Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[Weave]

 

Foligno 7 months younger than Kass.

 

BOOM!

[dudacek]

 

I am very disappointed with Foligno under Nolan. I figured he would thrive. So far, Stafford is showing much more of a power forward skillset than Foligno under Nolan.

 

Soooooooo..........how come you can't understand some people would value a guy like Kassian, who has 2x the skill of Grier, but 1/3 the leadership to this point....over Hodgson? Hodgson is exactly what the Sabres had tons of.....skilled, soft, reluctant to battle.

 

. I have no ties to Kassian other than loving the fact a guy can kill someone on the ice, busts open half the guys he fights, has hands softer than anyone on this team, and if he is on the pace to score 20 on the 3rd and 4th line now...what will he do in a few years.....all this after watching a culture of Pure Pussydome in my hometown for longer than most Great Danes live.....

 

What's funny.....is the constant sh!t some "negative?" posters took for trying to expose the previous regime.

 

 

All this tells me you might be substituting your long-term frustrations about Darcy's defenders and Darcy's teams and your honest hope Kassian would finally address what was wrong with Darcy's teams for an honest appraisal of Kassian's game.

 

He should be all those things you describe. One day he could be. But right now he is nothing more than a disappointing prospect who doesn't hit enough, doesn't make enough plays and doesn't show enough consistent discipline, or snarl. He is invisible way too often. If the Canucks had the depth they did a few years ago, Torts would be asking him to learn a by watching a few.

 

You talk about being disappointed in Foligno. Right now, Kassian is Foligno.

He shows signs. He could be better. He should be better. Canuck fans desperately want him to be better.

But right now, the light bulb has yet to go on.

 

You are still in love with the concept.

[K-9]

Kassian has a higher ceiling in my opinion. But would I trade Foligno for Kassian straight up? Hmmmm.....

 

I bet Foligno has a better chance of outscoring Kassian than Kassian has of catching Hodgson.

 

Kassian 10g 6a 16 pts

Foligno 6g 8a 14 pts

 

Hodgson 14g 15a 29pts

 

Foligno 7 months younger than Kass.

 

I think Kassian has a much higher ceiling as well. But that begs the question, do you prefer a guy with a lower ceiling that is 100% effort all the time or a player with a higher ceiling that disappears for long stretches?

 

If anyone can coax that consistent effort out of Kassian, it's Torts, whom I have a lot of respect for. If he can't, I feel there is little hope for Kassian except for playing for a coach like Nolan, ironically. Then again, he wouldn't get the opportunities with Nolan if his effort was lacking for any period of time, either.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[tom webster]

I never thought the Sabres lost in 2007 because of lack of toughness. They were not beat up in that series with Ottawa - the one they lost. They outhit Ottawa....they just got outplayed. I don't think they would have beat Anaheim. But Ottawa won that series at center ice. Not in the corners. Buffalo lost that series on the PP. 2 for 30 in the series. 10%

 

2 for 30 on the PP. Toughness don't mean dick if you are 2 for 30 on the PP.

 

But repeat it long enough and it becomes something else. 12 Mike Griers wouldn't have helped.

2007 - Center Ice....and the PP. I'm sticking with it.

 

2 for 30 on the PP.

 

Word.

 

(obviously my, ahem....math doesn't help my point. I meant 6.67 % on the PP. Toughness can still mean dick at 10% PP. But it definitively don't mean dick at 6.67%)

 

Thank you.

[deluca67]

Nope.

 

I had this long post typed up and realized there is no arguing with you. Kassian lack of offensive output at this point of his career is not a great sign. He only has a whopping 16 points this year because his shooting percent is near 20 percent. That isn't going to be repeated, and it creates false impressions. See drew stafford in 2010 (even that abnormal year he had a lower shooting percentage than kassian has this year).

 

 

Hodgson on the other hand is producing points. And I don't know if you knew this, but hodgson was always viewed as a much higher prospect than kassian, and isn't a pure goal scorer. He is actually a two-way forward who is still developing that part of his game. Unlike kassian, his progress is going great and he has given us no concerns to be worried. Kassian however, hasn't shown an ounce of offensive upside. When educated hockey fans like ourselves look at this team, you should realize that we lack scoring talent. A person like cody in the system is exactly what we need and want more of

I hope you are talking about his love life because he certainly doesn't go both ways on the ice. :doh:

[dudacek]

 

I hope you are talking about his love life because he certainly doesn't go both ways on the ice. :doh:

 

He's as good in his own zone as Kassian is.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

I never thought the Sabres lost in 2007 because of lack of toughness. They were not beat up in that series with Ottawa - the one they lost. They outhit Ottawa....they just got outplayed. I don't think they would have beat Anaheim. But Ottawa won that series at center ice. Not in the corners. Buffalo lost that series on the PP. 2 for 30 in the series. 10%

 

2 for 30 on the PP. Toughness don't mean dick if you are 2 for 30 on the PP.

