself up to being called out on the content, or lack thereof, of your posts.

[Weave]

I did? I don't agree on attacking anyone personally. But if you're going to put the same crap out there time and time again then yes you open yourself up to being called out on the content, or lack thereof, of your posts.

 

It was a general comment, I wasn't directing that word at you.

[R_Dudley]

No, what he is saying is that he thinks it is OK for other posters to focus on people like GoDD and DeLuca and attack them. He sees it as self-policing. He and I have had conversations about it before. We don't agree on it.

 

Ding, ding, ding, winner, winner chicken dinner.

 

Key points, conversations and acknowledgement of not agreeing in a very civil manner I might say.

[darksabre]

That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the poster that makes a spectacle of themselves, not the community. When a poster becomes the subject of the conversation - that is their fault and solely their fault. It is up to them to change, not for 1000 people to bite their tongues or grin and bear it. When a poster becomes the subject of the conversation - they are doing it wrong by this community's standard. It is no coincidence that there have been people here years and years and have never had a problem. It is also no coincidence that the same small handful of people have problem after problem.

 

Thank you.

[SDS]

No, what he is saying is that he thinks it is OK for other posters to focus on people like GoDD and DeLuca and attack them. He sees it as self-policing. He and I have had conversations about it before. We don't agree on it.

 

I think you have people mixed up in that reply (I assume you are thinking of me).

 

People who attack other people for the sake of it - get removed quickly. They last about a week.

 

What is left are people who do not do that as their 1st instinct/mode of operation. They just want to talk about the team with friendly, like-minded fans. They are incredibly tolerant of a variety of viewpoints expressed in a socially-acceptable way. They are here to talk about entertainment to enhance their entertainment. They have every right to defend their community when they perceive it being devalued by people who lack proper social skills or audience awareness when adding their viewpoint. They don't want to have to do that. They want to talk about the team and life in general. However, I appreciate that people care enough about this place that they don't want to be driven away, nor see other enjoyable people driven away - because of the socially inept behavior of the few.

[Weave]

I think you have people mixed up in that reply (I assume you are thinking of me).

 

People who attack other people for the sake of it - get removed quickly. They last about a week.

 

What is left are people who do not do that as their 1st instinct/mode of operation. They just want to talk about the team with friendly, like-minded fans. They are incredibly tolerant of a variety of viewpoints expressed in a socially-acceptable way. They are here to talk about entertainment to enhance their entertainment. They have every right to defend their community when they perceive it being devalued by people who lack proper social skills or audience awareness when adding their viewpoint. They don't want to have to do that. They want to talk about the team and life in general. However, I appreciate that people care enough about this place that they don't want to be driven away, nor see other enjoyable people driven away - because of the socially inept behavior of the few.

 

I think you are minimizing what the side you agree with is doing, and its effect on the discussion here. You've participated in the baiting in the past so I'd expect you to defend it.

 

This isn't new ground. I have no desire to go over it again.

[SwampD]

I think you are minimizing what the side you agree with is doing, and its effect on the discussion here. You've participated in the baiting in the past so I'd expect you to defend it.

 

This isn't new ground. I have no desire to go over it again.

I'm with weave.

[North Buffalo]

I think you have people mixed up in that reply (I assume you are thinking of me).

 

People who attack other people for the sake of it - get removed quickly. They last about a week.

 

What is left are people who do not do that as their 1st instinct/mode of operation. They just want to talk about the team with friendly, like-minded fans. They are incredibly tolerant of a variety of viewpoints expressed in a socially-acceptable way. They are here to talk about entertainment to enhance their entertainment. They have every right to defend their community when they perceive it being devalued by people who lack proper social skills or audience awareness when adding their viewpoint. They don't want to have to do that. They want to talk about the team and life in general. However, I appreciate that people care enough about this place that they don't want to be driven away, nor see other enjoyable people driven away - because of the socially inept behavior of the few.

 

Amen Brother!

 

That being said, I think a few who complain too much often about other's tenor have their panties in a bunch just because someone differs with their view point strongly. If it were someone just making personal attacks all the time, I would indeed report the person. But here and there when emotions are running high or even less specific haters v. sunshiners debate I have no problems with. I am a big boy and can take it. Also, it makes this board fun and healthy. Hey I am not a puritan, I don't write like one and from what I have read neither are most of the posters on this board.

 

I think everyone needs to gain a little self deprication and take a chill pill.

[LTS]

No, it's about being entertained, and if we were all that entertained by movies we've seen a hundred times, then why would Hollywood ever shoot another?

 

I said I didn't find it enjoyable to watch Miller get run, or losing an obscene amount of road games in a row. If you had to spend money on something you didn't find enjoyable, wouldn't you call that a waste of money?

 

Just to go back here.. why do you HAVE to spend money on this?

 

Right, so why automatically jump on the pessimistic side? Is it just easier?

