Eleven Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Here's the reason why Vanek didn't get 20 minutes of ice time yesterday, and it's a good reason: http://niagara-gazette.com/prosports/x143598623/Gaustad-line-stymies-Pens-Malkin-in-Sabres-win I also like where Stafford was buried most of the game.
SwampD Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Here's the reason why Vanek didn't get 20 minutes of ice time yesterday, and it's a good reason: http://niagara-gazet...n-in-Sabres-win I also like where Stafford was buried most of the game. Interesting,.. if only for the Red Herring factor.
Jsixspd Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 If you look at the stats, Vanek has only 2 more penalty minutes for the entire season than Roy, and only 8 minutes more than Stafford for the season, despite having many more goals than either of those two. When you're going to the net and playing aggressive, you can get some penalties. Vanek is 104th in the league in PIM. Hardly like Thomas Vanek penalties are a major issue for the Sabres - Ruff has a LOT of bigger problems that are a higher priority to deal with.. A couple weeks ago, Roy took a stupid penalty within seconds of coming out of the booth for another stupid penalty, and during the penalty kill Tyler Myers ended up laying on the ice from blocking a shot which hit him in the groin. Roy's penalty could have ended up with Myers on the IR - fortunately he was ok. Yet Ruff doesn't bench Roy for that gaffe. Maybe it's psychology, but another, simpler explanation might be poor, inconsistent management of the team?
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 If you look at the stats, Vanek has only 2 more penalty minutes for the entire season than Roy, and only 8 minutes more than Stafford for the season, despite having many more goals than either of those two. When you're going to the net and playing aggressive, you can get some penalties. Vanek is 104th in the league in PIM. Hardly like Thomas Vanek penalties are a major issue for the Sabres - Ruff has a LOT of bigger problems that are a higher priority to deal with.. A couple weeks ago, Roy took a stupid penalty within seconds of coming out of the booth for another stupid penalty, and during the penalty kill Tyler Myers ended up laying on the ice from blocking a shot which hit him in the groin. Roy's penalty could have ended up with Myers on the IR - fortunately he was ok. Yet Ruff doesn't bench Roy for that gaffe. Maybe it's psychology, but another, simpler explanation might be poor, inconsistent management of the team? Surely, LR is a good enough coach to teach him not to block shots with that part of his body ... :P .
spndnchz Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 If you look at the stats, Vanek has only 2 more penalty minutes for the entire season than Roy, and only 8 minutes more than Stafford for the season, despite having many more goals than either of those two. When you're going to the net and playing aggressive, you can get some penalties. Vanek is 104th in the league in PIM. Hardly like Thomas Vanek penalties are a major issue for the Sabres - Ruff has a LOT of bigger problems that are a higher priority to deal with.. A couple weeks ago, Roy took a stupid penalty within seconds of coming out of the booth for another stupid penalty, and during the penalty kill Tyler Myers ended up laying on the ice from blocking a shot which hit him in the groin. Roy's penalty could have ended up with Myers on the IR - fortunately he was ok. Yet Ruff doesn't bench Roy for that gaffe. Maybe it's psychology, but another, simpler explanation might be poor, inconsistent management of the team? I bet if you look at every one of those calls you'll find that more often than not they are in the offensive zone and weren't really necessary to get or keep possession of the puck. I think that's what annoys LR.
