shrader Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 That "only one all star game" argument is also a bit weak. That is completely subjective, especially thanks to the rule where someone from each team must be represented (Nash's annual free pass). Vanek wasn't even an all star in his top statistical season.
korab rules Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 because theres only so much that you can do without atleast some surrounding talent. How am I reaching? I simply pointed out that the Sabres have not been nearly as bad in Comparison to the Blue jackets. A bad year for the Sabres would be an upgrade for the Blue Jackets If vaneks just as good as Nash, why aren't there rumors of teams making offers to try and get him? Why hasn't he made more then one All Star game over his career? Why is he never talked about outside of Buffalo when talking about top Forwards? Why has he never lead the league in scoring? Why has he never been selected to represent his home country in the Olympics? Give it a rest with your canadian love. You are reaching for anything to explain why Nash's state are no better than Vaneks even though you asert he is hands down a better player and 9 of 10 GM's would pick him over Vanek. There aren't rumors of teams making offers to get Vanek, as he hasn't been placed on the auction block like Nash. If Nash is so elite, why are they trying to trade him 2 years in to an 8 year contract? Vanek's best season was better than the season Nash tied for the league lead in goals - tieing for the Rockey Richard award with only 41 goals is nothing to brag about - if Nash was good enough to overcome the talent gap that year, why not since? And as Lanny pointed out, there is no Austrian Olympic hockey team - but Vanek is hands down the greatest hockey player ever to come from Austria - Nash isn't even in the top 50 players to come from his country. My point isn't that Vanek is elite, whatever that term means - my point is that Nash is no better than Vanek. The stats agree with me, despite your promises that I am wrong. Nash career stats: NHL Totals 649 277 250 527 556 4 1 2 3 2 2002-03 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 74 17 22 39 78 -27 -- -- -- -- -- 2003-04 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 80 41 16 57 87 -35 -- -- -- -- -- 2005-06 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 54 31 23 54 51 5 -- -- -- -- -- 2006-07 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 75 27 30 57 73 -8 -- -- -- -- -- 2007-08 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 80 38 31 69 95 2 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 78 40 39 79 52 11 4 1 2 3 2 2009-10 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 76 33 34 67 58 -2 -- -- -- -- -- 2010-11 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 75 32 34 66 34 2 -- -- -- -- -- 2011-12 Columbus Blue Jackets NHL 57 18 21 39 28 -22 Vanek's career stats: NHL Totals 522 224 205 429 328 36 15 5 20 18 2005-06 Buffalo Sabres NHL 81 25 23 48 72 -11 10 2 0 2 6 2006-07 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 43 41 84 40 47 16 6 4 10 10 2007-08 Buffalo Sabres NHL 82 36 28 64 64 -5 -- -- -- -- -- 2008-09 Buffalo Sabres NHL 73 40 24 64 44 -1 -- -- -- -- -- 2009-10 Buffalo Sabres NHL 71 28 25 53 42 9 3 2 1 3 2 2010-11 Buffalo Sabres NHL 80 32 41 73 24 2 7 5 0 5 0 2011-12 Buffalo Sabres NHL 53 20 23 43 42 -5 These number come out to .4268 gpg, .3852 apg and .812 ppg for Nash, .4291 gpg, .3927 apg and .8218 ppg for Vanek.
LGR4GM Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Does Nash play center? NO. Should the Sabres trade their future to get a 31 yr old who does not even play the 1 position they need? NO. Any questions? And here are some Stats to make half of you mad and the other half to see tell me to watch more hockey... Vanek: 0.822 PPGA 0.429 GPGA Nash: 0.812 PPGA 0.427 GPGA Pominville: 0.798 PPGA 0.322 GPGA Nash is more physical true, but we have 2 players on the team already that produce on a level that is above and just below Nash. Nash only becomes relevant if you plan to trade Ennis and put Nash in as the "2nd" line lw. There are a lot of if's about all of this. It makes your team more physical. It also makes them older. 6 to 1, half a dozen to another... the real question is does this improve the team? ps. I say Ennis is gone not only because of the same position issue but also because with Nash's salary there is no way we could resign Tyler. pss. Carry on.
