Buyers or Sellers?

[JJFIVEOH]

And what can they do that will help us next year? If they trade Gaustad for a draft pick, that might help us in what..... 3 years? They won't get anything groundbreaking in return if they trade for another player. They won't get anything for Boyes. And if they trade Stafford and/or Roy, unless they package them together for a #1 center, we still won't get any immediate help for next year either. A Stafford/Roy trade(s) can be had during the offseason. If the Sabres unload Roy, Stafford, Gaustad and maybe even Miller for draft picks, they aren't doing anything to help next year, or the year after that, or the year after that. There's too much potential (yeah we hear that all the time) to rebuild. Unless these guys can be traded or packaged together for a better player then this team might as well give up for the next couple of years because they'll be rebuilding.

 

Sorry if that's getting off topic.

[Weave]

And what can they do that will help us next year? If they trade Gaustad for a draft pick, that might help us in what..... 3 years? They won't get anything groundbreaking in return if they trade for another player. They won't get anything for Boyes. And if they trade Stafford and/or Roy, unless they package them together for a #1 center, we still won't get any immediate help for next year either. A Stafford/Roy trade(s) can be had during the offseason. If the Sabres unload Roy, Stafford, Gaustad and maybe even Miller for draft picks, they aren't doing anything to help next year, or the year after that, or the year after that. There's too much potential (yeah we hear that all the time) to rebuild. Unless these guys can be traded or packaged together for a better player then this team might as well give up for the next couple of years because they'll be rebuilding.

 

Sorry if that's getting off topic.

 

Well, they'll get cap space for new players AND they'll get assets that can be moved for players. Picks don't have to be players we don't see for 3 years. Picks are valuable assets that can be moved and packaged for immediate help next season. I'll go even further and propose that as assets go, picks are even more liquid than players under contract and are therefore more desirable assets for a team looking to retool.

 

A Stafford/Roy trade(s) can be had during the offseason.

 

Do you know for a fact that a trade involving them can happen in the offseason? Finding the right partner AT THE RIGHT TIME is all part of the deal. If the right deal is available now why wait until offseason and risk that the deal is no longer there? I'm not suggested that they get moved for whatever deal is available but if a fair market return can be had you make the move now.

[CallawaySabres]

Does ANYBODY want 8th spot? Oh my God did the Caps look like the worst team in the league or what. The good thing is that teams like the Caps are going to implode more than the Sabres once July hits. Dump our guys now AND July and let's get a jump on the 2012 season already. Trades will be made so let's just hope there is a new GM to make them....

[TrueBlueGED]

Well, they'll get cap space for new players AND they'll get assets that can be moved for players. Picks don't have to be players we don't see for 3 years. Picks are valuable assets that can be moved and packaged for immediate help next season. I'll go even further and propose that as assets go, picks are even more liquid than players under contract and are therefore more desirable assets for a team looking to retool.

 

What he said. And cap space in and of itself is an asset. Aside from Regier himself, one of the biggest problems the Sabres have right now in making trades is it has to be money in money out. Being up against the cap is not a good way to operate. Sure we have money coming off the books, but we also have Myers' extension kicking in and RFAs to resign (I'm lookin at you Ennis) and roster holes to fill. When all is said and done, without shedding some salary, we'll be in no better shape next year. And that doesn't even count what can happen in the new CBA. What if the players share of revenue actually drops to 50%? What if actual rules get put into place to prevent long contracts easing cap hits? I think financial flexibility is very important going into the unknown.

[JJFIVEOH]

Well, they'll get cap space for new players AND they'll get assets that can be moved for players. Picks don't have to be players we don't see for 3 years. Picks are valuable assets that can be moved and packaged for immediate help next season. I'll go even further and propose that as assets go, picks are even more liquid than players under contract and are therefore more desirable assets for a team looking to retool.

