Vanek benching

[Eleven]

Mike Harrington @BNHarrington

Gaustad and Kaleta lead #Sabres forwards in TOI with 13:16 through two periods. They've been good today but still.... Lindy?

 

Mike Harrington @BNHarrington

All -- i get that 28/36 playing Malkin line.....just saying the big guns don't play enough and other teams checkers don't always lead in TOI

 

Did Mr. Harrington see the final score? And did he tweet thereafter?

[Weave]

Did Mr. Harrington see the final score? And did he tweet thereafter?

 

He did tweet after the game but conveniently didn't touch the subject of Vanek's ice time. :P

 

I think his point is generally valid though.

[Eleven]

He did tweet after the game but conveniently didn't touch the subject of Vanek's ice time. :P

 

I think his point is generally valid though.

 

Those two tweets didn't even mention Vanek.

[Weave]

Those two tweets didn't even mention Vanek.

 

Did you get the impression his subject was some other "big gun" for the Sabres?

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm entirely too lazy to try to look this up, but before the season didn't Ruff discuss how less could be more with Vanek's ice time? A couple fewer shifts, but he could go balls out every minute he's on the ice then. It was something to that effect. Vanek's never struck me as the workout warrior type, and hell, his facial expressions every time he gets off the ice make it look like he's about to die :blink: . So maybe it's his conditioning. Just as a spot check I looked at Briere's ice time while he was here, and he averaged about 19 minutes per game, to Vanek's 17 for his career (and this season as well). Drury was a little over 18 minutes while he was here. So maybe a little bit is conditioning, but between not killing penalties and Ruff's propensity to roll lines pretty evenly, my guess is that if conditioning is a factor, it's #3 on the list.

 

Edit: And yes, that was me coming up with an idea, checking to see if it's valid, and probably proving myself wrong all in the same paragraph :P

[Weave]

LOL That's pretty funny.

[waldo]

I like how Lindy articulated why the penalty like Vanek's was called. He wasn't blaming the ref, but making his player accountable. I completely disagree with how he handled it. I'm starting to feel sorry for Vanek. If it is at all possible to empathize with an uber-rich pro player. Either Vanek or Lindy needs to go, for this guys career. Lindy made his bed with Roy, Pegula said he ain't going anywhere. So please Buffalo let this guy off the hook.

 

exactly..if t pegs wants ruff..fine , he owns the team. Keep Lindy.....but let Vanek get out of town.. after four years with Ruff he deserves a get out of jail card.

[TrueBlueGED]

exactly..if t pegs wants ruff..fine , he owns the team. Keep Lindy.....but let Vanek get out of town.. after four years with Ruff he deserves a get out of jail card.

 

I dunno, Vanek takes as many dumb/careless penalties as Roy. If he wasn't producing consistently, my guess is he'd be as much of a target of fan ire as Roy. Of course he does produce, so it's easy to overlook the penalties. I want Ruff holding players accountable for stuff like that, I just think it's unfortunate that Vanek was the first victim. But what is Ruff going to do, have a huge locker room speech about stupid penalties and accountability, and then the first time somebody takes one excuse it? How could that possibly help his credibility? Either way, I do wish Ruff would ride his best players a bit more, at least give Vanek full shifts on the PP (unless we suck and have to chase around our own zone for half of it).

[kishoph]

Roy took a dumb penalty late in the 1st period in today's game, he came out of the box and finished up the period (only 21 secs), then was out there at the start of the 2nd period came off and went back on in just over a minute, not quite the same result Vanek received with his penalty.

[JJFIVEOH]

I dunno, Vanek takes as many dumb/careless penalties as Roy. If he wasn't producing consistently, my guess is he'd be as much of a target of fan ire as Roy. Of course he does produce, so it's easy to overlook the penalties. I want Ruff holding players accountable for stuff like that, I just think it's unfortunate that Vanek was the first victim. But what is Ruff going to do, have a huge locker room speech about stupid penalties and accountability, and then the first time somebody takes one excuse it? How could that possibly help his credibility? Either way, I do wish Ruff would ride his best players a bit more, at least give Vanek full shifts on the PP (unless we suck and have to chase around our own zone for half of it).

 

That's fair. I like a strict coach that holds players accountable. I get to see all the Panthers games, interviews, post game press conferences, etc. down here and Dineen is a good example of a hard-ass coach. He doesn't put up poor performance and dumb mistakes. But right now I don't think it's fair to nitpick about bad penalties when a large handful of supposed high scoring forwards are floating through the entire season. If BFLO was fighting for the division and most of the team is playing up to par, then I can see Ruff having a point by focusing on bad penalties. Everybody gets penalties, right now he needs to focus on the penalty killing unit and take it out on our high priced players who are running for the bus first.

[TrueBlueGED]

Roy took a dumb penalty late in the 1st period in today's game, he came out of the box and finished up the period (only 21 secs), then was out there at the start of the 2nd period came off and went back on in just over a minute, not quite the same result Vanek received with his penalty.

