2012 Trade Deadline Thread

[shrader]

Columbus would lose it's entire identity if they lost Nash. They would have to build their team around... Carter? :bag:

 

That's very true. But at the same time, what exactly is that identity? They can't be viewed any lower than they already are.

 

I don't agree with this. Major stars are indeed traded at the deadline, and not that infrequently. Nash isn't a bigger name than Kovy, for example (although he's a better player, IMHO).

 

Kovalchuk had been on the block nearly the entire season and was moved a couple weeks before the deadline. This one has been dropped on us nearly last second. They won't find anything.

[Samson's Flow]

While pre-TP I would have agreed that there would have been NFW that Nash (or anyone else) would waive a NTC to come here, I can definitely see it happening now. First of all, it's already happened with Regehr (and pretty much the same thing happened with Ehrhoff and Leino too in that they had their choice of quite a few suitors and chose the Sabres). It's a lot easier to be the 4th guy to do something than the 1st guy.

 

Second, while many here are down on Lindy and/or Miller, I think those 2 have very good reputations around the league. Coach and goaltending are probably the 2 most important hockey factors for a guy in Nash's position to consider. Nash also knows both of them from the Olympics. Third, the Sabres have obviously been a big disappointment this season, but no one would seriously question TP's commitment to winning and having a strong franchise. He's been throwing money at the situation and is a passionate fan.

 

My bottom line is that with TP on the scene, I think the Sabres have a pretty good shot at just about anyone they want.

 

I don't agree with this. Major stars are indeed traded at the deadline, and not that infrequently. Nash isn't a bigger name than Kovy, for example (although he's a better player, IMHO).

And while a Sabres package could include Ennis, I would expect CBJ to demand Myers or Miller as the centerpiece.

I snipped some of the post to save space, but I wanted to comment on your responses.

 

While I do agree to a certain extent that TP was/is a game changer in terms of bringing in higher level FA's, won't a guy like Nash take into account that while TP was able to convince Regher to come to Buffalo, from an outsider's perspective that appears to have been a lateral move for him at best. It would take quite a bit of effort to convince a guy like Nash, who has been a perennial cellar-dweller in Columbus to come to a comparably ###### team here.

 

If you were in his shoes would you really chose Buffalo over a Detroit or Toronto? If Columbus trades him it will be for a good price regardless so we would really have to overpay with prospects/players to get him. and then even then he may say no with his NMC - although I don't peg him as a selfish type that would hurt Columbus by preventing a trade.

 

The Miller and Ruff factor is something I hadn't considered and is certainly interesting. However, it is pure speculation on both of our parts as to whether Nash likes or respects either of those guys to make it a factor.

[Koomkie]

I certainly hope so.

 

 

 

100% agree.

 

 

 

 

While pre-TP I would have agreed that there would have been NFW that Nash (or anyone else) would waive a NTC to come here, I can definitely see it happening now. First of all, it's already happened with Regehr (and pretty much the same thing happened with Ehrhoff and Leino too in that they had their choice of quite a few suitors and chose the Sabres). It's a lot easier to be the 4th guy to do something than the 1st guy.

 

Second, while many here are down on Lindy and/or Miller, I think those 2 have very good reputations around the league. Coach and goaltending are probably the 2 most important hockey factors for a guy in Nash's position to consider. Nash also knows both of them from the Olympics. Third, the Sabres have obviously been a big disappointment this season, but no one would seriously question TP's commitment to winning and having a strong franchise. He's been throwing money at the situation and is a passionate fan.

 

My bottom line is that with TP on the scene, I think the Sabres have a pretty good shot at just about anyone they want.

 

 

 

I agree -- the Leafs don't have the assets. I frankly don't think Kessel, a 1st and Schenn or Kadri is nearly enough for Nash.

 

 

 

I don't agree with this. Major stars are indeed traded at the deadline, and not that infrequently. Nash isn't a bigger name than Kovy, for example (although he's a better player, IMHO).

 

 

 

Nash is much, much better than Vanek or Ryan. If you have the opportunity to add a guy like Nash, you make room on your roster.

 

If the Sabres #1 line next year was Ennis-Nash-Vanek -- that would be a very competitive #1 line.