 

 

 

Do you know for a fact that a trade involving them can happen in the offseason? Finding the right partner AT THE RIGHT TIME is all part of the deal. If the right deal is available now why wait until offseason and risk that the deal is no longer there? I'm not suggested that they get moved for whatever deal is available but if a fair market return can be had you make the move now.

 

Of course picks don't have to be players (picks) that will help in 3 years. And I said I wouldn't mind a trade if we got something in return such as a #1 center for a package deal. I think there could be and will be deals to be made during the offseason. If anything probably at a better price. If we want to package together a couple players for a #1, the other team will think we're desperate and will ask an arm and a leg. I see this as going two ways. Either we trade and get cap space which means either prospects and/or draft picks in return, or we trade and get a proven star for a package deal; in that case it wouldn't help much with the cap space because most likely he'll come with a big contract. Like I said, I wouldn't mind a big trade if it can help immediately AND in the future, but if we're trading for picks it gives the impression we're rebuilding so why not dump them all. If we use the picks as bait for a deal during the offseason then we've lost immedaite help for a playoff run and that's where the topic gets touchy. I don't think cap space is an issue that can't easily be dealt with for next year. The cap will go up a few million and we have $10 mil coming off the books. Throw in 3 players who have been rumored Miller, Roy and Stafford and that's another $14 mil. Add in the extra $4 mil hit for Myers and it's approx $24 mil to work with. Even if we kept Roy Stafford and Miller that's still $10 mil.

[Weave]

Of course picks don't have to be players (picks) that will help in 3 years. And I said I wouldn't mind a trade if we got something in return such as a #1 center for a package deal. I think there could be and will be deals to be made during the offseason. If anything probably at a better price. If we want to package together a couple players for a #1, the other team will think we're desperate and will ask an arm and a leg. I see this as going two ways. Either we trade and get cap space which means either prospects and/or draft picks in return, or we trade and get a proven star for a package deal; in that case it wouldn't help much with the cap space because most likely he'll come with a big contract. Like I said, I wouldn't mind a big trade if it can help immediately AND in the future, but if we're trading for picks it gives the impression we're rebuilding so why not dump them all. If we use the picks as bait for a deal during the offseason then we've lost immedaite help for a playoff run and that's where the topic gets touchy. I don't think cap space is an issue that can't easily be dealt with for next year. The cap will go up a few million and we have $10 mil coming off the books. Throw in 3 players who have been rumored Miller, Roy and Stafford and that's another $14 mil. Add in the extra $4 mil hit for Myers and it's approx $24 mil to work with. Even if we kept Roy Stafford and Miller that's still $10 mil.

 

As it stands today we have about $8M to spend next year and 5 roster spots to fill. You absolutely have to move a couple good sized salaries other than the ones scheduled to come off the books if you want to obtain a high level player. You mention Roy, Miller, and Stafford (I have not seen Stafford mentioned in any rumors). Yes, they are probably easier to move in the offseason but there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll find a trading partner in the offseason. And neither you nor I have any idea whether the return for them would be better now or in July so it is pointless for us to use that as a criteria for timing. Having said that, if they are not part of your plan moving forward it makes the most sense to move them when a fair deal comes available, regardless of timing, otherwise you may lose your chance and you are stuck with them and their cap hit next year.

 

It sounds to me like your hangup is the idea that a playoff run this season is in jeopardy if we move these guys for picks/prospects. As much as I would be entertained by a playoff run I think it is ill advised and would set back a retooling plan that was already set back once last year. And we now have this abomination of a season to show for it.

 

Heh. I think I replied in the middle of a move. Might as well move this post too.

