Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[FolignosJock]

And we lost.

 

 

To a team that had worse centers than we did.....

[dudacek]

And we lost.

 

And the Bruins?

There are a lot of ways to build a cup-winner these days.

The early '80s Islanders template was awesome, but you can't do it in this day and age.

[Trettioåtta]

And we lost.

 

The Pens have two of the best centres of this generation and they have lost every year but one

[FolignosJock]

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle

Tampa Bay - Tyler Johnson

Anaheim - Mathieu Perreault

St Louis - Patrik Berglund

Chicago - Bandon Pirri

 

So 5 out of top 10 teams. The other five teams are rare, and possess unusually good centremen.

Pens - Crosby and Malkin

Boston - Krejci and Bergeron

San Jose - Thornton and Marleau

Colorado - Duchenne and Mackinnon

LA - Kopitar and Richards

 

It is also of note that 80% of those centres who are better than Hodgson are also older than him by a few years

 

 

I would say Duchenne Mackinnon Richards Kopitar and the Boston Centers are just about even pushes at this point in time. Mackinnon and Duchenne I expect to get slightly better than Hodson and the rest I think Cody will pass in the next two years. I also dont even think the argument would be close if we werent so historically terrible at scoring goals

 

The Pens have two of the best centres in the history of the NHL and they have lost every year but one

 

FTFY

 

 

I also bet that those two combined are probably in the top 5 all time for centers on the same team....

[That Aud Smell]

to my eye, Hodgson projects to be good enough to play top-6 minutes as a centerman on a very good NHL team.

 

that's more than enough for me.

 

i'm not against moving him, but i'm perfectly fine with him being one of the pieces around which the team looks to build.

 

To a team that had worse centers than we did.....

to a team that was dressing more than 2 NHL defensemen.

[FolignosJock]

So looking at Chicago's player usage from last year. Their "top line" it is hard to determine which one they choose as their top line but they do often get paired with the other teams top line but Toews starts in the offensive zone against them 65 percent of the time.

 

to my eye, Hodgson projects to be good enough to play top-6 minutes as a centerman on a very good NHL team.

 

that's more than enough for me.

 

i'm not against moving him, but i'm perfectly fine with him being one of the pieces around which the team looks to build.

 

 

to a team that was dressing more than 2 NHL defensemen.

 

Which is what started of defense first mentality hat has resulted in having 15 projected starting defensemen on the roster and in the system lol

[rakish]

I dont believe this at all. I also would like to know where you got the info to compile that.

 

check out my website, http://www.limedata.us/1.php

 

it's last years charts. the chart shows the 5-5 time of the average power play time of your opponent forwards (the Y), and the average PK time for your opponent defenseman(the X). If you look at Buffalo, Regehr, in 5-5 time, saw the highest average PP time by opponents, Pom second, Sekera third. If you look along the X axis Pom, Hodgson, and Vanek saw the defensemen who most played the PK

 

The size of the circle, along with the color, indicates plusminus

Edited January 30, 2014 by RCentered

[FolignosJock]

I dont believe this at all. I also would like to know where you got the info to compile that.

 

check out my website, http://www.limedata.us/1.php

 

it's last years charts. the chart shows the 5-5 time of the average power play time of your opponent forwards (the Y), and the average PK time for your opponent defenseman(the X). If you look at Buffalo, Regehr, in 5-5 time, saw the highest average PP time by opponents, Pomminstein second, Sekera third. If you look along the X axis Pom, Hodgson, and Vanek saw the defensemen who most played the PK

 

The size of the circle, along with the color, indicates plusminus

 

Cant see that at work but obviously the top forward line would see the top D pair most of the time.......

 

 

Again when we were good the Drury Hecht Grier line was the shutdown "third line" who were kind of billed as our second line. However it was the RAV line that was our scoring second line.

Edited January 30, 2014 by FolignosJock

[rakish]

I know I didn't type Pomminsteen, on this same subject, I also made charts for each player as to who he plays against, named X after Mr Bennedict, http://www.limedata.us/9.php

Edited January 30, 2014 by RCentered

[SwampD]

Minnesota - Charlie Coyle

Tampa Bay - Tyler Johnson

Anaheim - Mathieu Perreault

St Louis - Patrik Berglund

Chicago - Bandon Pirri

 

So 5 out of top 10 teams. The other five teams are rare, and possess unusually good centremen.

Pens - Crosby and Malkin

Boston - Krejci and Bergeron

San Jose - Thornton and Marleau

Colorado - Duchenne and Mackinnon

LA - Kopitar and Richards

 

It is also of note that 80% of those centres who are better than Hodgson are also older than him by a few years

Minnesota maybe, but I'm not sure of the rest. Good list, though. In the end, we'll have to wait and see who makes it to at least the conference finals. I don't hate Cody. I still think he's young and hasn't hit his ceiling yet. I just think we need to reach higher if we really want to win the cup.

The Pens have two of the best centres of this generation and they have lost every year but one

That's my point. If you can't win it with them, how the F### were you going to win it with Roy and Connolly.

[FolignosJock]

Minnesota maybe, but I'm not sure of the rest. Good list, though. In the end, we'll have to wait and see who makes it to at least the conference finals. I don't hate Cody. I still think he's young and hasn't hit his ceiling yet. I just think we need to reach higher if we really want to win the cup.

 

That's my point. If you can't win it with them, how the F### were you going to win it with Roy and Connolly.

 

 

HUH? so they didnt win it with them so its not possible? You dont need two elite centers to win the cup. It has been proven over the years the Bruins being the most recent example.

