Buyers or Sellers?

[spndnchz]

See what you started ZUBRUS! This is why u weren't re-signed.

[TrueBlueGED]

If Kyle Quincey is worth a 1st round pick, I can't possibly sell Leopold fast enough. I like Leopold and think he has a good contract, but seriously, a 1st round pick? Sold.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This is quickly turning into a nightmare. Given Pegula's makeup.....I fear there will be NO selloff whatsoever.

 

A prudent GM would look at the schedule.

 

The Sabres have 8 home games and 14 road games left.

 

The Sabres should be favored in 6 and underdogs in 16.

 

Right now 7th is out of sight and there are 8 teams trying to get #8.

 

Toronto is on pace for 89 points, which is low, but possible.

 

The most I can see the Sabres with is 85/86 points, and they need to go 13-8-1 for that to happen.

 

We are going to blow this again at the deadline in the hopes of a 20-1 shot of even getting in the playoffs.

[deluca67]

This is quickly turning into a nightmare. Given Pegula's makeup.....I fear there will be NO selloff whatsoever.

 

A prudent GM would look at the schedule.

 

The Sabres have 8 home games and 14 road games left.

 

The Sabres should be favored in 6 and underdogs in 16.

 

Right now 7th is out of sight and there are 8 teams trying to get #8.

 

Toronto is on pace for 89 points, which is low, but possible.

 

The most I can see the Sabres with is 85/86 points, and they need to go 13-8-1 for that to happen.

 

We are going to blow this again at the deadline in the hopes of a 20-1 shot of even getting in the playoffs.

The reality of the situation is that it is very unlikely the Sabres would move any player that is not a pending UFA no matter what the Sabres record is or how many points they are out of a playoff spot. Regier is not going to get rid of his "core" guys and Pegula is not interested in forcing Regier's hand. "Hockey Heaven" is nothing more than a Status Quo love-fest. The trade deadline was setting up to be a huge disappointment, a few wins allows Status Quo to excuse their way to doing what they do best, nothing.

[LastPommerFan]

The doctor example is personal. If I listened to my doctors who were more worried about not making a mistake or punting on a decision so they don't get blamed, I would be dead, and they would have covered their butts. Luckily I went to Roswell for a second opinion a week later and the doctor said I'm on the operating table 6am the next morning. The other crew basically said "it could be cancer but keep an eye on it and get another scan in a few months". If I waited that few months, it probably would have reached my lungs and brain as it had already breached containment. Luckily I understood the first crew were being Darcys about it since if they operated and it wasn't cancer, I could have gone through a life altering proceedure for no reason. It was in his professional interest to punt. The guys at Roswell were more worried about ME than a possible malpractice.

 

I am very happy that you were one of the few that got a truly aggressive cutting edge approach rather than an approach more concerned with tort than treatment. But you're pointing out an admitted exception to try and prove your case. It's still a bad example. As it relates to NHL GMs, Sometimes you do get a guy that is willing to take risks. Sometimes that guy is Brian Burke, sometimes you end up with Garth Snow. But in either case it is a rarity.

 

The Sabres under Golisano were always within 10% of the cap and sometime right up against it.

 

10% of the cap is Briere, and one could also point out that the cap and the payroll are very different things, as proven by the Sabres this year.

 

He gave big contracts to his guys -- Miller, Pommer, Hecht, Gaustad and Stafford -- and they collectively delivered a pathetic game 7 run for the bus last year in the playoffs and the most disappointing performance in the NHL this year. There's an ongoing lack of heart and determination that leads to continual failure at key inflection points. It's not good enough. He's accountable. It's time for someone else to take over the construction of this roster.

 

And this gets back to why I want to fire Darcy and offer Yzerman $20M a year to come in a be a GM/Mentor. It's all about heart. Those Detroit teams were wildly talented, for sure, but dynasties are built on talent and drive, not talent alone.

[shrader]

Within 10% of the cap every year, but never committing money to anything more than 2 years into the future (unless their hand was forced). That's the key there.

[nfreeman]

Within 10% of the cap every year, but never committing money to anything more than 2 years into the future (unless their hand was forced). That's the key there.

 

This was the case until the Summer of 2008, when Pommer, Miller, Hecht and Gaustad all got big multi-year deals.

[shrader]

This was the case until the Summer of 2008, when Pommer, Miller, Hecht and Gaustad all got big multi-year deals.

 

And what year have we been talking about in here? 2007, the forcing of the hand.

[Robviously]

See what you started ZUBRUS! This is why u weren't re-signed.

That was the ultimate fight about absolutely nothing. I'm glad it's on the internet where everyone can see it and re-live the magic as often as they want.

 

This was the case until the Summer of 2008, when Pommer, Miller, Hecht and Gaustad all got big multi-year deals.

