Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[Robviously]

This is what I dont get.... Foligno is doing what kassian is supposed to be doing at this phase of their development on a team that has scored 41 less goals than Vancouver.

Kassian isn't even as good as Foligno, who people around here have been complaining about, but he's also somehow this amazing player we should have never traded away. That's weird, huh?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

Do me a favor and get a clue. The point about the 2007 team is that we were one dimensional and lost too much of our toughness. That doesn't mean tough (or concept of tough) is better than talent.

 

And if Kassian is so awesome, why aren't you on here praising Marcus Foligno every day? Kassian has 16 points and 60 hits this year for a good team. Foligno has 14 points and *135* hits for a terrible team. Have fun with that.

 

Which goes to my original point in bumping the thread a few weeks ago....there is an immature and underdeveloped psychology of some fans wanting former Sabres to fail while excusing off every little nook and cranny in current and especially new Sabres.

 

You made 3 good points about the Sabres, yet somehow refuse to see how they compute to this specific situation.

 

 

[Robviously]

Which goes to my original point in bumping the thread a few weeks ago....there is an immature and underdeveloped psychology of some fans wanting former Sabres to fail while excusing off every little nook and cranny in current and especially new Sabres.

 

You made 3 good points about the Sabres, yet somehow refuse to see how they compute to this specific situation.

You made zero good points compared to my 3 good points but still think you're winning. Sort of a microcosm of your "Kassian is better than Hodgson" rationale.

 

Would love to know what you think is so unique about this "specific situation." Regier picked Foligno over Kassian and traded Kassian for Hodgson. So far it looks like he was right twice.

[MattPie]

You made zero good points compared to my 3 good points but still think you're winning. Sort of a microcosm of your "Kassian is better than Hodgson" rationale.

 

Would love to know what you think is so unique about this "specific situation." Regier picked Foligno over Kassian and traded Kassian for Hodgson. So far it looks like he was right twice.

 

I think the argument is that Regier should have kept Kassian, and traded another asset for someone similar to Hodgson. Big-G values power-forwards above almost everything else. I can't say that he doesn't have a point, but up to now Kassian isn't showing much more than bottom-6 winger (much like Foligno), so Hodgson is proving to be far more valuable to the team. I think it's a good trade as well, and I wish this thread would just die, die, die.

[LGR4GM]

I think the argument is that Regier should have kept Kassian, and traded another asset for someone similar to Hodgson. Big-G values power-forwards above almost everything else. I can't say that he doesn't have a point, but up to now Kassian isn't showing much more than bottom-6 winger (much like Foligno), so Hodgson is proving to be far more valuable to the team. I think it's a good trade as well, and I wish this thread would just die, die, die.

Aww come on our little baby thread here is almost 2 years old. Its birthdate is Febraury 27th, 2012.

[MattPie]

Aww come on our little baby thread here is almost 2 years old. Its birthdate is Febraury 27th, 2012.

 

Let's give it to the Canes fans so they can eat it as war reparations.

[LGR4GM]

Let's give it to the Canes fans so they can eat it as war reparations.

:w00t:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

You made zero good points compared to my 3 good points but still think you're winning. Sort of a microcosm of your "Kassian is better than Hodgson" rationale.

 

Would love to know what you think is so unique about this "specific situation." Regier picked Foligno over Kassian and traded Kassian for Hodgson. So far it looks like he was right twice.

 

No....Regier was on record saying they viewed Foligno as a 4th line forward, 3rd at best...2 months after the trade. He was surprised by his success so early. It's out there...as well as the opinions on Foligno by Rene Robert, et al.

 

I am very disappointed with Foligno under Nolan. I figured he would thrive. So far, Stafford is showing much more of a power forward skillset than Foligno under Nolan.

 

Nowhere have I ever said Hodgson is a crappy player or not talented. I am constantly amused however by the Cody Coddling that goes on. You yourself just said the 2007 Sabres weren't built for the playoffs because they dumped a guy like Grier and kept Afinogenov. Well......you never answered my question....Afinogenov had almost 3x as many points per game as Grier.

