Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 So, Lindy chooses late in a game, where we need a goal, against a team we are fighting for a playoff spot against and don't want to give points to, to teach Vanek a lesson using the same method that hasn't worked with him his entire carreer here. ...brilliant... Another great example of why LR has been coaching here for what seems like forever ... :rolleyes: . I said up thread that you never bench one of your best players, who is counted on to score goals, anytime in any game.
apuszczalowski Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Another great example of why LR has been coaching here for what seems like forever ... :rolleyes: . I said up thread that you never bench one of your best players, who is counted on to score goals, anytime in any game. you are right, Your best players should be immune to any discipline no matter what they do. This method has worked out great for the Caps with Ovie
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 you are right, Your best players should be immune to any discipline no matter what they do. This method has worked out great for the Caps with Ovie Scroll up to my first post on this matter. I said you chew his ass out in the locker room, but you don't sit him when the game is on the line.
apuszczalowski Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Scroll up to my first post on this matter. I said you chew his ass out in the locker room, but you don't sit him when the game is on the line. what if his ass has already been chewed out in the locker room before about this? what if just before the game the team was told that that kind of play was going to be disciplined?
SwampD Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 what if his ass has already been chewed out in the locker room before about this? what if just before the game the team was told that that kind of play was going to be disciplined? Oh, cool! The What If game! What if Someone else was the coach of the Sabres (someone who came out of nowhere and we were told could never replace Lindy) and that coach actually got through to Vanek and he became the 50 goal scorer we thought he could be and we won the Cup?
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 what if his ass has already been chewed out in the locker room before about this? what if just before the game the team was told that that kind of play was going to be disciplined? I don't know what to say. LR should call a time-out (can they still do that?) and huddle with the team and give Vanek an earful, while the rest take it all in. Then put him on the ice the next shift. Play to win and the best chance to do that is with your best goal scorer on the ice.
Jsixspd Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 That was pretty much my reaction too. Not surprising, but not something you'd expect to be vocalized. This is incredibly frustrating. How could Thomas Vanek be out of 'rope' but not Roy and Stafford? Let's divide PIM by goals scored, and see how it looks THEN? Those guys have 2-3 times as many PIMs per goal scored as Vanek. And again, Ruff should be looking at the stats for the league - Pommer's got low PIM for his goals, but that's unusual. Vanek is mid-pack in PIMS for guys that have scored comparable or more goals than he. I'm sorry - but Roy and Stafford both need to go in the off-season - and if Ruff doesn't see that, Lindy sorry but you might have to go to the team that takes the two Bobsy Twins (if we're lucky).
dEnnis the Menace Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 This is incredibly frustrating. How could Thomas Vanek be out of 'rope' but not Roy and Stafford? Let's divide PIM by goals scored, and see how it looks THEN? Those guys have 2-3 times as many PIMs per goal scored as Vanek. And again, Ruff should be looking at the stats for the league - Pommer's got low PIM for his goals, but that's unusual. Vanek is mid-pack in PIMS for guys that have scored comparable or more goals than he. I'm sorry - but Roy and Stafford both need to go in the off-season - and if Ruff doesn't see that, Lindy sorry but you might have to go to the team that takes the two Bobsy Twins (if we're lucky). I agree with what you're saying about consistency. I do think that Roy should be sat too, but it's harder to sit him if we're trying to trade him. PIMs isn't the only thing to look at though. The type and where is the biggest factor, and I'd say 3/4 of Vanek's Penalties are offensive zone, lazy penalties, and given that we're not openly trading him, then bench him. If we weren't trading Roy, I'd hope he be benched too, because his infractions are no better. And like someone else said, for a team that struggles to maintain offensive zone control, those kind of penalties are the worst to take! Like I said, I agree with you, I just wanted to clarify my position (mostly by reiterating what other people have said). I need coffee now...
apuszczalowski Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I don't know what to say. LR should call a time-out (can they still do that?) and huddle with the team and give Vanek an earful, while the rest take it all in. Then put him on the ice the next shift. Play to win and the best chance to do that is with your best goal scorer on the ice. Yeah, that works too, waste a time out to rip him infront of the rest of the team and then tell him to go out there and score because your the only guy that can do it for them. I agree with what you're saying about consistency. I do think that Roy should be sat too, but it's harder to sit him if we're trying to trade him. PIMs isn't the only thing to look at though. The type and where is the biggest factor, and I'd say 3/4 of Vanek's Penalties are offensive zone, lazy penalties, and given that we're not openly trading him, then bench him. If we weren't trading Roy, I'd hope he be benched too, because his infractions are no better. And like someone else said, for a team that struggles to maintain offensive zone control, those kind of penalties are the worst to take! Like I said, I agree with you, I just wanted to clarify my position (mostly by reiterating what other people have said). I need coffee now... Thats ehat most have been arguing in this thread, you can look at the number of PIMs and it isn't going to be as telling as looking at the kind of penalties and where and when they are occuring. But its just easier to say Ruffs an idiot for benching the star when the games on the line. I figured TSC would be ecstatic about this? Don't they want the Sabres to throw the season so they can sell everyone off and get the top pick in the draft?