Did Roy get his 6 year deal in 2007 or was that 2008 as well?

[spndnchz]

 

Did Roy get his 6 year deal in 2007 or was that 2008 as well?

 

Roy's current contract started in 2007-2008 season.

[apuszczalowski]

And this gets back to why I want to fire Darcy and offer Yzerman $20M a year to come in a be a GM/Mentor. It's all about heart. Those Detroit teams were wildly talented, for sure, but dynasties are built on talent and drive, not talent alone.

What has Yzerman done better then DR?

In his 2 years in Tampa, He took a stacked team of forwards (St. louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos) that didn't make the playoffs the year before and picked up an over achieving Roloson to get into the ECF, and now in his second season is back to having an underachieving team that are sellers at the deadline.

[LastPommerFan]

What has Yzerman done better then DR?

In his 2 years in Tampa, He took a stacked team of forwards (St. louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos) that didn't make the playoffs the year before and picked up an over achieving Roloson to get into the ECF, and now in his second season is back to having an underachieving team that are sellers at the deadline.

 

I'm willing to bring him in for what he's done as a player and captain.

 

Also, he just turned Steve Downie into a Prospect and a First Round Pick.

 

I'm counting on his ability to bring a Winning work ethic and Drive to the team. The guy clearly doesn't settle for middle of the road, that's why he's dismantling the lightning.

[apuszczalowski]

I'm willing to bring him in for what he's done as a player and captain.

 

Also, he just turned Steve Downie into a Prospect and a First Round Pick.

 

I'm counting on his ability to bring a Winning work ethic and Drive to the team. The guy clearly doesn't settle for middle of the road, that's why he's dismantling the lightning.

You would give him $20 mil a year to come here because he was a great player and captain? Why not just get Drury to come in and replace DR? He was a great captain here and a leader on the ice.

 

As for the Downie trade, the first round pick is a good deal for them, even though its basically an early second because of where Detroit will probably end up at the end of the season, but the prospect doesn't look like anything special. it was a decent deal, but I would say its something spectacular that most other GM's couldn't pull off also.

 

he isn't really "dismantling" the Lightning, and he is selling because the team is underachieving AGAIN and Roloson hasn't been able to play like last year.

[Robviously]

What has Yzerman done better then DR?

In his 2 years in Tampa, He took a stacked team of forwards (St. louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos) that didn't make the playoffs the year before and picked up an over achieving Roloson to get into the ECF, and now in his second season is back to having an underachieving team that are sellers at the deadline.

So in two years he:

1. Got his team to the Eastern Conference Finals and lost to the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

2. Is doing a tremendous job trading so-so players for high draft picks that he can use (or trade again) to build around Steve Stamkos, a 22 year old superstar.

 

Sounds like he's going a really good job to me.

[LastPommerFan]

You would give him $20 mil a year to come here because he was a great player and captain? Why not just get Drury to come in and replace DR? He was a great captain here and a leader on the ice.

 

As for the Downie trade, the first round pick is a good deal for them, even though its basically an early second because of where Detroit will probably end up at the end of the season, but the prospect doesn't look like anything special. it was a decent deal, but I would say its something spectacular that most other GM's couldn't pull off also.

 

he isn't really "dismantling" the Lightning, and he is selling because the team is underachieving AGAIN and Roloson hasn't been able to play like last year.

 

Are we now including all GMs, or still just DR?

 

What has Yzerman done better then DR?

 

Cause I don't see DR getting a 3-way deal for Goose (a player of comparable value) to get a top 20-30 pick. Maybe he will surprise me.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm willing to bring him in for what he's done as a player and captain.

 

You would give him $20 mil a year to come here because he was a great player and captain? Why not just get Drury to come in and replace DR? He was a great captain here and a leader on the ice.

 

I'm with the fan of the captain on this one. Yzerman is everything that DR is not ... but, he is too old to play and be the Sabres captain ... :P ... too bad.

 

As for Drury, I agree with your points, but he was no Yzerman.

[apuszczalowski]

So in two years he:

1. Got his team to the Eastern Conference Finals and lost to the eventual Stanley Cup winners.

2. Is doing a tremendous job trading so-so players for high draft picks that he can use (or trade again) to build around Steve Stamkos, a 22 year old superstar.

 

Sounds like he's going a really good job to me.

yeah, he did a great job acquiring Stamkos, inheriting the #1 overall pick in the draft, to go along with inheriting guys like Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Victor Hedman.

Its not like he took the Columbus Blue Jackets or Minneosota Wild, or Winnipeg Jets and built them up with limited star players. The Lightning already had loads of talent, they were just missing a few pieces. In his second season in the league as a GM he took the team that was in the ECFs the year before and now they are sellers and not looking like they will make a run at the playoffs.