 

Soooooooo..........how come you can't understand some people would value a guy like Kassian, who has 2x the skill of Grier, but 1/3 the leadership to this point....over Hodgson? Hodgson is exactly what the Sabres had tons of.....skilled, soft, reluctant to battle. "But Cody's young....he hasn't reached his ceiling!!!! Yeah...no sh!t....Kassian is a year younger and has a game built on strength, which takes longer to develop than skill...but just happens to have a similar goal output playing 80% of the ice time as Hodgson.

 

Please....after watching this team the past decade, educated fans understand why I would value Kassian more. I just wish if someone's kid sang happy birthday to the owner, or a player signed a jersey for them....they'd have full disclosure....because I wouldn't assume there is a screw missing from you. I have no ties to Kassian other than loving the fact a guy can kill someone on the ice, busts open half the guys he fights, has hands softer than anyone on this team, and if he is on the pace to score 20 on the 3rd and 4th line now...what will he do in a few years.....all this after watching a culture of Pure Pussydome in my hometown for longer than most Great Danes live.....

 

 

[X. Benedict]

No....Regier was on record saying they viewed Foligno as a 4th line forward, 3rd at best...2 months after the trade. He was surprised by his success so early. It's out there...as well as the opinions on Foligno by Rene Robert, et al.

 

I am very disappointed with Foligno under Nolan. I figured he would thrive. So far, Stafford is showing much more of a power forward skillset than Foligno under Nolan.

 

Nowhere have I ever said Hodgson is a crappy player or not talented. I am constantly amused however by the Cody Coddling that goes on. You yourself just said the 2007 Sabres weren't built for the playoffs because they dumped a guy like Grier and kept Afinogenov. Well......you never answered my question....Afinogenov had almost 3x as many points per game as Grier.

 

Soooooooo..........how come you can't understand some people would value a guy like Kassian, who has 2x the skill of Grier, but 1/3 the leadership to this point....over Hodgson? Hodgson is exactly what the Sabres had tons of.....skilled, soft, reluctant to battle. "But Cody's young....he hasn't reached his ceiling!!!! Yeah...no sh!t....Kassian is a year younger and has a game built on strength, which takes longer to develop than skill...but just happens to have a similar goal output playing 80% of the ice time as Hodgson.

 

Please....after watching this team the past decade, educated fans understand why I would value Kassian more. I just wish if someone's kid sang happy birthday to the owner, or a player signed a jersey for them....they'd have full disclosure....because I wouldn't assume there is a screw missing from you. I have no ties to Kassian other than loving the fact a guy can kill someone on the ice, busts open half the guys he fights, has hands softer than anyone on this team, and if he is on the pace to score 20 on the 3rd and 4th line now...what will he do in a few years.....all this after watching a culture of Pure Pussydome in my hometown for longer than most Great Danes live.....

 

FIRE DARCY!!

[Johnny DangerFace]

Kassian is a year younger and has a game built on strength, which takes longer to develop than skill...but just happens to have a similar goal output playing 80% of the ice time as Hodgson.

 

Nope.

 

I had this long post typed up and realized there is no arguing with you. Kassian lack of offensive output at this point of his career is not a great sign. He only has a whopping 16 points this year because his shooting percent is near 20 percent. That isn't going to be repeated, and it creates false impressions. See drew stafford in 2010 (even that abnormal year he had a lower shooting percentage than kassian has this year).

 

 

Hodgson on the other hand is producing points. And I don't know if you knew this, but hodgson was always viewed as a much higher prospect than kassian, and isn't a pure goal scorer. He is actually a two-way forward who is still developing that part of his game. Unlike kassian, his progress is going great and he has given us no concerns to be worried. Kassian however, hasn't shown an ounce of offensive upside. When educated hockey fans like ourselves look at this team, you should realize that we lack scoring talent. A person like cody in the system is exactly what we need and want more of

Edited January 30, 2014 by Numark

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

FIRE DARCY!!

 

What's funny.....is the constant sh!t some "negative?" posters took for trying to expose the previous regime.

 

That same protective attitude still is abound....but since Lafontaine and Nolan were hired....those with discernment, common sense, and no conflict of interest, have not felt the need to worry about it so much. I trust those two....I like Murray but still have questions on his value system of players.

 

Let it Snow...Let it Snow...Let it Snow......

[X. Benedict]

What's funny.....is the constant sh!t some "negative?" posters took for trying to expose the previous regime.

