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2012 Trade RUMOR Thread. (Keep the deadline thread for substantiated stuff).

Eleven

By Eleven
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Gramps Fourth Liner

Gramps

Posted
Posted

Well now I have the inkling to do something I have avoided for the last few months... come up with crazy trade scenarios!

 

Stafford and either a defense prospect like Brennen or a later pick (5th?) to LA for Dustin Brown. Brown's physical play could go very well with Ennis as his pivot. Stafford and Brown are close in age/cost/ and points. This could be the type of deal that equates to a "change of scenery" . On a side note, Brown is from Ithaca so he might love the idea.

 

Roy and what we have discussed above (2nd rounder or def prospect/current player) to Colorado for Duchene... Colorado is not going to take on much salary because I think ownership will not allow it and it gives them a decent #2 center for next year and some veteran experience (no jokes please). Also after losing quincey they Avs may be looking for some sort of puck moving replacement (Sekera, Leopold, Brennen) and I really agree that tossing in McNabb is too much. The Sabres get a young center who could do great things and is IMO an improvement over Roy in the long run.

 

ok, let the criticism roll!

 

If location matters, why didn't we sign Erik Cole from Oswego in the off-season instead of you-know-who ...

nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

Posted
Posted

So you say Roy is a burden, then why would somebody else want him? If we only need a partial rebuild, then we still need something for next year. If/when we lose Hecht and Gaustad how do you plan to magically come up with 3 centers for next year? Your solution to taking care of our biggest necessity is losing more of them? If this team isn't going to do a complete overhaul how is getting a prospect or draft pick going to help them in the next two years?

 

Are you saying you want to keep Roy? I don't want him on this team next year under ANY circumstances.

 

Well now I have the inkling to do something I have avoided for the last few months... come up with crazy trade scenarios!

 

Stafford and either a defense prospect like Brennen or a later pick (5th?) to LA for Dustin Brown (3.175mil for 3 more years). Brown's physical play could go very well with Ennis as his pivot. Stafford and Brown are close in age/cost/ and points. This could be the type of deal that equates to a "change of scenery" . On a side note, Brown is from Ithaca so he might love the idea.

 

Roy and what we have discussed above (2nd rounder or def prospect/current player) to Colorado for Duchene... Colorado, it gives them a decent #2 center for next year and some veteran experience (no jokes please). Also after losing quincey they Avs may be looking for some sort of puck moving replacement (Sekera, Leopold, Brennen) and I really agree that tossing in McNabb is too much. The Sabres get a young center who could do great things and is IMO an improvement over Roy in the long run.

 

ok, let the criticism roll!

 

These aren't quite as bad as Roy for Malkin or Getzlaf, but they're in the ballpark. There is NFW that LA or Colorado would make either of those trades. Brown is LA's captain and is twice the player that Stafford is. The Sabres would need to include McNabb at a minimum. And Colorado isn't taking any package from the Sabres for Duchene that doesn't include Myers.

inkman Hall of Famer

inkman

Posted
Posted

If location matters, why didn't we sign Erik Cole from Oswego in the off-season instead of you-know-who ...

Exactly. The Sabres should trade for or sign every player that has spent more than 24 hours within 200 miles of Buffalo.

UncleWally Top Prospect

UncleWally

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To paraphrase a definition of worrying that I read a while back, listening to trade rumors is like paying interest on a loan that you never took out.

 

"Worry is like money paid on a debt that never comes due."

JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

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Posted

 

 

Are you saying you want to keep Roy? I don't want him on this team next year under ANY circumstances.

 

I'm saying I don't want to deal him for just picks and/or prospects. If they could package him together and get a legitimate #1 then I'm all for it. If by some miracle they would swing a #1 center AND keep him, I wouldn't be against him as our #2 next year. But that would be tough. Of all the trade bait we would be willing to get rid of, he probably has the most value and I would hate to waste it on prospects/picks. He needs to be the centerpiece for a trade for a #1 center.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

I'm saying I don't want to deal him for just picks and/or prospects. If they could package him together and get a legitimate #1 then I'm all for it. If by some miracle they would swing a #1 center AND keep him, I wouldn't be against him as our #2 next year. But that would be tough. Of all the trade bait we would be willing to get rid of, he probably has the most value and I would hate to waste it on prospects/picks. He needs to be the centerpiece for a trade for a #1 center.

