Buyers or Sellers?

[nfreeman]

Hamilton had a funny way of putting the Regehr rumor this morning. The Sabres would bring back Satan and Hasek before they trade Regehr.

 

I'm convinced that Gaustad, Leopold, Roy, are traded. Hamilton brought up a point on burying Boyes in Rochester to free up cap space short term. If someone claims him fine, otherwise he's off the books and finishes in Rochester. I could see that happening. I could also see Sekera going. If someone wants Stafford I am sure they would unload him as well. I don't see anyone taking a flyer on Hecht, assuming he gets back on the ice before the deadline. The rumor mill says the Hawks might be interested in Roy and they are looking for defense. I suppose Leopold and Roy could give them something, not exactly rentals though.

 

Past that I think it's status quo until the summer.

 

I think Hamilton is right, although I will say that the local media never seems to have any advance knowledge of moves the Sabres make.

 

I think/hope you're right about Gaustad, Leopold and Roy. I wouldn't be unhappy if they extended Gaustad, but only at the same or lesser salary. I too doubt that there will be a taker for Stafford. I also would like to unload Pommer but I doubt the Sabres will do so.

[shrader]

Fan's heads would explode if Myers or Miller would be moved.

 

You know, I wouldn't go that far. If they were moved it would obviously be some sort of blockbuster. Fans might actually like the return and not have their heads explode.

[apuszczalowski]

You know the Sabres are now going to sign him this off-season. :doh:

They are going to wait til the offseason? But they might lose out on bidding for him!!! Darcy needs to trade for him now, a 2nd should be enough to get him here so he can be signed to an extension, and we can all hear how he's the kind of player that just needs a change of scenery, then blame Ruff and his system for holding him back.

 

You know, I wouldn't go that far. If they were moved it would obviously be some sort of blockbuster. Fans might actually like the return and not have their heads explode.

Thats a little inaccurate, Fans heads will explode no matter what the return is because its never enough. I wouldn't be surprised if fans heads explode after seeing what teams might give up to get Roy or Stafford, and yet they could have gotten more for 2 players we all want to see run out of town for a bag of pucks (Complaint might be that they aren't the correct brand of pucks, or the bag wasn't of the highest quality)

[Who Else?]

You are all missing the silver lining here. There is now signs from credible and uncredible that Darcy might be ###### something.

[spndnchz]

Has there been any talk about if/how much the cap will go up for next year?

 

Just IMO, I think a combo of things will happen. The cap will go up by a few million and with the new CBA we'll have a rollback of salaries. Just my opinion.

[qwksndmonster]

Back to the thread topic: that loss on Saturday should serve as a cold splash of reality to anyone that had gotten hypnotized by the recent stretch of good play. This team is still mentally weak. For a team that needs every single GD point it can muster, to come out at home against a lousy team and mail it in for 2 periods is completely unacceptable.

 

At the deadline: sell, sell, sell.

Yep.

[Samson's Flow]

There's some pretty consistent names coming up as players that can and should be moved. The Gaustad, Boyes, Roy, Leopold names are all good and should be moved IMO. If we can find a decent buyer for Stafford that would be good too. There seems to be a pretty solid consensus from the board as to what should be done.

 

The problem is I expect that all those players are far too many moves for Darcy to pull off at the deadline. Given his history, I would guess one, maybe two, of them are moved. So given that, which one is most important to move? My vote is Roy to Chicago...

[fan2456]

The fact Sully might be banned from the media room is of no substance to me. TBN has enough guys in there reporting for their paper. Sully writes about football and basketball. He bitch's (filter avoider) about hockey.

 

For sure on his hockey knowledge. He admits to rarely watching it. Plus he's a columnist and opinion writer..

[Taro T]

Just IMO, I think a combo of things will happen. The cap will go up by a few million and with the new CBA we'll have a rollback of salaries. Just my opinion.

Are you adding additional players to each team or are you moving away from a hard cap?

 

There is no way to rollback salaries and have a hard cap increase by a few $MM / team. On paper the salaries could be reduced, but if the players continue to get 57% of leaguewide revenues after all the beans have been counted, then salaries are identical (neglecting the small increase in leaguewide revenues due to inflation).