Jsixspd Posted February 20, 2012 Report Posted February 20, 2012 Surely, LR is a good enough coach to teach him not to block shots with that part of his body ... :P . LOL
waldo Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 If you look at the stats, Vanek has only 2 more penalty minutes for the entire season than Roy, and only 8 minutes more than Stafford for the season, despite having many more goals than either of those two. When you're going to the net and playing aggressive, you can get some penalties. Vanek is 104th in the league in PIM. Hardly like Thomas Vanek penalties are a major issue for the Sabres - Ruff has a LOT of bigger problems that are a higher priority to deal with.. A couple weeks ago, Roy took a stupid penalty within seconds of coming out of the booth for another stupid penalty, and during the penalty kill Tyler Myers ended up laying on the ice from blocking a shot which hit him in the groin. Roy's penalty could have ended up with Myers on the IR - fortunately he was ok. Yet Ruff doesn't bench Roy for that gaffe. Maybe it's psychology, but another, simpler explanation might be poor, inconsistent management of the team? You are on the money with your post.. Vaneks penalties are a bull ssss excuse for Lindy to once again bust Vanek balls.and change the focus from the teams horrible performence and Lindy's roll in that to Vanek.. If thats Lindy's excuse this time he is full of crap.He could bench ten guys on that team on any given night for stupid mistakes. Just to add to your argument it should be noted that in most years Vaneks PIM are equal or lower than Rick Nash's. Does that mean if Nash ended up here (which he will not) he gets benched too?
drnkirishone Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Vanek doesn't take roughing penalities, he rarely takes a penality in his own end, the neutral zone, or at the blue line. I would guess 95% of all his penalties are of the hooking/slashing/tripping variety in the offensive zone. For a team that struggles with time on attack his penalties are horrible to take as it means we are taking them during one of the few times we are pressuring the other team
TheChimp Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 If Ruff benched Thomas Vanek for this, but hasn't touched Roy or Stafford for their inept game play, laziness, and stupid penalties, then I might reconsider my opinion that Terry Pegula should keep Ruff on the payroll for another season. If this is true, to me that's just indefensible. Consider your opinion reconsidered, then.
Jsixspd Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 How would Lindy Ruff deal with some of the other top scorers in the league? Stamkos - 48 minutes Malkin - 40 minutes Hartnell - 100 minutes - LOL Corey Perry - 78 minutes Burrows - 56 minutes Callahan - 53 minutes Pomminiville is exceptional - only 8 PIM for his 23 goals. BUT Vanek is about average in his PIM for his goal output. Some with fewer, some with a lot more. It's just mindblowing to me that Vanek of all people would get singled out for benching, but we've seen lax and pitful play from Roy and Stafford the entire season where they SHOULD have been benched and weren't. Has Ruff been asked to contrast the benching of Vanek to his non-benching of Stafford and Roy and explain it? Maybe he does have a good reason. It just doesn't seem obvious. Consider your opinion reconsidered, then. LOL - well, we'll see.
kishoph Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Vanek has 23 minor penalties for 46 minutes, Roy has 22 for 44 minutes. Here's the breakdown as far as I could find. Vanek - -6 hooking, 6 tripping, 2 holding, 3 interference, 2 high sticking, 3 cross checks and 1 undisclosed. Roy - 7 hooking, 9 tripping, 1 interference, 1 slash, 1 high stick and 3 undisclosed (I imagine they're for sucking). In my opinion hooking and tripping are more of a lazy penalty and a lot of times happen after getting beat for the puck. It seems to me that Vanek takes a lot of penalties trying to take the puck away, often while backchecking (I may be bias), where it seems Roy gets a lot of penalties from frustration. Like I said, maybe I am being a bit bias, as Vanek is one of my favorite Sabres and Roy is probably my least liked, but the numbers are from ESPN and they clearly show that Roy takes as many penalties as Vanek, with not nearly as much production.