 

People naturally are pessimistic, it's a natural reaction to minimize stress and disappointment. If you prepare yourself for the worst you will not be as bothered by it when it happens. Therefore a pessimist is either right (thus feel better for knowing it would be bad) or they are pleasantly surprised (thus feeling good for a good outcome). If you reverse that and look at people who are always optimistic it's an either or proposition. Either you are right (and feel good for being right and for a good outcome) or you are wrong ( and feel bad because you were wrong and worse for the negative outcome).

 

People keep talking about "enjoying the moment." I would enjoy these little "moments" more if I didn't know they were going to be used, by those that can make real changes, as an excuse not to remove a coach and general manager I have zero respect for and zero faith in. I would love to go into a season thinking that maybe, just maybe, this is the year the Sabres win a Stanley Cup. It's been a long time since I felt that way, I fear it will be a long time until I feel that way again. At least not until Status Quo is removed.

 

I'm just curious here. You have seen the operations of Terry Pegula and Ted Black for about 1 year now and you are convinced you know what they will do? Pegula and Black talked about how injuries were hurting the Sabres and everyone blasted them during the season. Yet, once the Sabres were healthy they began to win far more than lose. It seems that there is at least some example that they know what they are talking about. Now, the next level of conversation would be to address why injuries are playing that big a role. I would argue that the inexperience in the depth of the Sabres is a problem. Of course that's not something fixed overnight and certainly not in one year. The salary cap doesn't allow for you to overhaul a roster in that time.

 

So, after 1 year of decision making to state, unequivocally, that you KNOW how the leadership of this team will react would come off as a bit pompous and unbelievable don't you think?

 

I get that you don't like Status Quo but they don't decide if they get to stick around. Do you feel Regier's moves under Pegula are the same or worse as under Pegula? If so then I can see why you believe he's still a liability. You still don't know that they will be around next season. Despite your desires leadership is not going to say the GM and coach are gone until they are ready to fire them.

 

Here's what I know about the Sabres. Terry Pegula made a fortune building a company. He has proven that he has the wherewithal to operate a complex organization and make it successful. Ted Black served in a highly effective role for the Pittsburgh Penguins and the fruits of his work are readily apparent to any who look at the Penguins today. 29 coaches and GMs fail in their quest each year to win the Stanley Cup. 50% of them fail to reach the playoffs. Those who have gone deep in the playoffs have turned around the following year and missed and vice versa. I don't have a job in hockey, I don't pretend to know more than the people who are placed into the positions they are placed. I can judge whether I think they are effective based solely upon what I can see and what I am told. I know that what I see and what I am told for the most part is about 20% of the entire situation. Based upon 20% of information I don't feel that it's prudent to pass judgment on people and their ability to do their jobs.

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

I am a new member on this site, and I was very excited to join the community and discuss the Buffalo Sabres. So far the experience hasn't quite lived up to my expectations. I started tiring of the 'feud' and the endless iterations of the same talking points that seem to creep into every single thread.

 

I wouldn't mind the discussions about the current path of the Sabres if it was based on solid reasoning and insight, but that's not the case in my opinion. There is a lot of noise being generated, but no real hockey related substance. If someone is going to declare doom over the Sabres, I want to hear exactly what would be a better path, and explanations why it would improve the franchise. What I get now is a torrent of negativity without any credible alternative reasoning or analysis on how things could improve. The 'best' attempts at reasoning rely heavily on appeal to tradition, 20/20 hindsight and cherry picking. I want more substance if I am going to take an argument from an armchair GM seriously.

 

The toxicity caused by the ongoing bickering on the site almost had me give up on going to the board all together, until I found the secret weapon: The ignore filter! By adding 3 or 4 posters to the ignore filter, the board becomes much more useable to me. I recommend it to anyone who feels individual posters are derailing the community.

[SDS]

I think you are minimizing what the side you agree with is doing, and its effect on the discussion here. You've participated in the baiting in the past so I'd expect you to defend it.

 

This isn't new ground. I have no desire to go over it again.

 

The side that I agree with? I only have one side - the side that wants to use this community as a place for fun, to enhance their enjoyment of the game, and to build friendships. I am against those whose behaviors interfere with that. Pretty simple.

 

FYI, I would have replaced DR and LR long ago and I would at the end of this season regardless of the outcome. I would also replace pretty much every player that consisted of the proverbial "core". The product is stale, IMO. So, your statement about "my side" is rather curious. I can't change the team. No one here can change the team, so obnoxiously beating a daily drum does nothing to make this place better. Relentlessly trying to turn other people against the team does not make this place better or more inviting. Criticizing, scoffing and belittling their enjoyment of the Sabres - a flawed team or not - is the antithesis of what this place is about.

 

"My side" just wants to talk about the Sabres and life, free from agendas, crusades, and pointless manifestos delivered to people that are just looking for a place to enhance their enjoyment of hockey.

 

Somehow, you find disagreement in this.

[shrader]

I am a new member on this site, and I was very excited to join the community and discuss the Buffalo Sabres. So far the experience hasn't quite lived up to my expectations. I started tiring of the 'feud' and the endless iterations of the same talking points that seem to creep into every single thread.

