Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[bunomatic]

The thread that just keeps on giving...

[tom webster]

I sort of agree. He is so spot on with the character development and detail, it is scary. It is almost too many things going on at once to really focus if someone doesn't have background. But what you see is all based on truth. Something like Boardwalk Empire is methodical in development and steady. This is fast paced and shift-shift-shift....Sopranos was the happy medium. I was excited after the 2nd episode but it's sort of been a B after that.

 

People in the industry seem to love it or hate it. It's so honest in some light that people are mad it makes everyone look like scumbags. But I can put a name and a face in real life to every one of those characters. That makes it funny to me.

 

 

 

Jeez......I'm not trying to prove with statistics and Darcy Math. People get po'd when I give an honest opinion about what I see with my own eyes and tell me to prove it. These numbers are as close as I can do with subjective matter....that really shouldn't be subjective since anyone that watches the NHL should be able to see the difference between the Sabres and the better teams on a regular basis.

 

If the Sabres and their style of play gets anyone off on a regular basis, congratulations. They also sell geriatric bondage dvd's...so there is an audience for everything.

 

Last word from me cause I really got get back to making a living, but its good thing you aren't trying to prove anything with stats cause you are not.

Mostly, however, I want to say, that its not your specific posts but the aggregate of your posts that leave me amazed. You talk about how you point out some of the good things, and I agree you do, but then you change your argument when a contrary valid answer is given and you say stuff like 40% of the roster needs to be replaced.

You assume the rest of the league shares your view of Kassian yet seem to take it as a given that he was being shopped since December. Shouldn't we then assume that Darcy offered him to Anaheim and Calgary and they weren't interested? Can you accept the possibility that he is just another weak bully who picked on smaller players in Junior but isn't so keen on it when someone fights back?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Last word from me cause I really got get back to making a living, but its good thing you aren't trying to prove anything with stats cause you are not.

Mostly, however, I want to say, that its not your specific posts but the aggregate of your posts that leave me amazed. You talk about how you point out some of the good things, and I agree you do, but then you change your argument when a contrary valid answer is given and you say stuff like 40% of the roster needs to be replaced.

You assume the rest of the league shares your view of Kassian yet seem to take it as a given that he was being shopped since December. Shouldn't we then assume that Darcy offered him to Anaheim and Calgary and they weren't interested? Can you accept the possibility that he is just another weak bully who picked on smaller players in Junior but isn't so keen on it when someone fights back?

I don't think you follow events close enough.

 

Rob Ray a Sabres employee said they were shopping him. Were they? Or was it typical Sabres massaging to make it look good after the fact? I don't know.

 

Kassian......I don't know what he will be, but we sure as hell haven't had anything of what he could be. We've had plenty of Hodgson types.....daddy not included

 

and if you watched his fights in the NHL so far....I think your last bit has been disproven

[LGR4GM]

I don't think you follow events close enough.

 

Rob Ray a Sabres employee said they were shopping him. Were they? Or was it typical Sabres massaging to make it look good after the fact? I don't know.

 

Kassian......I don't know what he will be, but we sure as hell haven't had anything of what he could be. We've had plenty of Hodgson types.....daddy not included

 

and if you watched his fights in the NHL so far....I think your last bit has been disproven

Name the last center prospect of his caliber we had? I agree this team needs grit but to say that Kassian is going to be something we have never had but Hodgson is just another soft player, is short sighted and a clearly slighted of view of him as a player. Hodgson may not hit a lot but he protects the puck well and has great vision. Kassian IMHO had horrendous on ice awareness but protected the puck well and could hit stuff. Its 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other. To be truthful I hope Hodgson in 3 years is 10x the player Kassian is.

 

Want to know the really ironic part of your argument? You hate the fact we always talk about potential that never comes to fruition, like Stafford, but then you argue against trading Kassian because of his potential... We got a more complete hockey player in Hodgson, that is obvious... so we sold potential for something more solid and your still pissed... around and around we go, where we stop nobody knows...

