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Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

shrader

By shrader
in The Aud Club

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Ghost of Dwight Drane First Liner

Ghost of Dwight Drane

Posted
Posted

Of course the narrative is obvious, but I think it's fabricated by the internets. When has Kassian shown he bows to pressure from fans or from "the room"? I doubt he's being pressured from the inside anyway, his stats for his first few appearances are okay. Canucks fans are slightly more sophisticated than, say, Flyers or Bruins fans, and I wonder if they really care if Kassian creams someone on the Sabres. They will want him to do it when it matters in a game, in the playoffs, but now I'm sure they'd rather he score one.

 

Kassian himself said the other day that he's going to try and "fly under the radar" for a while. Doing a Lucic on Miller or ending the season for Hodgson tomorrow would be the exact opposite of that.

 

He's not going to play dirty. He's going to use his 220lb, unconstrained body and do what is natural to do.

 

Does he want to be the new guy, or does he want to be a Canuck?

 

You can wear the jersey the first few weeks, but if you show you are willing to drive your friend through the boards for the good of your team, then you are truly a Canuck. That's the main reason they got him this year. The 20-30 goals will come, but he is a beefcake and it is in his best interest to take advantage of a golden opportunity. It shouldn't be out of character for him. If you see Hodgson do something stupid like elbow a Sedin....that doesn't make sense.

 

Ruff knows what's coming. If he is smart he has Kaleta try and goad him early.

tom webster First Liner

tom webster

Posted
Posted

He's not going to play dirty. He's going to use his 220lb, unconstrained body and do what is natural to do.

 

Does he want to be the new guy, or does he want to be a Canuck?

 

You can wear the jersey the first few weeks, but if you show you are willing to drive your friend through the boards for the good of your team, then you are truly a Canuck. That's the main reason they got him this year. The 20-30 goals will come, but he is a beefcake and it is in his best interest to take advantage of a golden opportunity. It shouldn't be out of character for him. If you see Hodgson do something stupid like elbow a Sedin....that doesn't make sense.

 

Ruff knows what's coming. If he is smart he has Kaleta try and goad him early.

 

I apologize because I have only read the last few posts but all of this assumes that Kassian wants to be the big tough guy. Since the trade I have heard Peca, Ray, Strahan and Roenick all imply that Kassian wants to be a scorer as opposed to an enforcer and that it will be incumbent on him to understand his role once he gets to the Canucks.

I agree with DD that this is his opportunity. I just don't know that he has the desire.

ROCBuffalo Prospect

ROCBuffalo

Posted
Posted

The wonder in my mind is now whether Kassian was trade bait all along.

 

Foligno has been in development in the minors which is the normal organization MO, while Kassian might have been brought up too soon.

 

Kassian will probably see 4th line minutes in Vancouver while Foligno has been getting much more ice time.

 

Compare ...Foligno logging first line AHL minutes while Kassian logging 4th line NHL minutes. Makes me wonder.

 

Right, he is the Amerks second points leader, first in goals, and was only brought up when we had 10 guys out. Since Kassian is gone Foligno is now my favorite prospect, allowing him to develop. I think it can be agreed by everyone we need some bigger wingers.

tom webster First Liner

tom webster

Posted
Posted

So if that's what it takes to play in Vancouver, remind me again what happened throughout the playoffs last year.

 

I may never forgive the Canucks for last year. Since the lockout two teams that have won the Cup could be considered physical(yes I know the others had several physical elements and grit) and yet the Bruins winning has helped perpetuate the belief that you need this plethora of grit and tough guys throughout your line up.

Like every sport there are a multitude ways to win a Cup.

LastPommerFan First Liner

LastPommerFan

Posted
Posted (edited)

I may never forgive the Canucks for last year. Since the lockout two teams that have won the Cup could be considered physical(yes I know the others had several physical elements and grit) and yet the Bruins winning has helped perpetuate the belief that you need this plethora of grit and tough guys throughout your line up.

Like every sport there are a multitude ways to win a Cup.

 

Indeed, the Bruins are the worst thing that has happened to the discourse on how to build a hockey team since Anaheim, when everyone paid attention to the fighting majors and ignored the pair of Norris trophy winners that were on the ice all but 15 minutes a night. 6 minutes a night. (i just looked it up)

Edited by LastPommerFan
nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

Posted
Posted

I may never forgive the Canucks for last year. Since the lockout two teams that have won the Cup could be considered physical(yes I know the others had several physical elements and grit) and yet the Bruins winning has helped perpetuate the belief that you need this plethora of grit and tough guys throughout your line up.

Like every sport there are a multitude ways to win a Cup.

 

I would just add that while everyone talks about toughness being the difference in the SCF last year, IMHO goaltending was the bigger difference. Luongo was mediocre to lousy in 4 out of 7 games.

Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted

I would just add that while everyone talks about toughness being the difference in the SCF last year, IMHO goaltending was the bigger difference. Luongo was mediocre to lousy in 4 out of 7 games.

