Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

[Weave]

 

I am talking of the need to bash a kid as he's out the door to make yourself feel good.

 

You've mentioned this a number of times now. Who's bashing Kassian?

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

At least you are sharp enough to figure it out.

 

There's point being, I don't care if people want to feel they have a great asset in Hodgson. I hope he is. It is the psychological NEED to feel so validated by doing something, that people have to bash Kasian....a 20yo big body.....for being some sort of failure, when in actuality his career has started out much better than Hodgson, even being a year younger. The same people that will beg us to forgive Tyler Myers for not playing physical "yet" because he needs to "grow into himself", feel the NEED to villify Kassian who is younger and has 150+ games less experience than Myers as some sort of talentless filler. Don't worry though.....we can't possibly think of moving Myers in any deal because he sure as shinola is going to be the next Chara. But Kassian? Pffffttt!!! What a loser! They guy only caved in 2 guys faces in fights and scored 3 goals in his first 6 games while it took Hodgson 29 games to score that many.

 

People have strange psychies.......NOT ONCE did I say this was a horrible deal. Once we figured out Nashville gave a 2012 1st and Buff a 2013 4th....I said that was a good deal. All I ever have done with these deals is point out that of the Sabres 3 biggest needs......1)Heart+Toughness 2)Leadership 3)Centers.....the Sabres gained ground on one and lost ground in 2.

 

Hodgson is a young, talented center who can play now and contribute offense while some day he may become a #1 ceneter type. Hype him all you want. A team that was seconds away from winning a Stanley Cup however feels that Kassian and Gragnani increase their chances of getting the job done right this year over Hodgson. I don't take that lightly.

 

We went through the trade deadline last year, July 1st last year after spending $80 million in salaries, and the team took a swan dive for 3 months of the season while not making one move to try and stop the bleeding. We stand here this afternoon with the exact same core of players, minus Gaustad, and a top 3 lines in which the biggest physical threat comes from a 5'4" forward with a huge heart. I'm sure they braintrust is working on a masterplan for this July 1st where they can "almost" land Parise, or "almost" convince Nash that Buffalo isn't quite as ###### as Columbus as both a franchise and a city.

 

Enjoy the excitement of trade day.....enjoy the freshness of a new young player to evaluate.......but instead of some people using their energy to villify a player or a poster for ruining your buzz....maybe people need to honestly evaluate where things stand and what is really being said. There are always going to be differences of opinions. That's why there are markets, be it stock, commodity, horse, or hockey player. If the people watching over some of these same posters 401k's and IRA's had the same results as the Sabres have the past 5 seasons compared to the average, or the best.....would you still be happy?

 

All "Team Stormcloud" is are a few guys stuck in a Union pension fund...watching the administrators plunk almost every last dollar into Enron. We have no control over it....all we can do is warn and bitch.

 

!I think you are missing a couple of items in your analysis, but i think you are dead right in your assessment of the psycho-social behavior of the fans parting with Kassian. What we gave up was a very good player with great player potential. In all markets, things of value, like a top center prospect, come at a cost. People need to give the Zack Attacks a rest.

 

Now to your analysis of the team's progress. I disagree with your ranking of the top three needs. I put leadership change first, centers a close second, and toughness third. I will grant that toughness was not addressed yesterday. But it has been addressed in the past 12 months. That's exactly what butler for Regehr was. Do we need more, absolutely, but it has been identified and the process of addressing it has begun.

 

Leadership change is huge. I put the leadership core 12 months ago as Connolly, Roy, Vanek, Pommer, Goose, and Miller. Fully a third of that group is gone, the hardest working, and probably least naturally talented of the group was made captain. I think the remaining 4 are taking notice that not winning is no longer acceptable as long as you make the revenue numbers. If roy is moved in the next 12 months half tour "core" will have moved on in two years or less. I'd say that qualifies as addressing it.

 

And as far as centers are concerned. I hope we're not done, but i think this was the first step. Yes we still need a few tough wingers, but you know you have to give to get. Don't over value the Lucic types. The 3 cup teams before Boston won by being rediculously talentes. Detroit has exactly zero centers over 6'. Though is good, but it's not the end all of a hockey team.

 

(Typing this on my phone, so i apologize for any typos)

 

[calti]

People focus too much on Buffalo's size. I think the main problem is lack of real talent/scoring ability. Briere was our best player--and still would be at least our 2nd or 3rd best at his advancing age.