 

That same protective attitude still is abound....but since Lafontaine and Nolan were hired....those with discernment, common sense, and no conflict of interest, have not felt the need to worry about it so much. I trust those two....I like Murray but still have questions on his value system of players.

 

Let it Snow...Let it Snow...Let it Snow......

 

I wouldn't want Snow. He's not a very good GM.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

I don't think bringing Grier in is a fair comparison to Kassian. Grier was a smart, physical player who was a fixture on the penalty kill. I don't know if Kassian ever projects as a PK guy even if he realizes his potential. To date he doesn't show 10% of the hockey sense or leadership that Grier brought to the table.

 

Fighting, especially of the staged variety is stupid. But saying that Kassian is a great fighter is the part I take the most offense to. He really seems to be a middle of the road type that is willing but just not that dangerous. And if he really is as productive as some believe he is/can be, he should only drop the gloves 2-3 times a year, tops.

 

As for the 20 goals, if he keeps up this great shot % as referenced above, he's on pace for 17.

[IKnowPhysics]

no conflict of interest

 

[Johnny DangerFace]

I just don't get it. I hope kassian is everything we hope he becomes and reaches his potential. A very solid two way power forward who can put up 60 points. Someone who can change the game with a hit, fight, or goal.

 

But why can't you see what Hodgson can become? He isn't soft and he was projected to a be a two way scoring center who is more than competent in his own zone. He has improved a ton this year skating and defensively, and he is a very consistent point getter which is a big sign there is more to come. This is someone who can carry a line or a team when he gets hot

 

It's so annoying you comparing kassians potential to what you think Cody Hodgson is. This is someone who was a top three prospect in 2010 who is devoting very nicely

Edited January 30, 2014 by Numark

[Robviously]

No....Regier was on record saying they viewed Foligno as a 4th line forward, 3rd at best...2 months after the trade. He was surprised by his success so early. It's out there...as well as the opinions on Foligno by Rene Robert, et al.

 

I am very disappointed with Foligno under Nolan. I figured he would thrive. So far, Stafford is showing much more of a power forward skillset than Foligno under Nolan.

 

Nowhere have I ever said Hodgson is a crappy player or not talented. I am constantly amused however by the Cody Coddling that goes on. You yourself just said the 2007 Sabres weren't built for the playoffs because they dumped a guy like Grier and kept Afinogenov. Well......you never answered my question....Afinogenov had almost 3x as many points per game as Grier.

Actually, yes, I did answer your question. It wasn't a point about toughness being more important than talent; it was a point about the 2007 Sabres being one dimensional relative to the 2006 team (which was balanced). It's amazing that you typed all this out without ever digesting the point I was making like six hours ago.

 

Soooooooo..........how come you can't understand some people would value a guy like Kassian, who has 2x the skill of Grier, but 1/3 the leadership to this point....over Hodgson? Hodgson is exactly what the Sabres had tons of.....skilled, soft, reluctant to battle. "But Cody's young....he hasn't reached his ceiling!!!! Yeah...no sh!t....Kassian is a year younger and has a game built on strength, which takes longer to develop than skill...but just happens to have a similar goal output playing 80% of the ice time as Hodgson.

 

Please....after watching this team the past decade, educated fans understand why I would value Kassian more. I just wish if someone's kid sang happy birthday to the owner, or a player signed a jersey for them....they'd have full disclosure....because I wouldn't assume there is a screw missing from you. I have no ties to Kassian other than loving the fact a guy can kill someone on the ice, busts open half the guys he fights, has hands softer than anyone on this team, and if he is on the pace to score 20 on the 3rd and 4th line now...what will he do in a few years.....all this after watching a culture of Pure Pussydome in my hometown for longer than most Great Danes live.....

If he was the exact same player here in Buffalo, this would not be your assessment.

 

Love that you cherry-pick stats to make this case too. It's all about goals (not points) in a year where his shooting percentage is noticeably higher than it's ever been and apparently toughness has nothing to do with hits. This is your dream player?

 

You also never explained why you don't spend every day on this board praising Foligno. He's out-hitting Kassian more than 2:1 and has just 2 less points on a terrible, dysfunctional team. Oh well. Maybe you'd like him if we traded him.

 

I just don't get it. I hope kassian is everything we hope he becomes and reaches his potential. A very solid two way power forward who can put up 60 points. Someone who can change the game with a hit, fight, or goal.

