Buyers or Sellers?

[TrueBlueGED]

If Kovy were hitting free agency this season, and you knew the contract it would take, are there many fans that wouldn't be begging for Kovy considering Pegula's deep pockets.

 

Probably not. Just like there's not going to be many fans who aren't begging for Parise this offseason. Neither addresses the biggest team need, but if there's no real options to address that team need, I don't think you can ever go wrong in adding elite talent, particularly if it doesn't cost anything other than money. The problem for NJ is if it costs them Parise, it's at best a wash and doesn't make them better long term.

[deluca67]

Probably not. Just like there's not going to be many fans who aren't begging for Parise this offseason. Neither addresses the biggest team need, but if there's no real options to address that team need, I don't think you can ever go wrong in adding elite talent, particularly if it doesn't cost anything other than money. The problem for NJ is if it costs them Parise, it's at best a wash and doesn't make them better long term.

Don't count on that. If Parise hits free agency he will be the #1 target of Sabre fans. A 30-40 goal scorer for a team that struggles to score. He will be on a lot of wish lists.

[TrueBlueGED]

Don't count on that. If Parise hits free agency he will be the #1 target of Sabre fans. A 30-40 goal scorer for a team that struggles to score. He will be on a lot of wish lists.

 

Right, which is what I said. If there's very few fans who don't want Parise, naturally that means that most fans do want Parise. Poor phrasing, granted.

[2ForTripping]

I would take Kovie over any forward on the Sabres.

we already have enough guys who do not play both ends of the ice....

[Weave]

we already have enough guys who do not play both ends of the ice....

 

None of whom have elite talent. Kovie does.

[bunomatic]

On Kovalchuk: the signing might actually cost them Parise. As nfreeman points out, the actual cash matters to the Devils. Also, Parise wants to be somewhere where he's "the man" and that clearly isn't New Jersey. In order to accommodate Kovy, they moved Parise over the RW and gets less ice time despite being the superior player. Kovalchuk's cap hit isn't unreasonable in any fashion, but for THAT franchise, it may well have been one of the worst decisions in the history of free agency.

 

Secondly, stripping the place to the ground and rebuilding is a complete crapshoot. I know everyone points to Pittsburgh, but they hit the lottery with a few of the best players to come out in the past 2 decades...not everyone is that lucky. Islanders, Oilers, Blue Jackets, have all bottomed out for awhile, but they're no closer to competing for a Cup than the Sabres are. Even with elite, and potentially elite, players like Tavares, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle, Nash and so on, they're STILL bottom feeders. I would LOVE some elite talent like that and from an objective standpoint believe that a top 5 pick this year would do wonders for the team, but to insinuate that a complete rebuild is the only way to make this team compete for a Cup, simply is false. And a complete rebuild is certainly no guarantee.

 

And frankly, I'm not sure anybody advocating a complete rebuild will actually have the patience for 4 years of TERRIBLE hockey while the young guns figure out what in the world they're doing. November-end of January this year? That's what we'd get every single night for at least 3 seasons. Maybe it would be more palatable if there was hope for huge upside...but at what point does it become "we've been rebuilding for 3 years, can we finally just win something?" The Islanders don't exactly have a rabid fan base despite some truly exciting young talent.

 

That said, I still think we should be sellers this year, but sellers doesn't have to mean fire sale. Move out Boyes, Gaustad, Leopold Roy and/or Stafford (or wait until the draft depending on the offers at the deadline) and try to free up cap space so making moves and signing free agents is easier in the future. Don't think anybody would disagree that it's easier to make moves if you aren't back up right to the cap. I believe the core can be shaken up, the dead weight shed, and some value added through moves such that the Sabres can improve and be a contender without blowing it up completely.

 

edit: As to the bolded, as clarified below, I remember reading an article on ESPN which quoted Parise's agent, essentially saying he wanted to be the go-to guy on any team he signs with. I can't find a link to the specific article (beyond NY Post speculation), so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

 

The Flyers have what, 5 guys from 2 years ago. Thats pretty close to being a complete rebuild. Some of the current roster was promoted from the Phantoms but they've essentially rebuilt that team in 2 years. Last year they traded Carter and Richards within days of each other and never looked back. They have one of the best young rosters in the N.H.L. and they compete every night. Their fans never saw what we saw for the first 40 games spread over 2 seasons during their ' rebuild '. I'm not advocating tearing it down like Philly has but it can be done with the right G.M. in place to make those decisions.

[Eleven]

None of whom have elite talent. Kovie does.