[darksabre]

You've mentioned this a number of times now. Who's bashing Kassian?

 

No one, but that would ruin his argument that we're all out of line for liking Hodgson more.

[K-9]

You've mentioned this a number of times now. Who's bashing Kassian?

 

From what I can gather reading his posts, both to others and in response to my own, it's not the bashing of Kassian it's the glorifying of Hodgson.

 

Whatever that is.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[deluca67]

People focus too much on Buffalo's size. I think the main problem is lack of real talent/scoring ability. Briere was our best player--and still would be at least our 2nd or 3rd best at his advancing age.

That tends to happen when a monster rolls over your goalie, pretty much ending your playoff hopes, and no one on the team does a thing about it. Were sensitive that way.

 

From what I can gather reading his posts, both to others and in response to my own, it's not the bashing of Kassian it's the glorifying of Hodgson.

 

Whatever that is.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I hope the kid does really well, if ends up not being the next Briere he will be crucified like Roy by many of these same posters.

[Trettioåtta]

I think the folks in TSC (sorry but that is lame, just saying) fail to appreciate two things:

 

1) There is something called enjoying the moment

2) We have not 'forgiven' Darcy

 

As for point one, people are excited something happened, especially when it did not seem likely, he got a damn good prospect out of it and gave up a lot to get him. It is exciting, trades are exciting, that is what is getting people chatting. This brings me onto the second point, which is that you seem to think that because we are excited about getting hodgson that we now think we are a cup contender? That is moronic. We are on our ways to being one, Darcy's job is not done, no-one thinks it is. I expect a hell of a lot of movement on draft day.

 

As for people talking about rebuild mode: TP might have refused to allow a full rebuild - i know if i was spending ###### loads of money on Leino, Vanek, Myers etc. i would not want someone asking for me to shell it out for nothing.

[shrader]

From what I can gather reading his posts, both to others and in response to my own, it's not the bashing of Kassian it's the glorifying of Hodgson.

 

Whatever that is.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Actually it's called putting a negative spin on something that many people are happy with just to ruffle a few feathers. That is his MO and it always has been. He has even admitted as much several times.

[deluca67]

I think the folks in TSC (sorry but that is lame, just saying) fail to appreciate two things:

 

1) There is something called enjoying the moment

2) We have not 'forgiven' Darcy

 

As for point one, people are excited something happened, especially when it did not seem likely, he got a damn good prospect out of it and gave up a lot to get him. It is exciting, trades are exciting, that is what is getting people chatting. This brings me onto the second point, which is that you seem to think that because we are excited about getting hodgson that we now think we are a cup contender? That is moronic. We are on our ways to being one, Darcy's job is not done, no-one thinks it is. I expect a hell of a lot of movement on draft day.

 

As for people talking about rebuild mode: TP might have refused to allow a full rebuild - i know if i was spending ###### loads of money on Leino, Vanek, Myers etc. i would not want someone asking for me to shell it out for nothing.

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

Edited February 29, 2012 by DeLuca67

[TrueBlueGED]

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

 

No, it isn't. For that to be valid, it would have to be true that Kassian was shipped off because he was too tough. Kassian was shipped off because that was what it took to fill (or attempt to, since we're not sure yet) a gaping hole on our roster. Vancouver, or any team, isn't trading their top organizational prospect for Drew Stafford and his contract.

[FolignosJock]

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

 

 

What?? How is the bolded a valid concern?? McNabbs game is very similar to weber or regehr

[Trettioåtta]

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

 

They have a future here if they cannot be sold for a product that is better/more urgently required. It is that simple. We are not the leafs and we are not the bruins; Lindy's system is not a heavy hitting one, this doesn't matter - if they play his system and hit that is fine, if they just want to hit and slow the game down then we have no need for them in this team. However, based on what i have seen of their game, they will fit in fine.

 

Hell, the Bruins should not even be the champs. There was a reason Vancouver burnt the night they lost and it was because of their overpayed goalie. Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Vancouver play a skilled system based around the centre position. I would rather emulate them than the Bruins. And yes, Vancouver traded for Kassian despite this, however, when you have a glut of centre you can afford and need to trade for the final piece - which they HOPE is Kassian.

 

Everyone would be happier if we traded Stafford for Hodgson. Why is this relevant? I would have been even happier if had traded Kotalik for Hodgson! They wanted Kassian, they got Kassian, they gave up a lot to get him.

