Thoughts on Pominville's captaincy

[nfreeman]

If we make Gaustad the captain after he pussed out earlier this year when Miller got run, we might as well just contract the team. He literally just skated the other way after seeing our *star* goalie (and his supposed best friend) get run. Then after two weeks and a visit to the Wizard of Oz to find his courage, we saw the Bruins again and he engaged in the single greatest "not in the face!" fight with Lucic that any of us have ever seen. Thrilling stuff.

 

Gaustad isn't really big or strong or tough. Even if he's vocal, it's not like he backs that up on the ice. He's just a mediocre hockey player whose best asset is apparently that he's sorta tall.

He literally skated right into a throng of Bruins and other Sabres that were piled up after the incident. He figuratively skated the other way. (He figure-skated away?)

 

Either way, can't make him a captain now. Nope.

 

Leaving aside the wild exaggerations that permeate Robviously's post, I certainly agree that he can't be made captain now.

[Robviously]

He literally skated right into a throng of Bruins and other Sabres that were piled up after the incident. He figuratively skated the other way. (He figure-skated away?)

 

Either way, can't make him a captain now. Nope.

I would say he made a figurative attempt to get at Lucic but literally made sure he didn't get to him.

 

Gaustad is really awesome at pretending he's about to whoop some ass. Was it one or two months ago that he was mouthing off to the other team's bench about how he was going to go after their goalie when he was leaving the ice, and then it turned out he was leaving the game with a shoulder injury?

 

Gaustad is basically that guy at the bar who makes a big deal about talking tough and saying how much ass he's going to kick, but then mysteriously manages to never actually fight anyone. We get it, Paul. You're a crazy badass and one of these days you're totally going to prove it so watch out!

 

 

Leaving aside the wild exaggerations that permeate Robviously's post, I certainly agree that he can't be made captain now.

Please correct my "wild exaggerations." Maybe Paul Gaustad is seriously an awesome player but I somehow missed seeing any evidence of that from following his entire NHL career.

[nfreeman]

I would say he made a figurative attempt to get at Lucic but literally made sure he didn't get to him.

 

Gaustad is really awesome at pretending he's about to whoop some ass. Was it one or two months ago that he was mouthing off to the other team's bench about how he was going to go after their goalie when he was leaving the ice, and then it turned out he was leaving the game with a shoulder injury?

 

Gaustad is basically that guy at the bar who makes a big deal about talking tough and saying how much ass he's going to kick, but then mysteriously manages to never actually fight anyone. We get it, Paul. You're a crazy badass and one of these days you're totally going to prove it so watch out!

 

 

Please correct my "wild exaggerations." Maybe Paul Gaustad is seriously an awesome player but I somehow missed seeing any evidence of that from following his entire NHL career.

 

Well, there are subjective items that I will assume you will disagree on, like your characterization of his fight with Lucic in the post-Miller rematch and his play vs Philly in the playoffs last year. But there are also some incontrovertible facts: did you miss him fighting Phaneuf, Thornton and Westgarth and challenging Pronger? Are those the actions of an all-talk, no-fight pretender?

[FolignosJock]

Goose has played well the last few games but I still dont see him being back on this team next year unless he makes the exact same money he does now. He doesnt deserve a raise and in this Center deprived league they are driving the price up.

[Robviously]

Item by item:

Well, there are subjective items that I will assume you will disagree on, like your characterization of his fight with Lucic in the post-Miller rematch

Even calling that a "fight" is being generous. Gaustad didn't even try to hurt Lucic. As soon as he dropped the gloves, his goal was to hang on for dear life until the refs could escort him to the safety of the penalty box. Lucic looked bored.

 

I know this board talks about Lucic like he's a T-800 but there are plenty of fights on YouTube where other NHL players do OK against him. Gaustad looked like a skinny tall guy who wanted to be anywhere else during that fight. And that was the *revenge* fight to make up for Lucic running his best friend and sidelining him with a concussion!

 

and his play vs Philly in the playoffs last year.

The playoffs. In 38 career NHL playoff games, Goose has scored ZERO goals.

 

But there are also some incontrovertible facts: did you miss him fighting Phaneuf, Thornton and Westgarth and challenging Pronger? Are those the actions of an all-talk, no-fight pretender?

Really memorable fights there. Gaustad went to the Andrew Peters School of Fighting where "winning" is defined as holding on to the other guy's sweater and ducking.

 

Do you think any NHL team gives a crap about playing against Paul Gaustad? Like he's a big, scary physical presence around the league that people don't want to deal with?

