Regier Looking to Deal: LeBrun

[Patty16]

What do Detroit and New England have in common, besides great coaching? They have a system in place that every player buys into. I'm fairly certain that they can make most players look better than they are because of the systems. Look at players who leave those systems and tell me which of them continue to play as well? So, I look at the concept of Detroit bringing in Roy and I think.. I bet they can make him better. He was a point per game player with the Sabres.. I think they would be able to get that out of him... hell they could do it with Stafford too.

 

Look at the lineage in Detroit and you can see how they maintain their status. Go back to Yzerman... then Lidstrom, then you pull in guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk and you continue the roll. The question is though.. who do they have that will continue that? I'm real curious to see how they do when Lidstrom stops skating.. he's a once in a lifetime talent that anchors the entire franchise.

 

I think there are plenty of trade options but the question was brought up... who is Detroit getting rid of?

 

True- but the whole "system" thing gets way overblown.

These teams arent running the same schemes continuously, they are constantly evolving.

 

A team's general concepts are tailored to fit the specific talent on the roster. Its not like you just subtract a yzerman and plug in a datsyuk and off ya go.

 

Its very complicated and has much more to do with the general philosophy of the org. than it does with the X's and O;s

[Marvelo]

Sam Gagner is the perfect sucker play for the Sabres. They'll get sucked into his one HOF game and bank the future on it, a Rob Johnson in the making.

[Iron Crotch]

On another note, players like Datsyuk and Zetterberg had to be no more than crab shoots when Detroit picked them. If Detroit had some great scouting staff that predicted their success, they wouldn't have waited to the fifth or sixth round. It is true Detroit developed these players, but as stated above, if they can turn late round picks into gold what happened to the last 12 years.

 

Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, Hudler, Filppula, and Jonathan Ericsson (last pick in the 2002 draft) were all the personal picks of Detroit's head European scout Hakan Andersson. Supposedly he was given latitude to personally make a late round pick in each draft and has done quite well with those picks.

 

Edit: On another note, the Sabres recent (since 2000 or so) draft history is about as good as any team in the NHL in terms of producing NHL players. http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks

I think Darcy is worthless when it comes to evaluating pro personel, but I give him credit for drafting well. Maybe the video scouting works?

[beerme1]

Sam Gagner is the perfect sucker play for the Sabres. They'll get sucked into his one HOF game and bank the future on it, a Rob Johnson in the making.

 

He cant be worse than what we've had but I dont see Darcy dealing jack ###### to Edmonton. The Vanek burn will prevent him.

[fan2456]

Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, Hudler, Filppula, and Jonathan Ericsson (last pick in the 2002 draft) were all the personal picks of Detroit's head European scout Hakan Andersson. Supposedly he was given latitude to personally make a late round pick in each draft and has done quite well with those picks.

 

Edit: On another note, the Sabres recent (since 2000 or so) draft history is about as good as any team in the NHL in terms of producing NHL players. http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks

I think Darcy is worthless when it comes to evaluating pro personel, but I give him credit for drafting well. Maybe the video scouting works?

Except, I knew one of his video scouts. They used it at the pro level, not juniors. That shoots the theory all to hell. That scout moved on to Nashville or Columbus, I don't remember which.

[shrader]

Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, Hudler, Filppula, and Jonathan Ericsson (last pick in the 2002 draft) were all the personal picks of Detroit's head European scout Hakan Andersson. Supposedly he was given latitude to personally make a late round pick in each draft and has done quite well with those picks.

 

Edit: On another note, the Sabres recent (since 2000 or so) draft history is about as good as any team in the NHL in terms of producing NHL players. http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks

I think Darcy is worthless when it comes to evaluating pro personel, but I give him credit for drafting well. Maybe the video scouting works?

 

Kronwall was a 1st, Hudler a 2nd, and Filppula. Those definitely don't qualify as late round picks. There is probably something to that idea that he was given a late round pick each year though as they have a ridiculous number of Swedes drafted very late.

 

He cant be worse than what we've had but I dont see Darcy dealing jack ###### to Edmonton. The Vanek burn will prevent him.

 

It's not even the same GM anymore. And we sent Kotalik there a couple years back so there's no "we can't deal with Edmonton!" mentality floating around.

[Eleven]

 

It's not even the same GM anymore. And we sent Kotalik there a couple years back so there's no "we can't deal with Edmonton!" mentality floating around.