SwampD Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Yeah, that works too, waste a time out to rip him infront of the rest of the team and then tell him to go out there and score because your the only guy that can do it for them. Thats ehat most have been arguing in this thread, you can look at the number of PIMs and it isn't going to be as telling as looking at the kind of penalties and where and when they are occuring. But its just easier to say Ruffs an idiot for benching the star when the games on the line. I figured TSC would be ecstatic about this? Don't they want the Sabres to throw the season so they can sell everyone off and get the top pick in the draft? Actually, it appears that it is easier to just accept every move Lindy makes as the right one. TP does.
LabattBlue Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Jesus...... Freakin'...... Christ................ What a TOOL Ruff is! This is beyond ridiculous. I feel like crying. Seriously. There is nothing more that needs to be said to make a case for Lindy getting the boot. I don't care if he goes to another team and wins twenty Stanley Cups. Just GTFO, and take Regier with you! :angry:
waldo Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 There is nothing more that needs to be said to make a case for Lindy getting the boot. I don't care if he goes to another team and wins twenty Stanley Cups. Just GTFO, and take Regier with you! :angry: +249
inkman Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Stamkos - 48 minutes Malkin - 40 minutes Hartnell - 100 minutes - LOL Corey Perry - 78 minutes Burrows - 56 minutes Callahan - 53 minutes It's really hard to compare Vanek to any of these guys. For the most part, maybe not Stamkos, but they are power forwards who hit and fight. All of Vanek's penalties are lazy Euro stick penalties.
ROCBuffalo Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 This is incredibly frustrating. How could Thomas Vanek be out of 'rope' but not Roy and Stafford? Let's divide PIM by goals scored, and see how it looks THEN? Those guys have 2-3 times as many PIMs per goal scored as Vanek. And again, Ruff should be looking at the stats for the league - Pommer's got low PIM for his goals, but that's unusual. Vanek is mid-pack in PIMS for guys that have scored comparable or more goals than he. I'm sorry - but Roy and Stafford both need to go in the off-season - and if Ruff doesn't see that, Lindy sorry but you might have to go to the team that takes the two Bobsy Twins (if we're lucky). I wonder if Terry goes on these sites and see how frustrated the fans are with the coaching on lack of desire on this team. Then again, we wouldn't be saying any of this if we were in the playoffs.
LastPommerFan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I think it's expectations. Ruff wants Vanek to be a premier player in this league. I think he just wants Roy to be a serviceable 1st line center.
spndnchz Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I think it's expectations. Ruff wants Vanek to be a premier player in this league. I think he just wants Roy to be a serviceable 1st line center. I think LR wants Roy to be as creative as he can but not shy away from the system the Sabres use.
LastPommerFan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I think LR wants Roy to be as creative as he can but not shy away from the system the Sabres use. I think that would be a good definition of a serviceable first line center for Ruff.
2ForTripping Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Lindy threw 26 under the bus with his comments. I think Lindy needs to be removed off of his pedestal and removed from the organeyezation and talk Niles with him.
korab rules Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 There is nothing more that needs to be said to make a case for Lindy getting the boot. I don't care if he goes to another team and wins twenty Stanley Cups. Just GTFO, and take Regier with you! :angry: What part says this to you - the part about vanek or Roy? Why do people take what coaches and gm's say to the public so literally? Do you really think they believe half of what they say?Should ruff go on the radio and say Roy and stafford are dogshit when Regier is trying to trade them? Would that make you feel better?
Robviously Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I think it's expectations. Ruff wants Vanek to be a premier player in this league. I think he just wants Roy to be a serviceable 1st line center. I think this is correct, but if he wants Vanek to be a premier player in the league, why not give him the ice time normally given to premier players in the league? Vanek has never averaged more than 17:30/game in ice time. Why not give him 20+ minutes per game and see if it makes a difference? Seeing as how he's the only guy on the team capable of scoring 40 goals, it's at least worth a shot.
