shrader Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 This goes back to my big problem with Darcy though. He does overvalue his players and he does try to "win" every trade, but I'm wondering if this prevents him from making trades that are just "good." Just because we got ridiculous value for Gaustad, that doesn't mean any similar trade (moving Roy or Leopold) had to be just as lopsided. I don't want our GM to only be concerned with "winning" trades. The trades should be made with a plan in mind for building a team that can win. Just because we couldn't find a lopsided trade for Roy like we did for Gaustad, that doesn't mean moving Roy yesterday was the wrong move. I feel like you brushed over that question still though. If hurting the team for the next 20 games in order to help them more once the summer rolls around, is that really such a bad thing?
... Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 If we have any chance of landing Parise, Stafford is going nowhere. Very good point, if obtaining Parise is realistic. Not saying that it's not realistic, but I haven't seen a scenario yet that makes it likely.
Robviously Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I feel like you brushed over that question still though. If hurting the team for the next 20 games in order to help them more once the summer rolls around, is that really such a bad thing? I am totally fine with hurting the team over the next 20 games if it helps in the long run. I was trying to make that point but I guess I wasn't clear. And I'm willing to make trades that set us back for the rest of this season and help us later even if they aren't as lopsided as the Gaustad trade. In this case, Roy for a pick and a prospect. I would have been shopping Roy for a high-end prospect though. I don't think it would have been impossible to pull off a deal like that.
LabattBlue Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 it will still say the sabres are SOFT.... it will also say by trading away Gaustad & Kassian....the sabres got SOFTER....and will stay that way. Wait a minute. Did a new rule go into effect that states your roster at the deadline is the same one you must start the next season with?
... Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 Very good point, if obtaining Parise is realistic. Not saying that it's not realistic, but I haven't seen a scenario yet that makes it likely. Quoting myself because thought occurred to me to go look and see how big Parise is: 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m) Weight 195 lb Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...anyone know what kind of a physical game he brings? I can't say I do. They may need to dump Roy AND Gerbe to fit him in.
LastPommerFan Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 Compare the league leader, with those players, and Zack Kassian, and let us know what the "hits per minute ice time played" are. Sabres are 30th in the league in "hits" at 1111, Boston is 25th with 1221, this stat is useless.
I am Defecting Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 Darcy has stood apart from the previous ownership regime, with his moves this year and last, in my opinion. Losing Drury and Briere, obviously, and more recently Tallinder and Lydman, had me thinking that Darcy had a skewed sense of reality - that he put more value in potential youth players than established productive players. Now, with what I've heard from Pegula and Black on WGR, saying his hands were tied, back then, financially, I've been willing, even before these awesome moves, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Back then, it was finances first, and now it's hockey first. The scouting staff has about doubled, and the Sabres were already good at drafting. It will take more than a year for this change to prove its worth. Props to Promo the Robot with my first post.
darksabre Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 Darcy has stood apart from the previous ownership regime, with his moves this year and last, in my opinion. Losing Drury and Briere, obviously, and more recently Tallinder and Lydman, had me thinking that Darcy had a skewed sense of reality - that he put more value in potential youth players than established productive players. Now, with what I've heard from Pegula and Black on WGR, saying his hands were tied, back then, financially, I've been willing, even before these awesome moves, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Back then, it was finances first, and now it's hockey first. The scouting staff has about doubled, and the Sabres were already good at drafting. It will take more than a year for this change to prove its worth. Props to Promo the Robot with my first post. First off, welcome to the board. Second, nice post. Third, we all very much appreciate a new poster who actually sets an avatar. :thumbsup:
ROC Sabres Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 First off, welcome to the board. Second, nice post. Third, we all very much appreciate a new poster who actually sets an avatar. :thumbsup: So what are you trying to say... Wait. I'm not new. Anyways, just read Jeremy Whites "blog???" about the picks we have http://wgr550.com/WHITE---Is-it-getting-drafty-in-here-/12400630 Pretty interesting the how we stocked piled the picks in the first two rounds and how easily we "could" move into the top 10 twice with both sets of 1st and 2nd round picks. Not saying we should sell off both to get into the top 10 but I do like the idea of selling a pair of them off and getting in there to get another player that can be brought up right away.