 

Missing the point, which is rare for you, weave: The Sabres don't need players who don't play at both ends. There are enough of those already.

[deluca67]

we already have enough guys who do not play both ends of the ice....

Kovy is playing a much better all around game. He is even seeing some time on the PK.

[TrueBlueGED]

The Flyers have what, 5 guys from 2 years ago. Thats pretty close to being a complete rebuild. Some of the current roster was promoted from the Phantoms but they've essentially rebuilt that team in 2 years. Last year they traded Carter and Richards within days of each other and never looked back. They have one of the best young rosters in the N.H.L. and they compete every night. Their fans never saw what we saw for the first 40 games from the Sabres spread over 2 seasons during their ' rebuild '. I'm not advocating tearing it down like Philly has but it can be done with the right G.M. in place to make those decisions.

 

Oh I definitely agree a rebuild like that is possible, and I'm definitely in favor of the Richards/Carter type moves to shake up our core. At the same time, I'm not sure we have the right pieces to make that happen (our malcontents almost certainly aren't fetching the return than Carter and Richards did). I just don't think having a firesale-style rebuild where our goal is to shed about every long term contract and veteran in favor of a bunch of lottery picks is something that's the right approach, and from a personal standpoint I'm simply not interested in watching awful hockey for 4 years on hopes we chose the right guys and had the right lottery luck.

[Eleven]

Kovy is playing a much better all around game. He is even seeing some time on the PK.

 

Thank goodness he's coming around! He would have led the Sabs to a Cup, but we can take solace in the fact that his coach now has enough confidence in him to give him "some time on the PK."

 

What a ###### joke.

[bunomatic]

Oh I definitely agree a rebuild like that is possible, and I'm definitely in favor of the Richards/Carter type moves to shake up our core. At the same time, I'm not sure we have the right pieces to make that happen (our malcontents almost certainly aren't fetching the return than Carter and Richards did). I just don't think having a firesale-style rebuild where our goal is to shed about every long term contract and veteran in favor of a bunch of lottery picks is something that's the right approach, and from a personal standpoint I'm simply not interested in watching awful hockey for 4 years on hopes we chose the right guys and had the right lottery luck.

 

Well that was kind of my point. You don't have to sukc pond bottom for 4 years if done right. Philly traded Richards and Carter when their value was at its peak. Something our G.M. would never do. They got some good return. They turned over the majority of that roster over a 2 year period. Philly has never sukced during their turnover and have remained contenders. Having the right G.M. and surrounding staff in place to make those moves helps. Darcy will likely make a token move at the deadline. Thats it. I consider moving a Stafford or a Roy a token move. He'll get his 2nd round pick or player in his declining years in return like he always does. We likely won't be taken seriously as a contender next year or the next as a result. Just my opinion.

[Eleven]

Well that was kind of my point. You don't have to sukc pond bottom for 4 years if done right. Philly traded Richards and Carter when their value was at its peak. Something our G.M. would never do. They got some good return. They turned over the majority of that roster over a 2 year period. Philly has never sukced during their turnover and have remained contenders. Having the right G.M. and surrounding staff in place to make those moves helps. Darcy will likely make a token move at the deadline. Thats it. I consider moving a Stafford or a Roy a token move. He'll get his 2nd round pick or player in his declining years in return like he always does. We likely won't be taken seriously as a contender next year or the next as a result. Just my opinion.

 

If DR moves Roy for a 2d round pick, he should be fired immediately thereafter. I know this board dislikes him, and I don't necessarily want him in Buffalo next year, but he's worth much more than that. A GM has to get a player--and I mean a regular NHL player--back for Roy.

 

Stafford, OTOH, can go for a pick.

 

They are different players at different positions, and one of them has points, over the years, to show for it.

[TrueBlueGED]

Well that was kind of my point. You don't have to sukc pond bottom for 4 years if done right. Philly traded Richards and Carter when their value was at its peak. Something our G.M. would never do. They got some good return. They turned over the majority of that roster over a 2 year period. Philly has never sukced during their turnover and have remained contenders. Having the right G.M. and surrounding staff in place to make those moves helps. Darcy will likely make a token move at the deadline. Thats it. I consider moving a Stafford or a Roy a token move. He'll get his 2nd round pick or player in his declining years in return like he always does. We likely won't be taken seriously as a contender next year or the next as a result. Just my opinion.