[nfreeman]

Item by item:

Even calling that a "fight" is being generous. Gaustad didn't even try to hurt Lucic. As soon as he dropped the gloves, his goal was to hang on for dear life until the refs could escort him to the safety of the penalty box. Lucic looked bored.

 

I know this board talks about Lucic like he's a T-800 but there are plenty of fights on YouTube where other NHL players do OK against him. Gaustad looked like a skinny tall guy who wanted to be anywhere else during that fight. And that was the *revenge* fight to make up for Lucic running his best friend and sidelining him with a concussion!

 

 

The playoffs. In 38 career NHL playoff games, Goose has scored ZERO goals.

 

 

Really memorable fights there. Gaustad went to the Andrew Peters School of Fighting where "winning" is defined as holding on to the other guy's sweater and ducking.

 

Do you think any NHL team gives a crap about playing against Paul Gaustad? Like he's a big, scary physical presence around the league that people don't want to deal with?

 

Evaluating his intentions or thoughts regarding any of the fights is essentially impossible, and evaluating his performance in the fights is subjective, so I won't bother to respond on those points, as you seem to have fully-formed "opinions". But you did say he was all talk, so I think it's fair to point out that he has fought some of the toughest guys in the NHL.

 

In answer to your question, I don't think any NHL team has a particular concern about playing against Gaustad. I don't think he's a great or even a very good player. But the Sabres played a very tough, physical team in Philly to a standstill in terms of hitting and physicality for 6 games last year in the playoffs, and Gaustad led the charge. (He also hid under the bed in game 7 along with every one of his teammates other than Miller.)

 

I realize that Gaustad hasn't scored a goal in the playoffs, and that he's essentially a solid 4th-line center who can flex to the 3rd line -- and no more. It's worth noting here that the Sabres "top 6" scored exactly ZERO goals in the 2nd and 3rd periods of a 7-game series last spring. Do I wish the Sabres had a guy with toughness AND skill who delivered in crunch time? Of course I do. But the lack of that guy on the Sabres' roster doesn't mean that Gaustad is as bad/soft/pusillanimous as you seem to think he is.

[That Aud Smell]

at the risk of offending freeman (who seems maybe a little annoyed), this is a quality debate.

 

no third-man in intended here, but i had some feedback on the excerpts below.

 

Even calling that a "fight" is being generous. Gaustad didn't even try to hurt Lucic. As soon as he dropped the gloves, his goal was to hang on for dear life until the refs could escort him to the safety of the penalty box. Lucic looked bored.

 

i agree that evaluating the fight is subjective. i happen to agree with this assessment.

 

I know this board talks about Lucic like he's a T-800 but there are plenty of fights on YouTube where other NHL players do OK against him.

 

indeed!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvBbo7uEmPs

 

But the lack of that guy on the Sabres' roster doesn't mean that Gaustad is as bad/soft/pusillanimous as you seem to think he is.

 

full marks there. i knew what it meant in context, but went to google to confirm its meaning and to recall how it's pronounced.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

My .02 on Pominville as captain.

 

I like it. He's a homegrown sabre, and like it or not this seems to be his breakout year. It could have never happened, but the fact of the matter is that the sabres are getting the player they gave him the contract for this year. The sad truth is that the rest of the team has hardly done anything remotely close to what he's been pulling every night with such consistancy.

 

The fact that he's excelling shows that he was the best choice in that locker room short of selling the C to the new guy in Robyn Regher.

 

Pominville is doing work and scoring when it counts. Thats good enough for me. And his all star appearance was very well deserved.

[JJFIVEOH]

I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again. Part of the problem with this years team is the lack of veteran leadership. LTS kind of made mention of this earlier. I'm not talking about the guys who have been here for a few years, I'm talking about the 35-40 year olds. Besides Hecht, nobody on this roster is over 31. Although, that was the last time I looked, I think somebody recently turned 32. I'm not talking about a late 30's veteran for a captain, just a small group of veteran old guys. Almost every team has them and they have played key roles in past Cup teams. Last year BFLO had Niedermayer, Grier and Lalime. These guys don't need to play key roles in game play, they just need to be there. Patty didn't play much but he was always positive and was a good cheerleader on the bench, not to mention important to Miller. Rivet fits that mold, I just think he got a bad rep because Lindy expected too much out of him. I think picking up one or two veteran old guys would help this team a great deal. They can be had for cheap and provide leadership. Guys like Bryan McCabe.