 

Packaging Roy for a true #1 center is probably the LEAST likely scenario of anything that's been discussed. If a team is actually shipping off their #1 center (and ostensibly franchise player), they're almost certainly going into rebuilding mode. Which means they're looking to get younger, cheaper, and gain upside....Roy provides maybe 1 of those things (cheaper). If we trade Roy he's going to a contender for their top center prospect and a pick, or a 1st and a 2nd, something like that. I can't envision any real trade where he's part of a package for a team's top center.

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

Packaging Roy for a true #1 center is probably the LEAST likely scenario of anything that's been discussed. If a team is actually shipping off their #1 center (and ostensibly franchise player), they're almost certainly going into rebuilding mode. Which means they're looking to get younger, cheaper, and gain upside....Roy provides maybe 1 of those things (cheaper). If we trade Roy he's going to a contender for their top center prospect and a pick, or a 1st and a 2nd, something like that. I can't envision any real trade where he's part of a package for a team's top center.

 

This.

darksabre Hall of Famer

darksabre

Posted
Posted

Twitter rumors have LA and BJs trade discussions heating up with Carter going to LA and potentially Jack Johnson heading to BJs.

 

Reuniting Carter and Richards eh?

JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

Packaging Roy for a true #1 center is probably the LEAST likely scenario of anything that's been discussed. If a team is actually shipping off their #1 center (and ostensibly franchise player), they're almost certainly going into rebuilding mode. Which means they're looking to get younger, cheaper, and gain upside....Roy provides maybe 1 of those things (cheaper). If we trade Roy he's going to a contender for their top center prospect and a pick, or a 1st and a 2nd, something like that. I can't envision any real trade where he's part of a package for a team's top center.

 

So if you were a rebuilding team and you had the opportunity to trade your #1 center and get a first round pick AND still keep some offense......... you wouldn't do it? I've got news for you guys, with the exception of Nash, you're not going to see any groundbreaking deals before the deadline involving a Cup contender. It's funny, you look over this board and all you see is gripes about all of Roy's negatives yet some team is going to give up a high pick for him? It's just not going to happen.

 

And FWIW, no where did I say this was going to happen or it was even a possibility. I said it's not worth getting rid of him unless we got something in return for something other than prospects/picks because we may be 3 centers short next year. Why the hell would you give up a 70 pt/season guy with a $4 million contract if you're going to be way short on centers to begin with? The only logical reason Roy would go is if this team completely rebuilds and starts fresh. But most people on here think they can be fixed without completely rebuilding. How are you going to do that when you have no proven centers? Trade for a #1 center? Good luck with that if Roy isn't a part of that deal if we leave out the "untouchables".

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Posted

Exactly. The Sabres should trade for or sign every player that has spent more than 24 hours within 200 miles of Buffalo.

yea thats what I was saying...

 

 

anywho the sabres won't make any moves of note and we will win just enough to screw up the drafting of Grigorenko resulting instead in the drafting of a smalish, winger who is a finesse player... :wallbash: can't wait...

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

So if you were a rebuilding team and you had the opportunity to trade your #1 center and get a first round pick AND still keep some offense......... you wouldn't do it? I've got news for you guys, with the exception of Nash, you're not going to see any groundbreaking deals before the deadline involving a Cup contender. It's funny, you look over this board and all you see is gripes about all of Roy's negatives yet some team is going to give up a high pick for him? It's just not going to happen.

 

And FWIW, no where did I say this was going to happen or it was even a possibility. I said it's not worth getting rid of him unless we got something in return for something other than prospects/picks because we may be 3 centers short next year. Why the hell would you give up a 70 pt/season guy with a $4 million contract if you're going to be way short on centers to begin with? The only logical reason Roy would go is if this team completely rebuilds and starts fresh. But most people on here think they can be fixed without completely rebuilding. How are you going to do that when you have no proven centers? Trade for a #1 center? Good luck with that if Roy isn't a part of that deal if we leave out the "untouchables".

