Has your opinion of Darcy changed?

[Taro T]

Whatever his plan originally was, it changed somewhere along the lines. He started out going towards that build he had in Anaheim and he has moved away from that with the current group.

What, you mean Timmy and the little General AREN'T hulking 210 lb power forwards? ;)

[Mark from Albany]

Nope...Distraction trades... Gaustad and a 4th for a 1st and Kassian for a small young center ...big deal.. we can all wait five years to see if the trade and the 1st work.. Sulzer.. another AHL defenseman? a 1st..more ahl fodder. Mags essentially goes for nothing..... I guess it was good for Kassian that he gets to escape Ruff's influence. Hope his trade turns out to be something like the Yankees decision to trade Ian Kennedy.

 

Miller, Pom , Vanek , Reghr and Hoff should be begging to go before next year , if they are smart. This is going to be another ten year rebuilding process.They will all be old and grey before they get another shot at the cup.

 

Ten years! Oh, no! I'll be 62 by then!

[Derrico]

Not to get too far off topic but the Leaf media is blowing up over this collapse. Other than goaltending, the main complaint has been the lack of production (invisible) third line led by the Tin Man. They say the line has an 11 million dollar cap hit but don't produce anything. Atleast Darcy got one thing right....eventually.

[rickshaw]

Occam's razor with a comfort strip corollary----

 

I don't underestimate Gragnani's value either. Having depth on the point is important for the playoffs.

D men go down in the playoffs. We'll probably see MAGs on TV in 6 weeks. If a D man goes down it won't blow up

Vancouver's PP.

 

Oh you'll see Grags for sure. Depending on who they play, he will get time. Rome and gulp, Alberts, are bigger and grittier but they can't play each and every game. They just aren't good enough. The bottom dmen will be in and out of the lineup. And if/when Ballard gets back they have even more depth. Last year their D got beat up. You can never have enought D (see Sabres vs Carolina)

[X. Benedict]

Not to get too far off topic but the Leaf media is blowing up over this collapse. Other than goaltending, the main complaint has been the lack of production (invisible) third line led by the Tin Man. They say the line has an 11 million dollar cap hit but don't produce anything. Atleast Darcy got one thing right....eventually.

Timmy is the least of their problems. Poor team D, and just dumb defensive play from the defense-men.

 

And then there is the trash heap of recent history that is the Toronto net....Pogge, Rancine, Roycroft, Clemmensen, Tellquist, Toskala,

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You must have missed the memo: Ruff hates toughness and the Sabres were actively shopping Kassian for months because his toughness challenged the status quo of softness, and any future tough Sabres will follow on that path of being shipped off.

actually, there was some report that Kass was being very quietly shopped since December

 

I think Rob Ray said that....good point

 

I still don't understand if Chz knows this to be the chain of events or she was just pontificating. If both teams valued the #20something pick over Hodgson, then I would temper any expectations that he is some sort of #1 center. I think his game and upside are similar to Roy....and given Darcy's past plans, I would bet they are planning on keeping Roy next year and letting him walk in FA with the hope Hodgson is his replacement. I don't disagree that this may be a prudent plan. Even with both of them on the roster, you still don't have a #1 center unless Hodgson explodes a few years from now.

[X. Benedict]

I think Rob Ray said that....good point

 

I still don't understand if Chz knows this to be the chain of events or she was just pontificating. If both teams valued the #20something pick over Hodgson, then I would temper any expectations that he is some sort of #1 center. I think his game and upside are similar to Roy....and given Darcy's past plans, I would bet they are planning on keeping Roy next year and letting him walk in FA with the hope Hodgson is his replacement. I don't disagree that this may be a prudent plan. Even with both of them on the roster, you still don't have a #1 center unless Hodgson explodes a few years from now.

 

I don't see any reason to get rid of Roy unless he buys someone better at Center.

[LastPommerFan]

I think Rob Ray said that....good point

 

I still don't understand if Chz knows this to be the chain of events or she was just pontificating. If both teams valued the #20something pick over Hodgson, then I would temper any expectations that he is some sort of #1 center. I think his game and upside are similar to Roy....and given Darcy's past plans, I would bet they are planning on keeping Roy next year and letting him walk in FA with the hope Hodgson is his replacement. I don't disagree that this may be a prudent plan. Even with both of them on the roster, you still don't have a #1 center unless Hodgson explodes a few years from now.

 

Trade at the deadline?