spndnchz Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'd still trade Roy and Stafford for Nash.
korab rules Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'd still trade Roy and Stafford for Nash. I'd be willing to sweeten the pot - throw in a second.
apuszczalowski Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'd still trade Roy and Stafford for Nash. but why?We already have Vanek and he isn't a Center which apparently is the only position they should be trying to improve
LGR4GM Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 I'd still trade Roy and Stafford for Nash. I'd be willing to sweeten the pot - throw in a second. but would Columbus do this and if that happens then Ennis is permanently moved to center because he doesn't fit on the checking line. Or he is traded. Bringing in another LW of Nash's caliber changes the teams dynamic... my hang up is Nash is not a center and hes too old to sell the future to get but if its Roy and Stafford then... ok! (Which means it will never happen... to easy to say yes too)
bunomatic Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Nash don't want to come here. He wants to play on a winner. Isn't this the trade deadline thread ? Isn't there a trade rumour thread where guys are throwing out all sorts of crazy scenarios ? Just sayin.
Marvelo Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 I certainly hope so. 100% agree. While pre-TP I would have agreed that there would have been NFW that Nash (or anyone else) would waive a NTC to come here, I can definitely see it happening now. First of all, it's already happened with Regehr (and pretty much the same thing happened with Ehrhoff and Leino too in that they had their choice of quite a few suitors and chose the Sabres). It's a lot easier to be the 4th guy to do something than the 1st guy. Second, while many here are down on Lindy and/or Miller, I think those 2 have very good reputations around the league. Coach and goaltending are probably the 2 most important hockey factors for a guy in Nash's position to consider. Nash also knows both of them from the Olympics. Third, the Sabres have obviously been a big disappointment this season, but no one would seriously question TP's commitment to winning and having a strong franchise. He's been throwing money at the situation and is a passionate fan. My bottom line is that with TP on the scene, I think the Sabres have a pretty good shot at just about anyone they want. I agree -- the Leafs don't have the assets. I frankly don't think Kessel, a 1st and Schenn or Kadri is nearly enough for Nash. I don't agree with this. Major stars are indeed traded at the deadline, and not that infrequently. Nash isn't a bigger name than Kovy, for example (although he's a better player, IMHO). Nash is much, much better than Vanek or Ryan. If you have the opportunity to add a guy like Nash, you make room on your roster. If the Sabres #1 line next year was Ennis-Nash-Vanek -- that would be a very competitive #1 line. Kessel is nowhere near as good as Nash. And while a Sabres package could include Ennis, I would expect CBJ to demand Myers or Miller as the centerpiece. Finally: this is a pretty good thread so far, but I can feel it coming... It might be cavalier of me, but I'd give CBJ Myers or Miller a centerpiece to a Nash deal Any Day of the Week!
LabattBlue Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 but would Columbus do this and if that happens then Ennis is permanently moved to center because he doesn't fit on the checking line. Or he is traded. Bringing in another LW of Nash's caliber changes the teams dynamic... my hang up is Nash is not a center and hes too old to sell the future to get but if its Roy and Stafford then... ok! (Which means it will never happen... to easy to say yes too) Nash only turns 28 this summer? :blink:
thesportsbuff Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 I agree -- the Leafs don't have the assets. I frankly don't think Kessel, a 1st and Schenn or Kadri is nearly enough for Nash. WOW! Really? Kessel for Nash straight up is pretty close to even if you ask me.. maybe Kessel/Kadri. But throwing in Schenn would be a GROSS overpayment, and throwing in a first round pick would absolutely cause RIOTS in Toronto... If I read that right, you're waaaay over-valuing Nash. Furthermore, though, the Leafs aren't going to move Kessel for him. So take him out and Schenn, Kadri, and first round pick for him would probably be close to the asking price for Nash. Maybe a goalie, too.