 

If I'm going into full rebuilding mode and the offer I get for my Spezza is Roy and a #1, there is a 0% chance I do it. Columbus is asking for a good NHL player with upside, 2 top prospects, and a 1st round pick for Nash. If I'm trading my top center, I want a similar return. 1 year of production from Roy before he bolts as a UFA does nothing for my franchise. As to why a contender would want him, yes I'm aware of his negatives, and being the top center for us magnifies his negatives. He's forced to go against top defensive pairings and top checking lines, and we rely on him to kill penalties. All of those things make his lazy tendencies and shortcomings far more apparent and meaningful during a game. If he goes to a contender as a clear #2 scoring center, his weaknesses get masked. I'll use Chicago as an example. He'd be responsible for creating offense, that's it. He'd face teams' second defensive pairings and lesser defensive forwards because the Toews line carries the burden of the other team's best. At most he would be a secondary penalty killing center because Bolland handles those duties. On a true contender his strengths are utilized to their maximum while his weaknesses are masked and minimized. That's why a contender would be interested in him, and ship us a top prospect in return (keep in mind, most contenders' top prospects are NOT guys like RNH or Schenn or whoever...they're more on the level of a Roy type player).

 

As to why we'd give him up, it's simple: if you believe we've reached our maximum potential with him as our top center, you move him for assets. And no, I don't think going younger at center means we're in a complete rebuild. Ennis will be in his 3rd full season, which coincidentally is when Roy hit 81 points. Presumably he'd be our top center with Vanek and Pominville. Ideally the prospect we acquired for Roy would be NHL-ready and could step in as our #2 (Kruger is already playing with Chicago most of this season, so he wouldn't be a totally raw rookie) or worse case scenario we have Adam. Third line gets to be Stoll, 4th line Gaustad/Ott/whoever. Ennis is a better top center than Hecht, and Kruger wouldn't be any worse than the Roy we saw this season. Frankly I don't think we have a dropoff at all. Second, he's not going to be a $4 million 70 point center beyond next year. He's in line for a significant raise and I'm not certain I'm willing to give him $5.5 million or more when he's on the wrong side of 30.

spndnchz All Star

spndnchz

Posted
Posted

 

yea thats what I was saying...

 

 

anywho the sabres won't make any moves of note and we will win just enough to screw up the drafting of Grigorenko resulting instead in the drafting of a smalish, winger who is a finesse player... :wallbash: can't wait...

 

I'm not that high on him personally.

JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

If I'm going into full rebuilding mode and the offer I get for my Spezza is Roy and a #1, there is a 0% chance I do it. Columbus is asking for a good NHL player with upside, 2 top prospects, and a 1st round pick for Nash. If I'm trading my top center, I want a similar return. 1 year of production from Roy before he bolts as a UFA does nothing for my franchise. As to why a contender would want him, yes I'm aware of his negatives, and being the top center for us magnifies his negatives. He's forced to go against top defensive pairings and top checking lines, and we rely on him to kill penalties. All of those things make his lazy tendencies and shortcomings far more apparent and meaningful during a game. If he goes to a contender as a clear #2 scoring center, his weaknesses get masked. I'll use Chicago as an example. He'd be responsible for creating offense, that's it. He'd face teams' second defensive pairings and lesser defensive forwards because the Toews line carries the burden of the other team's best. At most he would be a secondary penalty killing center because Bolland handles those duties. On a true contender his strengths are utilized to their maximum while his weaknesses are masked and minimized. That's why a contender would be interested in him, and ship us a top prospect in return (keep in mind, most contenders' top prospects are NOT guys like RNH or Schenn or whoever...they're more on the level of a Roy type player).

 

As to why we'd give him up, it's simple: if you believe we've reached our maximum potential with him as our top center, you move him for assets. And no, I don't think going younger at center means we're in a complete rebuild. Ennis will be in his 3rd full season, which coincidentally is when Roy hit 81 points. Presumably he'd be our top center with Vanek and Pominville. Ideally the prospect we acquired for Roy would be NHL-ready and could step in as our #2 (Kruger is already playing with Chicago most of this season, so he wouldn't be a totally raw rookie) or worse case scenario we have Adam. Third line gets to be Stoll, 4th line Gaustad/Ott/whoever. Ennis is a better top center than Hecht, and Kruger wouldn't be any worse than the Roy we saw this season. Frankly I don't think we have a dropoff at all. Second, he's not going to be a $4 million 70 point center beyond next year. He's in line for a significant raise and I'm not certain I'm willing to give him $5.5 million or more when he's on the wrong side of 30.