[nfreeman]

And we lost.

 

What is the point of this post? Are you seriously saying that the 2006 Sabres team didn't win the cup because of deficiencies at center? Really?

[SwampD]

What is the point of this post? Are you seriously saying that the 2006 Sabres team didn't win the cup because of deficiencies at center? Really?

yep. Great for the regular season. deficient for the post.

[TrueBlueGED]

I dont believe this at all. I also would like to know where you got the info to compile that.

 

check out my website, http://www.limedata.us/1.php

 

it's last years charts. the chart shows the 5-5 time of the average power play time of your opponent forwards (the Y), and the average PK time for your opponent defenseman(the X). If you look at Buffalo, Regehr, in 5-5 time, saw the highest average PP time by opponents, Pom second, Sekera third. If you look along the X axis Pom, Hodgson, and Vanek saw the defensemen who most played the PK

 

The size of the circle, along with the color, indicates plusminus

 

As has been mentioned, top lines certainly face top defensive pairs, but that doesn't mean they're facing other top scoring lines. Teams create defensively-oriented third lines to face top scoring lines, not to match up against other bottom-9 players.

 

I'm also not sure why you'd try to create your own proxy measure for even strength matchups when there's data directly measuring time on ice against opponents at even strength.

[Robviously]

 

yep. Great for the regular season. deficient for the post.

Completely rewriting history is fun.

 

We lost because we ran out of NHL defensemen. Not because of our centers.

[SwampD]

Completely rewriting history is fun.

 

We lost because we ran out of NHL defensemen. Not because of our centers.

I have never believed that from the start. And what is the excuse for the following year?

[Robviously]

 

I have never believed that from the start. And what is the excuse for the following year?

So as you were watching our entire defense get taken out by injuries, you never believed that it would sink us? You must have been the only one.

 

Not built for the playoffs in 2007. We picked guys like Kotalik and Afinogenov over Dumont and Grier.

[nfreeman]

So as you were watching our entire defense get taken out by injuries, you never believed that it would sink us? You must have been the only one.

 

Not built for the playoffs in 2007. We picked guys like Kotalik and Afinogenov over Dumont and Grier.

 

And McKee -- one of my all-time favorite Sabres.

[That Aud Smell]

I have never believed that from the start. And what is the excuse for the following year?

 

the who, the what now?

 

seriously.

 

Not built for the playoffs in 2007. We picked guys like Kotalik and Afinogenov over Dumont and Grier.

 

yep.

 

And McKee -- one of my all-time favorite Sabres.

 

double yep.

 

2006 was our year. we just ran out of luck. you always need a healthy dose of good luck to win the cup.

[Robviously]

And McKee -- one of my all-time favorite Sabres.

Good call. Who did we pick over McKee that summer? I don't even remember the rationale on that.

 

Tallinder was also never the same after that injury. He was getting Norris Trophy mentions that year and never came close to that level again. Awful.

[SwampD]

So as you were watching our entire defense get taken out by injuries, you never believed that it would sink us? You must have been the only one.

 

Not built for the playoffs in 2007. We picked guys like Kotalik and Afinogenov over Dumont and Grier.

What can I say? I'm brilliant.

the who, the what now?

 

seriously.

 

 

 

yep.

 

 

 

double yep.

 

2006 was our year. we just ran out of luck. you always need a healthy dose of good luck to win the cup.

I also have never believed that we were a shoo-in against Edmonton had we beaten Carolina. Again, what can I say? I'm brilliant.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

I have never believed that from the start. And what is the excuse for the following year?

 

Maybe we want to move this part of the discussion to the Miller thread since our "elite" goalie couldn't hold a lead for 20 minutes.....????

 

 

 

Not built for the playoffs in 2007. We picked guys like Kotalik and Afinogenov over Dumont and Grier.

 

Maybe now you can understand why some here hold Kassian in higher regard than Hodgson. Do me a favor and figure out Afinogenov's PPG versus Grier the time they were on the same team together....then tell me this again.

 

 

[X. Benedict]

Good call. Who did we pick over McKee that summer? I don't even remember the rationale on that.

 

Tallinder was also never the same after that injury. He was getting Norris Trophy mentions that year and never came close to that level again. Awful.

 

Spacho - for two reasons - McKee wanted bank - (4 mil at term) - 2005-06 as good as it was, didn't really have a shot from point on D other than Campbell. (and Kalinin was inconsistent).

 

High ankle.

[Robviously]

Maybe now you can understand why some here hold Kassian in higher regard than Hodgson. Do me a favor and figure out Afinogenov's PPG versus Grier the time they were on the same team together....then tell me this again.

Do me a favor and get a clue. The point about the 2007 team is that we were one dimensional and lost too much of our toughness. That doesn't mean tough (or concept of tough) is better than talent.

 

And if Kassian is so awesome, why aren't you on here praising Marcus Foligno every day? Kassian has 16 points and 60 hits this year for a good team. Foligno has 14 points and *135* hits for a terrible team. Have fun with that.

[FolignosJock]

Do me a favor and get a clue. The point about the 2007 team is that we were one dimensional and lost too much of our toughness. That doesn't mean tough (or concept of tough) is better than talent.

 

And if Kassian is so awesome, why aren't you on here praising Marcus Foligno every day? Kassian has 16 points and 60 hits this year for a good team. Foligno has 14 points and *135* hits for a terrible team. Have fun with that.

 

This is what I dont get.... Foligno is doing what kassian is supposed to be doing at this phase of their development on a team that has scored 41 less goals than Vancouver.