 

Right, I want consistency. For the absolute life of me I cannot understand why Roy or Stafford, at some point this season, have not been healthy scratches. Roy and Stafford have been benched for stretches as a result of their play, but today Roy was off the hook (which is back asswards since the stupid penalty crackdown has begun). The only possible thing I can think of is trying to keep trade value higher, but I really don't believe anything short term (good, bad, or indifferent) really influences trade value a whole lot.

 

That's fair. I like a strict coach that holds players accountable. I get to see all the Panthers games, interviews, post game press conferences, etc. down here and Dineen is a good example of a hard-ass coach. He doesn't put up poor performance and dumb mistakes. But right now I don't think it's fair to nitpick about bad penalties when a large handful of supposed high scoring forwards are floating through the entire season. If BFLO was fighting for the division and most of the team is playing up to par, then I can see Ruff having a point by focusing on bad penalties. Everybody gets penalties, right now he needs to focus on the penalty killing unit and take it out on our high priced players who are running for the bus first.

 

I think my previous reply pretty much answers this as well. I want consistency, and not holding Roy & Stafford (in particular) more accountable throughout the season is ridiculous. I can at least kind of understand it right now if they're trying to trade them before the deadline, but that doesn't explain it all year.

[Kristian]

LOL is that the new reason we've allowed ourselves to believe when we see Roy ###### up and Lindy send him out on the very next shift? It's now because we're shopping him....yesssss, yesssss, shopping him.... I like it.

 

Only problem is Regier will likely only accept Kane or Malkin in return, so the chance of him leaving are about as big as the chances of LaFontaine coming out of retirement and leading us to a cup.

[TheChimp]

exactly..if t pegs wants ruff..fine , he owns the team. Keep Lindy.....but let Vanek get out of town.. after four years with Ruff he deserves a get out of jail card.

Here, here!!! And while they're at it, there's a handful of other entertaining players that also deserve a chance to play for a team that actually cares about winning the Cup.

 

Also, this thing with Vanek and Roy, and Lindy benching one and not the other, this is NOT just happening this year, it's been going on for years.

[waldo]

Here, here!!! And while they're at it, there's a handful of other entertaining players that also deserve a chance to play for a team that actually cares about winning the Cup.

 

Also, this thing with Vanek and Roy, and Lindy benching one and not the other, this is NOT just happening this year, it's been going on for years.

 

Exactly Chimp. Nice to see there is another guy with a memory. Did you ever see Roy get benched for a stupid penalty, or for giving up the zone on the power play (which he does six out of ten times) with a stupid passing decision, or for causing an odd man rush to occur with a silly shot or pass?How about Myers?(benched once for personally giving up ten goals in his end) How many times has he coughed up possession in the d zone or been out of position , or given up a silly goal with a bonehead decision? Lindy has been screaming at Vanek for four years on the bench, on T>V and probably in the locker room. Keep Lindy tPegs. let Vanek, and Miller go to a contender for a second rounder. 14 mil in cap room. Spend it on more Staffords, Roys, Boyes's, Torres's and Gaustads.

[LTS]

Exactly Chimp. Nice to see there is another guy with a memory. Did you ever see Roy get benched for a stupid penalty, or for giving up the zone on the power play (which he does six out of ten times) with a stupid passing decision, or for causing an odd man rush to occur with a silly shot or pass?How about Myers?(benched once for personally giving up ten goals in his end) How many times has he coughed up possession in the d zone or been out of position , or given up a silly goal with a bonehead decision? Lindy has been screaming at Vanek for four years on the bench, on T>V and probably in the locker room. Keep Lindy tPegs. let Vanek, and Miller go to a contender for a second rounder. 14 mil in cap room. Spend it on more Staffords, Roys, Boyes's, Torres's and Gaustads.

 

Roy was effectively benched and then put on the 4th line after screening Miller in Winnipeg this year. He also was the focus of the Lindy scream as well.

[ROCBuffalo]

I agree, the juggling of the lines is crazy. Also, Vanek and Pommer seemed to be the only players who can score. You can't bench Vanek. However, I think that he is unhealthy but Ruff wanted to make it look like he doesn't care who you are on the team, if you do stuiped things you'll get benched. But I see Roy and Stafford do far worse things and not produce and don't get punished for it, so i am not sure what Lindy is doing here. Very confused cause I like Lindy, but I think a change is needed.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I think Ruff holds Vanek to a higher standard than other players (like Staff or Roy). He expects more from Vanek, and is trying to push him in a different manner. I may be naive, but that's my opinion. I think he wanted to send a message that stupid penalties can't be tolerated, and as someone else pointed out, Vanek has a ridiculous amount of PIMs for not being a fighter.

[sabre4life]

Dumb penalty aside, you just don't bench your best offensive player period. I just can't explain this season... I'm baffled. All I know is I'd like to see change and I'm not confident that we'll see it. The whole tenure thing confuses me, sure we can use a change (coaching) but why doesn't Trotz (Nashville) have these problems? Why haven't the players given up on Trotz? I look at this and come to the conclusion that maybe it is the players on this team? But then I look at Pit. and see an AHL coach take that team to the promised land... I'm confused, I don't know what I want anymore...lol such a strange season this year.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I think Ruff holds Vanek to a higher standard than other players (like Staff or Roy). He expects more from Vanek, and is trying to push him in a different manner. I may be naive, but that's my opinion. I think he wanted to send a message that stupid penalties can't be tolerated, and as someone else pointed out, Vanek has a ridiculous amount of PIMs for not being a fighter.