Edited March 3, 2012 by LGR4GM

[tom webster]

I don't think you follow events close enough.

 

Rob Ray a Sabres employee said they were shopping him. Were they? Or was it typical Sabres massaging to make it look good after the fact? I don't know.

 

Kassian......I don't know what he will be, but we sure as hell haven't had anything of what he could be. We've had plenty of Hodgson types.....daddy not included

 

and if you watched his fights in the NHL so far....I think your last bit has been disproven

 

OK, 1 more last word.

 

1) I follow events pretty closely and PA always said I knew the parking ramp attendant, he keeps me informed as well

2) I saw his fights against the Islanders and Flyers and didn't get the feel he was really willing to go untill forced into it and I think the one against the Flyers gained more notoriety because the Flyer got hurt when losing his balance.

[drnkirishone]

I agree that the sabres have to many forwards that don't hit and to few that do. But it is easly fixed by taking 1 of the top 6 and replacing them with a gritty player.

[Eleven]

Name the last center prospect of his caliber we had? I agree this team needs grit but to say that Kassian is going to be something we have never had but Hodgson is just another soft player, is short sighted and a clearly slighted of view of him as a player. Hodgson may not hit a lot but he protects the puck well and has great vision. Kassian IMHO had horrendous on ice awareness but protected the puck well and could hit stuff. Its 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other. To be truthful I hope Hodgson in 3 years is 10x the player Kassian is.

 

Want to know the really ironic part of your argument? You hate the fact we always talk about potential that never comes to fruition, like Stafford, but then you argue against trading Kassian because of his potential... We got a more complete hockey player in Hodgson, that is obvious... so we sold potential for something more solid and your still pissed... around and around we go, where we stop nobody knows...

 

Holy ######. Strong post, Liger.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I agree that the sabres have to many forwards that don't hit and to few that do. But it is easly fixed by taking 1 of the top 6 and replacing them with a gritty player.

You may be right.

 

I've been waiting 5 years for that easy solution.

 

Name the last center prospect of his caliber we had? I agree this team needs grit but to say that Kassian is going to be something we have never had but Hodgson is just another soft player, is short sighted and a clearly slighted of view of him as a player. Hodgson may not hit a lot but he protects the puck well and has great vision. Kassian IMHO had horrendous on ice awareness but protected the puck well and could hit stuff. Its 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other. To be truthful I hope Hodgson in 3 years is 10x the player Kassian is.

 

Want to know the really ironic part of your argument? You hate the fact we always talk about potential that never comes to fruition, like Stafford, but then you argue against trading Kassian because of his potential... We got a more complete hockey player in Hodgson, that is obvious... so we sold potential for something more solid and your still pissed... around and around we go, where we stop nobody knows...

 

Please tell me where I am "pissed"?

 

It isn't about Zack Kassian, a hockey player.

 

It is about the pure avoidance of any players that combine both skill and grit. You haven't had it, you haven't tried to get it, and this is more of the same.

 

Last year I was pounding the table to sell off Connolly, Montador and Stafford for picks, then using a combo of picks and prospects to get 2 real leaders in here. I wasn't opposed to trading Kassian, or whoever was in the pipeline in order to get someone in NOW. We are going into the 2nd year of this, and the leadership column is even weaker than where we were at last year...and you sold off your biggest piece to take a crack at Derek Roy +2"

 

Darcy just used his call a friend lifeline on the $10,000 question.

[LGR4GM]

You may be right.

 

I've been waiting 5 years for that easy solution.

 

 

 

Please tell me where I am "pissed"?

 

It isn't about Zack Kassian, a hockey player.

 

It is about the pure avoidance of any players that combine both skill and grit. You haven't had it, you haven't tried to get it, and this is more of the same.