 

I'm not implying that we keep him as our #1. We need a #1. All I'm saying is I don't want him shipped off for prospects and/or picks. But I find it funny that just because Ennis has had a good couple of weeks at center that all of a sudden he is our #1 guy. Sorry, I need much more time of him producing the way he is to convince me, especially if he is used at #1 and other teams figure it out and plan accordingly on defense. Some people can be so critical of some of the players we have, yet get all giddy when somebody like Ennis shows promise over just a couple of games at a new position. I remember all the hoopla about Kassian when he was called up and had a good couple of games to start.

 

I don't think Roy would be asking that much unless his production increases significantly (and not just one year). This is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. ;)

 

yea thats what I was saying...

 

 

anywho the sabres won't make any moves of note and we will win just enough to screw up the drafting of Grigorenko resulting instead in the drafting of a smalish, winger who is a finesse player... :wallbash: can't wait...

 

Um, didn't we draft a smallish finesse winger late in the first round of 2008 that you seem to think will be our #1 or #2 center next year? :P

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

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Posted

I'm not implying that we keep him as our #1. We need a #1. All I'm saying is I don't want him shipped off for prospects and/or picks. But I find it funny that just because Ennis has had a good couple of weeks at center that all of a sudden he is our #1 guy. Sorry, I need much more time of him producing the way he is to convince me, especially if he is used at #1 and other teams figure it out and plan accordingly on defense. Some people can be so critical of some of the players we have, yet get all giddy when somebody like Ennis shows promise over just a couple of games at a new position. I remember all the hoopla about Kassian when he was called up and had a good couple of games to start.

 

I don't think Roy would be asking that much unless his production increases significantly (and not just one year). This is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. ;)

 

Not addressing Roy's trade value, we can agree to disagree :flirt:

 

I'm not sold that Ennis is a #1, and at this point I definitely am not ready to say he's a #1 for us if/when we become a Cup contender. But I do think he's a center, and Vanek/Pominville produced with Adam, Hecht, Chewy at center. Safe to say I think Ennis is a significant upgrade over all of them in the talent department, I think he'd plug in just fine for a season and would actually be better than what we've seen this year.

 

I think Roy could easily get $5.5 per year. Tuomo Ruutu just signed 4 years $4.75 per, and he's never hit 60 points in his career and he's hurt all the time. Free agency does crazy things :P

JJFIVEOH All Star

JJFIVEOH

Posted
Posted

Not addressing Roy's trade value, we can agree to disagree :flirt:

 

I'm not sold that Ennis is a #1, and at this point I definitely am not ready to say he's a #1 for us if/when we become a Cup contender. But I do think he's a center, and Vanek/Pominville produced with Adam, Hecht, Chewy at center. Safe to say I think Ennis is a significant upgrade over all of them in the talent department, I think he'd plug in just fine for a season and would actually be better than what we've seen this year.

 

I think Roy could easily get $5.5 per year. Tuomo Ruutu just signed 4 years $4.75 per, and he's never hit 60 points in his career and he's hurt all the time. Free agency does crazy things :P

 

Either way, I'm not getting my hopes up. But, it should be an interesting Sunday and Monday so who knows maybe DR will surprise us. I don't see him doing anything until after the Rangers game though.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

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Posted

Either way, I'm not getting my hopes up. But, it should be an interesting Sunday and Monday so who knows maybe DR will surprise us. I don't see him doing anything until after the Rangers game though.

 

Yea pretty much, if he does anything before Sunday I'd expect it to be Boyes for a 5th or something like that.

 

 

 

Spector's Hockey ‏ @SpectorsHockey

Bob McKenzie also reporting Kings Dustin Brown is in play. Looks like they're not done.

 

I have no idea what it would take, but if I'm Darcy, I'm definitely inquiring.

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