Has your opinion of Darcy changed?

[spndnchz]

According to Capgeek they have just a hair over $1M cap space now so he would've fit but there would be no breathing room. Also, I count 51 contracts for Van. I thought the limit was 50?

yes

Chz -- is your rendition of events a theory or is it what you believe to be the facts based on credible information? If the latter, then GoDD raises a very valid and disturbing question.

yes

Apparently they had to move him. Reports are that he wanted out. Gillis never denied this and the way he answered the question imo left more questions than answers.

yes

Darcy just said the discussions were going on for days before the deadline.

yes?

Problem with this is that Vancouver decided on Saturday to move Hodgson in an attempt to acquire some grit and started dicussions then as well as the fact that after Gaustad was traded they didn't need to shed any payroll.

yes

 

Things move quickly. But you'll remember that the first Goose trade fell through so this wasn't the case early on.

[Kristian]

The Lucic incident is a small part of what was wrong with the sabres this year, goal scoring depth was a much bigger problem IMO.

 

The incident as an isolated event, yes

 

However, it showcased the Sabres for what they are in terms of toughness, or lack thereof, not just to the rest of the league, but also to the Sabres roster themselves.

 

I think a lot of guys on the squad started playing a lot more scared after Lucic creamed Miller, and nobody responded.

 

Could this a reason scoring became a problem immediately following the hit?

[Eleven]

yes

 

yes

 

yes

 

yes?

 

yes

 

 

It was good for me, too.

[RazielSabre]

The incident as an isolated event, yes

 

However, it showcased the Sabres for what they are in terms of toughness, or lack thereof, not just to the rest of the league, but also to the Sabres roster themselves.

 

I think a lot of guys on the squad started playing a lot more scared after Lucic creamed Miller, and nobody responded.

 

Could this a reason scoring became a problem immediately following the hit?

I do agree with this. The Sabres lost confidence, the bubble had been popped and they struggled to get over it.

[deluca67]

The incident as an isolated event, yes

 

However, it showcased the Sabres for what they are in terms of toughness, or lack thereof, not just to the rest of the league, but also to the Sabres roster themselves.

 

I think a lot of guys on the squad started playing a lot more scared after Lucic creamed Miller, and nobody responded.

 

Could this a reason scoring became a problem immediately following the hit?

They were definitely not the same team after the incident.

 

According to Paul Hamilton, that incident is still the #1 ammo for trash talk on the ice for opponents. Every player in the league knows what happened, and the Sabres get reminded of it every night.

[korab rules]

yes

 

yes

 

yes

 

yes?

 

yes

 

Things move quickly. But you'll remember that the first Goose trade fell through so this wasn't the case early on.

Ted Black said on GR this morning that trade talks for Hodgson intensified Sunday.

[nfreeman]

Chz -- is your rendition of events a theory or is it what you believe to be the facts based on credible information? If the latter, then GoDD raises a very valid and disturbing question.

yes

 

yes

 

yes

 

yes?

 

yes

 

Things move quickly. But you'll remember that the first Goose trade fell through so this wasn't the case early on.

 

Huh?

[spndnchz]

 

Huh?

 

I'm not sure what's so disturbing about it. The coach and Hodgson didn't get along it seems (ice time mostly), they are deep at center and weren't going to use him as much as Hodgson thought/wanted.

 

Preemptive: Hodgson will get plenty of ice time here so I don't see any issues with LR.

[bunomatic]

Apparently they had to move him. Reports are that he wanted out. Gillis never denied this and the way he answered the question imo left more questions than answers.

 

Not to flog a dead horse because it really doesn't matter to me if he did ask for a trade but in an article in the Vancouver Sun today Rich Winter says something along the lines of Codys people met twice with canucks brass about an expanded roll and more ice time and then he was traded. Does it mean he asked for one,who knows? But it does leave the door open that he may have. So for others on here to catigorically deny it happened like they are in the know is quite funny. It might have.

[spndnchz]

Not to flog a dead horse because it really doesn't matter to me if he did ask for a trade but in an article in the Vancouver Sun today Rich Winter says something along the lines of Codys people met twice with canucks brass about an expanded roll and more ice time and then he was traded. Does it mean he asked for one,who knows? But it does leave the door open that he may have. So for others on here to catigorically deny it happened like they are in the know is quite funny. It might have.

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/21027-cody-hodgson-watch/page__view__findpost__p__369378

[Punch]

I'm not sure what's so disturbing about it. The coach and Hodgson didn't get along it seems (ice time mostly), they are deep at center and weren't going to use him as much as Hodgson thought/wanted.

 

Preemptive: Hodgson will get plenty of ice time here so I don't see any issues with LR.