[TrueBlueGED]

actually, there was some report that Kass was being very quietly shopped since December

I think Rob Ray said that....good point

 

I feel like my point has fallen on deaf ears. I wasn't challenging the idea that he was shopped. I was pointing out how absurd it is to say he was shopped because he was too tough for the status quo, and they shipped him out for the express purpose of remaining soft, since you know, Ruff hates toughness.

[Claude_Verret]

I think Rob Ray said that....good point I still don't understand if Chz knows this to be the chain of events or she was just pontificating. If both teams valued the #20something pick over Hodgson, then I would temper any expectations that he is some sort of #1 center. I think his game and upside are similar to Roy....and given Darcy's past plans, I would bet they are planning on keeping Roy next year and letting him walk in FA with the hope Hodgson is his replacement. I don't disagree that this may be a prudent plan. Even with both of them on the roster, you still don't have a #1 center unless Hodgson explodes a few years from now.

 

Lindy said they fully expect Hodgson to become a true #1.

 

"We need somebody that can grow and be a No. 1 centerman," coach Lindy Ruff said. "We really feel he can be that guy."

[X. Benedict]

I feel like my point has fallen on deaf ears. I wasn't challenging the idea that he was shopped. I was pointing out how absurd it is to say he was shopped because he was too tough for the status quo, and they shipped him out for the express purpose of remaining soft, since you know, Ruff hates toughness.

Ruff putts Kaleta on the ice last night before for the final horn after Beauchim chirps him. He could have put Pommer out there.

 

Fights bring a team together. Especially on a roady. Ruff was as responsible for those scuffles as anyone.

[Derrico]

Timmy is the least of their problems. Poor team D, and just dumb defensive play from the defense-men.

 

And then there is the trash heap of recent history that is the Toronto net....Pogge, Rancine, Roycroft, Clemmensen, Tellquist, Toskala,

 

Goaltending has been the number 1 problem, no question. However, this offseason Burke is going to have to make some changes to this team and Tim's 4.75 million dollar contract is not helping the situation. They've got 13 million in cap space, but have to replace Grabovski's production, sign a couple guys and find that franchise goaltender.

[TrueBlueGED]

Ruff putts Kaleta on the ice last night before for the final horn after Beauchim chirps him. He could have put Pommer out there.

 

Fights bring a team together. Especially on a roady. Ruff was as responsible for those scuffles as anyone.

 

Exactly. The very notion that Ruff hates toughness is patently absurd. Yet it doesn't stop some people from thinking it, and even suggesting that Kassian could have been shipped off because he was too tough, and future Sabres tough guys could be traded as well.

 

Perhaps my sarcasm the last few posts was lost due to lack of proper emoticons.

[Weave]

Exactly. The very notion that Ruff hates toughness is patently absurd. Yet it doesn't stop some people from thinking it, and even suggesting that Kassian could have been shipped off because he was too tough, and future Sabres tough guys could be traded as well.

 

Perhaps my sarcasm the last few posts was lost due to lack of proper emoticons.

 

It wasn't lost on me. I didn't respond in good part because I assumed sarcasm and therefore a response wasn't necessary.

 

I will say that my impression of GoDD's point isn't that Ruff hates toughness, rather he ends up beating down the personality that makes one tough in order to continue to be viewed as the obvious alpha in the room. And the result is non-toughness on the ice. I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment but I could see where one could have it. I suppose I shouldn't speak for GoDD as this is my opinion of his POV, he may very well be coming from a diffeent angle.

[shrader]

Timmy is the least of their problems. Poor team D, and just dumb defensive play from the defense-men.

 

And then there is the trash heap of recent history that is the Toronto net....Pogge, Rancine, Roycroft, Clemmensen, Tellquist, Toskala,

 

It really has to make you wonder about Allaire (not that he was there for each of those guys).

[spndnchz]

Ruff putts Kaleta on the ice last night before for the final horn after Beauchim chirps him. He could have put Pommer out there.

 

Fights bring a team together. Especially on a roady. Ruff was as responsible for those scuffles as anyone.

 

I remember this now from last night (game seemed like a dream I was so tired). At the time I was like "wait, what's Kaleta hoping over the boards so fast for?"

[HopefulFuture]

After today, I think it safe to say that Darcy knows how to negotiate. Regardless of what some pinheads may think, we stole Hodgson from the Canucks. Kassian showed little progress this year and can be easily replaced. And getting a FIRST rounder for Gaustad is just ridiculous.