obstructedorangeseats Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Vanek-related snippet from Ruff this AM: https://twitter.com/...947743328223232 Ruff also saying that Thomas Vanek no longer has any rope. Too many bad penalties. Excuses over. One has to wonder how long the rope is for some other players on this team when Thomas Vanek has already run out. Ugh. Vanek has 23 minor penalties for 46 minutes, Roy has 22 for 44 minutes. Here's the breakdown as far as I could find. Vanek - -6 hooking, 6 tripping, 2 holding, 3 interference, 2 high sticking, 3 cross checks and 1 undisclosed. Roy - 7 hooking, 9 tripping, 1 interference, 1 slash, 1 high stick and 3 undisclosed (I imagine they're for sucking). In my opinion hooking and tripping are more of a lazy penalty and a lot of times happen after getting beat for the puck. It seems to me that Vanek takes a lot of penalties trying to take the puck away, often while backchecking (I may be bias), where it seems Roy gets a lot of penalties from frustration. Like I said, maybe I am being a bit bias, as Vanek is one of my favorite Sabres and Roy is probably my least liked, but the numbers are from ESPN and they clearly show that Roy takes as many penalties as Vanek, with not nearly as much production. Then you'll love this: https://twitter.com/#!/JeremyWGR/status/171947340398198785 Lindy Ruff calls his relationship with Derek Roy much like a "father-son", in that he has to be hard on him at times. #Sabres and... https://twitter.com/#!/JeremyWGR/status/171947466902609920 Ruff says the relationship with Roy is good, and that there's no way Roy could be a detriment to the locker room. #Sabres
Kristian Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Vanek-related snippet from Ruff this AM: One has to wonder how long the rope is for some other players on this team when Thomas Vanek has already run out. Ugh. Then you'll love this: and... Jesus...... Freakin'...... Christ................ What a TOOL Ruff is! This is beyond ridiculous. I feel like crying. Seriously.
obstructedorangeseats Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Jesus...... Freakin'...... Christ................ What a TOOL Ruff is! This is beyond ridiculous. I feel like crying. Seriously. That was pretty much my reaction too. Not surprising, but not something you'd expect to be vocalized.
Eleven Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 That was pretty much my reaction too. Not surprising, but not something you'd expect to be vocalized. That's the interesting part. Especially from a coach who is tight-lipped. I wonder what's up.
sabre4life Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 TP can't believe this BS can he????
wonderbread Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 That's the interesting part. Especially from a coach who is tight-lipped. I wonder what's up. Lindy is muddying the waters. Roy is being shopped, Vanek is not.
Kristian Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Lindy is muddying the waters. Roy is being shopped, Vanek is not. If we were talking about any other head coach than Lindy Ruff, I'd be 100% convinced this was the case.
CallawaySabres Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 TP can't believe this BS can he???? Roy has been shopped for over a year now. You think Ruff is going to come out and throw him under the bus when they want him out? Maybe Roy will still be here next year but if there is one thing I believe, he is definitely being shopped.....
bunomatic Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Lindy Ruff is the icing on this disfunctional cake. Many of these guys have grown up under Ruffs tutelage so can you blame them for their discombobulation ? I'm starting to believe that Ruff is the locker room cancer. The only thing that would explain Ruffs inconsistencies when dealing with individual players as far as discipline goes would be that Vanek is scoring therefore strong mentally and able to take the criticism and Roy/Stafford aren't mentally strong so he treats them with kid gloves thinking that he doesn't want to further upset their confidence .
LastPommerFan Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Lindy Ruff is the icing on this disfunctional cake. Many of these guys have grown up under Ruffs tutelage so can you blame them for their discombobulation ? I'm starting to believe that Ruff is the locker room cancer. The only thing that would explain Ruffs inconsistencies when dealing with individual players as far as discipline goes would be that Vanek is scoring therefore strong mentally and able to take the criticism and Roy/Stafford aren't mentally strong so he treats them with kid gloves thinking that he doesn't want to further upset their confidence . Just look at their personalities. Roy and Staff don't seem like the type of guys who would respond well to criticism. Vanek, on the other hand is more stoic. I personally prefer the Vanek types to the guys who need to constantly be stroked, but I've yet to meet a good leader who treats everyone under his charge exactly the same. People are different, it's a manager/coach's job to get the best out of the team he has. Vanek has developed into a very good player under Ruff. He was hacked in half two playoffs ago, and performed well last year. His regular season numbers are great as well. Series and season success aside, Ruff knows how to handle Thomas.