Derrico Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 It might be cavalier of me, but I'd give CBJ Myers or Miller a centerpiece to a Nash deal Any Day of the Week! Wow you're nuts. I'd trade Miller but no chance I even do Myers for Nash straight up. I think we can all agree that the Sabres are a few pieces away from the Stanley Cup. In four years time you've got Nash who will be turning 32 and making 7.8 mil versus Myers who will be what, 25 and making 5.5 mil. The salary component is huge. You don't just have to pay him that amount, it's the cap space he'll eat up that scares me. Can we really afford two guys making 7+ mil??
darksabre Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Nash only turns 28 this summer? :blink: Just let him go. He's like a cat my family used to have. No matter how hard we tried, it always wanted to walk into the road.
bunomatic Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Wow you're nuts. I'd trade Miller but no chance I even do Myers for Nash straight up. I think we can all agree that the Sabres are a few pieces away from the Stanley Cup. In four years time you've got Nash who will be turning 32 and making 7.8 mil versus Myers who will be what, 25 and making 5.5 mil. The salary component is huge. You don't just have to pay him that amount, it's the cap space he'll eat up that scares me. Can we really afford two guys making 7+ mil?? The part about being a few pieces away from the cup is imo not so cut and dry. I see probably 10 teams that are ahead of the Sabres in their development towards that goal of winning the cup. A few pieces away ? Will 2 or 3 pieces be enough to leapfrog the sabres ahead of all those teams with Regier making those decisions on who stays and who goes. I'm not so sure with what we've seen take place this year. This team is clearly not even considered close to contending by almost anyone connected in the hockey world right now. They are a trainwreck. Well, 10 or more.
TheChimp Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Why on the Sabrespace Main Page under Transactions does it say Derek Roy from Buffalo to unkown and the same for Paul Gaustad? It's dated as today? Thank you for saying that!!! Few weeks ago I nearly had a stroke of joy when I saw that Derek Roy had been traded and so had Stafford...then I realized these were just rumors. Why it's not simply CALLED "Rumors" instead of "TRansactions" is something only internet experts know I suppose. Or someone gets their kicks knowing that everyone who sees that area for the first time freaks out for a split second...come to think of it, I'd be willing to bet that's the real reason it hasn't been renamed by now ;) Just let him go. He's like a cat my family used to have. No matter how hard we tried, it always wanted to walk into the road. Did you just imply that your family allowed your cat to wander into the road and get killed by a car? That's just plain messed up. It's called keeping the animal inside. I've had a house full of cats and they haven't gotten out in eleven years. Oh and before you call ME cruel, it's called skylights and big picture windows. Sunlight is all they ever need. And room to run and things to climb. And balled up pieces of paper. And smart owners.
FolignosJock Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 but why? We already have Vanek and he isn't a Center which apparently is the only position they should be trying to improve No its not but it is the first position thats we should improve.... Nash isnt that great and there is no way we should trade myers straight up for him. If roy and stafford could get it done, which it cant obviously i would do it. All i am saying is that if we want to add a bunch of salary for a LW it still doesnt solve our center issue.
Marvelo Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Wow you're nuts. I'd trade Miller but no chance I even do Myers for Nash straight up. I think we can all agree that the Sabres are a few pieces away from the Stanley Cup. In four years time you've got Nash who will be turning 32 and making 7.8 mil versus Myers who will be what, 25 and making 5.5 mil. The salary component is huge. You don't just have to pay him that amount, it's the cap space he'll eat up that scares me. Can we really afford two guys making 7+ mil?? Wow you're nuts isn't a great way to start an argument pal. In my opinion, Myers just isn't that good. He's big. He's got reach but he isn't that good. I've gone on record about what I think are his shortcomings. Basically he had a good rookie year and that's it. You're projecting hm out to be a superstar but I don't see it. We have a glut of d-men in the pipeline; I don't see it as a major loss. As far as salary component, I'd let the bean counters work that out. Not my job. Anyway a big market team like the Rangers or Kings will probably land Nash so it's a moot point. Oh yeah, and I don't see the Sabres a few pieces away from the Stanley Cup. No way.