 

Last year I was pounding the table to sell off Connolly, Montador and Stafford for picks, then using a combo of picks and prospects to get 2 real leaders in here. I wasn't opposed to trading Kassian, or whoever was in the pipeline in order to get someone in NOW. We are going into the 2nd year of this, and the leadership column is even weaker than where we were at last year...and you sold off your biggest piece to take a crack at Derek Roy +2"

 

Darcy just used his call a friend lifeline on the $10,000 question.

From what I have seen and read I completely and emphatically disagree with this. Derek Roy is 5'9" 185lbs and is going on 29yrs old. We know who he is after watching 7 years of his development.

 

Cody Hodgson is 6' and 190lbs and we have seen 2 games and only have 1 week of watching his development. In that 1 week his on ice behavior has been completely and unquestionably different than Derek Roy's during that same period of time. Roy is easy to move off the puck and he likes to carry it all over hell and back. Hodgson ever aware of where he is makes crisp passes than immediately moves to get open for the next pass. They do not play the same style of game.

 

You imply that Hodgson is soft. In what way? He backchecks and goes to the front of the net, works in the corners, does not seem afraid to take a hit to make a play, and always covering his guy not just with his stick but also with his body. We traded an underachieving winger (which should please you) for a player who is much more complete. Milan Lucic is not considered a very good player because he can simply hit people, but because he is a complete all around player that hits ppl. if Hodgson played wing i may agree with you but he is a natural center and a complete natural center who does not run over everyone is more important than a "potentially" lucic like winger.

 

Final thought is that if Vancouver, whom NO one has said has a leadership problem, has fans talking about this kid as though he could captain the team that says twice as much as your own conjecture. Kassian never once showed an ounce of leadership and I have seen Hodgson show a great deal in two games. It has even been discussed.

 

5 years from now we may criticize Darcy for this trade but I will tell you what, its better than 5 years from now listening to ppl bitch and moan that we should have traded kassian when his potential value was at its peak.

Edited March 3, 2012 by LGR4GM

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You may not remember when Derek Roy first joined the Sabres......and was touted for his leadership as he Captained Kitchener to a championship and was mvp. He hustled, and forechecked in the corners (because he had to play wing since the Sabres had Drury-Briere-Connolly), and came back on D, and all that glittered was gold. As far as I know, he didn't have his daddy call the coach, refuse to use team doctors (although maybe he should have last year ;) ), or demand to get traded off the #1 team in the league coming off a Stanley Cup.

 

I LIKED Roy his first few years here.

 

Sorry...I shorted your boy CoHo 1" and 5 lbs. I would think you can see the big picture here. And again, if Kassian is an underachiever in his first 20something games......your boy CoHo had 1 goal and 2 assists in his first 20.

 

Here's the bottom line......Trade Dealine Hooplah + Sabres Hot Streak = ADHD and foggy memory of past 5 years = Joy in Darcyland for another year employment and another $1.5 million is his

[drnkirishone]

 

It is about the pure avoidance of any players that combine both skill and grit. You haven't had it, you haven't tried to get it, and this is more of the same.

 

and you sold off your biggest piece to take a crack at Derek Roy +2"

 

Thats complete ###### and is one of things that bothers me with you. The sabres have spent the last what 2 or 3 drafts targeting big gritty players. That kinda shows they are not avoiding players like that. They just aren't morgaging the farm to trade for nor FA contract one. Darcy obiviously beleives the way to get skilled big players is to draft them.

 

The Roy +2 thing is such incredible BS that I am shocked you keep banging that drum. Everything I have seen/read about Cody is nothing like Roy. The only thing they seem to have in common is your insistance to proclaim Cody Roy +2.

 

Forgive me if I am incorrect in this as it has been 12 or 18 months since this discussion. But weren't you one of the people that proclaimed you need to have quality center depth to win the stanly cup? This was a move to give us center depth. I am sure if Darcy had his wish he woulda gave them some of our Defenseman depth but I feel fairly confident that the only thing that Vancouver wanted was a big young forward that they could put in there bottom 6 this year

[Robviously]

Name the last center prospect of his caliber we had?