[K-9]

Actually it's called putting a negative spin on something that many people are happy with just to ruffle a few feathers. That is his MO and it always has been. He has even admitted as much several times.

 

Oh, I've known GoDD for a while now from when he was just DD on the TSW and PPP boards. I think you have him pegged. He's obviously very bright and can be funny at times but his propensity to insult posters cancels that out and then some.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

 

Are you implying that Kassian was traded because he didn't "fit the Status Quo mold?"

 

Some of us might argue that Hodgson represents so much MORE of what this franchise is missing.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[deluca67]

Oh, I've known GoDD for a while now from when he was just DD on the TSW and PPP boards. I think you have him pegged. He's obviously very bright and can be funny at times but his propensity to insult posters cancels that out and then some.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

 

 

Are you implying that Kassian was traded because he didn't "fit the Status Quo mold?"

 

Some of us might argue that Hodgson represents so much MORE of what this franchise is missing.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Not "implying" I'm saying it. The Kassian pick was so far outside the box for Status Quo that they had no idea what to do with him. Lindy has no idea how to coach a player like that.

 

This team does need some additional offensive talent, it wasn't lack of goal scoring that sent this season on the downward spiral. It was being embarrassed on a national level by Lucic.

[FolignosJock]

Not "implying" I'm saying it. The Kassian pick was so far outside the box for Status Quo that they had no idea what to do with him. Lindy has no idea how to coach a player like that.

 

This team does need some additional offensive talent, it wasn't lack of goal scoring that sent this season on the downward spiral. It was being embarrassed on a national level by Lucic.

 

 

I just dont believe that. Goal scoring was a much bigger problem than the lucic incident. How can you say lindy cant coach a player like kassian??? How is kassian some special player??? he has some offensive ability as a big guy he isnt mario, he isnt malkin. You dont need to be coached in a particular way when you are that special. Kassian wasnt that special

[TrueBlueGED]

Not "implying" I'm saying it. The Kassian pick was so far outside the box for Status Quo that they had no idea what to do with him. Lindy has no idea how to coach a player like that.

 

This team does need some additional offensive talent, it wasn't lack of goal scoring that sent this season on the downward spiral. It was being embarrassed on a national level by Lucic.

 

He's playing the 4th line with Malhotra and Lapierre in Vancouver. Guess Vigneault doesn't have any idea what to do with him either, and they just traded for him.

[deluca67]

I just dont believe that. Goal scoring was a much bigger problem than the lucic incident. How can you say lindy cant coach a player like kassian??? How is kassian some special player??? he has some offensive ability as a big guy he isnt mario, he isnt malkin. You dont need to be coached in a particular way when you are that special. Kassian wasnt that special

Under Ruff he never had a chance to be.

 

Look at what the Sabres did to Gaustad's game and now Kassian. It's almost poetic that they both got moved on the same day.

[Ross Rhea]

GoDD, both Gaustad and Kassian were on THIS team THIS year. Where was this toughness ? Where was this grittiness? Where was the leadership that these two exhibited? I never saw it. You can't lose something you never had in the first place. If Kassian was the kind of player we wish he was he would have made damn sure he went after any Bruin, didn't even have to be Lucic. in any game he was in the line up against them. We didn't get that from him and I do not believe that Ruff was stifling his physical ability. Kassian just doesn't have it.

 

whew, am i glad the sabres don't count on you for advice.

[deluca67]

He's playing the 4th line with Malhotra and Lapierre in Vancouver. Guess Vigneault doesn't have any idea what to do with him either, and they just traded for him.

I would say putting him on a line with a guy with 178 hits in 63 games is the exact right thing to do with Kassian. If Kassian is going to make his mark in the NHL it has to start with his physical game. I think that is the part Lindy could never figure out.

[K-9]

Not "implying" I'm saying it. The Kassian pick was so far outside the box for Status Quo that they had no idea what to do with him. Lindy has no idea how to coach a player like that.

 

This team does need some additional offensive talent, it wasn't lack of goal scoring that sent this season on the downward spiral. It was being embarrassed on a national level by Lucic.

 

So the Sabres made the mistake of drafting Kassian in the first place and then realized that Lindy has no idea how to coach him so they called the Canucks and made the deal because it just wasn't working out in Buffalo. It had nothing to do with the fact that in order to get a prospect of Hodgson's potential at a position of critical need it would take another prospect with equal potential. Interesting take.