X. Benedict Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 Trading Roy yesterday would mean ditching two alternate captains at once, a pretty good indication that the status quo is over. I think the team still needs more significant changes to move forward. My thinking on Roy. If he's your #1 center - you might have a bad team. If he's your #2 center- you might have a good team. If he's your #3 center - you might have a great team. Any center that can put up 60 pts and play all units is worth a ton in this era. I don't think he'll be going anywhere without a center coming back.
nfreeman Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 After watching them get a first in the Gaustad deal, I'd think it's a safe bet that they want at least that, as well as someone who can immediately step into the roster in return for Roy. That's a hard thing to find at the deadline. Teams just don't want to move too much as they're making a push for the playoffs/cup. You're far more likely to find that return in the summer. I guess the real question is whether or not it is greedy to want that NHL ready guy in return for Roy. You're probably right about the bolded part. However, IMHO this shouldn't have been the required return. I would have been quite happy with a #1 and a good forward prospect for Roy. The cap space is a significant part of the equation, as are the intangibles: the message to the rest of the team regarding accountability, bringing up a young, hungry, bigger kid to fill his slot, etc. Darcy has stood apart from the previous ownership regime, with his moves this year and last, in my opinion. Losing Drury and Briere, obviously, and more recently Tallinder and Lydman, had me thinking that Darcy had a skewed sense of reality - that he put more value in potential youth players than established productive players. Now, with what I've heard from Pegula and Black on WGR, saying his hands were tied, back then, financially, I've been willing, even before these awesome moves, to give him the benefit of the doubt. Back then, it was finances first, and now it's hockey first. The scouting staff has about doubled, and the Sabres were already good at drafting. It will take more than a year for this change to prove its worth. Props to Promo the Robot with my first post. Welcome to the board! Keep 'em coming.
Robviously Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 My thinking on Roy. If he's your #1 center - you might have a bad team. If he's your #2 center- you might have a good team. If he's your #3 center - you might have a great team. Any center that can put up 60 pts and play all units is worth a ton in this era. I don't think he'll be going anywhere without a center coming back. If we'd traded him for a 1st round pick, we'd have the option of trading that pick for a center this summer. Or we could have traded him for a center prospect yesterday. It's really time for he and the team to part ways. The Sabres were "close" to moving him last summer and obviously were trying to move him again yesterday but didn't get a deal they liked. The Sabres are in a weird situation now where they're relying on a guy that they're perpetually trying to get rid of. Plus, I don't think we're re-signing him after next year so his time with the team is already limited. I think they should find a way to get the post-Derek Roy Era started.
LastPommerFan Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 My thinking on Roy. If he's your #1 center - you might have a bad team. If he's your #2 center- you might have a good team. If he's your #3 center - you might have a great team. Any center that can put up 60 pts and play all units is worth a ton in this era. I don't think he'll be going anywhere without a center coming back. I agree, it would have to be a double change of scenery trade. Another highly talented center (which Roy has proven to be, work ethic questions aside) who is having trouble in his current team/role. So you're not gonna get another player at the top of his game. You're going to get another project.
shrader Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I am totally fine with hurting the team over the next 20 games if it helps in the long run. I was trying to make that point but I guess I wasn't clear. And I'm willing to make trades that set us back for the rest of this season and help us later even if they aren't as lopsided as the Gaustad trade. In this case, Roy for a pick and a prospect. I would have been shopping Roy for a high-end prospect though. I don't think it would have been impossible to pull off a deal like that. I think that was exactly what they were looking for if they moved him. High end and NHL ready.
Robviously Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I think that was exactly what they were looking for if they moved him. High end and NHL ready. I wasn't as concerned with NHL ready. A high end prospect that's still a year away (e.g. Quenton Howden from the Panthers) would have been fine with me.
I am Defecting Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 If we truly could have had a 1st for Roy, which I haven't heard anywhere but this board (a complete hypothetical), then I would have taken the first and parlayed that into another center, though draft or trade, hoping that Adam would come good next year, and the center prospect would develop. I'm only half-heartedly posting this though, because it's just fantasy land to begin with. Group Think says that we should ditch Roy for nothing. I'm tired of it. They think he's worth nothing and we get nothing in return, yet they are bezerk about it.
X. Benedict Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I wasn't as concerned with NHL ready. A high end prospect that's still a year away (e.g. Quenton Howden from the Panthers) would have been fine with me. I like Howden. I would have been happier with Nick Bjujstad - - -panthers have some nice prospects.
Robviously Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I like Howden. I would have been happier with Nick Bjujstad - - -panthers have some nice prospects. Panthers are loaded. I really like Drew Shore too, even if his ceiling is either no.2 center or above-average no.3 center. Plus he's wrapping up his college career so he can't be too far from the NHL. I really thought the Panthers were a great trade partner for us. I wonder if we were talking to them and how close we got to accomplishing anything.
MattPie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if changing my password (not on here) to 'Fire Regier!' two weeks ago was premature.
nobody Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if changing my password (not on here) to 'Fire Regier!' two weeks ago was premature. That may have been the butterfly that allowed him to make the moves.
