X. Benedict Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I would be willing to say Kassian has more goals next year than Hodgson. It's a tough trade to quantify when skillsets are different. I think their longterm plan is to play him with Kesler. That could be a fun line to watch. But on straight goals......sure. Let's just say they both have to play 60 games so a catstrophic injury is no action. Given team histories....I'm probably doing you a favor! I think Hodgson will have the edge.....but mostly because I think that Kassian might have the same problem Hodgson had in a crowded line-up. Kassian might spend a lot of time getting 8-12 minutes if he can't crack the top lines or PP units.
nfreeman Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I would be willing to say Kassian has more goals next year than Hodgson. It's a tough trade to quantify when skillsets are different. I think their longterm plan is to play him with Kesler. That could be a fun line to watch. But on straight goals......sure. Let's just say they both have to play 60 games so a catstrophic injury is no action. Given team histories....I'm probably doing you a favor! Sold! It's a bet. Darcy did nothing for an entire season and let it go to waste. Darcy always sticks to his guns with his core. He convinced himself Connolly and Roy would take over for Drury and Briere. Now 5 years later...5 failure-filled years later, Hodgson will be Roy's replacement in a year or two. It's the same flawed model, and even if Hodgson turns out to be a leader down the road who can put up 70+ points....as always it is too little too late. Well, I think TG/LQ were the drivers in the Connolly/Roy replacing Drury/Briere decision. And I'm hopeful that Hodgson will be a better player than Roy -- more mature, more consistent, more clutch, more better. But I certainly agree that right now it's too little too late and that he sat back and watch this season go down the tubes when it was obvious well before Xmas that there were major problems. I am VERY bullish on the Bills. It is all about the people in charge and the work ethic and honesty that comes from top down. Poor Ralph is in rough shape, but every now and then when he thinks he is on the verge...he goes for it. The Bills finally have football guys in the position of GM and Coach and Scouting. Donahoe/Modrak/Mularkey is what set that franchise back so far, and Levy Jauron was just a way to try and gain some credibility back ON THE INSIDE by Ralph. When you get screwed over by people who you were told had more talent....you take a step back and only surround yourself with people you trust. Now Nix and Gailey and Whaley are just the perfect combo of no-nonsense old school, with enough underlying upside to take a giant step forward. They have built the team on that same idea. I look for the Bills to complete a 2 year plan to win in the playoffs. I feel they are a .500 or better team next year knowing what I think they are targeting to do. If the Bills do not win a playoff game or have a bye week by 2013, I will be extremely disappointed and consider my faith and outlook as a failure. Please....if this site is still up then and the Bills fail to be in the top 1/3 of the league in 2 years....rub it in my face, because I am that confident and will deserve it. I'm a lot higher on the Bills chances than the Sabres. This I can't agree with at all. The Bills have effectively seceded from the NFL, even if they've lucked into a good coach and good QB. Do you think they're going to keep Stevie Johnson? Do you think they're going to bring in any good FAs? I think they're going to keep spending the minimum and grinding out a $10MM or $20MM per year profit or whatever it is until Ralph passes away and the team is sold.
spndnchz Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I would be willing to say Kassian has more goals next year than Hodgson. It's a tough trade to quantify when skillsets are different. I think their longterm plan is to play him with Kesler. That could be a fun line to watch. But on straight goals......sure. Let's just say they both have to play 60 games so a catstrophic injury is no action. Given team histories....I'm probably doing you a favor! He just might but I doubt he gets more points.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 He just might but I doubt he gets more points. Oh, I agree. But they want Kassian to open up room for Kesler long term and have a hybrid energy/scoring line. I firmly believe this was their thinking. Almost along the lines of the old Islanders where you had a guy like Clark Gillies mixing in with Bossy and Trottier. This year I don't know how much he will have an impact, but they are in such good shape he has 20 games to get his feet under him for before the playoffs. A little bit of confidence and he could be a factor for them. I think this is the perfect situation for him to springboard his career fast.
LabattBlue Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Oh, I agree. But they want Kassian to open up room for Kesler long term and have a hybrid energy/scoring line. I firmly believe this was their thinking. Almost along the lines of the old Islanders where you had a guy like Clark Gillies mixing in with Bossy and Trottier. This year I don't know how much he will have an impact, but they are in such good shape he has 20 games to get his feet under him for before the playoffs. A little bit of confidence and he could be a factor for them. I think this is the perfect situation for him to springboard his career fast. You only get so many chances to get a kick at the can, and I would think Vancouver fans are pissed that if they were going to trade Hodgson, go get a veteran forward with at least 4-5 years of experience who can help them win a cup THIS SEASON. Who knows what happens to that team next year and beyond.