 

I think Darcy can and will field a championship caliber team. Ruff should be on a much shorter leash, IMO.

 

Wait, wat?

 

You can't honestly believe this, can you?

We stole nothing from Vancouver, we gave and received.

Hodgson was burried on the 3rd line in Vancouver, you'll change your tune when you see how his numbers roll in a 1st/2nd line scoring center role.

He was no more or less a talent then Kassian. An unknown quantity at this point, only time will tell.

 

The first rounder won't mean anything if Regier brainfarts and doesn't get a decent player with it or move up in the 1st round by packaging it.

[korab rules]

Exactly. The very notion that Ruff hates toughness is patently absurd. Yet it doesn't stop some people from thinking it, and even suggesting that Kassian could have been shipped off because he was too tough, and future Sabres tough guys could be traded as well.

 

Perhaps my sarcasm the last few posts was lost due to lack of proper emoticons.

Not at all. My post wasn't meant to contradict your sarcasm in any way. The concept is absurd, but people with an agenda will continue to raise it.

 

Ruff putts Kaleta on the ice last night before for the final horn after Beauchim chirps him. He could have put Pommer out there.

 

Fights bring a team together. Especially on a roady. Ruff was as responsible for those scuffles as anyone.

I remember this now from last night (game seemed like a dream I was so tired). At the time I was like "wait, what's Kaleta hoping over the boards so fast for?"

Responsible for it? Hardly. Reacting to the Ducks picking two fights in the last 20 seconds? Certainly.

 

It was a good job of coaching - certainly much better than sylvester the cat a few years back.

[X. Benedict]

I remember this now from last night (game seemed like a dream I was so tired). At the time I was like "wait, what's Kaleta hoping over the boards so fast for?"

 

The cartoon thinking bubble over Lindy's head........."Young team, controlled riot conditions will bond these boys"

 

When Patty was getting chirped I had a feeling Lindy would send him over.

[LTS]

The cartoon thinking bubble over Lindy's head........."Young team, controlled riot conditions will bond these boys"

 

When Patty was getting chirped I had a feeling Lindy would send him over.

 

Well, it's easier to do that and remain smug when there's 12 seconds left and your team just shut out the other team. Plus, Kaleta clearly is not a defensive liability given his time on the PK.

 

I might have missed Beauchemin on the ice for the last 12 seconds... only Ryan and Brookbank really did anything. Did he chirp at Kaleta and then jump back over the boards? Hah.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

It wasn't lost on me. I didn't respond in good part because I assumed sarcasm and therefore a response wasn't necessary.

 

I will say that my impression of GoDD's point isn't that Ruff hates toughness, rather he ends up beating down the personality that makes one tough in order to continue to be viewed as the obvious alpha in the room. And the result is non-toughness on the ice. I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment but I could see where one could have it. I suppose I shouldn't speak for GoDD as this is my opinion of his POV, he may very well be coming from a diffeent angle.

 

No you are bang on.

 

It's a 4 step problem.

 

1) Darcy values skill forwards and puck moving defensemen. He gutted the team of multiple, talented gritty forwards in one felt swoop in '06 with Dumont, Grier and Pyatt. He has failed to bring in a top 9 forward with grit this entire time, save a few dud trade deadline deals who were scratched and sent on their way after a month. He drafted Kassian and Foligno, and the best shot is already gone.

 

2) Any big bodied forward with Ruff has either failed to progress in the physical game (Stafford), failed when brought in (Torres, Bernier), or regressed from their initial showing (Gaustad). Gaustad of the past 3 weeks was Gaustad of the first few years until he was told defense and skating first. If you look at point #1, there hasn't been much of a sample size, but according to everyone involved, Lindy has a huge say in how the roster is put together. It was repeated multiple times last week.

 

3) Lindy values sound positional hockey and retreat on defense first over dump and chase, take a big hit if it is there slightly out of your coverage area, or risk a penalty. He is so risk adverse that I feel that is why we see so many forwards peel off potential hits or avoiding body contact. They don't want to get yelled at for being caught in transition or getting a penalty for contact.

 

4) Ruff does show a tendency to want to be "the man". People focus on this and then embellish "Lindy Hates Toughness..blah..blah..blah." Well, if you look at the first 3 points, this team has learned not to be tough. The system punishes you for playing that way, even though Lindy may not have that as his stated goal. He doesn't necessarily hate toughness, but it is not encouraged in any way. I think that is why Lucic happened. It was so engrained in these guys not to do something to risk hurting the team, that the natural instinct of any hockey player from 5-85 didn't kick in. They guy absolutely freight-trained your all-world goalie. If that happened to Biron, Biron would have probably been suspended for taking his stick to someone's head like an ax.