[LastPommerFan]

You would give him $20 mil a year to come here because he was a great player and captain? Why not just get Drury to come in and replace DR? He was a great captain here and a leader on the ice.

 

Sorry, I missed this part earlier.

 

Yes. Well, i think that might have been an exaggeration, but I've never been a multi-billionaire, so I can't be sure.

 

Yzerman is a unique person, cannot be compared with Drury, or even Messier. This is the former Captain of a Dynasty that grew from mediocre to the premier team in the league while he led. That is incredible, but the clincher for me is that he shows more than just a passing interest in Front Office Activities. He practically begged to be put in line for the GM role in DET, but when Holland was extended, he had to look elsewhere. Supposedly, he has been involved in Front Office activities since the last few years of his playing days.

 

yeah, he did a great job acquiring Stamkos, inheriting the #1 overall pick in the draft, to go along with inheriting guys like Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Victor Hedman.

Its not like he took the Columbus Blue Jackets or Minneosota Wild, or Winnipeg Jets and built them up with limited star players. The Lightning already had loads of talent, they were just missing a few pieces. In his second season in the league as a GM he took the team that was in the ECFs the year before and now they are sellers and not looking like they will make a run at the playoffs.

 

I am convinced he changed the attitude of the organization, from post lock-out dejection and constant high draft picks, to one of a relentless pursuit of winning. THAT is exactly what the Sabres organization needs. I believe he could bring "it".

[Robviously]

yeah, he did a great job acquiring Stamkos, inheriting the #1 overall pick in the draft, to go along with inheriting guys like Lecavalier, St. Louis, and Victor Hedman.

Its not like he took the Columbus Blue Jackets or Minneosota Wild, or Winnipeg Jets and built them up with limited star players. The Lightning already had loads of talent, they were just missing a few pieces. In his second season in the league as a GM he took the team that was in the ECFs the year before and now they are sellers and not looking like they will make a run at the playoffs.

They probably wouldn't be cellar dwellers if they had "loads" of talent. That said, at least he's decisive. You're either trying to win this year or building to win in the future. The most irritating thing in the world is a GM who builds a bad team and then makes trade deadline deals so that that team can make a "run" at the 8th spot in the playoffs.

 

I'm not sure what there is to criticize him about. He inherited a team with some good players, they made a run, but now it's not working so he's clearing guys out so that he can build a contender from scratch.

[apuszczalowski]

Sorry, I missed this part earlier.

 

Yes. Well, i think that might have been an exaggeration, but I've never been a multi-billionaire, so I can't be sure.

 

Yzerman is a unique person, cannot be compared with Drury, or even Messier. This is the former Captain of a Dynasty that grew from mediocre to the premier team in the league while he led. That is incredible, but the clincher for me is that he shows more than just a passing interest in Front Office Activities. He practically begged to be put in line for the GM role in DET, but when Holland was extended, he had to look elsewhere. Supposedly, he has been involved in Front Office activities since the last few years of his playing days.

 

 

 

I am convinced he changed the attitude of the organization, from post lock-out dejection and constant high draft picks, to one of a relentless pursuit of winning. THAT is exactly what the Sabres organization needs. I believe he could bring "it".

I agree that he has been interested in the position for a long time and he didn't just one day decide after retirement that "Hey, i want to be a GM, someone give me a job". But the point I am trying to make is that he hasn't really proved anything yet in the league. Yes he won GM of the year last season for his first season in Tampa, but that same team that was in the ECF is now selling off assests cause they are back to being out of the playoffs. He stepped into a situation where he had alot of top level talent already on the roster that were underachieving as a team.

[LastPommerFan]

I agree that he has been interested in the position for a long time and he didn't just one day decide after retirement that "Hey, i want to be a GM, someone give me a job". But the point I am trying to make is that he hasn't really proved anything yet in the league. Yes he won GM of the year last season for his first season in Tampa, but that same team that was in the ECF is now selling off assests cause they are back to being out of the playoffs. He stepped into a situation where he had alot of top level talent already on the roster that were underachieving as a team.

 

Yes. Glad we agree. I can totally understand wanting a more veteran GM, I just believe Stevie Y is exactly what the Sabres need right now.

 

Edited to add:

 

I mean, they weren't just underachieving, from 2008-2010 they finished 30th, 29th, 25th. Then Steve takes over and they finish 8th and play in the ECF.

 

I want that.

[apuszczalowski]

They probably wouldn't be cellar dwellers if they had "loads" of talent. That said, at least he's decisive. You're either trying to win this year or building to win in the future. The most irritating thing in the world is a GM who builds a bad team and then makes trade deadline deals so that that team can make a "run" at the 8th spot in the playoffs.