 

I'm just not sure who we could trade that would net us a prospect like Schenn (top-5 prospect in the entire league). The problem is the roster turnover Philly did requires not only the right GM, but the proper existing roster to be able to turn over in that fashion. Plus if the reports are correct, Carter/Richards weren't moved only for hockey reasons, the off-ice chemistry stuff played a significant role--Philly didn't give these guys lifetime contracts only to decide they weren't good enough hockey players. And even then, I'm not certain they make those moves if they weren't freeing up cap space to fix (or so they thought) their goaltending problem with Bryzgalov. I've thought about it a lot and the Philly-style retooling has long been my preferred approach, but I'm beginning to wonder if we've got the right roster in place to make it happen. I also don't think we need to turn over all but a handful of players (I'm not opposed to it, just not convinced it's necessary), I was thinking more along the lines of changing 8ish (some through free agency attrition, some through trades).

 

If DR moves Roy for a 2d round pick, he should be fired immediately thereafter. I know this board dislikes him, and I don't necessarily want him in Buffalo next year, but he's worth much more than that. A GM has to get a player--and I mean a regular NHL player--back for Roy.

 

Stafford, OTOH, can go for a pick.

 

They are different players at different positions, and one of them has points, over the years, to show for it.

 

Roy is definitely worth more than a 2nd, but I'd be happy for an NHL-read top-6 center prospect who just isn't in the NHL yet because of organizational depth as opposed to somebody already in the NHL. And if I'm trading Stafford for only a picks, it should be at least a 1st and 2nd. When you consider what another glorious underachiever got last year (Penner), I don't think it's outrageous.

[Eleven]

I'm just not sure who we could trade that would net us a prospect like Schenn (top-5 prospect in the entire league). The problem is the roster turnover Philly did requires not only the right GM, but the proper existing roster to be able to turn over in that fashion. Plus if the reports are correct, Carter/Richards weren't moved only for hockey reasons, the off-ice chemistry stuff played a significant role--Philly didn't give these guys lifetime contracts only to decide they weren't good enough hockey players. And even then, I'm not certain they make those moves if they weren't freeing up cap space to fix (or so they thought) their goaltending problem with Bryzgalov. I've thought about it a lot and the Philly-style retooling has long been my preferred approach, but I'm beginning to wonder if we've got the right roster in place to make it happen. I also don't think we need to turn over all but a handful of players (I'm not opposed to it, just not convinced it's necessary), I was thinking more along the lines of changing 8ish (some through free agency attrition, some through trades).

 

 

 

Roy is definitely worth more than a 2nd, but I'd be happy for an NHL-read top-6 center prospect who just isn't in the NHL yet because of organizational depth as opposed to somebody already in the NHL. And if I'm trading Stafford for only a picks, it should be at least a 1st and 2nd. When you consider what another glorious underachiever got last year (Penner), I don't think it's outrageous.

 

I'll take less just to get Stafford the hell out of here.

[nfreeman]

None of whom have elite talent. Kovie does.

 

Kovy is playing a much better all around game. He is even seeing some time on the PK.

 

I certainly wouldn't dispute that kovy would be the best forward on the sabres. But that ain't saying much.

 

Again, it's all about the contract. That kind of contract locks you in to kovy being the cornerstone of your team for 7-8 years. I'm not interested in that.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'll take less just to get Stafford the hell out of here.

 

Vancouver is lovely this time of year.

[TheChimp]

Your last "plan" was to bust the bank on Kovy. Would that have made the Sabres a contender today? No.

How do you know?

[Mark T. Pawlowski]

I, as most most fans, am not happy about the way this season has gone: pegula spent a lot of money, and for various reasons, the team is not where I would like them to be. That being said, I am not of the "sell" mentality. We have a good core, and as is always the case, we have top-notch prospects. We need to ride out this season without blowing money at the trade deadline and look for centers in the off season. Championships are not purchased--ask the Yankees--give this front office time, and they will bring one--or more--cups home.

[deluca67]

Thank goodness he's coming around! He would have led the Sabs to a Cup, but we can take solace in the fact that his coach now has enough confidence in him to give him "some time on the PK."

 

What a ###### joke.

The only "joke" is your continuing denial that if the Sabres would have signed Ilya Kovalchuk they would be a better team and far closer to be a Cup contender then they are now.

 

Over the last 82 games the Devils have played they are 49-29-4, that's 16 games over .500 and a 102 point pace. The Sabres over that same stretch are 41-31-10, .500 and a 91 point pace.

 

The Sabres lost a playoff series to the Flyers where they faced possibly the worst goal-tending possible. The Sabres scored 18 goals in the 7 games and at least half were gifts that any average goalie would have stopped. They were held to 2 goals or less four times in the series, you can't tell me that having a premiere goal scorer and the best player in hockey of the last half of the 2010-2011 season wouldn't have made a difference.