 

 

 

Kessel is nowhere near as good as Nash.

 

And while a Sabres package could include Ennis, I would expect CBJ to demand Myers or Miller as the centerpiece.

 

Finally: this is a pretty good thread so far, but I can feel it coming...

really good post.

i like what you had said about the appeal of having solid coaching, goaltending, and of course dedicated ownership.

 

i don't know if we can compare his trade timetable to kovys because he was on his way to being a FA and they wanted to make sure they got something for him. nash is signed for a few more years so they can really sit on it and get the best deal.

so it is kind of a bummer because we wont be able to use pegulas money as a direct incentive for nash by giving him big signing bonuses and such, but hopefully nash will be able to realize that t. pegs will spend that money on players to help.

i think if we have finishers like nash and vanek on the same line you may not need an elite #1 center...i think a competent center can easily get the job done with those two guys on the wing. also think of our powerplay!

i think ennis could be wasted on that line just because of his incredible speed, but i could be wrong because his ability to hold onto the puck would be great and may allow time for them to get open. i think moving leino back to center or having pommers be the center would honestly be an interesting experiment. leino seems to be picking up his game finally and he is crafty, while pommers has been playing a lot of center and i think could really make some great plays with these guys.

 

last, i don't think that miller will be a centerpiece, although i would be fine if it is...columbus is definitely trying to get younger if they get rid of nash so i don't feel miller will make sense. myers will of course (in which case i would not trade him) but i think we could still put together a good package, mainly filled with solid blue line prospects and a couple forwards (stafford, gerbe) and picks.

have no clue exactly what they want but i would think enroth would be a real nice piece for them. mason is a joke.

 

another thing...if we are keeping miller and not trading him, our window of winning a cup with him is getting shorter and shorter...nash improves this team tremendously right now and would gives us a nice chance in the NEXT couple years.

[FolignosJock]

Your kidding, right?

 

 

I am really not... what do we have to give up for him? Vanek or Myers is what I would guess and he isnt having that great of a year. We have a top line LW, we could use another sure but who cares if they dont have a center? The pieces needed to give up for him are needed to get us a center. I like Nash he is a good player but I find it funny if the people here that dont feel that vanek is elite, think that nash is elite...

[ROCBuffalo]

If Buffalo lived to the expectation of this year, then yes, we would have been a even greater team by this trade deadline cause people would want to come.

[FolignosJock]

As I said in the buyers or sellers thread, I'm simply not interested in Nash or his contract. I know I'll probably be in the minority, but I just can't see us putting together the type of package that would make sense for Columbus and for us. Does having $15 mil tied up in 2 wingers make sense for us? We already can't properly use Vanek, let alone 2 Vaneks. It's the same reason I was never really interested in Bobby Ryan. It's not that I wouldn't love Nash or Ryan on the team, it's that when you add up what we would have to send packing in addition to salary cap implications and our need at center, I just don't see that type of move getting us a whole lot closer to the Cup. To make a football analogy...it would be awesome to have Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson, but if you're QB is Kevin Kolb, you're still not winning anything.

 

THIS

 

I totally agee and maybe I am the only one on this thread that doesnt think Nash is all that. He doesnt hit like he should at his size and he is good on the puck but I really dont think he is that great defensively either... I have always felt like he was bad in his zone and looking at his career -74 is pretty astounding. I dont think Rick Nash helps this team.

 

if we want a big guy then go after david backes not nash

[That Aud Smell]

If the Sabres #1 line next year was Ennis-Nash-Vanek -- that would be a very competitive #1 line.

 

where's the fapping emoticon?

 

:ph34r:

 

I like Nash he is a good player but I find it funny if the people here that dont feel that vanek is elite, think that nash is elite...

 

this is not unfair (so it's fair, i guess). looking at their raw #s, they have comparable PPG #'s (not the end-all be-all stat, i know).

 

EDIT: that PPG # is ~.81-.82.

[Koomkie]

I am really not... what do we have to give up for him? Vanek or Myers is what I would guess and he isnt having that great of a year. We have a top line LW, we could use another sure but who cares if they dont have a center? The pieces needed to give up for him are needed to get us a center. I like Nash he is a good player but I find it funny if the people here that dont feel that vanek is elite, think that nash is elite...

nash is a rw

[FolignosJock]

where's the fapping emoticon?