Taro T Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Oh, I agree. But they want Kassian to open up room for Kesler long term and have a hybrid energy/scoring line. I firmly believe this was their thinking. Almost along the lines of the old Islanders where you had a guy like Clark Gillies mixing in with Bossy and Trottier. This year I don't know how much he will have an impact, but they are in such good shape he has 20 games to get his feet under him for before the playoffs. A little bit of confidence and he could be a factor for them. I think this is the perfect situation for him to springboard his career fast. It's a good place for him to be. I wouldn't be at all surprised if their plan is for him to play on Kessler's or Henrik's line once he has a little seasoning. I'd be surprised if he gets a lot of time there in this playoffs, but he'll get a shift here or there.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Sold! It's a bet. Well, I think TG/LQ were the drivers in the Connolly/Roy replacing Drury/Briere decision. And I'm hopeful that Hodgson will be a better player than Roy -- more mature, more consistent, more clutch, more better. But I certainly agree that right now it's too little too late and that he sat back and watch this season go down the tubes when it was obvious well before Xmas that there were major problems. This I can't agree with at all. The Bills have effectively seceded from the NFL, even if they've lucked into a good coach and good QB. Do you think they're going to keep Stevie Johnson? Do you think they're going to bring in any good FAs? I think they're going to keep spending the minimum and grinding out a $10MM or $20MM per year profit or whatever it is until Ralph passes away and the team is sold. OK....bet is on! I think that by moving to the 4-3 with Wanny they have overnight improved their defense by 15%. They have done a good job getting guys that will be strong depth over the years and have high football IQ on both sides of the ball. My best guess? They resign Stevie Johnson, they get a true deep threat on the other side...Bowe or Vincent Jackson can't be ruled out....they draft a tackle or passrusher at #10 and grab a mid-profile free agent at one of those same positions. They also bring in a #3 type vet corner in case McGee is shot and Aaron Williams doesn't make fast gains. I LOVE the core of this team. I would go to war with Fitz, Jackson, Wood, Nelson, Levitre, Williams, Dareus, Barnett, Wilson, Kelsay...any day. They are smart, talented, hard working, and there are 4 or 5 natural leaders in that group...and the rest are solid in that department. The 2nd tier of Florence, Byrd, Edwards, Scott if he stays, Urbik, Pears, McGee, Spiller, Chandler.....again.....where is yahoo or slacker in that group? This team is a TEAM that just needs a little more success and a little more help in talent. Gailey is as straight a shooter as you can find. He is smart and humble. I would play my tail off for him any day. I'm getting excited just thinking about what is possible..........
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 ... They lost ground on their goal of winning the Stanley Cup. It is such a tragic combo in my opinion....Regier-Ruff-Roster.....and the trade just magnified it. On talent alone, the trade is fine. For people that say a center is more important than toughness......you could have all the riches and trinkets in the world in your possession........but if you don't have the defense measures in place to protect them...the bad guys just come and take your stuff. .../ Sorry to snip ... I like the trade, but I have contemplated this ... Who is closer to the cup? Vancouver. What were they missing last year, especially in the finals? They trade for Kassian ... Oh, oh!
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 Sorry to snip ... I like the trade, but I have contemplated this ... Who is closer to the cup? Vancouver. What were they missing last year, especially in the finals? They trade for Kassian ... Oh, oh! They also got Pahlsson and brough Higgins back. Kassian can fight and cycle, and with all that talent on that team, he will be able to show off his talent along the boards and on the puck even moreso. Vancouver has a lot of skill guys who are sturdy, much like Detroit. They weren't pansies....they were a blip away from winning it all. I really would like to know what other deal was on the table with Buffalo. I would think that Gaustad's name came up. Did Vancouver purely target Kassian, or was a bigger deal coveted where they had targeted Gaustad and Leopold, but Darcy wanted too much? Maybe we will never know. Maybe chz knows. At the end of the day they got a guy who at the very least isn't a liability, can stick up for guys, and has more upside in their system than he did here.