 

Lindy also has a history of riding his young guys hard. That is pretty well known. A lot of coaches do, but you go back to that tape of him with Adam and Kassian. It caused such a huge blowout here that I boogied out of town. Well? All I heard this week was how the "concept of Kassian" never came about. LOOK AT THE TAPE! Kassian was scolded for making a physical play on a guy close in for being at risk of a penalty. He tried arguing his case and Lindy started playing whack-a-mole with Adam to engrain his point. Even afterwards Kassian was still trying to make his case to Adams and Adams is all "yeaaaah...but".

 

OK....Zack got the message. Then everyone jumps on the guy. Supposedly Ruff wanted him to play more physical when here lately. Well....how do you rectify the mixed messages? You expect a 20 year old who is looking not to piss off the coach so he can get shifts in the NHL to figure out what the heck he is being told to do in that case?

 

Lindy isn't some pacifist tyrant, but everything about the way he runs his ship channels a player to develop that way. That has always been my gripe. He isn't an invalid of a coach. I just think that what we have seen over the years from this team shows a lack of results in such an important aspect of the game, that it becomes the weakest link and limits your chances of ever reaching the top. When you combine that with the type of player Darcy values, that exacta leads me to believe the Sabres can never win it all with the combo in charge.

[X. Benedict]

Well, it's easier to do that and remain smug when there's 12 seconds left and your team just shut out the other team. Plus, Kaleta clearly is not a defensive liability given his time on the PK.

 

I might have missed Beauchemin on the ice for the last 12 seconds... only Ryan and Brookbank really did anything. Did he chirp at Kaleta and then jump back over the boards? Hah.

Beauchemin went off the ice...and then I think Lindy sent Kaleta over.....Boudreau had last change....so who knows what was said but Patty had more than one guy pissed. :lol:

[qwksndmonster]

Wait, wat?

 

You can't honestly believe this, can you?

We stole nothing from Vancouver, we gave and received.

Hodgson was burried on the 3rd line in Vancouver, you'll change your tune when you see how his numbers roll in a 1st/2nd line scoring center role.

He was no more or less a talent then Kassian. An unknown quantity at this point, only time will tell.

 

The first rounder won't mean anything if Regier brainfarts and doesn't get a decent player with it or move up in the 1st round by packaging it.

Hodgson is certainly a little further along in his development than Kassian, too. We got an NHL ready center prospect for our power forward prospect who still has a little work to do.

[TheChimp]

No you are bang on.

 

It's a 4 step problem.

 

1) Darcy values skill forwards and puck moving defensemen. He gutted the team of multiple, talented gritty forwards in one felt swoop in '06 with Dumont, Grier and Pyatt. He has failed to bring in a top 9 forward with grit this entire time, save a few dud trade deadline deals who were scratched and sent on their way after a month. He drafted Kassian and Foligno, and the best shot is already gone.

 

2) Any big bodied forward with Ruff has either failed to progress in the physical game (Stafford), failed when brought in (Torres, Bernier), or regressed from their initial showing (Gaustad). Gaustad of the past 3 weeks was Gaustad of the first few years until he was told defense and skating first. If you look at point #1, there hasn't been much of a sample size, but according to everyone involved, Lindy has a huge say in how the roster is put together. It was repeated multiple times last week.

 

3) Lindy values sound positional hockey and retreat on defense first over dump and chase, take a big hit if it is there slightly out of your coverage area, or risk a penalty. He is so risk adverse that I feel that is why we see so many forwards peel off potential hits or avoiding body contact. They don't want to get yelled at for being caught in transition or getting a penalty for contact.

 

4) Ruff does show a tendency to want to be "the man". People focus on this and then embellish "Lindy Hates Toughness..blah..blah..blah." Well, if you look at the first 3 points, this team has learned not to be tough. The system punishes you for playing that way, even though Lindy may not have that as his stated goal. He doesn't necessarily hate toughness, but it is not encouraged in any way. I think that is why Lucic happened. It was so engrained in these guys not to do something to risk hurting the team, that the natural instinct of any hockey player from 5-85 didn't kick in. They guy absolutely freight-trained your all-world goalie. If that happened to Biron, Biron would have probably been suspended for taking his stick to someone's head like an ax.