 

There is no doubt that the Lucic incident was the seminal moment of this team's season. On that we can agree forever.

 

But that is a separate and far larger issue than what trading Kassian for Hodgson represents.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[TrueBlueGED]

I would say putting him on a line with a guy with 178 hits in 63 games is the exact right thing to do with Kassian. If Kassian is going to make his mark in the NHL it has to start with his physical game. I think that is the part Lindy could never figure out.

 

Maybe you're right. I just think the kid needs to learn how to play at the professional level, not get 10 minutes per game on the 4th line. Even before the trade I wanted him down in Rochester getting 18 minutes on the top line, maybe making a playoff run in the AHL. Playing on that line might help bring out his physicality consistently, but I don't see it doing much for the rest of his game.

[FolignosJock]

Under Ruff he never had a chance to be.

 

Look at what the Sabres did to Gaustad's game and now Kassian. It's almost poetic that they both got moved on the same day.

 

gaustad can hardly skate, ruff might have salvaged his career

Edited February 29, 2012 by cvanvol

[Eleven]

I'm "freemaning" this, because a lot has been said...

 

BHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA

 

Isn't this flat out saying you made a mistake? They both went in the same 2008 draft and Burke could have selected Hodgson but instead four picks earlier selected Luke Schenn. Now, less than four years later, he can't trade the 2008 6th overall pick for the 2008 10th overall pick That's ironic and hilarious.

 

Maybe it's Burke whom other GMs won't deal with.

 

Amen to that. I look forward to the assessment of Kassian after the regular season ends. That's a better sample size.

 

Even then, it really isn't. Fans will go nuts over immediate results, but we're dealing with two rooks, here. Let me know in 2013-14.

 

 

Looks like you dodged my point. You claim we got weaker in leadership. That must be because you thought Gausted was an important leader on this team, a team that you routinely run down for a lack of leadership and claim that it is one of the biggest needs WITH Gausted still here. I don't recall you touting Gausted's leadership role. Did I miss that?

 

If you want to totally disregard Cody's leadership potential - that's fine, but calling the situation a downgrade is just suiting your rant and not supported by your previous opinions or by the realities of this team.

 

Oh... ..SNAP!

 

 

Some people need to come up with a label for themselves. It's completely unnecessary and only serves to sever the place into a few different cliques.

 

Yep. Speaking of that logo...

 

 

That tends to happen when a monster rolls over your goalie, pretty much ending your playoff hopes, and no one on the team does a thing about it. Were sensitive that way.

 

 

I hope the kid does really well, if ends up not being the next Briere he will be crucified like Roy by many of these same posters.

 

You mean you.

 

Gaustad for a first was exciting.

 

If the Sabres would have given up a Stafford for Hodgson I would be ecstatic. Kassian represents so much of what this franchise is missing. I have real concerns for Foligno and McNabb going forward. Do they really have a future here in Buffalo or will they eventually be shipped out because they don't fit the Status Quo mold? It's a valid concern.

 

While you criticize (rightly) the re-signing of Stafford, you simultaneously criticize the failure of a Staff-for-CoHo deal? (1) You've been touting that Vancouver's front office is smarter than Buffalo's; (2) Vancouver wanted a "tough guy" (not sure that Kass is, but that's their bet) and not a purported scorer; (3) you and everyone here wants a center. YOUR WORDS: "At any price." Well, what if CoHo is him, and the freaking price was Kassian?

 

There are enough reasons to bitch without making new ones up. Good Lord.

[deluca67]

Maybe you're right. I just think the kid needs to learn how to play at the professional level, not get 10 minutes per game on the 4th line. Even before the trade I wanted him down in Rochester getting 18 minutes on the top line, maybe making a playoff run in the AHL. Playing on that line might help bring out his physicality consistently, but I don't see it doing much for the rest of his game.

Honestly, IMO, he is too young to worry about the rest of his game. Perfect the aspect of his game that he should be able to excel at and then start adding to it. It's a big step up physically to the NHL, let the kid adjust his physical game to the NHL first.

[TrueBlueGED]

gaustad can hardly skate, ruff might have salvaged his career

 

He certainly made him a bunch of money. If Gaustad were just a slow, plodding 4th line bully, he wouldn't be getting anywhere near 5 years $15 million this year (not sure he'll get exactly that, but I wouldn't be surprised if he got over $2.5 for 4). I could deal with some thinking I was ruined if it made me a few million ;)