[TrueBlueGED]

Of course picks don't have to be players (picks) that will help in 3 years. And I said I wouldn't mind a trade if we got something in return such as a #1 center for a package deal. I think there could be and will be deals to be made during the offseason. If anything probably at a better price. If we want to package together a couple players for a #1, the other team will think we're desperate and will ask an arm and a leg. I see this as going two ways. Either we trade and get cap space which means either prospects and/or draft picks in return, or we trade and get a proven star for a package deal; in that case it wouldn't help much with the cap space because most likely he'll come with a big contract. Like I said, I wouldn't mind a big trade if it can help immediately AND in the future, but if we're trading for picks it gives the impression we're rebuilding so why not dump them all. If we use the picks as bait for a deal during the offseason then we've lost immedaite help for a playoff run and that's where the topic gets touchy. I don't think cap space is an issue that can't easily be dealt with for next year. The cap will go up a few million and we have $10 mil coming off the books. Throw in 3 players who have been rumored Miller, Roy and Stafford and that's another $14 mil. Add in the extra $4 mil hit for Myers and it's approx $24 mil to work with. Even if we kept Roy Stafford and Miller that's still $10 mil.

 

First of all, if we offloaded Miller, Roy and Stafford without taking any money back I'd absolutely crap myself. Then I'd eat it. No way that happens.

 

More importantly, we don't know what is going to happen with the cap. If reports are true and the owners are going to push for players' share of revenue dropping to 50%, even if the cap goes up, that reduction will essentially leave it where it's at this year. Total of 12.1 is coming off the books, tack on Myers' extension of +4.2 over his current deal, and you're at $7.9 million of space with 9 forwards, 6 D, and 2 goalies under contract. I'm going to assume they're going to want to lock up Ennis for more than the standard raise for a year. Let's assume he gets a Stafford-esque second contract, 2 years 4 million. Let's also assume McNabb makes the roster out of camp next year, that's +900k, and if they resign Kaleta that's another 900k or so. At this point we're down to 4.1 million in space with 2 forwards to sign. Basically we're completely unable to get into the bidding for any quality free agents, and we come back next season with essentially the same team. Is that attractive?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I still say sell whatever you can for whatever you can get.

 

I also maintain that I would not anticipate a rebuild at this point, if for no other reason than the trade / signings last summer. Seems to me that the first steps were taken then. I see (hope) the Sabres unload malcontents for whatever they can get and with expiring contracts look to add some key pieces.

 

Pegula said three years for a real run at the cup. While this year is a disaster on the ice it may not be a real set back to the stated plan. My belief is that DR and LR will not be able to pull it off. I still say we need some different players, but also a new GM and coach.

[Weave]

I still say sell whatever you can for whatever you can get.

 

I also maintain that I would not anticipate a rebuild at this point, if for no other reason than the trade / signings last summer. Seems to me that the first steps were taken then. I see (hope) the Sabres unload malcontents for whatever they can get and with expiring contracts look to add some key pieces.

 

Pegula said three years for a real run at the cup. While this year is a disaster on the ice it may not be a real set back to the stated plan. My belief is that DR and LR will not be able to pull it off. I still say we need some different players, but also a new GM and coach.

 

If I remember correctly what he said was, we will win a cup within 3 years. Big difference.

[2ForTripping]

Darcy has 6 days to better the team by using the pieces at his disposal. Will he make any progress? Time will tell. Sell

[Who Else?]

There is enough dead weight on this team to both sell and hope for a chance at the playoffs.

[Eleven]

There is enough dead weight on this team to both sell and hope for a chance at the playoffs.

'

 

This is a fair point.

[TrueBlueGED]

In response to a ranting Sabres fan, Pierre LeBrun responds:

 

My take: Let’s wait and see how this trade deadline plays out before we judge the GM. From what I’m being told by other team executives around the league, Regier has been quite busy on the phone over the past few weeks. The sense I get is that he’s willing to shake up this team in an important way. Let’s revisit this next week. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/14836/rant-answers-ranger-fans-want-to-stand-pat

 

Trying to remain hopeful here that he doesn't follow the fool's gold of a long-shot run for the 8 seed.

[TheMadCap]

There is enough dead weight on this team to both sell and hope for a chance at the playoffs.