 

Yeah, the Sabres had their revenge already.

[korab rules]

What do Detroit and New England have in common, besides great coaching? They have a system in place that every player buys into. I'm fairly certain that they can make most players look better than they are because of the systems. Look at players who leave those systems and tell me which of them continue to play as well? So, I look at the concept of Detroit bringing in Roy and I think.. I bet they can make him better. He was a point per game player with the Sabres.. I think they would be able to get that out of him... hell they could do it with Stafford too.

 

Look at the lineage in Detroit and you can see how they maintain their status. Go back to Yzerman... then Lidstrom, then you pull in guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk and you continue the roll. The question is though.. who do they have that will continue that? I'm real curious to see how they do when Lidstrom stops skating.. he's a once in a lifetime talent that anchors the entire franchise.

 

I think there are plenty of trade options but the question was brought up... who is Detroit getting rid of?

 

Detroit having a system is good, and makes players better, but Buffalo running the same sytem is bad.

 

My head hurts.

[LTS]

True- but the whole "system" thing gets way overblown.

These teams arent running the same schemes continuously, they are constantly evolving.

 

A team's general concepts are tailored to fit the specific talent on the roster. Its not like you just subtract a yzerman and plug in a datsyuk and off ya go.

 

Its very complicated and has much more to do with the general philosophy of the org. than it does with the X's and O;s

 

No, the "system" isn't just what's on the ice. It's the culture and attitude of the franchise. When you arrive you get on board or get on out. The respect you give to the players on the team that demand that group mentality is what keeps it going. The talent definitely fits and you can't just insert ANYONE but the odds are good you'll make a mediocre player better.

 

Holmstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Kronwall, Hudler, Filppula, and Jonathan Ericsson (last pick in the 2002 draft) were all the personal picks of Detroit's head European scout Hakan Andersson. Supposedly he was given latitude to personally make a late round pick in each draft and has done quite well with those picks.

 

Edit: On another note, the Sabres recent (since 2000 or so) draft history is about as good as any team in the NHL in terms of producing NHL players. http://en.wikipedia....res_draft_picks

I think Darcy is worthless when it comes to evaluating pro personel, but I give him credit for drafting well. Maybe the video scouting works?

 

Well, having European scouting is a start... the Sabres and Europeans don't mix well (or didn't anyway).

 

Detroit having a system is good, and makes players better, but Buffalo running the same sytem is bad.

 

My head hurts.

 

Having a system is not the end all be all. The Sabres had the players in the locker room to help keep things in line. They don't have that now. They had Drury, McKee, and Grier. Briere then fit into the system and helped build that. Now they have no one. It's certainly the accountability issue that we've discussed before. No one on this year's Sabres had that impact, initially. I wouldn't be surprised if over the year that's started to play out but players like Vanek, Stafford, and Roy aren't it.

 

Detroit has bred players for years through their system and players fit in. Players like Yzerman, Lidstrom, Maltby, Draper, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and the list goes on. They all succeeded and then when parts would retire the rest would have that lineage for the younger players. Walk into the Red Wings dressing room as a young player and who are you looking at?

 

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Cleary, Kronwall.. next tier (Franzen, Holmstrom, Filpulla, Hudler, Helm, Bertuzzi).

 

Walk into the Sabres dressing room and who are you looking at and that's the problem. We have guys who have been in the system but they've never established themselves. The overlap period was not great enough to continue the mentality that the Sabres had in 2006. Look at how long the players for the Red Wings were skating with someone like Kris Draper, Maltby, and so on and they still have Lidstrom..

 

That's the system I'm talking about. Not necessarily the system on the ice, although that's important. You get a team mentality and we've discussed how the Sabres don't really have that right now..

[Marvelo]

when it comes to Sam Gagner for Drew Stafford, yeah, I'd make the deal. That's where Stafford wants to go -- similar to Marshawn Lynch...the guy won't play for Bflo but will engineer his way out of town and play well where he wanted to be all along..

[korab rules]

when it comes to Sam Gagner for Drew Stafford, yeah, I'd make the deal. That's where Stafford wants to go -- similar to Marshawn Lynch...the guy won't play for Bflo but will engineer his way out of town and play well where he wanted to be all along..