 

My guess is that when all is said and done, there is a SLIGHT rollback in player share of the pie (probably to 52-54%). If the Brian Burke's of the league get their way and the cap isn't firmly set (either by allowing for teams to trade cap space - a horrible idea; or by allowing for 'buyouts' to not count against the cap - merely a bad idea), then that 52-54% realistically will still be 57% as monies currently counting against the 57% wouldn't count against the lowered %age. So, in that situation on paper it would appear that the 'owners stuck it to the players again' but it would be just like '92 or '95 all over again where the owners wouldn't even realize they'd been bent over the barrel until they woke up a year or 2 later with a strange burning sensation in their loins.

 

My hope, though not my expectation, is that they keep a firm salary cap with greater revenue sharing between teams. Keep everyone having a stake in putting a better product on the ice and you might actually get that. I wouldn't be surprised to see FA come a year earlier and also would expect there to be either liberalized walkaway rights from arbitration or an alteration of the allowability of contracts signed w/in 2-4 weeks of an arbitration hearing or maybe both.

[LabattBlue]

1. Hamilton on GR this morning completely dispelled the Regehr rumor, and I do trust him.

Hamilton also claims that the Sabres have been trying to unsuccessfully trade Roy for a year now? Do you believe that?

[Who Else?]

Hamilton also claims that the Sabres have been trying to unsuccessfully trade Roy for a year now? Do you believe that?

 

It's believable if they are asking to much in return. We know Darcy over values Roy.

 

 

Malkin alone probably isn't good enough, Pittsburgh may not be willing to give up a sixth round pick.

[LTS]

Hamilton also claims that the Sabres have been trying to unsuccessfully trade Roy for a year now? Do you believe that?

 

Yes... I think once he went out and the Sabres played just fine without him they realized they did not need him. That wasn't 4 weeks without him it was over half a season so it tells you that you can live without the guy.

[beerme1]

Clinging to your position on Kovy is disturbingly reminiscent of the positions you've clung to on Roy and Briere -- all of which can fairly be described as detached from reality.

 

Just posting a thought here, do you know that by game three of the playoffs this year Danny Briere will have scored as many goals in the playoffs since he left as the ENTIRE Sabres team? interesting and damning stat.

Not trying to relive the past but it contributes to the fact that Darcy needs to get the hell out of here.

[rickshaw]

Yes, the Sabres should be sellers.

 

Goose, Roy and Hecht can all go and hopefully do go. I don't care what they get in return. If it's picks, then so be it. The Sabres at least have a good record in drafting good, young talent.

 

Myers will not be traded and shouldn't even be considered. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you give up on young dmen with the skill set and size that Myers has too early, you will be sorry later when he's picking up the Norris trophy. It can be thrown around on sites like this, but I can say with 99% accuracy that the Sabres haven't thought about it once.

 

Boyes - see ya. Minors fine with me.

Leopold - good player but if they can get something for the future, move him.

Stafford- he's an every other year guy so........ not sure on this. Maybe next year move him at the deadline.

Miller- finally playing to potential but if you can move that salary, I would. The NHL has proven that a good, solid $3-4 million guy behind a good team can win the Cup.

[apuszczalowski]

Yes, the Sabres should be sellers.

 

Goose, Roy and Hecht can all go and hopefully do go. I don't care what they get in return. If it's picks, then so be it. The Sabres at least have a good record in drafting good, young talent.

 

Myers will not be traded and shouldn't even be considered. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you give up on young dmen with the skill set and size that Myers has too early, you will be sorry later when he's picking up the Norris trophy. It can be thrown around on sites like this, but I can say with 99% accuracy that the Sabres haven't thought about it once.

 

Boyes - see ya. Minors fine with me.

Leopold - good player but if they can get something for the future, move him.

Stafford- he's an every other year guy so........ not sure on this. Maybe next year move him at the deadline.

Miller- finally playing to potential but if you can move that salary, I would. The NHL has proven that a good, solid $3-4 million guy behind a good team can win the Cup.

Yup, guys like Roy, Stafford, Goose, Miller, all guys drafted by the Sabres, and all guys fans want run out of town for more picks

[rickshaw]

Yup, guys like Roy, Stafford, Goose, Miller, all guys drafted by the Sabres, and all guys fans want run out of town for more picks

 

But all these players have had a lot of time to prove their worth and possibly their time is up with this team. I was referring to the Myers', Ennis', Kassian's, Foligno's, Enroth's, to name a few, as good quality young picks they've drafted.

