PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Of course we feel the Sabres have been the epitome of mediocrity under Ruff & Regier. We are fans. But those outside opinions, if asked, would tell you R&R have done a decent job keeping a small market/small spending team competitive. I've been saying all along Pegula's hands are tied by his early statements of support for R&R, and he would look extremely foolish if he got rid of both mid-season. His rep as an owner is at stake, and that will affect his ability to hire the best people down the road. No good coach or GM wants to work for an owner who loves you one minute then fires you the next. I'm starting to think the root of what we are seeing is Miller, and I do think it all started with the Lucic incident. Miller probably feels he's carried the Sabres for years, and his guys failed to defend him. So he's probably all pissed off at the team, and the team is pissed off at what they see as a prima donna attitude. Add in the fact that Miller probably misses his hot wife who is over 3K miles away. Regier is probably trying to deal Miller but his play is driving his value down. He probably considers Miller a franchise-level goalie and wants a package worthy of such. If he takes less, Regier will have the rep of getting squat for a star player, especially if Miler starts playing well again. I do think Pegula and Black are not taking things lying down. They probably have consultants looking at the situation, but in secret so as not to upset the current regime. PTR
RazielSabre Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Unless the management are trying to bomb out, which isn't entirely unlikely at this stage, something will change soon. Not even Columbus put up with it ALL season.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Blasphemy! Yeah, that's just goofy talk. I agree, but was the situation that much worse under LQ, as opposed to the reality of today's Sabres.
apuszczalowski Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Colin Campbell? I would rather keep Regier. Campbell is an assclown. The job he did with the NHL front office is an embarrassment to all of hockey. I don't know if I would take it that far, Campbell does have an upside to him, atleast we know that we will get less suspensions then the Bruins, and kaleta won't have to be afraid to hit people for fear of penalty/suspension!
LabattBlue Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Of course we feel the Sabres have been the epitome of mediocrity under Ruff & Regier. We are fans. But those outside opinions, if asked, would tell you R&R have done a decent job keeping a small market/small spending team competitive. I disagree. Any "hockey experts" outside of Buffalo, would not consider a 4 year run of missing the playoffs two years, and getting booted in the first round in two more years, a "decent job"(not to mention a good chance of more of the same this year). This is in a league where half the teams make the playoffs every year.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I disagree. Any "hockey experts" outside of Buffalo, would not consider a 4 year run of missing the playoffs two years, and getting booted in the first round in two more years, a "decent job"(not to mention a good chance of more of the same this year). This is in a league where half the teams make the playoffs every year. yeah but you forgot the two years before that where they went to the conference finals and won a presidents trophy... I know it doesnt help your argument ut for a small market team to do this in the last six years "decent"is rather fitting, has it been amazing, no, but its not that bad. Their 14 year run has not been awful and it hasnt been awesome either, "decent is rather fitting for DR and LR. Now I am looking for awesome though with pegula in charge.
Bmwolf21 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I've always liked Patrick, and knew he had ties to Terry Pegula, so i just connected them. However, I did not know this part, so thanks for telling me, i'll stop now stop hoping we get Patrick. lol Yeah me too, but once CBUS hired him as their "senior adviser" to help Howson I knew he would be off the market. Why they haven't dropped the hammer on Howson yet is beyond me, though...