 

I wouldn't mind the discussions about the current path of the Sabres if it was based on solid reasoning and insight, but that's not the case in my opinion. There is a lot of noise being generated, but no real hockey related substance. If someone is going to declare doom over the Sabres, I want to hear exactly what would be a better path, and explanations why it would improve the franchise. What I get now is a torrent of negativity without any credible alternative reasoning or analysis on how things could improve. The 'best' attempts at reasoning rely heavily on appeal to tradition, 20/20 hindsight and cherry picking. I want more substance if I am going to take an argument from an armchair GM seriously.

 

The toxicity caused by the ongoing bickering on the site almost had me give up on going to the board all together, until I found the secret weapon: The ignore filter! By adding 3 or 4 posters to the ignore filter, the board becomes much more useable to me. I recommend it to anyone who feels individual posters are derailing the community.

 

I will give everyone credit for one thing in all of this discussion, it has been confined to this thread. For those who don't want to read it, the discussion is easy enough to avoid. There is some value to what's going on here, but for those who don't really see it because they haven't been around long enough to see how far back this goes, they can keep on doing what they're doing in every other thread.

[Claude_Verret]

I don't understand what you mean by this at all.

 

It makes sense, because it's how I feel - I don't for a moment think I have a say in who's the GM and coach, so even if I know they're most likely never going anywhere, why should I just accept this and keep silent?

 

That's like saying that even though we know a Stanley Cup is probably not in the cards for years and years, we should never talk about winning it?

 

Sorry my post wasn't directed at you per se. Of course this place is all about people expressing their opinions about the Buffalo Sabres, therefore no honest opinions should ever be stifled. As I've said before, and I think there are more than a few others who are with me in saying that I wish this team had gone in a different direction at coach and GM years ago. I just don't believe that crowbaring this particular opinion of mine into nearly every single thread whether its germane to the topic under discussion or not, serves the forum well in any way shape or form.

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

I will give everyone credit for one thing in all of this discussion, it has been confined to this thread. For those who don't want to read it, the discussion is easy enough to avoid. There is some value to what's going on here, but for those who don't really see it because they haven't been around long enough to see how far back this goes, they can keep on doing what they're doing in every other thread.

 

Perhaps this discussion is well contained, but the underlying issue creeps into more threads than what is needed. I try to stay away from all of this stuff, but even I can't help but get introduced to TSC and SKC and their positions every single day.

[Patty16]

Perhaps this discussion is well contained, but the underlying issue creeps into more threads than what is needed. I try to stay away from all of this stuff, but even I can't help but get introduced to TSC and SKC and their positions every single day.

 

This is why I and others use this board less and less. Many of the super posters can almost cut and paste every post they make despite the thread's topic.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Drain, please realize that most people here root for the Sabres, and want to talk about rooting for the Sabres.

 

If you can dig that, great; if it's still going to be about advancing your character as a character, well, then I think you made the right move last summer.

 

Please kindly stop refering to me as "Drain". I have let it go on for far too long. I know you think your condescention is clever, but it would be just about as clever as me refering to you as אחת עשרה

[spndnchz]

Let's end this and get back to hockey.

 

[nfreeman]

I was criticized by someone last year for saying this (and ironically it was someone who posted above about the importance of convivial and respectful conversation here), but this kind of bickering is not good-karma-producing.

 

There are 2 huge games tonight. How 'bout we pay attention to those and save the wee-wee contests for the endless summer?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I was criticized by someone last year for saying this (and ironically it was someone who posted above about the importance of convivial and respectful conversation here), but this kind of bickering is not good-karma-producing.

 

There are 2 huge games tonight. How 'bout we pay attention to those and save the wee-wee contests for the endless summer?

 

I have been paying attention to the games. In fact, after the Toronto loss I said that is exactally what you wanted to see if you want the Sabres to have a chance to advance in the playoffs. People are claiming a crusade....but I challenge them to find over the past few weeks where I was saying anything to demean the team. My post here was to say how sad it was that people were attacking each other during the Toronto game, and try to find common ground....then the personal attacks on me came.

 

It's obvious that a certain group only aims to discredit anything I say, and it leaves me in a defensive posture, ruining it for the rest of the community. While people were busy trying to run Stafford out of town, I said it would be folly to trade him and all he needs is a strong forward on his line who could dump and chase, and go to the net to get him to wake up. HOLY SH!T....see how that worked out?

 

I guess the "friendships" that are to be developed are only amomgst like-minded individuals. If certain people can't accept that you can be critical of the team and still want them to win....then either they are daft, or have an agenda. Either way, the spillover kills the fun for many others.

 

I'm convinced now there will be no meaningful change to the status quo yet again. My hope was Pegula. Long term he has a shot, but short term it will be the same doggy-paddling. I won't be deconstructive over the summer or next year because I won't bother to post unless we change GM/coach....or bring in multiple leaders like Shane Doan who can actually give a shot. If I ruin the fun for so many nice people, it isn't worth getting in the last word with a half dozen or so with a TRUE crusade.

 

Enjoy the next 8 weeks, or 8 hours....whichever comes first.