FolignosJock Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Wow you're nuts isn't a great way to start an argument pal. In my opinion, Myers just isn't that good. He's big. He's got reach but he isn't that good. I've gone on record about what I think are his shortcomings. Basically he had a good rookie year and that's it. You're projecting hm out to be a superstar but I don't see it. We have a glut of d-men in the pipeline; I don't see it as a major loss. As far as salary component, I'd let the bean counters work that out. Not my job. Anyway a big market team like the Rangers or Kings will probably land Nash so it's a moot point. Oh yeah, and I don't see the Sabres a few pieces away from the Stanley Cup. No way. hahaha ok BUD you know the salary though you cant talk about trades with players and not figure in their salary.... let the bean counters figure it out??? not your job? do you have a staff here that does all the salary figures for you?
SwampD Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 The Chimp is a cat lady? Who knew? :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkMvKeX7erI
apuszczalowski Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Did you just imply that your family allowed your cat to wander into the road and get killed by a car? That's just plain messed up. It's called keeping the animal inside. I've had a house full of cats and they haven't gotten out in eleven years. Oh and before you call ME cruel, it's called skylights and big picture windows. Sunlight is all they ever need. And room to run and things to climb. And balled up pieces of paper. And smart owners. I have 2 indoor cats too (one is named Miller because i refused to let it keep the name given to it by the SPCA cause I knew where teh name came from, Edward). We let them out but they have a harness on and a leash tied to an old clothesline to run around in the backyard (its a requirement around here that they aren't supposed to be allowed to roam free even though I don't think its enforced).
Marvelo Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 hahaha ok BUD you know the salary though you cant talk about trades with players and not figure in their salary.... let the bean counters figure it out??? not your job? do you have a staff here that does all the salary figures for you? I figure they can dump salary here and there until they make up for a Nash. But why stop there when you can have Nash AND Kane? ;)
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Did you just imply that your family allowed your cat to wander into the road and get killed by a car? That's just plain messed up. It's called keeping the animal inside. I've had a house full of cats and they haven't gotten out in eleven years. Oh and before you call ME cruel, it's called skylights and big picture windows. Sunlight is all they ever need. And room to run and things to climb. And balled up pieces of paper. And smart owners. Amen to all that, brother. Jakey loves his balled up paper too. I have 2 indoor cats too (one is named Miller because i refused to let it keep the name given to it by the SPCA cause I knew where teh name came from, Edward). We let them out but they have a harness on and a leash tied to an old clothesline to run around in the backyard (its a requirement around here that they aren't supposed to be allowed to roam free even though I don't think its enforced). Jakey goes out on his leash and harness, but only when we are with him ... he's pretty cute, if I do say so myself (proud papa), walking around the neighbourhood like that ... everybody in the neighbourhood loves Jake. Are you in Halifax by chance?
nfreeman Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 WOW! Really? Kessel for Nash straight up is pretty close to even if you ask me.. maybe Kessel/Kadri. But throwing in Schenn would be a GROSS overpayment, and throwing in a first round pick would absolutely cause RIOTS in Toronto... If I read that right, you're waaaay over-valuing Nash. Furthermore, though, the Leafs aren't going to move Kessel for him. So take him out and Schenn, Kadri, and first round pick for him would probably be close to the asking price for Nash. Maybe a goalie, too. Are you on drugs? You do realize that Schenn is still getting healthy-scratched, that Kadri is still bouncing up and down from the AHL and that the Leafs' #1 is likely to be in the teens? And that Nash is a no-BS true star player? Or do you think the Sabres can get Malkin for Roy and Stafford?
BuffaTB Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Luke Schenn is a +7 with 2 goals and 15 assists in 56 GP. Idk where u get ur info from, but u should start lookin somewhere else. Toronto would riot if they gave up schenn and kessel for nash, let alone kadri and a 1st on top of it.
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