MattPie Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 That may have been the butterfly that allowed him to make the moves. Perhaps, the 'other' account got changed to 'Are you L1st3ning?'.
nobody Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 If we have any chance of landing Parise, Stafford is going nowhere. In the Darcy presser he mentioned how Stafford falls between the two core groups (maybe he said he can fit into either group.)
lalalalalaFontaine Posted February 28, 2012 Report Posted February 28, 2012 i'm still not on board with darcy, and it may take a couple years, obviously, to determine how good/bad these trades will be. the core of the team is still rotten and steps need to be taken to righten the ship. whether it be taking a step or two backwards, oh well. one thing is for sure, the next 20 games could potentially be uglier than everyone can imagine. hearing miller's quotes today makes me think he'll be more of a head case than he has been. and we REALLY have nobody to muck it up in the corners or stand in front of the net that plays 15+ minutes a game. i think our twirps could regress without having bigger bodies at their side. the little guys play a lot bigger with bigger bodies on their side. might be a good time to get foligno up here and get some more nhl experience
LTS Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Here's what I know right now... Yesterday Darcy made two trades that every NHL analyst was sure wasn't going to happen. No one thought anyone would give up a first round pick for Gaustad and it happened (you can say whatever you want about giving the 4th pick in 2013). He also had the courage to move Kassian. First, Kassian is NEVER going to be the answer to Lucic.. the answer to Lucic is Lucic. I don't know how many players you find that are going to take him on consistently. Pure fighters are doing to get schooled by skating and big skaters are going to get pounded. Lucic is a great player to have on your roster. He's also not unstoppable. The last two games against the Bruins I've barely even noticed him on the ice other than when he was being annoyed by the Sabres mosquitoes. Whatever the reason, he was a non-factor. We'll see if it continues. Second, after Kassian's initial call up where he started red hot, he cooled fast. Personally I think the verdict went out on him when the Sabres had a 3-1 and he froze with the puck and they didn't even get a shot. This led to a goal the other way IIRC. This goes along with the perception that he's not ready to work his butt off (even though he said he would not get sent back down). I think he will be a good player and I think the Canucks will keep him for awhile but the Sabres needed a C and they got one that comes with a lot of reported upside. What happens from there is anyone's guess. My perception of Darcy is changing. Given what moved yesterday it appears that more GM's are holding fast to their teams and are not looking to make those deadline deals. It happens, but not in spades. I thought Leopold would move but apparently not. His name never came up. I'll be sold on Darcy when we have a team that is riding at the top of the standings, is scoring well, defending well, and doesn't look like a team holding on for dear life. It may end up being that Ruff is the problem, it may end up being that changes make things better. All I know is that I'm not trashing DR today. Now.. let's see what happens for the rest of the season and in the off season.
darksabre Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Here's what I know right now... Yesterday Darcy made two trades that every NHL analyst was sure wasn't going to happen. No one thought anyone would give up a first round pick for Gaustad and it happened (you can say whatever you want about giving the 4th pick in 2013). He also had the courage to move Kassian. First, Kassian is NEVER going to be the answer to Lucic.. the answer to Lucic is Lucic. I don't know how many players you find that are going to take him on consistently. Pure fighters are doing to get schooled by skating and big skaters are going to get pounded. Lucic is a great player to have on your roster. He's also not unstoppable. The last two games against the Bruins I've barely even noticed him on the ice other than when he was being annoyed by the Sabres mosquitoes. Whatever the reason, he was a non-factor. We'll see if it continues. Second, after Kassian's initial call up where he started red hot, he cooled fast. Personally I think the verdict went out on him when the Sabres had a 3-1 and he froze with the puck and they didn't even get a shot. This led to a goal the other way IIRC. This goes along with the perception that he's not ready to work his butt off (even though he said he would not get sent back down). I think he will be a good player and I think the Canucks will keep him for awhile but the Sabres needed a C and they got one that comes with a lot of reported upside. What happens from there is anyone's guess. My perception of Darcy is changing. Given what moved yesterday it appears that more GM's are holding fast to their teams and are not looking to make those deadline deals. It happens, but not in spades. I thought Leopold would move but apparently not. His name never came up. I'll be sold on Darcy when we have a team that is riding at the top of the standings, is scoring well, defending well, and doesn't look like a team holding on for dear life. It may end up being that Ruff is the problem, it may end up being that changes make things better. All I know is that I'm not trashing DR today. Now.. let's see what happens for the rest of the season and in the off season. "Let's see what happens" is for p*ssies! You're part of the problem! You and the rest of the apathetic fanbase that is HAPPY with yesterday. You're such a moron! How could you POSSIBLY be happy with the FILTH that occurred yesterday? The Sabres are smaller and their vaginas are as poundable as ever! DARCY REGIER IS RUINING THE SABRES.
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