 

:ph34r:

 

 

 

this is not unfair (so it's fair, i guess). looking at their raw #s, they have comparable PPG #'s (not the end-all be-all stat, i know).

 

EDIT: that PPG # is ~.81-.82.

 

 

EXACTLY and Vanek is a +36

 

Nash reminds me of stafford and if he was on my team I would hate him just like i do stafford

 

nash is a rw

 

Saw him listed as going both ways :P

[Koomkie]

EXACTLY and Vanek is a +36

 

Nash reminds me of stafford and if he was on my team I would hate him just like i do stafford

 

 

 

Saw him listed as going both ways :P

 

he he he he nice :thumbsup:

[LabattBlue]

If I am Columbus, I move Nash in the off-season, not at the deadline. There are only so many buyers at the deadline, versus in the off-season when cap space goes up as contracts go off the books, and all teams are looking to make moves.

[That Aud Smell]

Nash reminds me of stafford and if he was on my team I would hate him just like i do stafford

 

:blink:

 

(i thought it was fair to equate nash with vanek ... but stafford?!)

[FolignosJock]

:blink:

 

(i thought it was fair to equate nash with vanek ... but stafford?!)

 

Production yes

 

 

I just think he is a guy with size who doesnt use it enough I guess that does not a stafford make but it is my main problem with him

[shrader]

If I am Columbus, I move Nash in the off-season, not at the deadline. There are only so many buyers at the deadline, versus in the off-season when cap space goes up as contracts go off the books, and all teams are looking to make moves.

 

Not to mention that in the offseason they have so much more time to convince him that going to team X isn't such a bad choice after all. With this short of a window and a short list of teams he's willing to move to, they're going to get screwed over if they make the deal now.

[...]

OMG! Which thread is the right thread? I'm so confused...

[Samson's Flow]

OMG! Which thread is the right thread? I'm so confused...

that's why I consciously stopped using this thread for Nash speculation...

[apuszczalowski]

Nash

27 years old (8 year NHL vet), RW/LW

5 time NHL All Star

1 time maurice Richard Trophy winner

6 time 30+ goal scorer (2 times 40 goal scorer)

Olympic Gold Medalist

All while on a Blue Jackets team thats made the playoffs once

 

Vanek

28 years old (6 year NHL vet), LW

1 Time NHL All Star

Lead the league 1 year in Plus/Minus rating

4 time 30+ goal scorer (2 time 40 goal scorer)

All while with the Sabres

 

I would say one is viewed as an elite NHLer while the other is viewed as just a very good player

[That Aud Smell]

Nash

27 years old (8 year NHL vet), RW/LW

5 time NHL All Star

1 time maurice Richard Trophy winner

6 time 30+ goal scorer (2 times 40 goal scorer)

Olympic Gold Medalist

All while on a Blue Jackets team thats made the playoffs once

 

Vanek

28 years old (6 year NHL vet), LW

1 Time NHL All Star

Lead the league 1 year in Plus/Minus rating

4 time 30+ goal scorer (2 time 40 goal scorer)

All while with the Sabres

 

I would say one is viewed as an elite NHLer while the other is viewed as just a very good player

 

this is a better overview than the PPG, i will admit.

 

i dunno. i don't follow the league closely enough to know what to think of his game and whether he's "elite" whereas vanek is just "very good."

 

my sense is that if the "elite" forwards are encompassed within, say, the top 20 forwards of the league (maybe not a fair cut-off point), then vanek would be in the next tier of "very good" forwards.

 

and would nash would be toward the bottom part of that first tier? and might vanek be toward the top of that second tier?

 

like i said, i dunno. just strikes me that the difference between those two guys is probably not all that huge.