 

I'm not sure what there is to criticize him about. He inherited a team with some good players, they made a run, but now it's not working so he's clearing guys out so that he can build a contender from scratch.

So your saying St. Louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos, and Hedman are not very talented players?

 

The playoffs are a whole new game. I would rather see my team atleast make the playoffs every season then go from being in the finals to rebuild. You never know what can happen in the playoffs. This "horrible" Sabres team that everyone wants to fully implode took Philly to 7 games last year. only one team wins teh SC each year, should they become sellers and throw the season every year once they find out there are teams that are better then them and they are not locks for the Cup?

 

Yes. Glad we agree. I can totally understand wanting a more veteran GM, I just believe Stevie Y is exactly what the Sabres need right now.

 

Edited to add:

 

I mean, they weren't just underachieving, from 2008-2010 they finished 30th, 29th, 25th. Then Steve takes over and they finish 8th and play in the ECF.

 

I want that.

Wasn't the year Stevie Y took over also the year they finally got their ownership mess resolved and the new owner took over, clearing up the budget and allowing them to spend again?

 

I wasn't saying that the new GM has to be a "veteran" GM either, my question was just, what has Stevie Y done to make him the guy we absolutly have to have, and thats gonna come into the job and make this team a contender for the cup, based off his limited experience?

[LastPommerFan]

[1]Wasn't the year Stevie Y took over also the year they finally got their ownership mess resolved and the new owner took over, clearing up the budget and allowing them to spend again?

 

[2]I wasn't saying that the new GM has to be a "veteran" GM either, my question was just, what has Stevie Y done to make him the guy we absolutly have to have, and thats gonna come into the job and make this team a contender for the cup, based off his limited experience?

 

[1] Yes, ownership was resolved, but they only spent $4.4M more than in 2009-10 and were $13M below the cap.

 

[2] Obviously as a GM he has limited items we can point to to say, "That's why we need him."

My answer is where his name was written at the end of the 1997, 1998, 2002, and 2008 (as an executive), and my belief that he can bring that attitude to the Sabres.

[Robviously]

So your saying St. Louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos, and Hedman are not very talented players?

Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. St. Louis, Lecavalier, Stamkos, and Hedman are all completely awful hockey players. I'm happy you were able to deduce that from what I wrote. :rolleyes:

 

But, wait, aren't there more than four players on an NHL hockey team? Oh, that's right, there are. So what does the rest of this team look like?

http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/stats/_/name/tb/tampa-bay-lightning

 

This doesn't fit ANYONE'S definition of "loaded with talent." They have a few good players but the rest of the team isn't that special and some of their talent is pretty old (St. Louis). They have a 22 year old superstar to build around and a brand new GM. Rebuilding around that young start is probably the right move, especially with the high picks they're getting for guys.

 

 

 

The playoffs are a whole new game. I would rather see my team atleast make the playoffs every season then go from being in the finals to rebuild. You never know what can happen in the playoffs. This "horrible" Sabres team that everyone wants to fully implode took Philly to 7 games last year. only one team wins teh SC each year, should they become sellers and throw the season every year once they find out there are teams that are better then them and they are not locks for the Cup?

No, the playoffs really aren't a whole new game. Low seeded teams don't win the Cup, even if some make improbable runs to the Finals. The lowest seeded team to ever win was the Devils in 1995 but they still had the 9th best record in hockey (5th seed in the East).

 

Also, you're proud that the "horrible" Sabres took Philly to 7 games last year. Well, that was the first round. Philly won exactly zero games after that and was swept out by Boston in the 2nd round. So basically last year's Sabres were awesome enough to ALMOST win a series against a team that couldn't win a single game in the second round of the playoffs.

 

The playoffs are not a crapshoot. The teams that win the Stanley Cup are always very good teams during the regular season.

[TrueBlueGED]

I touched on this in the deadline thread, but discussing it here is probably the more appropriate place. I know it was mentioned that there is enough dead weight on this team to be sellers and still make a run for the 8 seed. Well, I think Regier just missed a huge opportunity. Vermette was just moved for a 2nd, 5th, and a mediocre-at-best goaltending prospect. Seeing as Kyle Quincey was moved for a 1st, I'd think Leopold could get a similar return. Could have flipped the return on Leopold for Vermette, and brought McNabb back to take Leopold's spot. Does anyone expect McNabb to spend next year in the AHL? I certainly don't, so might as well free up his roster spot now. I think this kind of a move would have made us better right now and for next year, especially if we trade Gaustad or lose him as a UFA. It's the kind of move that can help retool the team in the positive way.

 

Roy (or his replacement) - Ennis - Vermette - Gaustad looks like a significantly better center lineup to me than what we currently have.