waldo Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Vanek doesn't take roughing penalities, he rarely takes a penality in his own end, the neutral zone, or at the blue line. I would guess 95% of all his penalties are of the hooking/slashing/tripping variety in the offensive zone. For a team that struggles with time on attack his penalties are horrible to take as it means we are taking them during one of the few times we are pressuring the other team Could it be that when you play on a line with the likes of Pom, Roy,etc,(non physical lines/finesse lines/ lines not known for their puck possion timein the o zone) the dirty end of possession in the offensive zone falls on your shoulders because you are the most physical/durable player on the ice ? Could it be that when you take a beating in the o zone and none of the cheap shots get called you look to retailate when back checking some times ? FYI.. most of Vaneks penalties occur in battles for the puck or his attempts to steal the puck when back checking, which means the other team already has the puck? Which means he is not killing O time when he takes them? His stupid penalities imo occur more often than not in back checking mode. But the number of them is no where near problematic imo. He just needs to keep his cool . He is suppose to be finding open ice, getting the puck on time from a playmaking center and shooting . Thats his game. Lindy has him playing a more physical Phil Espisito type game. That type of game comes with a heavy physical toll. It slows your game down and you reach more . Who on the team, winger wise, do you think takes more of a beating in every game , Kaleta excluded?
Kristian Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 Could it be that when you play on a line with the likes of Pom, Roy,etc,(non physical lines/finesse lines/ lines not known for their puck possion timein the o zone) the dirty end of possession in the offensive zone falls on your shoulders because you are the most physical/durable player on the ice ? Could it be that when you take a beating in the o zone and none of the cheap shots get called you look to retailate when back checking ? FYI most of Vaneks penalties occur in battles for the puck or his attempts to steal the puck when back checking, which means the other team already has the puck? Which means he is not killing O time when he takes them? I'd agree with this, if his linesmates gave a damn about winning back the puck after giving it away, perhaps Vanek would take less penalties? Not trying to defend him as he does take some really stupid stick penalties once in a while, but if someone else would go dig for the puck in the corner occasionally, maybe things would be different.
LTS Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 I'd agree with this, if his linesmates gave a damn about winning back the puck after giving it away, perhaps Vanek would take less penalties? Not trying to defend him as he does take some really stupid stick penalties once in a while, but if someone else would go dig for the puck in the corner occasionally, maybe things would be different. A stupid penalty is a stupid penalty and there is no one else to blame. If it's a penalty that happens while playing rough and digging for a puck that's not a stupid penalty. You want to blame his teammates for his lack of discipline? Looks, regardless of any other player in the league Vanek takes some really bad penalties in the offensive zone and they aren't while trying to make plays. He gets lazy. It's something that has always been a problem for him, especially when he gets frustrated. He's been much better over the past two seasons (something he attributed to becoming a father) and he's a far more complete player than he was before last season. Still, he has his moment where he plays like 2008 Thomas Vanek and commits a lazy penalty.
SwampD Posted February 21, 2012 Report Posted February 21, 2012 A stupid penalty is a stupid penalty and there is no one else to blame. If it's a penalty that happens while playing rough and digging for a puck that's not a stupid penalty. You want to blame his teammates for his lack of discipline? Looks, regardless of any other player in the league Vanek takes some really bad penalties in the offensive zone and they aren't while trying to make plays. He gets lazy. It's something that has always been a problem for him, especially when he gets frustrated. He's been much better over the past two seasons (something he attributed to becoming a father) and he's a far more complete player than he was before last season. Still, he has his moment where he plays like 2008 Thomas Vanek and commits a lazy penalty. So, Lindy chooses late in a game, where we need a goal, against a team we are fighting for a playoff spot against and don't want to give points to, to teach Vanek a lesson using the same method that hasn't worked with him his entire carreer here. ...brilliant...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.