[fan2456]

I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again. Part of the problem with this years team is the lack of veteran leadership. LTS kind of made mention of this earlier. I'm not talking about the guys who have been here for a few years, I'm talking about the 35-40 year olds. Besides Hecht, nobody on this roster is over 31. Although, that was the last time I looked, I think somebody recently turned 32. I'm not talking about a late 30's veteran for a captain, just a small group of veteran old guys. Almost every team has them and they have played key roles in past Cup teams. Last year BFLO had Niedermayer, Grier and Lalime. These guys don't need to play key roles in game play, they just need to be there. Patty didn't play much but he was always positive and was a good cheerleader on the bench, not to mention important to Miller. Rivet fits that mold, I just think he got a bad rep because Lindy expected too much out of him. I think picking up one or two veteran old guys would help this team a great deal. They can be had for cheap and provide leadership. Guys like Bryan McCabe.

That makes sense if you're competing for a cup. We aren't, and I really don't think those 3 guys were influential in last year's run. Sorry, I just think we're grasping at straws for an explanation. WE don't have enough good players. Period. Rivet couldn't skate at an NHL level for the last two years he was here, and that's just a fact. Had we not had that once in 20 year run to make the playoffs last year, we would have heard how he was a distraction. Grier couldn't skate either, and Lalime was classy, but couldn't get on the ice for about 4 months. Sorry, I just don't buy it..

[Weave]

A bunch of folks keep bringing up Grier, Neidermayer, and Lalime like they were some great additions to the team. What did they really provide this team last year? If y'all recall, that team stunk up the place until they got some inspiration from the news of a new owner and then played an awful lot like...... wait for it......... the team is playing right now without over the hill vets on the team. And those vets certainly weren't the difference in winning a 1st round playoff series.

 

The problem with this team isn't a lack of vets, it is a lack of top 6 forwards capable of setting the pace.

[TheChimp]

Pominville leads by example. He was a good choice, IMO.

[bunomatic]

Earlier in another thread my view was that he wasn't cut out to be a captain for various reasons and I'll stand by that but Pommer has really opened my eyes this year for his play and while he doesn't meet my criteria for a good captain in a few areas I have to admit he has shown in most games this season he does lead by example, whether that leads to more wins its hard to say but he has really been strong in almost every facet of his game. He's not the type to carry a team on his back but he would certainly make a great alternate captain. He's done a pretty good job for Buffalo despite my opinion on his ability as captain.

[Eleven]

My .02 on Pominville as captain.

 

I like it. He's a homegrown sabre, and like it or not this seems to be his breakout year. It could have never happened, but the fact of the matter is that the sabres are getting the player they gave him the contract for this year. The sad truth is that the rest of the team has hardly done anything remotely close to what he's been pulling every night with such consistancy.

 

The fact that he's excelling shows that he was the best choice in that locker room short of selling the C to the new guy in Robyn Regher.

 

Pominville is doing work and scoring when it counts. Thats good enough for me. And his all star appearance was very well deserved.

 

While I disagree regarding the captaincy, I agree with almost everything else. Like freeman, I think he's overpaid, but I don't think he's "grossly" overpaid. Shave a mil off of that kx, and I'm down with it. But we do disagree on the captaincy thing.

 

That makes sense if you're competing for a cup. We aren't, and I really don't think those 3 guys were influential in last year's run. Sorry, I just think we're grasping at straws for an explanation. WE don't have enough good players. Period. Rivet couldn't skate at an NHL level for the last two years he was here, and that's just a fact. Had we not had that once in 20 year run to make the playoffs last year, we would have heard how he was a distraction. Grier couldn't skate either, and Lalime was classy, but couldn't get on the ice for about 4 months. Sorry, I just don't buy it..

 

Yep.

 

And the 35-40 set (and I am in that age group, unfortunately) is not what drives champions.

 

Sure, here comes somebody pointing out that the Bruins had a 40-year-old, or that this team or that had someone who was 37. I get it. But if that's the focus of building a team, that's a problem.

[Randall Flagg]

Before the season, I had several people ahead of him on my list. Now, I don't see anyone on this team I would prefer as a captain (accept maybe vanek, but he isn't as consistent) even if Pominville isn't the perfect leader.

[...]

On a team full of Charlie Browns, Pominville is the Charlie Browniest.

[LastPommerFan]

Having not read a single post other than the OP, I would like to state as absolute fact, that Jason Pominville is the best captain we could possible have right now, and it's not just the fact that he is never hurt on a team that resembles the portrait to his Dorian Grey.

 

In a time of economic uncertainty, he is single handedly keeping several small logging communities a float. For that he deserves our admiration and the C.