 

Vancouver is lovely this time of year.

Screw that, no way do you send him to a contender. Let him rot in Columbus.

 

I, as most most fans, am not happy about the way this season has gone: pegula spent a lot of money, and for various reasons, the team is not where I would like them to be. That being said, I am not of the "sell" mentality. We have a good core, and as is always the case, we have top-notch prospects. We need to ride out this season without blowing money at the trade deadline and look for centers in the off season. Championships are not purchased--ask the Yankees--give this front office time, and they will bring one--or more--cups home.

First of all, welcome.

 

Second, who do you consider part of this "good core?"

 

Third, the Yankees, Red Sox and Marlins have proved that Championships can be purchased in baseball. Hockey is a different beast. Having money in the NHL is more of an enhancement, if you don't have solid hockey people and solid foundation in regards to prospects and producing NHL caliber players then the money is useless and you might as well just light cigars with it.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

I am really getting concerned that thi slate streak will make everyone believe it was just the injuries and no major moves will be made to get rid of some of the core. Not related to buying or selling but Adam needs to be sent back to rochester to get ice time. Lindy has ruined this guys confidence and a few minutes a night on 4th line aint helping him

[LabattBlue]

If DR moves Roy for a 2d round pick, he should be fired immediately thereafter. I know this board dislikes him, and I don't necessarily want him in Buffalo next year, but he's worth much more than that. A GM has to get a player--and I mean a regular NHL player--back for Roy.

I agree. His down year doesn't impact his value that much. He is 28, still under contract at a great number for 1 more year, and has a good point producing resume.

[Weave]

Missing the point, which is rare for you, weave: The Sabres don't need players who don't play at both ends. There are enough of those already.

 

No, I got the point. I would gladly take Kovie over any one of our forwards even given his tendencies away from defence. Even though he is not known for his defensive play (changing for the better) he still makes our team better by virtue of his skill level. We haven't had an elite level forward on our roster since the days of LaFontaine and Mogilny.

 

I usually stay out of the Kovie discussions as I wasn't here for the "Sabres don't need a 50 goal scorer" discussion back then, but given the talent level of our top 6 right now how can you not ackowledge that Kovie would improve this team? And as DeLuca has already said, add Kovie and subtract a couple of our current busts and the cap situation is damned close to even.

[Eleven]

No, I got the point. I would gladly take Kovie over any one of our forwards even given his tendencies away from defence. Even though he is not known for his defensive play (changing for the better) he still makes our team better by virtue of his skill level. We haven't had an elite level forward on our roster since the days of LaFontaine and Mogilny.

 

I usually stay out of the Kovie discussions as I wasn't here for the "Sabres don't need a 50 goal scorer" discussion back then, but given the talent level of our top 6 right now how can you not ackowledge that Kovie would improve this team? And as DeLuca has already said, add Kovie and subtract a couple of our current busts and the cap situation is damned close to even.

 

 

I don't want him because I think he's a floater and always will be a floater, but my point is that he doesn't turn the team into a Cup contender, not that he doesn't improve the team. He isn't "the plan." Subtracting Stafford improves the team with or without Kovy, by the way. I'll leave the Kovy talk aside; you all know my opinion pretty well by now & I know yours, and if someone else wants to get the last word in, please have at it!

 

Back to "buyers or sellers," if this run continues, I don't think they'll buy or sell. I think they'll see how far they can extend the run and make whatever adjustments during the offseason. To me, this is not a sound approach (just as re-signing Stafford after one good season in a contract year wasn't sound), but that's what I think will happen.

[Weave]

IBack to "buyers or sellers," if this run continues, I don't think they'll buy or sell. I think they'll see how far they can extend the run and make whatever adjustments during the offseason. To me, this is not a sound approach (just as re-signing Stafford after one good season in a contract year) wasn't sound), but that's what I think will happen.

 

This I agree with.

[bunomatic]

Just as when people blame Darcys shortcomings on Quinn and T.G. ,Darcy and the rest of the management staff are blaming this years terrible record on injuries. Always an excuse in Buffalo and never accountability. This streak of wins is nice and I'll certainly enjoy it in a season where there's been no joy in being a sabres fan or a fan of good hockey but unfortunately it gives Regier and co. more excuses for this teams shortcomings. Are we 1 or 2 players away from being an eighth place team or are we 1 or 2 players away from being a contender ? Regier would have you believe we are a contender if we only didn't have those dreadful injuries.