 

Plus, what other asset could Vancouver really offer in exchange for Kassian that the Sabres would covet? There's no way they'd trade Kesler and I don't think the Sabres would be interested in draft picks for a prospect like Kass. Hodgson is the only valuable piece that they could realistically move at the trade deadline while keeping their Cup aspirations intact, IMHO.

[nfreeman]

I'm not sure what's so disturbing about it. The coach and Hodgson didn't get along it seems (ice time mostly), they are deep at center and weren't going to use him as much as Hodgson thought/wanted.

 

Preemptive: Hodgson will get plenty of ice time here so I don't see any issues with LR.

Plus, what other asset could Vancouver really offer in exchange for Kassian that the Sabres would covet? There's no way they'd trade Kesler and I don't think the Sabres would be interested in draft picks for a prospect like Kass. Hodgson is the only valuable piece that they could realistically move at the trade deadline while keeping their Cup aspirations intact, IMHO.

 

But this is exactly the question some of us are wrestling with. Chz's rendition of events makes it sound like Gillis asked for Kassian, DR asked for a 1st-rounder in return, and Gillis' counter was Hodgson. That sounds like both DR and Gillis preferred Vancouver's #1 (likely to be at the end of the first round) to Hodgson.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter now -- all that matters is how Hodger does here. But if Chz is right, it says something about how 2 GMs viewed Hodger's value relative to that of a low 1st-round pick.

[korab rules]

But this is exactly the question some of us are wrestling with. Chz's rendition of events makes it sound like Gillis asked for Kassian, DR asked for a 1st-rounder in return, and Gillis' counter was Hodgson. That sounds like both DR and Gillis preferred Vancouver's #1 (likely to be at the end of the first round) to Hodgson.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter now -- all that matters is how Hodger does here. But if Chz is right, it says something about how 2 GMs viewed Hodger's value relative to that of a low 1st-round pick.

Yes, and that view doesn't make any sense at all - I don't know if chz was being flip with her timeline or is serious, but I have to question its accuracy - especially when both Black and Regier are on record saying the negotiations were ongoing for days ahead of the deadline.

[X. Benedict]

I don't think there was any way Buffalo was giving up Kassian without a high quality center or center/prospect coming back.

 

Going back to the Brian Burke comments ...."Darcy is just one guy you can't deal with" ......(paraphrase)

 

 

Poile and Gilles didn't seem to have any trouble getting Darcy on the blower.

 

 

Nice deadline Burkie! :lol:

[SDS]

But this is exactly the question some of us are wrestling with. Chz's rendition of events makes it sound like Gillis asked for Kassian, DR asked for a 1st-rounder in return, and Gillis' counter was Hodgson. That sounds like both DR and Gillis preferred Vancouver's #1 (likely to be at the end of the first round) to Hodgson.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter now -- all that matters is how Hodger does here. But if Chz is right, it says something about how 2 GMs viewed Hodger's value relative to that of a low 1st-round pick.

 

In context, it doesn't say all that much (if true).

 

Vancouver has one 1st round draft pick. They had a ######-ton of top-notch centers... Supply and demand seem to be at play here. And, FWIW, I don't think Darcy just asked for a 1st rounder. Multiple sources have said that moving Hodgson talks started much earlier.

 

Also, you are going to make these kinds of judgments, then keep in mind it has been reported the Canucks told Burke Cody was not available - even for Luke Schenn.

[RazielSabre]

But this is exactly the question some of us are wrestling with. Chz's rendition of events makes it sound like Gillis asked for Kassian, DR asked for a 1st-rounder in return, and Gillis' counter was Hodgson. That sounds like both DR and Gillis preferred Vancouver's #1 (likely to be at the end of the first round) to Hodgson.

 

Of course, it doesn't really matter now -- all that matters is how Hodger does here. But if Chz is right, it says something about how 2 GMs viewed Hodger's value relative to that of a low 1st-round pick.

DR asked for a 1st rounder for Goose. I really doubt he asked for just that for Kass,

[nfreeman]

I don't think there was any way Buffalo was giving up Kassian without a high quality center or center/prospect coming back.

 

Going back to the Brian Burke comments ...."Darcy is just one guy you can't deal with" ......(paraphrase)

 

Poile and Gilles didn't seem to have any trouble getting Darcy on the blower.

 

Nice deadline Burkie! :lol:

 

I continue to think Burke is a good guy who likes talking to the media too much and is overrated as a GM.

 

As to your point -- I agree completely. Gillis and Poile are 2 well-respected GMs who evidently were able to work with DR. Meanwhile, Burke did zero while the Leafs continue to implode.

 

In context, it doesn't say all that much (if true).

 

Vancouver has one 1st round draft pick. They had a ######-ton of top-notch centers... Supply and demand seem to be at play here. And, FWIW, I don't think Darcy just asked for a 1st rounder. Multiple sources have said that moving Hodgson talks started much earlier.