 

Giving up on young talent too soon is a mistake. I wouldn't classify the 4 names you quoted as being given up on too soon.

[TrueBlueGED]

DeLuca is right that the Sabres have a limited amount of assets that they would both be willing to move, and which would fetch a very good immediate return. Selling off our pending UFAs simply gives us more picks to play with come draft time (whether that's to stock the system or make trades), and is of course a natural thing to do. Of guys that can be moved to create cap space, I don't think Leino gets moved (untradeable contract), Regehr (unless he requested a trade, I don't see the Sabres moving him), Myers (just no), Pominville (pretty sure Lindy would throw Regier under the bus if he moved Pommer), Vanek (can't imagine them getting a return to justify this and still win in the near future), Miller (no movement clause, plus teams in contention probably don't have the space for his salary).

 

To me, there's 4 realistic options to move to free cap space and help retool the roster (contract money and years after this season): Leopold (3 mil, 1 year), Sekera (2.75, 3 years), Stafford (4, 3 years), Roy (4, 1 year).

 

Leopold I think should be moved to make space and open an obvious roster spot for McNabb. It's a good contract for a 4-5 defenseman who can add offense, can probably net a couple mid rounders (2 and 4/5), or a mid level prospect and a mid round pick. I think the Rangers would be a great fit...they don't necessarily need a top 4 guy, but he could help their anemic PP a lot and would be great on the 3rd pairing for reasonable money.

 

Sekera is very moveable, although I wouldn't be in any hurry to send him packing. He may never have the offensive production we're hoping for, but he's pretty consistent and has a really nice contract and I see no real reason to move him out unless they want to make a roster spot for Brennan next year, who can do a lot of the same things as Sekera at a lower price point. I'm sure plenty of teams would be interested in a 2nd pairing guy for his contract amount.

 

Roy is our most valuable trade asset (who is realistically somebody the Sabres would trade) in my opinion. As others have said, 1 down year (especially on THIS team) does not destroy the value of a consistent 60-65 point center at 4 million with 1 year left. Any contender looking for a #2 center has to be interested. Especially if their roster would allow him to be in a purely scoring role, without the defensive/PK responsibilities he struggles with. Chicago could use him to keep Sharp on the wing and Bolland in his natural 3rd line role. Detroit could use him to fill the #2 spot and put Zetterberg back on Datsyuk's wing. Possible returns include Pirri, McNeill or Kruger + pick (depending on value of each prospect by the teams), or Sheehan (if Detroit is willing to move him...not sure on their other center prospects).

 

Stafford's value is obviously hamstrung by his contract, given that his 2 best seasons have come in contract years. However, I still think he nets more than a 4th rounder. Penner netted a bigger return than his level of play would indicate he should, as teams do some silly things at the deadline. I don't expect a 1st, top prospect, and mid-round pick for Stafford, but a 1st alone or a top-6 prospect I don't think are unrealistic. I'd probably move him for a 2nd+3rd just to be rid of his contract.

 

Lastly, I think we have to at least discuss what value Enroth would have. Now I think it would be a big mistake to get rid of him given we have JACK in our system for potential starters post-Miller. But with his level of play and contract, he'd have to have a good deal of value to a contender in need of goaltending help. Of the young goaltenders in the league who might get moved, Bernier and Schneider almost certainly have more value...but surely Enroth is right behind them, right? He might be our most valuable piece to move to the right team. Again I think it would be a mistake, but it's worth thinking about.

 

On the CBA: if the owners try and get some kind of salary relief/reduction, I'd much rather have an amnesty clause than a salary rollback. Bye bye Leino contract! (I don't hate Leino and think he'll be alright, but if I had a chance to get rid of that contract without cap repercussions, I do it instantly)

[apuszczalowski]

Lastly, I think we have to at least discuss what value Enroth would have. Now I think it would be a big mistake to get rid of him given we have JACK in our system for potential starters post-Miller. But with his level of play and contract, he'd have to have a good deal of value to a contender in need of goaltending help. Of the young goaltenders in the league who might get moved, Bernier and Schneider almost certainly have more value...but surely Enroth is right behind them, right? He might be our most valuable piece to move to the right team. Again I think it would be a mistake, but it's worth thinking about.