 

But repeat it long enough and it becomes something else. 12 Mike Griers wouldn't have helped.

2007 - Center Ice....and the PP. I'm sticking with it.

 

2 for 30 on the PP.

 

Word.

 

(obviously my, ahem....math doesn't help my point. I meant 6.67 % on the PP. Toughness can still mean dick at 10% PP. But it definitively don't mean dick at 6.67%)

 

Agree here....the loss of Grier was not why we lost that series. I had an issue trying to equate Grier's contributions to a team with Kassian's. Apples and oranges, Kassian is not and will never be a Mike Grier type of player.

[deluca67]

All this tells me you might be substituting your long-term frustrations about Darcy's defenders and Darcy's teams and your honest hope Kassian would finally address what was wrong with Darcy's teams for an honest appraisal of Kassian's game.

 

He should be all those things you describe. One day he could be. But right now he is nothing more than a disappointing prospect who doesn't hit enough, doesn't make enough plays and doesn't show enough consistent discipline, or snarl. He is invisible way too often. If the Canucks had the depth they did a few years ago, Torts would be asking him to learn a by watching a few.

 

You talk about being disappointed in Foligno. Right now, Kassian is Foligno.

He shows signs. He could be better. He should be better. Canuck fans desperately want him to be better.

But right now, the light bulb has yet to go on.

 

You are still in love with the concept.

That right there tells me you haven't been watching many Canucks games, if any. The kid has been getting his minutes and contributing which, barring injury, will continue into the playoffs which his game is tailored made for. For those with short term memory loss, the Black Hawks won the Stanley Cup due in large part to them amping up their physical game. If a team like the Canucks are going to go head to head with the Hawks and a team like the Kings they better have the horses that can match the physical game. Kassian brings that along with a bit of the offensive game. The Canucks are in a better position with Kassian in their lineup than they would be with Hodgson half-a$$ing it most of the time.

 

He's as good in his own zone as Kassian is.

Not if you watch the games.

[dudacek]

I live in the Vancouver market. I see more Canucks than any team other than the Sabres.

I watch the Vancouver sports shows, read the Vancouver papers talk to the Canuck fans and have Vancouver sports radio on pretty much every day.

How much Canucks are you watching?

Edited January 31, 2014 by dudacek

[deluca67]

I live in the Vancouver market. I see more Canucks than any team other than the Sabres.

I watch the Vancouver sports shows, read the Vancouver papers talk to the Canuck fans and have Vancouver sports radio on pretty much every day.

How much Canucks are you watching?

If you really were than you know the BS you are posting is just that, BS.

 

With the wonderful world of Center Ice and NHL.com I have been able to catch a great deal of Canucks this year, which is why I feel comfortable calling out the BS.

[dudacek]

The best you can come up with is calling me a liar?

 

To be clear, Kassian has played better in the past 10 games or so, but Cody Hodgson's 10 points in his past nine games proves a small sample size does not a case make.

[LGR4GM]

Zack Kassian pisses acid and spits fire. He coughed once and Japan suffered a tsunami. Kassian fell once and his impact created the grand canyon. Kassian fought Chuck Norris, when was the last time you saw Chuck Norris? Kassian is able to leap tall buildings in a single bound... but he prefers to just knock the buildings over because it is easier. Once Kassian loved a women, she died from to much awesome. Kassian is the greatest thing since wings, beer, and pizza.

 

Zack Kassian, a man, a hockey player, a receding hair line.

 

[MattPie]

That right there tells me you haven't been watching many Canucks games, if any. The kid has been getting his minutes and contributing which, barring injury, will continue into the playoffs which his game is tailored made for. For those with short term memory loss, the Black Hawks won the Stanley Cup due in large part to them amping up their physical game. If a team like the Canucks are going to go head to head with the Hawks and a team like the Kings they better have the horses that can match the physical game. Kassian brings that along with a bit of the offensive game. The Canucks are in a better position with Kassian in their lineup than they would be with Hodgson half-a$$ing it most of the time.

 

Wasn't Kassian sitting half the time in the playoffs last year?

 

EDIT: Oops, no. He played all four games, 0-0-0, -1, 4 PIM.

Edited January 31, 2014 by MattPie

[Taro T]

Wasn't Kassian sitting half the time in the playoffs last year?

McKee sat a lot in the playoffs early in his career as well. He turned out ok.

 

Still waaaaay to early to say how either kid will turn out when all is said and done.