 

But why can't you see what Hodgson can become? He isn't soft and he was projected to a be a two way scoring center who is more than competent in his own zone. He has improved a ton this year skating and defensively, and he is a very consistent point getter which is a big sign there is more to come. This is someone who can carry a line or a team when he gets hot

 

It's so annoying you comparing kassians potential to what you think Cody Hodgson is. This is someone who was a top three prospect in 2010 who is devoting very nicely

The only way to keep this thread going is to compare ONLY exaggerated recollections of Hodgson's faults to ONLY exaggerated and/or imagined descriptions of Kassian's impact and potential.

[Johnny DangerFace]

And pointing out kassian is playing on the third line is goofy when Hodgson gets ott and leino as line mates. That's 1/2 3rd line, 1/2 3rd ahl line

Edited January 31, 2014 by Numark

[Robviously]

And pointing out kassian is playing on the third line is goofy when Hodgson gets ott and leino as line mates. That's 1/2 3rd line, 1/2 3rd ahl line

And Hodgson is the one the other team's checking line and top defensive pairing key in on. We don't have the Sedins to take the heat off the rest of the team.

[Trettioåtta]

And pointing out kassian is playing on the third line is goofy when Hodgson gets ott and leino as line mates. That's 1/2 3rd line, 1/2 3rd ahl line

 

No. Come on at least be fair. Hodgson sometimes gets to play with D'agostini on his wing

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Steak?

 

Talapia?

 

Smells like fish to me.....

 

 

[Robviously]

 

No. Come on at least be fair. Hodgson sometimes gets to play with D'agostini on his wing

Plus our defense is so good at getting control of the puck and making that first pass going the other way.

[X. Benedict]

I don't think bringing Grier in is a fair comparison to Kassian. Grier was a smart, physical player who was a fixture on the penalty kill. I don't know if Kassian ever projects as a PK guy even if he realizes his potential. To date he doesn't show 10% of the hockey sense or leadership that Grier brought to the table.

 

Fighting, especially of the staged variety is stupid. But saying that Kassian is a great fighter is the part I take the most offense to. He really seems to be a middle of the road type that is willing but just not that dangerous. And if he really is as productive as some believe he is/can be, he should only drop the gloves 2-3 times a year, tops.

 

As for the 20 goals, if he keeps up this great shot % as referenced above, he's on pace for 17.

 

I never thought the Sabres lost in 2007 because of lack of toughness. They were not beat up in that series with Ottawa - the one they lost. They outhit Ottawa....they just got outplayed. I don't think they would have beat Anaheim. But Ottawa won that series at center ice. Not in the corners. Buffalo lost that series on the PP. 2 for 30 in the series. 10%

 

2 for 30 on the PP. Toughness don't mean dick if you are 2 for 30 on the PP.

 

But repeat it long enough and it becomes something else. 12 Mike Griers wouldn't have helped.

2007 - Center Ice....and the PP. I'm sticking with it.

 

2 for 30 on the PP.

 

Word.

 

(obviously my, ahem....math doesn't help my point. I meant 6.67 % on the PP. Toughness can still mean dick at 10% PP. But it definitively don't mean dick at 6.67%)

Edited January 31, 2014 by X. Benedict

[Johnny DangerFace]

Steak?

 

Talapia?

 

Smells like fish to me.....

 

Perhaps salmon? Fried up with lemon juice and spices. Delicious

[K-9]

This is what I dont get.... Foligno is doing what kassian is supposed to be doing at this phase of their development on a team that has scored 41 less goals than Vancouver.

 

Because Foligno has the willingness (read: heart) to do what he's doing. Kassian? Not so much.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[X. Benedict]

Because Foligno has the willingness (read: heart) to do what he's doing. Kassian? Not so much.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Kassian has a higher ceiling in my opinion. But would I trade Foligno for Kassian straight up? Hmmmm.....

 

I bet Foligno has a better chance of outscoring Kassian than Kassian has of catching Hodgson.

 

Kassian 10g 6a 16 pts

Foligno 6g 8a 14 pts

 

Hodgson 14g 15a 29pts

 

Foligno 7 months younger than Kass.

Edited January 31, 2014 by X. Benedict