 

I would have to agree with that and some of those penalties are lazy stick work once his legs stop moving. Having said that I think Vanek is one of my favourite Sabres, he is a lot tougher player now then he was a few years ago. I would love to see him play with a true number one centre, I think he would put up over 40 goals a year if that he could be arranged.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I would have to agree with that and some of those penalties are lazy stick work once his legs stop moving. Having said that I think Vanek is one of my favourite Sabres, he is a lot tougher player now then he was a few years ago. I would love to see him play with a true number one centre, I think he would put up over 40 goals a year if that he could be arranged.

 

I whole heartedly agree

[LTS]

Dumb penalty aside, you just don't bench your best offensive player period. I just can't explain this season... I'm baffled. All I know is I'd like to see change and I'm not confident that we'll see it. The whole tenure thing confuses me, sure we can use a change (coaching) but why doesn't Trotz (Nashville) have these problems? Why haven't the players given up on Trotz? I look at this and come to the conclusion that maybe it is the players on this team? But then I look at Pit. and see an AHL coach take that team to the promised land... I'm confused, I don't know what I want anymore...lol such a strange season this year.

 

If you don't bench your best offensive player then you send the message that some people are special. Vanek has a habit of taking very stupid penalties, those would be lazy penalties in the offensive zone, which are perhaps the most absurd to take. I would bench him for repeatedly doing it. I would be interested, if such stats are known, where Vanek commits most of his penalties because recent memory says they are all in the offensive zone.

 

Now, I'm not talking about how Ruff does things. You certainly hold each player to the same level of responsibility to the team. So if there is a lack of him doing it to other players it's stupid.. I truthfully don't pay that much attention to who gets benched.

[SwampD]

If you don't bench your best offensive player then you send the message that some people are special. Vanek has a habit of taking very stupid penalties, those would be lazy penalties in the offensive zone, which are perhaps the most absurd to take. I would bench him for repeatedly doing it. I would be interested, if such stats are known, where Vanek commits most of his penalties because recent memory says they are all in the offensive zone.

 

Now, I'm not talking about how Ruff does things. You certainly hold each player to the same level of responsibility to the team. So if there is a lack of him doing it to other players it's stupid.. I truthfully don't pay that much attention to who gets benched.

Some people are special, though. This isn't 3rd grade gym class where everyone gets a Participation Award.

[sabre4life]

If you don't bench your best offensive player then you send the message that some people are special. Vanek has a habit of taking very stupid penalties, those would be lazy penalties in the offensive zone, which are perhaps the most absurd to take. I would bench him for repeatedly doing it. I would be interested, if such stats are known, where Vanek commits most of his penalties because recent memory says they are all in the offensive zone.

 

Now, I'm not talking about how Ruff does things. You certainly hold each player to the same level of responsibility to the team. So if there is a lack of him doing it to other players it's stupid.. I truthfully don't pay that much attention to who gets benched.

 

In a 2-2 game you don't bench the 1 of 2 players that have shown they can put the puck in the net to win you the game. I'm sorry but benching Vanek was a ill conceived notion to send a message. Lindy should be disciplining those players that put Vanek in this so called "lazy" position you speak of. I think Stafford/Roy is much more lazier than Vanek is. I'm still waiting for Malkin to get benched for his offensive zone penalties...

[Jsixspd]

If Ruff benched Thomas Vanek for this, but hasn't touched Roy or Stafford for their inept game play, laziness, and stupid penalties, then I might reconsider my opinion that Terry Pegula should keep Ruff on the payroll for another season.

 

If this is true, to me that's just indefensible.

[TrueBlueGED]

I personally want all of my players held to the same standard, especially star players. Nothing breeds contempt in the ranks than believing the coach plays favorites with the more talented. Think it helped team chemistry when captain Ovechkin had a public spat on the bench with Boudreau? A real leader would have accepted responsibility for his actions, and I think Vanek is very good at owning up to things. I respect that in him a lot. I just want the coach to be consistent in his punishment, which I don't think he is (although for those saying he doesn't hold Roy accountable, if you go back over the years he probably calls him out publicly more than any other player).

 

The other thing to consider is that coaches these days have to be psychologists as much as coaches, and not the same thing is effective for every player. Vanek is notorious for being ultra hard on himself when things go wrong...maybe by being hard on him Ruff is trying to relieve some of the pressure that Vanek puts on himself? Maybe he's the kind of guy that needs to be held accountable harshly. I never have gotten the impression that Vanek has quit on Ruff, or doesn't respect him. Maybe he's just a high character guy who will try hard regardless of his coach, but for all of the criticism of Ruff's treatment of Vanek, I haven't seen it visibly impact his game in a negative way.