[korab rules]

Nash

27 years old (8 year NHL vet), RW/LW

5 time NHL All Star

1 time maurice Richard Trophy winner

6 time 30+ goal scorer (2 times 40 goal scorer)

Olympic Gold Medalist

All while on a Blue Jackets team thats made the playoffs once

 

Vanek

28 years old (6 year NHL vet), LW

1 Time NHL All Star

Lead the league 1 year in Plus/Minus rating

4 time 30+ goal scorer (2 time 40 goal scorer)

All while with the Sabres

 

I would say one is viewed as an elite NHLer while the other is viewed as just a very good player

Is that a distinction without a difference? Vanek will have 6 30+ goal season after 8 seasons in the league as well.

 

Statistically, Vanek is every bit Nash's equal - factoring in +/- and post season production, you could argue he is better.

 

this is a better overview than the PPG, i will admit.

 

i dunno. i don't follow the league closely enough to know what to think of his game and whether he's "elite" whereas vanek is just "very good."

 

my sense is that if the "elite" forwards are encompassed within, say, the top 20 forwards of the league (maybe not a fair cut-off point), then vanek would be in the next tier of "very good" forwards.

 

and would nash would be toward the bottom part of that first tier? and might vanek be toward the top of that second tier?

 

like i said, i dunno. just strikes me that the difference between those two guys is probably not all that huge.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

[nfreeman]

If you were in his shoes would you really chose Buffalo over a Detroit or Toronto?

 

I take your point, but I don't see Detroit making the fundamental changes to their team (ie parting with enough assets) that would be required to bring in Nash. I also don't think Toronto has sufficient assets to make it worth CBJ's while.

 

If I am Columbus, I move Nash in the off-season, not at the deadline. There are only so many buyers at the deadline, versus in the off-season when cap space goes up as contracts go off the books, and all teams are looking to make moves.

 

I don't agree. I think you get the best price when everyone gets deal fever at the deadline.

 

where's the fapping emoticon?

 

I had to google this, and then I had to wash my hands.

 

really good post.

i like what you had said about the appeal of having solid coaching, goaltending, and of course dedicated ownership.

 

i don't know if we can compare his trade timetable to kovys because he was on his way to being a FA and they wanted to make sure they got something for him. nash is signed for a few more years so they can really sit on it and get the best deal.

so it is kind of a bummer because we wont be able to use pegulas money as a direct incentive for nash by giving him big signing bonuses and such, but hopefully nash will be able to realize that t. pegs will spend that money on players to help.

i think if we have finishers like nash and vanek on the same line you may not need an elite #1 center...i think a competent center can easily get the job done with those two guys on the wing. also think of our powerplay!

i think ennis could be wasted on that line just because of his incredible speed, but i could be wrong because his ability to hold onto the puck would be great and may allow time for them to get open. i think moving leino back to center or having pommers be the center would honestly be an interesting experiment. leino seems to be picking up his game finally and he is crafty, while pommers has been playing a lot of center and i think could really make some great plays with these guys.

 

last, i don't think that miller will be a centerpiece, although i would be fine if it is...columbus is definitely trying to get younger if they get rid of nash so i don't feel miller will make sense. myers will of course (in which case i would not trade him) but i think we could still put together a good package, mainly filled with solid blue line prospects and a couple forwards (stafford, gerbe) and picks.

have no clue exactly what they want but i would think enroth would be a real nice piece for them. mason is a joke.

 

another thing...if we are keeping miller and not trading him, our window of winning a cup with him is getting shorter and shorter...nash improves this team tremendously right now and would gives us a nice chance in the NEXT couple years.

 

There I was, cruising smoothly through this post, agreeing with just about everything, and then I smashed into a brick wall of nonsense.

 

Nash

27 years old (8 year NHL vet), RW/LW

5 time NHL All Star

1 time maurice Richard Trophy winner

6 time 30+ goal scorer (2 times 40 goal scorer)

Olympic Gold Medalist

All while on a Blue Jackets team thats made the playoffs once

 

Vanek

28 years old (6 year NHL vet), LW

1 Time NHL All Star

Lead the league 1 year in Plus/Minus rating

4 time 30+ goal scorer (2 time 40 goal scorer)

All while with the Sabres

 

I would say one is viewed as an elite NHLer while the other is viewed as just a very good player

 

Correct.

[nobody]

that's why I consciously stopped using this thread for Nash speculation...

 

Yes - this thread I thought was for discussing actual trades that occur while the rumor thread was for the fun (or silly) speculation.