[Robviously]

Evaluating his intentions or thoughts regarding any of the fights is essentially impossible, and evaluating his performance in the fights is subjective, so I won't bother to respond on those points, as you seem to have fully-formed "opinions".

I love that you put scare quotes around the word "opinions." Are you trying to imply that my opinions aren't really opinions? Are these just something else that I'm trying to pass off as opinions?

 

 

 

But you did say he was all talk, so I think it's fair to point out that he has fought some of the toughest guys in the NHL.

Except for when they give his best friend a concussion. Then he needs two weeks to summon the courage to drop the gloves, grab an opponent's jersey, hold on as hard as he can, and then wait for the refs to rescue him.

 

He fights the way Andrew Peters used to fight. It doesn't actually accomplish anything. Gaustad is never going to be a great scorer, or a great skater, or any type of above-average NHL forward. My problem with him is that he actually could make a difference for the team by bulking up, taking a boxing lesson or two, and beating some people up. But he doesn't want to. He avoids fights and when he does fight, it rarely looks like anything. Most of the time he just skates around and doesn't do much of anything.

 

He's as much a problem as anyone else on the team. You can't have tough guys who aren't tough any more than you can have scorers who can't score. I'm hoping we finally trade him away next month but he's probably Darcy's idea of a total badass so I'm pretty sure we'll be treated to a contract extension instead.

[drnkirishone]

Pominville has impressed me this season. I think he has handled being captain very well. The only negative I can think of is after reading that article about Hitchcock and Backes, it seems to me that if Lindy thinks his team captain should do the same thing (and I think he does) then Pomenville doesn't seem to have done a good job of being the go between of the team and the coach. Of course being on the outside we can't know if it's his lacking or the other players not listening.

[JJFIVEOH]

That makes sense if you're competing for a cup. We aren't, and I really don't think those 3 guys were influential in last year's run. Sorry, I just think we're grasping at straws for an explanation. WE don't have enough good players. Period. Rivet couldn't skate at an NHL level for the last two years he was here, and that's just a fact. Had we not had that once in 20 year run to make the playoffs last year, we would have heard how he was a distraction. Grier couldn't skate either, and Lalime was classy, but couldn't get on the ice for about 4 months. Sorry, I just don't buy it..

A bunch of folks keep bringing up Grier, Neidermayer, and Lalime like they were some great additions to the team. What did they really provide this team last year? If y'all recall, that team stunk up the place until they got some inspiration from the news of a new owner and then played an awful lot like...... wait for it......... the team is playing right now without over the hill vets on the team. And those vets certainly weren't the difference in winning a 1st round playoff series.

 

The problem with this team isn't a lack of vets, it is a lack of top 6 forwards capable of setting the pace.

 

And as I said in my post, these aren't guys who would or should get a lot of ice time. They're the kind of guys who make a difference in the locker room. An no, they didn't start their run when they heard the team was being bought, they started their run when Grier and Niedermayer held a close door meeting in Calgary in January. To further prove my point, how did the "core" play last year? They played pretty damn good compared to this year. Is it just coincidence that their performance sucks now that the 'veteran' labels have been placed on them? They're crumbling under the pressure....... and it's either because they aren't good leaders, or they're just too young for it. Teams don't go out and pick up guys like that for their veteran leadership, they pick them up because they should be in their prime. They pick up guys 6,7,8 years older than them for the leadership. Who was the only person Miller thanked in his Vezina speech? Hate Patty for his performance, but he was important to Miller. Y'all can disgaree with whatever I say, but I still believe this team wouldn't have pulled a 2 month long slump if they had some resident old guys on the team.

 

Edit: I know somebody will completely ignore everything I said and tell me Pominville and Vanek aren't playing worse than last year. Obviously I was talking about Roy, Stafford, Gaustad and Miller.

[Weave]

And as I said in my post, these aren't guys who would or should get a lot of ice time. They're the kind of guys who make a difference in the locker room. An no, they didn't start their run when they heard the team was being bought, they started their run when Grier and Niedermayer held a close door meeting in Calgary in January. To further prove my point, how did the "core" play last year? They played pretty damn good compared to this year. Is it just coincidence that their performance sucks now that the 'veteran' labels have been placed on them? They're crumbling under the pressure....... and it's either because they aren't good leaders, or they're just too young for it. Teams don't go out and pick up guys like that for their veteran leadership, they pick them up because they should be in their prime. They pick up guys 6,7,8 years older than them for the leadership. Who was the only person Miller thanked in his Vezina speech? Hate Patty for his performance, but he was important to Miller. Y'all can disgaree with whatever I say, but I still believe this team wouldn't have pulled a 2 month long slump if they had some resident old guys on the team.