Oh great, another smurf. I would rather have a 3rd round pick than Gagner - a guy who has never scored more than 16 goals in a season - smaller and less scoring? Lets do it! Oh, and he is hurt more than stafford, too.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Oh great, another smurf. I would rather have a 3rd round pick than Gagner - a guy who has never scored more than 16 goals in a season - smaller and less scoring? Lets do it! Oh, and he is hurt more than stafford, too.

 

Can't argue that he wouldn't fit in then :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

LTS has it.

 

You find guys that have high sports IQ and are hard workers. If they are high character, all the better. Those types of guys are going to have a better chance to succeed in any on-field system. When you have enough base of those intelligent players with some talent on your team, then you can take a shot at a few pure-skill types because your team can handle the influx and any potential diva attitude will be diluted by the 80% of the guys in the room who are there to win, know what it takes to win, and won't take crap. That's why Derek Roy in Chicago or Pittsburgh has a better chance to thrive than in Buffalo. There is a recent culture of winning there with enough solid names and characters to peer pressure him into focusing and performing. It's not just being surrounded by talent itself, but talent that holds you accountable.

 

The Patriots are the model in football. There are positions that you can draft pure talent. Tackle, speed receiver, running down back, weakside olb, corner. The key to NE is they put SMART players in the positions that require thinking on the fly. QB, pattern WR, 3rd down back, center and guard, mlb and strongside backer, safety. You see a certain mold, year after year. Because they find guys that they can TRUST on the field for a decade at a time, he trades down and collects picks to focus on the same type of player while at the same time he now has more lottery tickets to take a flyer on a few pure talents that could possibly fit in. If you look at pure talent on paper, there are plenty of other teams that can compete with NE over the years. What having high IQ guys out there does for Bellicheck is that it allows him to focus on being a general instead of a micromanager. He can trust Brady, Welker, and his interior line to make the right reads out there. He can trust his safety and LBs to put them in a bend don't break call because they know their offense will outscore anyone given enough time. It's been like that forever.

 

Bellicheck's genious is that he let's his guys do their thing.

[darksabre]

LTS has it.

 

You find guys that have high sports IQ and are hard workers. If they are high character, all the better. Those types of guys are going to have a better chance to succeed in any on-field system. When you have enough base of those intelligent players with some talent on your team, then you can take a shot at a few pure-skill types because your team can handle the influx and any potential diva attitude will be diluted by the 80% of the guys in the room who are there to win, know what it takes to win, and won't take crap. That's why Derek Roy in Chicago or Pittsburgh has a better chance to thrive than in Buffalo. There is a recent culture of winning there with enough solid names and characters to peer pressure him into focusing and performing. It's not just being surrounded by talent itself, but talent that holds you accountable.

 

The Patriots are the model in football. There are positions that you can draft pure talent. Tackle, speed receiver, running down back, weakside olb, corner. The key to NE is they put SMART players in the positions that require thinking on the fly. QB, pattern WR, 3rd down back, center and guard, mlb and strongside backer, safety. You see a certain mold, year after year. Because they find guys that they can TRUST on the field for a decade at a time, he trades down and collects picks to focus on the same type of player while at the same time he now has more lottery tickets to take a flyer on a few pure talents that could possibly fit in. If you look at pure talent on paper, there are plenty of other teams that can compete with NE over the years. What having high IQ guys out there does for Bellicheck is that it allows him to focus on being a general instead of a micromanager. He can trust Brady, Welker, and his interior line to make the right reads out there. He can trust his safety and LBs to put them in a bend don't break call because they know their offense will outscore anyone given enough time. It's been like that forever.

 

Bellicheck's genious is that he let's his guys do their thing.

 

I don't think I've ever agreed with you more about anything.

[JJFIVEOH]

Dennis Wideman (Buffalo's 8th rounder in 2002)............ all-star.

[wonderbread]

LTS has it.

 

You find guys that have high sports IQ and are hard workers. If they are high character, all the better. Those types of guys are going to have a better chance to succeed in any on-field system. When you have enough base of those intelligent players with some talent on your team, then you can take a shot at a few pure-skill types because your team can handle the influx and any potential diva attitude will be diluted by the 80% of the guys in the room who are there to win, know what it takes to win, and won't take crap. That's why Derek Roy in Chicago or Pittsburgh has a better chance to thrive than in Buffalo. There is a recent culture of winning there with enough solid names and characters to peer pressure him into focusing and performing. It's not just being surrounded by talent itself, but talent that holds you accountable.