TrueBlueGED Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I have no idea how anybody can be bullish on the Bills and not the Sabres, especially when you rail on Regier and Ruff's 15 years of failiure, but proceed to excuse Ralph's failure for the entirety of his owning the team, minus what, 10 years total? The ONLY reason the Bills were ever any good since the merger was because they fell backwards into success. They hit the lottery on Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas falling to round 2, Andre Reed falling, and the USFL folding so Kelly finally came here, and just in general having Bill Polian. Before and after Polian, the team has been garbage, largely because Wilson won't spend the requisite money. You honestly expect him to go out and not only resign Johnson, but spend a boat load on Vincent Jackson or Bowe? Seriously? I'd say there's about a 1% chance that Wilson invests around $18 million per year average in wide receivers. This is a franchise that not only went into last season without a backup center because they didn't want to pay him, but they didn't even have a clue who on the roster could play center if Wood went down. Not like it matters anyway, since the red popgun we have at QB couldn't consistently throw a deep ball if doing so would result in world peace.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I have no idea how anybody can be bullish on the Bills and not the Sabres, especially when you rail on Regier and Ruff's 15 years of failiure, but proceed to excuse Ralph's failure for the entirety of his owning the team, minus what, 10 years total? The ONLY reason the Bills were ever any good since the merger was because they fell backwards into success. They hit the lottery on Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas falling to round 2, Andre Reed falling, and the USFL folding so Kelly finally came here, and just in general having Bill Polian. Before and after Polian, the team has been garbage, largely because Wilson won't spend the requisite money. You honestly expect him to go out and not only resign Johnson, but spend a boat load on Vincent Jackson or Bowe? Seriously? I'd say there's about a 1% chance that Wilson invests around $18 million per year average in wide receivers. This is a franchise that not only went into last season without a backup center because they didn't want to pay him, but they didn't even have a clue who on the roster could play center if Wood went down. Not like it matters anyway, since the red popgun we have at QB couldn't consistently throw a deep ball if doing so would result in world peace. We shall see. I railed against the Bills when Donahoe and Mularkey were here, Donahoe and Modrak's drafting were the poison. Ralph was actually trying to be aggressive by bringing them in and it backfired on him so he went into a shell. Marv came in and went for a bunch of safe guys and had to overpay for subpar linemen in free agency. Right now there is the perfect mix of guys Ralph respects and can relate to, but with upside. Nix isn't long for his job but is full of passion and decisive. Gailey is like a father figure to the young guys and seems to be able to relate up and down the roster. He lays it all out on the table for all to see. To me that says he has great expectations from his men. Why waste time playing games with the media and trying to make yourself look good.....focus on getting better and planning on beating your opponent. Again....I am so confident the right structure is in place that I stick by my statement going into this season. There is a good chance the Bills win more playoff games than Sabres do playoff series over the next 3 years (2011-2013). Everyone went nuts and laughed. I pegged the odds at 30% before last season.....I think it's right at 50/50 or better right now.
beerme1 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 I'm a lot higher on the Bills chances than the Sabres. Thanks. Im taking a break from this board. And to anyone who thinks Kassian equals a cup for Van enjoy the playoffs. Now theyre already bitching that Pahlsonn cant score and that is a major drop off from this kid. I wish Zack well but he will be a lazy headcase for them is my bet not the final piece to a stanley cup in a season where he has been up and down and virtually invisible.
tom webster Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 We shall see. I railed against the Bills when Donahoe and Mularkey were here, Donahoe and Modrak's drafting were the poison. Ralph was actually trying to be aggressive by bringing them in and it backfired on him so he went into a shell. Marv came in and went for a bunch of safe guys and had to overpay for subpar linemen in free agency. Right now there is the perfect mix of guys Ralph respects and can relate to, but with upside. Nix isn't long for his job but is full of passion and decisive. Gailey is like a father figure to the young guys and seems to be able to relate up and down the roster. He lays it all out on the table for all to see. To me that says he has great expectations from his men. Why waste time playing games with the media and trying to make yourself look good.....focus on getting better and planning on beating your opponent. Again....I am so confident the right structure is in place that I stick by my statement going into this season. There is a good chance the Bills win more playoff games than Sabres do playoff series over the next 3 years (2011-2013). Everyone went nuts and laughed. I pegged the odds at 30% before last season.....I think it's right at 50/50 or better right now. No matter how you feel about either team, if you are asking someone to choose between the odds of the Bills' winning a playoff game next year versuses any NHL team winning a playoff series next year, I would guess that odds would favor the Bills.