 

I don't think I can agree more with anything I've seen posted lately! :thumbsup:

[Robviously]

In response to a ranting Sabres fan, Pierre LeBrun responds: My take: Let’s wait and see how this trade deadline plays out before we judge the GM. From what I’m being told by other team executives around the league, Regier has been quite busy on the phone over the past few weeks. The sense I get is that he’s willing to shake up this team in an important way. Let’s revisit this next week. http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/14836/rant-answers-ranger-fans-want-to-stand-pat Trying to remain hopeful here that he doesn't follow the fool's gold of a long-shot run for the 8 seed.

"Wait and see" would be feel a lot more realistic if Regier didn't already have 15 years to do whatever it is he's been trying to do.

[Koomkie]

In response to a ranting Sabres fan, Pierre LeBrun responds:

 

My take: Let’s wait and see how this trade deadline plays out before we judge the GM. From what I’m being told by other team executives around the league, Regier has been quite busy on the phone over the past few weeks. The sense I get is that he’s willing to shake up this team in an important way. Let’s revisit this next week. http://espn.go.com/b...nt-to-stand-pat

 

Trying to remain hopeful here that he doesn't follow the fool's gold of a long-shot run for the 8 seed.

 

let us.

[TrueBlueGED]

"Wait and see" would be feel a lot more realistic if Regier didn't already have 15 years to do whatever it is he's been trying to do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm expecting the worst. But I'm trying to hope for....well I can't hope for the best given his history, but I'm hoping for something.

[apuszczalowski]

In response to a ranting Sabres fan, Pierre LeBrun responds:

 

My take: Let’s wait and see how this trade deadline plays out before we judge the GM. From what I’m being told by other team executives around the league, Regier has been quite busy on the phone over the past few weeks. The sense I get is that he’s willing to shake up this team in an important way. Let’s revisit this next week. http://espn.go.com/b...nt-to-stand-pat

 

Trying to remain hopeful here that he doesn't follow the fool's gold of a long-shot run for the 8 seed.

Note to Pierre, Just because he is busy on the phones, it doesn't mean anything. I bet every year, every GM at this time is "Busy on the phones", making and taking calls. DR has said before in the past that he has had many conversations with different GMs around the league at this time with deals and offers, but didn't pull the trigger because the asking prices were high, or the deals just weren't there that they wanted

[LTS]

In response to a ranting Sabres fan, Pierre LeBrun responds:

 

My take: Let’s wait and see how this trade deadline plays out before we judge the GM. From what I’m being told by other team executives around the league, Regier has been quite busy on the phone over the past few weeks. The sense I get is that he’s willing to shake up this team in an important way. Let’s revisit this next week. http://espn.go.com/b...nt-to-stand-pat

 

Trying to remain hopeful here that he doesn't follow the fool's gold of a long-shot run for the 8 seed.

 

Exactly what I've been saying. The best bet is to hope for another great showing from Roy, etc. tonight and a win. The games this weekend should finally drive it home. If by some miracle they did win both games this weekend then I'd be a bit more concerned. Still, a good showing tonight opens the door for a move before this weekend when values might be slightly higher.

 

"Wait and see" would be feel a lot more realistic if Regier didn't already have 15 years to do whatever it is he's been trying to do.

 

You just cannot ignore the change in ownership. You want to, but you can't. Let the day occur and then pass judgment. It's 1 week.. you can do it.

[Robviously]

You just cannot ignore the change in ownership. You want to, but you can't. Let the day occur and then pass judgment. It's 1 week.. you can do it.

I'm not ignoring the change in ownership; I'm factoring it in. The guy got a blank check from Pegula and, instead of making real changes to the roster, he just spent a bunch of money and put us in a bad position with the salary cap.

 

We signed Leino to be a center and I think he gave up on it after 2 weeks. Only six more years left on that contract.

 

We could have traded Drew Stafford last summer when his value was at an all-time high, and maybe picked up a center. Instead, we re-signed him to a big contract and how he's going to be tough to move as well.