[Koomkie]

I take your point, but I don't see Detroit making the fundamental changes to their team (ie parting with enough assets) that would be required to bring in Nash. I also don't think Toronto has sufficient assets to make it worth CBJ's while.

 

 

 

I don't agree. I think you get the best price when everyone gets deal fever at the deadline.

 

 

 

I had to google this, and then I had to wash my hands.

 

 

 

There I was, cruising smoothly through this post, agreeing with just about everything, and then I smashed into a brick wall of nonsense.

 

 

 

Correct.

 

hahaha

just curious, why so?i think we have a great stockpile of young d-men just waiting to come up...and quite a few young forward prospects that we could pass along. you don't think it is possible for the sabres to come up with a good package of youngsters and maybe a couple nhlers to help columbus through their rebuild? especially if they "fail for nail" i think they will be wanting some good d and fwd prospects to join him when he hits the nhl.

obviously not sure what it would take, but that or a goalie seems about right

[Weave]

Considering trading for Nash had me thinking back to the last time Buffalo made a trade for an elite level forward, Pat LaFontaine. Buffalo gave up their best forward, arguably their best young D man, and a promising young player for an elite center, a bottom pair D-man, and a 2nd-3rd line forward.

 

If we relate the LaFontaine trade to Nash I see Columbus asking for the two Tylers and probably another decent young rostered player. Does the deal happen if McNabb and Kassian plus another good yet not expensive player (two true blue chip D and F prospects) replaces the two Tylers? Could it work for both teams if it ended up Roy, McNabb, and Kassian for Nash and Brassard? My initial thought is, Columbus wants improvement NOW. Given that, I'm not sure they want a couple guys who aren't established yet. But....... everything I have read suggests they don't want much in the way of contracts coming back.

 

My gut tells me no Myers, no deal.

 

 

 

Ugh- I just saw the other thread. This all needs to get mergified.

[FolignosJock]

Nash

27 years old (8 year NHL vet), RW/LW

5 time NHL All Star

1 time maurice Richard Trophy winner

6 time 30+ goal scorer (2 times 40 goal scorer)

Olympic Gold Medalist

All while on a Blue Jackets team thats made the playoffs once

 

Vanek

28 years old (6 year NHL vet), LW

1 Time NHL All Star

Lead the league 1 year in Plus/Minus rating

4 time 30+ goal scorer (2 time 40 goal scorer)

All while with the Sabres

 

I would say one is viewed as an elite NHLer while the other is viewed as just a very good player

 

What korab said.... I would take vanek over nash most days

[nfreeman]

hahaha

just curious, why so?i think we have a great stockpile of young d-men just waiting to come up...and quite a few young forward prospects that we could pass along. you don't think it is possible for the sabres to come up with a good package of youngsters and maybe a couple nhlers to help columbus through their rebuild? especially if they "fail for nail" i think they will be wanting some good d and fwd prospects to join him when he hits the nhl.

obviously not sure what it would take, but that or a goalie seems about right

Considering trading for Nash had me thinking back to the last time Buffalo made a trade for an elite level forward, Pat LaFontaine. Buffalo gave up their best forward, arguably their best young D man, and a promising young player for an elite center, a bottom pair D-man, and a 2nd-3rd line forward.

 

If we relate the LaFontaine trade to Nash I see Columbus asking for the two Tylers and probably another decent young rostered player. Does the deal happen if McNabb and Kassian plus another good yet not expensive player (two true blue chip D and F prospects) replaces the two Tylers? Could it work for both teams if it ended up Roy, McNabb, and Kassian for Nash and Brassard? My initial thought is, Columbus wants improvement NOW. Given that, I'm not sure they want a couple guys who aren't established yet. But....... everything I have read suggests they don't want much in the way of contracts coming back.

 

My gut tells me no Myers, no deal.

 

Koomkie -- Weave beat me to it. There is NFW anyone is giving the Sabres an elite player in exchange for the pu-pu platter of miscellaneous picks, prospects and overpaid underachievers. Best case for the Sabres would be for CBJ to take Miller instead of Myers. In that situation I would expect them to require some combination of Ennis, Kassian and McNabb to be included with Miller.