Tim Connolly. :ph34r:

 

That's not a slight though. I remember being excited as hell when we brought in Connolly and Pyatt. And Tim looked like he was on the cusp of becoming a superstar when he suffered that concussion against Ottawa in 2006. If not for that concussion, who knows what happens?

[Trettioåtta]

You know you can support the Bruins? There is no need for you to support the Sabres, no doubt they would be devastated, but i feel they would limp on.

 

The Sabres were always going to have a dodgy few years after you lose your two top players, we still made the playoffs twice! Kassian may have had off ice issues, beating a guy up in a pub is not the sign of a tough hockey player, it is the sign of an unhinged thug, perhaps he has off ice issues?

 

Kassian is not the next coming, he is just a hockey prospect, he is not someone you build a club around, he is a component. The bruins need Krejci, Chara and Bergeron more than him. Just like we need Coho (a young talented centre) more than we need Kassian.

 

As for development, i am not sure he is better of in Vancouver, he is playing on the 4th line, so all he is doing is developing his hitting ability, he has skill he should be developing that so when he cracks the NHL full time he can play on a top line and make a difference. 4th line hitters are a dime a dozen.

[drnkirishone]

One of the things that had worried me about Kassian's development is he has already had his Bertuzzi moment. I don't recall to many players that go thru thous kind of things that come out of it playing the same game

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Thats complete ###### and is one of things that bothers me with you. The sabres have spent the last what 2 or 3 drafts targeting big gritty players. That kinda shows they are not avoiding players like that. They just aren't morgaging the farm to trade for nor FA contract one. Darcy obiviously beleives the way to get skilled big players is to draft them.

 

The Roy +2 thing is such incredible BS that I am shocked you keep banging that drum. Everything I have seen/read about Cody is nothing like Roy. The only thing they seem to have in common is your insistance to proclaim Cody Roy +2.

 

Forgive me if I am incorrect in this as it has been 12 or 18 months since this discussion. But weren't you one of the people that proclaimed you need to have quality center depth to win the stanly cup? This was a move to give us center depth. I am sure if Darcy had his wish he woulda gave them some of our Defenseman depth but I feel fairly confident that the only thing that Vancouver wanted was a big young forward that they could put in there bottom 6 this year

 

Right...stack up in the draft......do nothing to active roster.......now trade best hope from draft choices for more of the same.

 

I have never banged the drum that center was most important. Last offseason I wanted Iginla in here with Regehr...I proposed it before Darcy went after Regehr. I said a true leader up front is much more important than center, and that Iginla would open up the ice and take pressure off of Vanek, thus making Roy more valuable as well. He would also teach Stafford how to play RW like a man.

 

I suggested getting Max Talbot as a griity #3 center with offensive upside.

 

That was my plan. You can have all the bling in the world....but if you don't know how to defend yourself, you are going to get your Air Jordans taken from you.

 

The Sabres were always going to have a dodgy few years after you lose your two top players, we still made the playoffs twice!

 

If I could take a post.....and turn it into a fragrance.......and bottle it....and market it........it would be this post....from you my son..........and I would call it Darc'y (you need that little french thingie in there if you really want it to sell).................and we could make millions.

[drnkirishone]

Right...stack up in the draft......do nothing to active roster.......now trade best hope from draft choices for more of the same.

 

I have never banged the drum that center was most important. Last offseason I wanted Iginla in here with Regehr...I proposed it before Darcy went after Regehr. I said a true leader up front is much more important than center, and that Iginla would open up the ice and take pressure off of Vanek, thus making Roy more valuable as well. He would also teach Stafford how to play RW like a man.

 

I suggested getting Max Talbot as a griity #3 center with offensive upside.

 

That was my plan. You can have all the bling in the world....but if you don't know how to defend yourself, you are going to get your Air Jordans taken from you.