LabattBlue Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 What part says this to you - the part about vanek or Roy? Why do people take what coaches and gm's say to the public so literally? Do you really think they believe half of what they say? Should ruff go on the radio and say Roy and stafford are dogshit when Regier is trying to trade them? Would that make you feel better? This is hte one that pisses me off... "Ruff also saying that Thomas Vanek no longer has any rope. Too many bad penalties. Excuses over." The Roy quotes are just laughable. I still quote Lindy from a couple of years ago when he was coaching at the World Championships and Roy was part of the team, and he talked about having several heart to heart talks with him.
korab rules Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 This is hte one that pisses me off... "Ruff also saying that Thomas Vanek no longer has any rope. Too many bad penalties. Excuses over." The Roy quotes are just laughable. I still quote Lindy from a couple of years ago when he was coaching at the World Championships and Roy was part of the team, and he talked about having several heart to heart talks with him. Ok - what about ruff not putting up with bad penalties from Vanek makes you think he should be summarily fired. I'm not being a jerk, just trying to understand where you are coming from, because I don't get it. I think the history shows that Ruff treats Vanek differently than other players - likely because he expects more out of him because Van has more in him. Do you think Ruff should handle every player the same regardless of their individual character and demeanor?
LabattBlue Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Ok - what about ruff not putting up with bad penalties from Vanek makes you think he should be summarily fired. I'm not being a jerk, just trying to understand where you are coming from, because I don't get it. I think the history shows that Ruff treats Vanek differently than other players - likely because he expects more out of him because Van has more in him. Do you think Ruff should handle every player the same regardless of their individual character and demeanor? Do I really need to spell out the reasons why Ruff should be fired? How about this year alone...instead of sending him down to Rochester when he started to slump, Lindy demotes Adam to the 4th line(and even sits him in the press box), playing him for 8 minutes a game with that offensive dynamo Matt Ellis. - Mishandling of his backup goalie for years on end - Missing the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years(and probably 3 out of 5) in a league where half of the teams make the playoffs. - Refusal to give his best forwards more ice time in a year where everyone except for Pominville and Vanek can't score goals. Check the ES TOI for the forwards and let me know where Vanek and Pominville rank? - As for Vanek, your best player is slumping, and the best you can do is blast him in public by saying he is at the end of his rope? The Vanek quote isn't the only reason why Lindy should be fired...just the most recent item to add to the list.
nfreeman Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I would like to note for the record that no one here has any GD idea how to coach a hockey team. If you want to hold Lindy accountable for the losing -- fine. If you think coaches generally have a shelf life and Lindy's has expired -- also fine. People can agree or disagree with those positions, but at least there is an informed basis for each of them. But for anyone here to proclaim "this is how a player like Vanek should be motivated/disciplined/utilized" is just nonsense. No one here has any idea what makes Vanek tick, how well conditioned he is, or any of the other key factors in deciding whether or not Vanek should've been benched for a lazy, dumb offensive-zone penalty that he's been undoubtedly warned about previously and repeatedly.
korab rules Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Do I really need to spell out the reasons why Ruff should be fired? How about this year alone...instead of sending him down to Rochester when he started to slump, Lindy demotes Adam to the 4th line(and even sits him in the press box), playing him for 8 minutes a game with that offensive dynamo Matt Ellis. - Mishandling of his backup goalie for years on end - Missing the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years(and probably 3 out of 5) in a league where half of the teams make the playoffs. - Refusal to give his best forwards more ice time in a year where everyone except for Pominville and Vanek can't score goals. Check the ES TOI for the forwards and let me know where Vanek and Pominville rank? - As for Vanek, your best player is slumping, and the best you can do is blast him in public by saying he is at the end of his rope? The Vanek quote isn't the only reason why Lindy should be fired...just the most recent item to add to the list. I understand you have a list, and there are certainly many legitimate reasons why people would want to fire ruff. I was trying to understand how what he said on the radio this morning made the case so utterly clear for you - as it wasn't for me. So you think he is wrong by blasting him in public while he is in a slump when what Ruff SAID was that he benched him for doing something that hurts the team when he has repeatedly been warned not to do it? How should Ruff have handled it? I would like to note for the record that no one here has any GD idea how to coach a hockey team. If you want to hold Lindy accountable for the losing -- fine. If you think coaches generally have a shelf life and Lindy's has expired -- also fine. People can agree or disagree with those positions, but at least there is an informed basis for each of them. But for anyone here to proclaim "this is how a player like Vanek should be motivated/disciplined/utilized" is just nonsense. No one here has any idea what makes Vanek tick, how well conditioned he is, or any of the other key factors in deciding whether or not Vanek should've been benched for a lazy, dumb offensive-zone penalty that he's been undoubtedly warned about previously and repeatedly. This is absolutely correct, and why I have stayed out of things here for a while. There is no reason anymore - its a feeding frenzy of blind hate. And Blue, I would not generally cast you in with the masses, which is why I was trying to understand where you were coming from.
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