TrueBlueGED Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 No matter how you feel about either team, if you are asking someone to choose between the odds of the Bills' winning a playoff game next year versuses any NHL team winning a playoff series next year, I would guess that odds would favor the Bills. Winning an NFL playoff game is infinitely easier than winning an NHL playoff series. The discrepancy is mitigated somewhat by it being harder to make the playoffs in the NFL than the NHL.
deluca67 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 From reading this message board, you'd swear Milan Lucic is the single most dominant force in the history of hockey. Can you name another player that ended a teams season in November. Gomez did it, that was a little later in the season.
spndnchz Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 They also got Pahlsson and brough Higgins back. Kassian can fight and cycle, and with all that talent on that team, he will be able to show off his talent along the boards and on the puck even moreso. Vancouver has a lot of skill guys who are sturdy, much like Detroit. They weren't pansies....they were a blip away from winning it all. I really would like to know what other deal was on the table with Buffalo. I would think that Gaustad's name came up. Did Vancouver purely target Kassian, or was a bigger deal coveted where they had targeted Gaustad and Leopold, but Darcy wanted too much? Maybe we will never know. Maybe chz knows. At the end of the day they got a guy who at the very least isn't a liability, can stick up for guys, and has more upside in their system than he did here. Here goes: After Detroit pulls out from the Gaustad for a first trade. 1:30 phone call Nucks want Kassian. 1:31 DR says we want a first back 1:32 Nucks say how about Hodgson, he was a first round pick 1:35 DR says he's more money can't take him We need to shed payroll 1:45 Nucks say how about we even it up and trade some AHL 2 way payroll 2:01 DR says okay Grags for Seltzer 2:02 Both teams think they win.
Eleven Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Can you name another player that ended a teams season in November. Gomez did it, that was a little later in the season. Loaded question that gives Lucic way too much credit.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 No matter how you feel about either team, if you are asking someone to choose between the odds of the Bills' winning a playoff game next year versuses any NHL team winning a playoff series next year, I would guess that odds would favor the Bills. Winning an NFL playoff game is infinitely easier than winning an NHL playoff series. The discrepancy is mitigated somewhat by it being harder to make the playoffs in the NFL than the NHL. Huh? Who? What? 16 of 30 teams in the NHL make the playoffs and 8 will win a series 12 of 32 teams in the NFL make the playoffs and 8 will win a game if you count the bye as "winning". The odds of winning either ONCE IN THE PLAYOFFS is the same. However 53.3% of NHL teams make the playoffs with a chance to win a series. Only 37.5% of NFL teams have the same chance.
Robviously Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Here goes: After Detroit pulls out from the Gaustad for a first trade. 1:30 phone call Nucks want Kassian. 1:31 DR says we want a first back 1:32 Nucks say how about Hodgson, he was a first round pick 1:35 DR says he's more money can't take him We need to shed payroll 1:45 Nucks say how about we even it up and trade some AHL 2 way payroll 2:01 DR says okay Grags for Seltzer 2:02 Both teams think they win. We would've traded Kassian for Vancouver's (late) first round pick this summer?? If that's true, the Sabres must have been really down on him because that's not good return for him.
darksabre Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 We would've traded Kassian for Vancouver's (late) first round pick this summer?? If that's true, the Sabres must have been really down on him because that's not good return for him. Why isn't that a good return for a player who isn't a proven NHL player yet?
shrader Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Why isn't that a good return for a player who isn't a proven NHL player yet? Because he was,what, 9th overall just two years ago.
deluca67 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Loaded question that gives Lucic way too much credit. Is that not the defining moment of the season? Why isn't that a good return for a player who isn't a proven NHL player yet? Kassian may not have been "proven", he also didn't seem out of place.
FolignosJock Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Is that not the defining moment of the season? Kassian may not have been "proven", he also didn't seem out of place. The Lucic incident is a small part of what was wrong with the sabres this year, goal scoring depth was a much bigger problem IMO.
darksabre Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 Because he was,what, 9th overall just two years ago. 13th. Steve Bernier was drafted 16th in 2003. Not all first rounders turn into something special. A first would be good return for a player you suspect might not turn into the player you thought he'd be. Kassian may not have been "proven", he also didn't seem out of place. I'll wait for a larger sample size before I make that assessment.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 1, 2012 Report Posted March 1, 2012 We would've traded Kassian for Vancouver's (late) first round pick this summer?? If that's true, the Sabres must have been really down on him because that's not good return for him. If this is true, what is more concerning is that Vancouver would rather give up Hodgson than the projected 27th-30th pick in the draft. Whuzzup wit dat?
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