Iginla was going nowhere.

 

Max Talbot has offensive upside? Paul Gaustad has put up better numbers then him lol. I do agree he would been great as a 3rd line center for us thou.

 

Kicking the crap outta the bully isn't gonna get you laid wth his girlfriend if you don't know how to score

[Robviously]

Right...stack up in the draft......do nothing to active roster.......now trade best hope from draft choices for more of the same.

 

I have never banged the drum that center was most important. Last offseason I wanted Iginla in here with Regehr...I proposed it before Darcy went after Regehr. I said a true leader up front is much more important than center, and that Iginla would open up the ice and take pressure off of Vanek, thus making Roy more valuable as well. He would also teach Stafford how to play RW like a man.

Yeah, but Calgary probably would have asked for Kassian or McNabb coming back in that trade.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Yeah, but Calgary probably would have asked for Kassian or McNabb coming back in that trade.

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

That's the point...if you are going to blow your wad...don't do it on a 185lb skill guy with potential.....get in the leader this team has been lacking for 5 years.

 

THANK YOU!!!!

[LGR4GM]

THANK YOU!!!

 

That's the point...if you are going to blow your wad...don't do it on a 185lb skill guy with potential.....get in the leader this team has been lacking for 5 years.

 

THANK YOU!!!!

Well here's the thing, we didn't blow our wad on a player in his mid 30's, who has 1 year left on his contract, would have required a secondary trade to get the cap space for him, and has a NMC... and there has been no actual report from Calgary indicating Iginla has been available or that he would like to be moved.

 

Hodgson seems to be a leader, is 12 years younger, and plays a position we need. Kassian for Hodgson is a good trade.

[Robviously]

THANK YOU!!!

 

That's the point...if you are going to blow your wad...don't do it on a 185lb skill guy with potential.....get in the leader this team has been lacking for 5 years.

 

THANK YOU!!!!

He's 34 this season though. I don't think this team is good enough to trade its best prospect for a 34 year old star. We're not 1 guy away. A 34-year-old Jarome Iginla would have been a good addition to the 2006-2007 Sabres, who really were that close.

 

The Sabres had a lot of potential this season that they didn't really live up to (although they're playing better now). They can trade their top prospect for someone else's top prospect. If they traded their top prospect for someone nearing the end of their career, that's a problem.

[Neo]

 

 

Sorry, but I must have missed that post ... this thread is on page 22 now ... ;) .

 

The story I saw was someplace else. So, with two mentions in the news, it must be true ... to quote Joe Jackson "... they wouldn't print it if were not true ..." ... shout out to Neo! :flirt: .

 

" ... enlighten the populace ..."

 

Back at ya, my brother, NS.

[K-9]

One of the things that had worried me about Kassian's development is he has already had his Bertuzzi moment. I don't recall to many players that go thru thous kind of things that come out of it playing the same game

 

That's a very interesting point and you may well be on to something. I remember the reports after he came back from his suspension in juniors saying that he just kind of plateaued. Many said it was because he didn't have anything left to prove at that level. And that's absolutely correct. But he was never this big, aggressive checker so much as just such a physically superior player that when he did hit it usually resulted in a thunderous crunch.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[TheChimp]

Detroit, Boston and New Jersey all are in the bottom 10 in the league in hits. How many guys can they have and how important can hits be when two of the top 4 favorites to win the Cup(Boston and Detroit) are 24th and 25th in the league in hits?

I watched a game once where I saw tons of hitting and RJ was yelling and everyone was cheering and at the end of the game the team had "officially" registered something ridiculous like four total hits. And I looked the next day to see if it was just a type-o but it was still there. It made me wonder how often that occurs and what, exectly, the people scoring the game are calling "hits".

[drnkirishone]

Hits needs to become a offical stat tracked BY the NHL instead of tracked by the in house stats teams

[deluca67]

Goal, assist and 7 hits? I think Kassian will do just fine with the Canucks.