 

Lindy also has a history of riding his young guys hard. That is pretty well known. A lot of coaches do, but you go back to that tape of him with Adam and Kassian. It caused such a huge blowout here that I boogied out of town. Well? All I heard this week was how the "concept of Kassian" never came about. LOOK AT THE TAPE! Kassian was scolded for making a physical play on a guy close in for being at risk of a penalty. He tried arguing his case and Lindy started playing whack-a-mole with Adam to engrain his point. Even afterwards Kassian was still trying to make his case to Adams and Adams is all "yeaaaah...but".

 

OK....Zack got the message. Then everyone jumps on the guy. Supposedly Ruff wanted him to play more physical when here lately. Well....how do you rectify the mixed messages? You expect a 20 year old who is looking not to piss off the coach so he can get shifts in the NHL to figure out what the heck he is being told to do in that case?

 

Lindy isn't some pacifist tyrant, but everything about the way he runs his ship channels a player to develop that way. That has always been my gripe. He isn't an invalid of a coach. I just think that what we have seen over the years from this team shows a lack of results in such an important aspect of the game, that it becomes the weakest link and limits your chances of ever reaching the top. When you combine that with the type of player Darcy values, that exacta leads me to believe the Sabres can never win it all with the combo in charge.

Someone get me a frame for this post. :worthy:

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No you are bang on.

 

It's a 4 step problem.

 

1) Darcy values skill forwards and puck moving defensemen. He gutted the team of multiple, talented gritty forwards in one felt swoop in '06 with Dumont, Grier and Pyatt. He has failed to bring in a top 9 forward with grit this entire time, save a few dud trade deadline deals who were scratched and sent on their way after a month. He drafted Kassian and Foligno, and the best shot is already gone.

 

2) Any big bodied forward with Ruff has either failed to progress in the physical game (Stafford), failed when brought in (Torres, Bernier), or regressed from their initial showing (Gaustad). Gaustad of the past 3 weeks was Gaustad of the first few years until he was told defense and skating first. If you look at point #1, there hasn't been much of a sample size, but according to everyone involved, Lindy has a huge say in how the roster is put together. It was repeated multiple times last week.

 

3) Lindy values sound positional hockey and retreat on defense first over dump and chase, take a big hit if it is there slightly out of your coverage area, or risk a penalty. He is so risk adverse that I feel that is why we see so many forwards peel off potential hits or avoiding body contact. They don't want to get yelled at for being caught in transition or getting a penalty for contact.

 

4) Ruff does show a tendency to want to be "the man". People focus on this and then embellish "Lindy Hates Toughness..blah..blah..blah." Well, if you look at the first 3 points, this team has learned not to be tough. The system punishes you for playing that way, even though Lindy may not have that as his stated goal. He doesn't necessarily hate toughness, but it is not encouraged in any way. I think that is why Lucic happened. It was so engrained in these guys not to do something to risk hurting the team, that the natural instinct of any hockey player from 5-85 didn't kick in. They guy absolutely freight-trained your all-world goalie. If that happened to Biron, Biron would have probably been suspended for taking his stick to someone's head like an ax.

 

Lindy also has a history of riding his young guys hard. That is pretty well known. A lot of coaches do, but you go back to that tape of him with Adam and Kassian. It caused such a huge blowout here that I boogied out of town. Well? All I heard this week was how the "concept of Kassian" never came about. LOOK AT THE TAPE! Kassian was scolded for making a physical play on a guy close in for being at risk of a penalty. He tried arguing his case and Lindy started playing whack-a-mole with Adam to engrain his point. Even afterwards Kassian was still trying to make his case to Adams and Adams is all "yeaaaah...but".

 

OK....Zack got the message. Then everyone jumps on the guy. Supposedly Ruff wanted him to play more physical when here lately. Well....how do you rectify the mixed messages? You expect a 20 year old who is looking not to piss off the coach so he can get shifts in the NHL to figure out what the heck he is being told to do in that case?

 

Lindy isn't some pacifist tyrant, but everything about the way he runs his ship channels a player to develop that way. That has always been my gripe. He isn't an invalid of a coach. I just think that what we have seen over the years from this team shows a lack of results in such an important aspect of the game, that it becomes the weakest link and limits your chances of ever reaching the top. When you combine that with the type of player Darcy values, that exacta leads me to believe the Sabres can never win it all with the combo in charge.

 

I have stated it before, but that is exactly what I took from watching that video.