 

The Patriots are the model in football. There are positions that you can draft pure talent. Tackle, speed receiver, running down back, weakside olb, corner. The key to NE is they put SMART players in the positions that require thinking on the fly. QB, pattern WR, 3rd down back, center and guard, mlb and strongside backer, safety. You see a certain mold, year after year. Because they find guys that they can TRUST on the field for a decade at a time, he trades down and collects picks to focus on the same type of player while at the same time he now has more lottery tickets to take a flyer on a few pure talents that could possibly fit in. If you look at pure talent on paper, there are plenty of other teams that can compete with NE over the years. What having high IQ guys out there does for Bellicheck is that it allows him to focus on being a general instead of a micromanager. He can trust Brady, Welker, and his interior line to make the right reads out there. He can trust his safety and LBs to put them in a bend don't break call because they know their offense will outscore anyone given enough time. It's been like that forever.

 

Bellicheck's genious is that he let's his guys do their thing.

 

i think I love you.

[darksabre]

Dennis Wideman (Buffalo's 8th rounder in 2002)............ all-star.

 

:(

[korab rules]

:(

:P

[fan2456]

No, the "system" isn't just what's on the ice. It's the culture and attitude of the franchise. When you arrive you get on board or get on out. The respect you give to the players on the team that demand that group mentality is what keeps it going. The talent definitely fits and you can't just insert ANYONE but the odds are good you'll make a mediocre player better.

 

 

 

Well, having European scouting is a start... the Sabres and Europeans don't mix well (or didn't anyway).

 

 

 

Having a system is not the end all be all. The Sabres had the players in the locker room to help keep things in line. They don't have that now. They had Drury, McKee, and Grier. Briere then fit into the system and helped build that. Now they have no one. It's certainly the accountability issue that we've discussed before.

 

Paul Hamilton, the WGR morons and the accountability BS AGAIN. Perpetuated by their listeners who actually believe it because they say so on the mothership radio station.. Like talent does not matter. It's all about holding each other accountable DRury, Drury Drury. The guy who won 1 cup, when he was a third line player on a team with 5, maybe 6 hall of famers? He hit a home run at age12 in the little league world series. Wow, he put a picture of the cup up in the dressing room. He had his best years in the NHL while in Buffalo in the two most unique years of officiating in the last 25 of the NHL. A small soft team could excel in that two year vacumn. He moved on to NY and quickly became a non-factor in the old NHL. This team isn't built to win in todays NHL, even if God were here to hold them accountable. I'ts a lack of leadrship? No it's a LOFT proplem! People need to get their head out of the sand, and that includes our owner................ JW says If we only had a number one center, everything would be okay. LOL . .

[tom webster]

LTS has it.

 

You find guys that have high sports IQ and are hard workers. If they are high character, all the better. Those types of guys are going to have a better chance to succeed in any on-field system. When you have enough base of those intelligent players with some talent on your team, then you can take a shot at a few pure-skill types because your team can handle the influx and any potential diva attitude will be diluted by the 80% of the guys in the room who are there to win, know what it takes to win, and won't take crap. That's why Derek Roy in Chicago or Pittsburgh has a better chance to thrive than in Buffalo. There is a recent culture of winning there with enough solid names and characters to peer pressure him into focusing and performing. It's not just being surrounded by talent itself, but talent that holds you accountable.

 

The Patriots are the model in football. There are positions that you can draft pure talent. Tackle, speed receiver, running down back, weakside olb, corner. The key to NE is they put SMART players in the positions that require thinking on the fly. QB, pattern WR, 3rd down back, center and guard, mlb and strongside backer, safety. You see a certain mold, year after year. Because they find guys that they can TRUST on the field for a decade at a time, he trades down and collects picks to focus on the same type of player while at the same time he now has more lottery tickets to take a flyer on a few pure talents that could possibly fit in. If you look at pure talent on paper, there are plenty of other teams that can compete with NE over the years. What having high IQ guys out there does for Bellicheck is that it allows him to focus on being a general instead of a micromanager. He can trust Brady, Welker, and his interior line to make the right reads out there. He can trust his safety and LBs to put them in a bend don't break call because they know their offense will outscore anyone given enough time. It's been like that forever.

 

Bellicheck's genious is that he let's his guys do their thing.