 

Edit: I know somebody will completely ignore everything I said and tell me Pominville and Vanek aren't playing worse than last year. Obviously I was talking about Roy, Stafford, Gaustad and Miller.

 

They had a 2 month long slump last season with some resident old guys.

[LTS]

A bunch of folks keep bringing up Grier, Neidermayer, and Lalime like they were some great additions to the team. What did they really provide this team last year? If y'all recall, that team stunk up the place until they got some inspiration from the news of a new owner and then played an awful lot like...... wait for it......... the team is playing right now without over the hill vets on the team. And those vets certainly weren't the difference in winning a 1st round playoff series.

 

The problem with this team isn't a lack of vets, it is a lack of top 6 forwards capable of setting the pace.

 

The problem with this team is a lack of top 6 forwards AND a lack of veterans to show what it takes to win.

 

While I disagree regarding the captaincy, I agree with almost everything else. Like freeman, I think he's overpaid, but I don't think he's "grossly" overpaid. Shave a mil off of that kx, and I'm down with it. But we do disagree on the captaincy thing.

 

Yep.

 

And the 35-40 set (and I am in that age group, unfortunately) is not what drives champions.

 

Sure, here comes somebody pointing out that the Bruins had a 40-year-old, or that this team or that had someone who was 37. I get it. But if that's the focus of building a team, that's a problem.

 

It's not the focus of BUILDING a team.. it's the focus of COMPLETING a team.

 

They had a 2 month long slump last season with some resident old guys.

 

Yes. Although I'm not sure if they ever looked as bad last year as they did this year. I don't recall thinking how uninspired and uninterested they were last year either. I'd say last year was Vanek's year. Until then I had no love for him. He was soft, pouty, and one-way. His play improved dramatically last year. His play has continued this year. I still think he glides a bit too much at times and only sometimes does he finish a check. He may be that guy in the future that steadies the group.. he may.

 

Pominville has played that role this year. He's had statistically good years in the past when he was on the second line and not getting the other team's best defenders playing against him. He gets that now and he still finds a way to make things happen.

 

I think together these two are starting something for the Sabres. Over the next few years they may be the guys the Sabres need.

 

Still, I think you need someone to steady things. Niedermayer had won but I don't think he was an instrumental piece of the teams he was on. Grier was highly respected for his work ethic and I think he helped. Everyone stated how much Lalime meant to them in the locker room, that's very common knowledge that he was extremely popular and if a guy who basically sucked when on the ice and played very little can still be viewed that way I think it says something.

[fan2456]

The problem with this team is a lack of top 6 forwards AND a lack of veterans to show what it takes to win.

 

 

 

It's not the focus of BUILDING a team.. it's the focus of COMPLETING a team.

 

 

 

Yes. Although I'm not sure if they ever looked as bad last year as they did this year. I don't recall thinking how uninspired and uninterested they were last year either. I'd say last year was Vanek's year. Until then I had no love for him. He was soft, pouty, and one-way. His play improved dramatically last year. His play has continued this year. I still think he glides a bit too much at times and only sometimes does he finish a check. He may be that guy in the future that steadies the group.. he may.

 

Pominville has played that role this year. He's had statistically good years in the past when he was on the second line and not getting the other team's best defenders playing against him. He gets that now and he still finds a way to make things happen.

 

I think together these two are starting something for the Sabres. Over the next few years they may be the guys the Sabres need.

 

Still, I think you need someone to steady things. Niedermayer had won but I don't think he was an instrumental piece of the teams he was on. Grier was highly respected for his work ethic and I think he helped. Everyone stated how much Lalime meant to them in the locker room, that's very common knowledge that he was extremely popular and if a guy who basically sucked when on the ice and played very little can still be viewed that way I think it says something.

Okay, get me some top 3 forwards, which I contend we don't have. I'll put Vanek as a very marginal 1rst liner when I look at teams like Chicago, Pitt, Vancouver et.al. Then I'll worry about veteran leadership to close the deal.

[JJFIVEOH]

They had a 2 month long slump last season with some resident old guys.

 

Point taken. ;)

[K-9]

I've enjoyed the various opinions in this thread concerning what attributes a player needs to be a captain. Interesting stuff.

 

I think being a captain means different things to different captains on different teams. There is no set formula. For my money, a captain needs to hate losing more than he loves winning and has to possess the personality that allows him to impose his will in the locker room. Not instill his will or impart his will, but impose his will.

 

As to whether or not Pommers is that type of player, I simply don't know. All we see is on the ice and in interviews.

 

GO SABRES!!!