 

On the CBA: if the owners try and get some kind of salary relief/reduction, I'd much rather have an amnesty clause than a salary rollback. Bye bye Leino contract! (I don't hate Leino and think he'll be alright, but if I had a chance to get rid of that contract without cap repercussions, I do it instantly)

I don't think that outside of Buffalo, many view Enroth as having a high value right now and someone teams would be interested in trading for. Thats not saying he hasn't been good or won't be good, just that I don't think he is as well known around the league as someone teams would be trying to make a deal for to shore up their goaltending. He doesn't even have a years worth of experience in the league starting games.

 

But all these players have had a lot of time to prove their worth and possibly their time is up with this team. I was referring to the Myers', Ennis', Kassian's, Foligno's, Enroth's, to name a few, as good quality young picks they've drafted.

 

Giving up on young talent too soon is a mistake. I wouldn't classify the 4 names you quoted as being given up on too soon.

My point is, at one time, we thought of those guys as highly and in the same way as Myers, Ennis, Kassian, Foligno and Enroth. We all thought that guys like Roy and Stafford would be cornerstones of this team, that gaustad would be a physical force along with Kaleta. Now they are all guys being run out of town for poor play.

[nfreeman]

I don't think that outside of Buffalo, many view Enroth as having a high value right now and someone teams would be interested in trading for. Thats not saying he hasn't been good or won't be good, just that I don't think he is as well known around the league as someone teams would be trying to make a deal for to shore up their goaltending. He doesn't even have a years worth of experience in the league starting games.

 

I agree. The Sabres wouldn't get enough back for Enroth to justify trading him.

[deluca67]

I agree. The Sabres wouldn't get enough back for Enroth to justify trading him.

What about a Enroth/Schneider goalie rotation?

[Robviously]

Yup, guys like Roy, Stafford, Goose, Miller, all guys drafted by the Sabres, and all guys fans want run out of town for more picks

By this logic, we should trade all of our draft picks because we don't like the guys we've drafted.

 

Or you could look at the players we've traded for over the past few years and compare them to who we've drafted. That comparison would move you to never ask Darcy to trade for an NHL player again.

 

The Sabres need to get better at both areas. At least with the draft, they've given us some reason to believe over the past few years.

[qwksndmonster]

What about a Enroth/Schneider goalie rotation?

How would we get Schneider? That seems really farfetched.

[deluca67]

How would we get Schneider? That seems really farfetched.

He's a RFA and the Canucks have $9 mil in cap space and only 16 players under contract for next season.

[qwksndmonster]

He's a RFA and the Canucks have $9 mil in cap space and only 16 players under contract for next season.

The Canucks don't really have any significant contracts coming off the books next year, and they have only ~.8 mil in cap space right now.

 

- F Mason Raymond 2.5 mil RFA

- Forwards Bitz (UFA), Volpatti (UFA), Weise (RFA), Duco (RFA), and Ebbet (UFA) are all coming off the books with under .7 mil cap hits.

- Defensemen Salo (UFA), Rome (UFA), and Sulzer (UFA) are coming off the books at 3.5 mil total.

 

Who would we trade to get Schneider, and who would we trade Miller to?

[deluca67]

The Canucks don't really have any significant contracts coming off the books next year, and they have only ~.8 mil in cap space right now.

 

- F Mason Raymond 2.5 mil RFA

- Forwards Bitz (UFA), Volpatti (UFA), Weise (RFA), Duco (RFA), and Ebbet (UFA) are all coming off the books with under .7 mil cap hits.

- Defensemen Salo (UFA), Rome (UFA), and Sulzer (UFA) are coming off the books at 3.5 mil total.

 

Who would we trade to get Schneider, and who would we trade Miller to?

Not sure what the Canucks would be looking for. I would expect it to cost far more than a Gaustad type rent-a-player. He is 25 and has shown really well in the games he has started. This move would be a major swing in the direction of the franchise. Miller? This is an off-season move, best to take advantage of some team that felt goal-tending cost them in the playoffs.