[MattPie]

McKee sat a lot in the playoffs early in his career as well. He turned out ok.

 

Still waaaaay to early to say how either kid will turn out when all is said and done.

 

I tend to agree. I just wanted to point out that when given the chance so far, Kassian has yet to show he'll be the playoff monster that DeLuca thinks he is.

[X. Benedict]

Not if you watch the games.

 

So you are watching the games. Explain Kassian's anemic numbers -

 

Apples to Apples- both 3rd liners:

 

Marcus Foligno TOI 14:36 game Hits 135 Blocked shots 20 6g 8a -14 5 Majors

Zack Kassian TOI 12:17 game Hits 60 hits Blocked shots 5 10g 6a -5 3 Majors

 

 

 

 

What I see in Kassian is a guy that can't forecheck, can't skate well enough to get into the corners, lacks the timing to cover point well.

 

What I see in Foligno is a guy that busted hump to improve his skating - and has - sticks up for teammates and is consistent when not scoring.

 

I don't see what you are seeing in Kassian (NB: I see he has talent, I just don't see it now, and I watched him twice this month)

 

What exactly are you seeing?

 

(add the fact that Foligno is younger, and is developing into a very nice option on draws.....would you trade Marcus for Zack straight up? I wouldn't)

Edited January 31, 2014 by X. Benedict

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Once Again....a bunch of you prove my point.

 

Please find me any quote of mine where I say Cody Hodgson is a bad hockey player......

 

Let's put it this way....with Cody Hodgson's skillset, he will NEVER make the Olympics. There will always be 20 or 30 guys who are just as talented or better, bigger, or tougher.

 

There is a 30% chance Kassian makes an Olympic roster over time.

 

Hodgson is a fine player, but a commodity in NHL terms. Put Plante, Holzinger, Dawe, Satan, Turgeon, Hogue, Roy, Connolly in a blender.....and you have Hodgson.

 

Kassian is a roulette wheel of Neely, Gillies, Lucic, Bossy, Nilan, Corson, May.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see what you are seeing in Kassian (NB: I see he has talent, I just don't see it now, and I watched him twice this month)

 

What exactly are you seeing?

 

 

I watched Drew Stafford twice this month.......

[Johnny DangerFace]

Let's put it this way....with Cody Hodgson's skillset, he will NEVER make the Olympics. There will always be 20 or 30 guys who are just as talented or better, bigger, or tougher.

 

There is a 30% chance Kassian makes an Olympic roster over time.

 

Hodgson is a fine player, but a commodity in NHL terms. Put Plante, Holzinger, Dawe, Satan, Turgeon, Hogue, Roy, Connolly in a blender.....and you have Hodgson.

 

Kassian is a roulette wheel of Neely, Gillies, Lucic, Bossy, Nilan, Corson, May.

 

 

How can anyone take you seriously when you say stuff like that. Hodgson has a 0% chance of making the olympics, kassian has a 30% chance. What does that even mean? Where do those numbers come from? What point are you trying to prove?

[Robviously]

Cody "No Defense" Hodgson on the ice tonight in the final minute when Phoenix pulled their goalie.

 

I just re-calculated his chances of ever playing in the Olympics and they're now 0.017843% (after rounding and adjusting for inflation).

 

Once Again....a bunch of you prove my point.

 

Please find me any quote of mine where I say Cody Hodgson is a bad hockey player......

 

Let's put it this way....with Cody Hodgson's skillset, he will NEVER make the Olympics. There will always be 20 or 30 guys who are just as talented or better, bigger, or tougher.

 

There is a 30% chance Kassian makes an Olympic roster over time.

 

Hodgson is a fine player, but a commodity in NHL terms. Put Plante, Holzinger, Dawe, Satan, Turgeon, Hogue, Roy, Connolly in a blender.....and you have Hodgson.

 

Kassian is a roulette wheel of Neely, Gillies, Lucic, Bossy, Nilan, Corson, May.

Why stop there? He's actually all those guys put together!

[bunomatic]

Bossy ?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Bossy ?

 

Phil Bossy....

 

OK....in reality though, the worst he is on that list is Brad May, who was a nice, tough, honest player for a long time.

 

Who can Hodgson become? I said his ceiling was Pierre Turgeon. At worst he is who?....Plante?........

 

If they both peak, Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. If they both hit their low end...Kassian is worth more than Hodgson. Hodgson needs to hit somewhere between 70-90% of his potential and Kassian 40-60% for Hodgson to be more valuable in the long run.

 

Again....(not you Bun)...please find me where I say Hodgson is a bad player. All I have done is praise his vision, compliment his outward maturity this year, and say he is a nice player. I happen to value Kassian more. 40% of NHL'rs can be a Hodgson. 3% can be a Kassian. I will take my chances on the rarity, and a kid who has turned the corner the past 6 weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dudacek]

I've got no problem with your take on Hodgson.