 

Much agreed.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

Advanced stats certainly work the best in baseball because it is a far more individual sport than others. That said, I think they can be an important tool in other sports as long as the analysis is not based entirely on them. Burke is also an idiot when he says it never won a championship, since the Red Sox used them, Blackhawks and Penguins use them, and more. Interesting anecdote, Pittsburgh has used advanced metrics to tell James Neal where to shoot the puck from.

Campy Fourth Liner

Campy

Posted
Posted

I apologize because I have only read the last few posts but all of this assumes that Kassian wants to be the big tough guy. Since the trade I have heard Peca, Ray, Strahan and Roenick all imply that Kassian wants to be a scorer as opposed to an enforcer and that it will be incumbent on him to understand his role once he gets to the Canucks.

I agree with DD that this is his opportunity. I just don't know that he has the desire.

 

Only time will tell for sure; I'm inclined to believe he doesn't based on what I've seen of his play in Buffalo and read of his play in Rochester. And that's why I can't help but think he'll be under a fair amount of pressure. Vancouver is my 2nd favorite, so I hope he develops into the beast that most Canuck fans think he will.

 

But I do have reservations...

SDS All Star

SDS

Posted
Posted

Interesting anecdote, Pittsburgh has used advanced metrics to tell James Neal where to shoot the puck from.

 

Link?

... All Star

...

Posted
Posted

It was from a thread on another forum. I'm at the gym at the moment, but I'll dig up the link when I get home.

\

 

Get a good sweat in for us.

... All Star

...

Posted
Posted

About to get some beers in for the rest of us.

 

Oh, God. I don't think I could handle alchohol right now. Enjoy it.

deluca67 All Star

deluca67

Posted
Posted

I apologize because I have only read the last few posts but all of this assumes that Kassian wants to be the big tough guy. Since the trade I have heard Peca, Ray, Strahan and Roenick all imply that Kassian wants to be a scorer as opposed to an enforcer and that it will be incumbent on him to understand his role once he gets to the Canucks.

I agree with DD that this is his opportunity. I just don't know that he has the desire.

It's far more likely he is just repeating what he has been told by Sabre coaches since he turned pro. Hopefully the Canucks coaches can undo what the Sabres have done.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

http://thehockeywriters.com/james-neal-fast-start/

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/the-moneypuck-revolution/article2178766/page1/

 

The first link has the blurb about Neal in particular (look just below the video box for it). Pretty much says the stats were used in conjunction with a lot of video work to determine the best shot locations. To me, this is the exact way in which the advanced metrics should be used--in combination with other things.

 

The second link has some more stuff on the statistics revolution. The second page even goes on to say that any analytics department would have advised against Philly signing Bryzgalov to his contract. Makes sense, seeing as what Mike Smith has done in the Phoenix system.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

It's far more likely he is just repeating what he has been told by Sabre coaches since he turned pro. Hopefully the Canucks coaches can undo what the Sabres have done.

 

So basically, if he fails, it was Ruff who ruined him. And if he succeeds, it's because Vigneault salvaged him from Ruff's near-ruining. :rolleyes:

  • Like (+1) 1
dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

Posted
Posted (edited)

INteresting that the Sabres have an analytics department. It does seem like the type of thing Darcy would be interested in.

And I wonder how much of it was applied to Boyes, Regehr, Leino, Ehrhoff and Hodgson.

Edited by dudacek
Weave Hall of Famer

Weave

Posted
Posted

INteresting that the Sabres have an analytics department. It does seem like the type of thing Darcy would be interested in.

And I wonder how much of it was applied to Boyes, Regehr, Leino, Ehrhoff and Hodgson.

 

I'm pretty sure the Corsi number that is used in conversation around here was developed by Sabres' Jim Corsi.

Ghost of Dwight Drane First Liner

Ghost of Dwight Drane

Posted
Posted

So basically, if he fails, it was Ruff who ruined him. And if he succeeds, it's because Vigneault salvaged him from Ruff's near-ruining. :rolleyes:

 

 

Nope....Kassian is way too young and hasn't been around the Sabres long enough to be ruined for life. That's why I am so excited to see this progression. If Kassian fails, it isn't on Ruff and the Sabres.

 

That's always been my point. The guys who go away from Buffalo and don't progress....usually life long Sabres. Kotalik, Kalinin, Max....those types of guys. It's like letting an orcha whale who spent his whole life in captivity out in the wild. He's dead.

 

This will be the first true power forward who started in Buffalo and got out before the age most guys hit the NHL.

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deluca67 All Star

deluca67

Posted
Posted

So basically, if he fails, it was Ruff who ruined him. And if he succeeds, it's because Vigneault salvaged him from Ruff's near-ruining. :rolleyes:

That would depend on the extent of the damage done. Was Kassian already talking to Gaustad about learning face-offs? The kid may be too far gone.

carpandean First Liner

carpandean

Posted
Posted

Nope....Kassian is way too young and hasn't been around the Sabres long enough to be ruined for life. That's why I am so excited to see this progression. If Kassian fails, it isn't on Ruff and the Sabres.

 

...

 

This will be the first true power forward who started in Buffalo and got out before the age most guys hit the NHL.

 

By that same token, if he's successful, isn't it too early to say that he wouldn't have been equally successful here?

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