 

Darcy Regier's last bold move was trading for Chris Drury....NINE years ago. His brilliant move to put us over the top when we were trying to win the Cup in 2007 was acquiring Dainius Zubrus. This is the guy you're trusting to make the right moves now?

 

I don't care how many billions of dollars Terry Pegula has. None of that money can change what is wrong with Darcy Regier.

[apuszczalowski]

I'm not ignoring the change in ownership; I'm factoring it in. The guy got a blank check from Pegula and, instead of making real changes to the roster, he just spent a bunch of money and put us in a bad position with the salary cap.

 

We signed Leino to be a center and I think he gave up on it after 2 weeks. Only six more years left on that contract.

 

We could have traded Drew Stafford last summer when his value was at an all-time high, and maybe picked up a center. Instead, we re-signed him to a big contract and how he's going to be tough to move as well.

 

Darcy Regier's last bold move was trading for Chris Drury....NINE years ago. His brilliant move to put us over the top when we were trying to win the Cup in 2007 was acquiring Dainius Zubrus. This is the guy you're trusting to make the right moves now?

 

I don't care how many billions of dollars Terry Pegula has. None of that money can change what is wrong with Darcy Regier.

But, But, But, He was shackled by previous ownership and was not able to spread his wings as a genius GM and soar! And it was obviously all Lindys fault that he couldn't turn Zubrus into another Diamond, along with Bernier, Moore, Boyes, etc.....

[Robviously]

But, But, But, He was shackled by previous ownership and was not able to spread his wings as a genius GM and soar! And it was obviously all Lindys fault that he couldn't turn Zubrus into another Diamond, along with Bernier, Moore, Boyes, etc.....

Yeah, is this a bad time to bring up that the last time the Sabres were obvious "sellers" we ended up trading Brian Campbell for Steve Bernier? How did that work out? Killer trade.

 

Actually, we should have been sellers the next year as well with Connolly. Instead, we doubled down and gave him a contract extension at the deadline. Had we traded him for a pick or prospect at the deadline, we'd have a player who would be helping us right now, in 2012. Oops!

 

It would be fun to go through the last 10 years and try to figure out what Darcy's actual plan was (or plans were) for winning the Stanley Cup. We're never quite rebuilding and we're never actually going for it. The team just sort of muddles along and obvious needs are never addressed.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Yeah, is this a bad time to bring up that the last time the Sabres were obvious "sellers" we ended up trading Brian Campbell for Steve Bernier? How did that work out? Killer trade.

 

Actually, we should have been sellers the next year as well with Connolly. Instead, we doubled down and gave him a contract extension at the deadline. Had we traded him for a pick or prospect at the deadline, we'd have a player who would be helping us right now, in 2012. Oops!

 

It would be fun to go through the last 10 years and try to figure out what Darcy's actual plan was (or plans were) for winning the Stanley Cup. We're never quite rebuilding and we're never actually going for it. The team just sort of muddles along and obvious needs are never addressed.

 

I can't remember if he brought in anyone for the '06 playoffs. If he did, it certainly wasn't depth on defense.

[nfreeman]

Yeah, is this a bad time to bring up that the last time the Sabres were obvious "sellers" we ended up trading Brian Campbell for Steve Bernier? How did that work out? Killer trade.

 

Well, there are quite a few mistakes in this proposition. They also got draft picks in the Soupy trade that turned into Ennis and Rivet. And they weren't "sellers" in the sense that they are this year -- i.e. not because the team was obviously going to miss the playoffs. They were "sellers" solely with respect to Soupy because he was a pending UFA.

 

Most importantly, the fact that they traded Soupy was almost certainly due to TG/LQ incompetence, not DR's decisions.

[Weave]

I can't remember if he brought in anyone for the '06 playoffs. If he did, it certainly wasn't depth on defense.

 

Wasn't Jillson brought in at the deadline for defensive dpeth?