 

Also, you are going to make these kinds of judgments, then keep in mind it has been reported the Canucks told Burke Cody was not available - even for Luke Schenn.

 

I don't dispute any of this. I was just trying to figure out how confident Chz was in her version of events -- or whether it was just a theory on what might have happened. NB that your post disputes a number of key points in her version.

[TrueBlueGED]

The idea that Vancouver was trying to trade Hodgson completely contradicts what was reported on NHL Network: that 1 team in the East had tried for days to get Hodgson, only to be told that he was absolutely not getting moved at the deadline. And for a guy who everybody thinks overvalues his players, Regier would accept a late 1st for the organization's best prospect? Right.

 

Occam's razor: Vancouver wanted Kassian. Buffalo wanted Hodgson in return. The deal got done.

[X. Benedict]

The idea that Vancouver was trying to trade Hodgson completely contradicts what was reported on NHL Network: that 1 team in the East had tried for days to get Hodgson, only to be told that he was absolutely not getting moved at the deadline. And for a guy who everybody thinks overvalues his players, Regier would accept a late 1st for the organization's best prospect? Right.

 

Occam's razor: Vancouver wanted Kassian. Buffalo wanted Hodgson in return. The deal got done.

Occam's razor with a comfort strip corollary----

 

I don't underestimate Gragnani's value either. Having depth on the point is important for the playoffs.

D men go down in the playoffs. We'll probably see MAGs on TV in 6 weeks. If a D man goes down it won't blow up

Vancouver's PP.

[nfreeman]

The idea that Vancouver was trying to trade Hodgson completely contradicts what was reported on NHL Network: that 1 team in the East had tried for days to get Hodgson, only to be told that he was absolutely not getting moved at the deadline. And for a guy who everybody thinks overvalues his players, Regier would accept a late 1st for the organization's best prospect? Right.

 

Occam's razor: Vancouver wanted Kassian. Buffalo wanted Hodgson in return. The deal got done.

Occam's razor with a comfort strip corollary----

 

I don't underestimate Gragnani's value either. Having depth on the point is important for the playoffs.

D men go down in the playoffs. We'll probably see MAGs on TV in 6 weeks. If a D man goes down it won't blow up

Vancouver's PP.

 

I agree with both of these, although it's quite possible that Vancouver wasn't interested in trading Hodger for Schenn or anything else Toronto had to offer.

 

I'd guess that Vancouver wanted Kassian, the Sabres wanted Hodgson and both parties agreed that Hodgson was worth a bit more than Kassian -- so DR agreed to sweeten the pot with MAG, whom both parties agreed was worth a bit more than Sulzer.

[spndnchz]

If I hear it right DR didn't want to give up Kassian at first. Yes, they had talked about Hodgson but like Toronto was told no at first. The Sabres had plenty of material on Hodgson from the draft, they knew what they were getting.

 

In the end I think both teams got what they wanted/needed.

[TrueBlueGED]

If I hear it right DR didn't want to give up Kassian at first. Yes, they had talked about Hodgson but like Toronto was told no at first. The Sabres had plenty of material on Hodgson from the draft, they knew what they were getting.

 

In the end I think both teams got what they wanted/needed.

 

You must have missed the memo: Ruff hates toughness and the Sabres were actively shopping Kassian for months because his toughness challenged the status quo of softness, and any future tough Sabres will follow on that path of being shipped off.

[korab rules]

You must have missed the memo: Ruff hates toughness and the Sabres were actively shopping Kassian for months because his toughness challenged the status quo of softness, and any future tough Sabres will follow on that path of being shipped off.

 

actually, there was some report that Kass was being very quietly shopped since December

[Derrico]

I continue to think Burke is a good guy who likes talking to the media too much and is overrated as a GM.

 

As to your point -- I agree completely. Gillis and Poile are 2 well-respected GMs who evidently were able to work with DR. Meanwhile, Burke did zero while the Leafs continue to implode.

 

 

You know, I think you're absolutely right. Toronto fans cherish this guy....still. This is Year 4 and the team looks like it's going to miss the playoffs again yet talking to friends around here they still love the young guys and feel the Burke's plan is finally taking shape. I'm not in love with the idea of keeping Darcy but I think Burke might be the most over rated GM in the league. That or something changed in his philosphies upon the move to T.O.

[shrader]

You know, I think you're absolutely right. Toronto fans cherish this guy....still. This is Year 4 and the team looks like it's going to miss the playoffs again yet talking to friends around here they still love the young guys and feel the Burke's plan is finally taking shape. I'm not in love with the idea of keeping Darcy but I think Burke might be the most over rated GM in the league. That or something changed in his philosphies upon the move to T.O.

 

Whatever his plan originally was, it changed somewhere along the lines. He started out going towards that build he had in Anaheim and he has moved away from that with the current group.