It's your take on Kassian I have trouble with.

Brad May is a bad comparison because right now Kassian is not an honest hockey player.

Honest hockey players give you what you've got. Brad did. Zach hasn't found that yet.

 

He has the skill set of the guys in your blender. He has potential to be mentioned with them.

He's tough, he's got good hands, he's got a wild side that could scare the ###### out of the Cody Hodgson's of the world.

 

Saying Kassian could be Neely is like saying Hodgson could be Toews — similar skill sets, but.. come on!

 

Kassian and Hodgson both need to be men. Right now, each lacks the focus? attitude? brains? will? maturity? "it."

 

Torts could bring it out of Kassian. Teddy could bring it out in Hodgson.

And if they both reach their peak, I would take Kassian too.

 

But right now, Hodgson is clearly the better player.

Edited January 31, 2014 by dudacek

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I've got no problem with your take on Hodgson.

It's your take on Kassian I have trouble with.

Brad May is a bad comparison because right now Kassian is not an honest hockey player.

Honest hockey players give you what you've got. Brad did. Zach hasn't found that yet.

 

He has the skill set of the guys in your blender. He has potential to be mentioned with them.

He's tough, he's got good hands, he's got a wild side that could scare the ###### out of the Cody Hodgson's of the world.

 

Saying Kassian could be Neely is like saying Hodgson could be Toews — similar skill sets, but.. come on!

 

Kassian and Hodgson both need to be men. Right now, each lacks the focus? attitude? brains? will? maturity? "it."

 

Torts could bring it out of Kassian. Teddy could bring it out in Hodgson.

And if they both reach their peak, I would take Kassian too.

 

But right now, Hodgson is clearly the better player.

 

And this is a great synopsis.

 

I would take Kassian over Hodgson.

 

Sadly, on the current Sabres roster, this is a moot discussion. Maybe that is why I appreciate it so much. I respect the daylights out of Torts. I think Vancouver has enough talent and guts to make a go of it in the playoffs....and I really think Kassian was a 6 month old pit bull puppy who has grown to a 10 month old and will break the skin when playing with you, but means well. Torts and team are starting to find that balance with him. Sure...he may chew up your couch and make a poopy on your bedspread before he grows up....but he will be the most athletic, loyal, nasty and loving dog in the world if you get it right with him.

 

Hodgson is more like a 2yo Sharpei. He's a very nice and docile dog. All the fellas love to pet him when you walk him through the village and he loves to be loved on.

 

If you have a few toddlers and are very conservative....the Sharpei is a no-brainer.

 

If you have the spirit and understanding....a pitbull will reward you without limit if you put the effort into him.

 

That's all I'm saying....

[dudacek]

And this is a great synopsis.

 

I would take Kassian over Hodgson.

 

Sadly, on the current Sabres roster, this is a moot discussion. Maybe that is why I appreciate it so much. I respect the daylights out of Torts. I think Vancouver has enough talent and guts to make a go of it in the playoffs....and I really think Kassian was a 6 month old pit bull puppy who has grown to a 10 month old and will break the skin when playing with you, but means well. Torts and team are starting to find that balance with him. Sure...he may chew up your couch and make a poopy on your bedspread before he grows up....but he will be the most athletic, loyal, nasty and loving dog in the world if you get it right with him.

 

Hodgson is more like a 2yo Sharpei. He's a very nice and docile dog. All the fellas love to pet him when you walk him through the village and he loves to be loved on.

 

If you have a few toddlers and are very conservative....the Sharpei is a no-brainer.

 

If you have the spirit and understanding....a pitbull will reward you without limit if you put the effort into him.

 

That's all I'm saying....

 

Fair.

I'm not convinced Zach will ever get there.

But if anyone can get it out of him, it's Torts.

[X. Benedict]

Kassian is a roulette wheel of Neely, Gillies, Lucic, Bossy, Nilan, Corson, May.

..

 

More than likely Kassian becomes an improved version of what he is now. Which is not a bull in the kitchen (the guys you mention), but a perimeter player. I haven't really seen a goal yet that demonstrates Kassians willingness to bang hard inside and take the lumps necessary to earn his keep there, especially away from the puck.

 

Willing to fight, nice hands, snipes the perimeter. Not really a digger in the corners.

 

Wilf Paiement is really who he reminds me of at best. And that isn't a slam. It is more the player he is than Cam Neely or anyone you mentioned. The RH shot too. He reminds me of a Young Wilfy.

Edited January 31, 2014 by X. Benedict