 

The irony of Bellicheck's genius with regard to his whealing and dealing on draft day is that he really does a terrible job drafting. The roster has 18 undrafted free agents. I still wonder how succesful he would have been had he not hit on Brady. Its been a long time since I did the research but if I remember fewer then 5 players from his first three drafts played more then a couple of seasons and his record has been even worse in recent years save for the two tight ends and Mayo.

[deluca67]

Paul Hamilton, the WGR morons and the accountability BS AGAIN. Perpetuated by their listeners who actually believe it because they say so on the mothership radio station.. Like talent does not matter. It's all about holding each other accountable DRury, Drury Drury. The guy who won 1 cup, when he was a third line player on a team with 5, maybe 6 hall of famers? He hit a home run at age12 in the little league world series. Wow, he put a picture of the cup up in the dressing room. He had his best years in the NHL while in Buffalo in the two most unique years of officiating in the last 25 of the NHL. A small soft team could excel in that two year vacumn. He moved on to NY and quickly became a non-factor in the old NHL. This team isn't built to win in todays NHL, even if God were here to hold them accountable. I'ts a lack of leadrship? No it's a LOFT proplem! People need to get their head out of the sand, and that includes our owner................ JW says If we only had a number one center, everything would be okay. LOL . .

What makes Detroit the premier franchise in the NHL? They have a ton of talent and great leadership. It's not an either or proposition. Individual talent is important. You also need a level of accountability for that talent in a team situation.

 

There have been many talented players over the years that didn't amount to jack. Why? Because they didn't that inner drive to keep themselves honest. That is where accountability comes in. There are certain types of players that can keep teammates honest and force teammates to be at their best when they might otherwise fall into a rut that leads to taking the easy way out. That is what PH means when he talks about accountability. I want this team to be much more tougher. I want their "talented" players to play tougher. It doesn't have to one or the other.

[fan2456]

What makes Detroit the premier franchise in the NHL? They have a ton of talent and great leadership. It's not an either or proposition. Individual talent is important. You also need a level of accountability for that talent in a team situation.

 

There have been many talented players over the years that didn't amount to jack. Why? Because they didn't that inner drive to keep themselves honest. That is where accountability comes in. There are certain types of players that can keep teammates honest and force teammates to be at their best when they might otherwise fall into a rut that leads to taking the easy way out. That is what PH means when he talks about accountability. I want this team to be much more tougher. I want their "talented" players to play tougher. It doesn't have to one or the other.

 

I couldn't agree more with the first paragraph. They aren't seperate entities. Furthermore, the bulk of the team has to have that inner drive. If you need 3 or 4 to hold the rest accountasble, you are screwed. The bulk have to have that inner drive and common goal. You can pull a few along with accountablity, not 15. These Sabres lack both leadership and adequate talent. PH can talk accountablity, and rightly so, but we don't have enough good hockey players. That means the whole package: Skating, skills, size and drive.

[Koomkie]

when it comes to Sam Gagner for Drew Stafford, yeah, I'd make the deal. That's where Stafford wants to go -- similar to Marshawn Lynch...the guy won't play for Bflo but will engineer his way out of town and play well where he wanted to be all along..

if stafford wants to play for edmonton, why did he just sign a deal with the sabres, why didn't he hold out and ask to be traded?

[deluca67]

I couldn't agree more with the first paragraph. They aren't seperate entities. Furthermore, the bulk of the team has to have that inner drive. If you need 3 or 4 to hold the rest accountasble, you are screwed. The bulk have to have that inner drive and common goal. You can pull a few along with accountablity, not 15.

It's just human nature. You are talking about kids that have always been the best players on their teams. A lot of players come into the NHL never having to rely on teammates for success. Accountability is one way to define it. Another way is to say it is a passing on of experience.

[wonderbread]

 

if stafford wants to play for edmonton, why did he just sign a deal with the sabres, why didn't he hold out and ask to be traded?

 

If you had a potential to milk a golden cow while still having the ability to sign where you wanted to "next contract" you would too!

 

when it comes to Sam Gagner for Drew Stafford, yeah, I'd make the deal. That's where Stafford wants to go -- similar to Marshawn Lynch...the guy won't play for Bflo but will engineer his way out of town and play well where he wanted to be all along..

 

No way he's hurt way to much. He doesn't have the size that this team needs and he's not very consistent. Stafford is a decent player and could garner more than just Gagner alone.