LabattBlue Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 yeah but you forgot the two years before that where they went to the conference finals and won a presidents trophy... I know it doesnt help your argument ut for a small market team to do this in the last six years "decent"is rather fitting, has it been amazing, no, but its not that bad. Their 14 year run has not been awful and it hasnt been awesome either, "decent is rather fitting for DR and LR. Now I am looking for awesome though with pegula in charge. It's all about "what have you done lately". 4 years + 2 playoff misses + 2 first round losses + this season + half the teams make the playoffs every year = Lindy and Darcy should not be here in 12-13. PS Small market team is BS. Let me know where the Sabres ranked in terms of cap spending for each of the last 5 years(this season included). More like bad decisions on long term contracts that have been handed out like candy over the last 4-5 years.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 It's all about "what have you done lately". 4 years + 2 playoff misses + 2 first round losses + this season + half the teams make the playoffs every year = Lindy and Darcy should not be here in 12-13. PS Small market team is BS. Let me know where the Sabres ranked in terms of cap spending for each of the last 5 years(this season included). More like bad decisions on long term contracts that have been handed out like candy over the last 4-5 years. Thats not what was being talked about, I agree with you that they should be gone due to their recent lack of success but that isnt going to define their time here, they have had succss and put together some pretty great teams. If people here dont think that LR and DR will be at te top of the list for vacancies on other teams after they are fired here are kidding themselves. They are going to be highly sought after if they are fired here. LR is the Jeff Fisher of the NHL and will have his pick of jobs if he isnt here.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Thats not what was being talked about, I agree with you that they should be gone due to their recent lack of success but that isnt going to define their time here, they have had succss and put together some pretty great teams. If people here dont think that LR and DR will be at te top of the list for vacancies on other teams after they are fired here are kidding themselves. They are going to be highly sought after if they are fired here. LR is the Jeff Fisher of the NHL and will have his pick of jobs if he isnt here. I agree with you on this point concerning LR, but IMO DR would have trouble finding work as a GM with an NHL team. Lindy will have an NHL coaching job very soon after he is fired here, if / when that happens ... if he wants one.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with you on this point concerning LR, but IMO DR would have trouble finding work as a GM with an NHL team. Lindy will have an NHL coaching job very soon after he is fired here, if / when that happens ... if he wants one. There are teams that are willing to give DR the reigns to build a team, say what you want about Darcy but those Drury/Briere teams were incredible and his drafting has been pretty impressive recently. People see all the AHL rookie of the years and all of the young talent that we have. There are a lot of team in more trouble that we are. I can see a package deal even happening, when DR and LR are kept together to try and accomplish the success we have had here. (no this year)
carpandean Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with you on this point concerning LR, but IMO DR would have trouble finding work as a GM with an NHL team. Lindy will have an NHL coaching job very soon after he is fired here, if / when that happens ... if he wants one. I agree on both accounts, but don't really care if they do or don't.
LabattBlue Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Thats not what was being talked about, I agree with you that they should be gone due to their recent lack of success but that isnt going to define their time here, they have had succss and put together some pretty great teams. If people here dont think that LR and DR will be at te top of the list for vacancies on other teams after they are fired here are kidding themselves. They are going to be highly sought after if they are fired here. LR is the Jeff Fisher of the NHL and will have his pick of jobs if he isnt here. Lindy... yes. Darcy...don't be so sure. By the way my post was in response to putting some of the blame for lack of success at the feet of "we are a small market team". That is what I was responding to.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Lindy... yes. Darcy...don't be so sure. By the way my post was in response to putting some of the blame for lack of success at the feet of "we are a small market team". That is what I was responding to. But promo was talking about the entire regime of LR and DR not just this year or recently, outside experts do think that they have done at least a decent job with this team, I think most think thye have done a pretty good job with what they were given in the past...now not so much
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree, but was the situation that much worse under LQ, as opposed to the reality of today's Sabres. Yes, it would be worse, because I still have faith that Pegula will get things right. As I've said elsewhere, it may not be immediately, but the guy has been too smart and too successful in his life to just let mediocrity (or worse) linger unimpeded. Sure he may have backed Ruff/Regier when he bought the team, but he isn't married to them the way Quinn is. With Quinn, I'd just accept that nothing will ever be done.
Realist Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Lindy... yes. Darcy...don't be so sure. By the way my post was in response to putting some of the blame for lack of success at the feet of "we are a small market team". That is what I was responding to. I agree with that, the "small market team" excuse is bull ######. The term small market team is used for smaller areas that don't spend to the cap. The Sabres have spent to the cap not only this year, but several years in the past. If we are at the cap with these players and this effort, obviously Regier is not doing his job.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with that, the "small market team" excuse is bull ######. The term small market team is used for smaller areas that don't spend to the cap. The Sabres have spent to the cap not only this year, but several years in the past. If we are at the cap with these players and this effort, obviously Regier is not doing his job. DR was definately handcuffed by ownership in the past.
Claude_Verret Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 DR was definately handcuffed by ownership in the past. He certainly was in terms of keeping talent here, but then he turned around and spent very unwisely on players he was allowed to keep.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 He certainly was in terms of keeping talent here, but then he turned around and spent very unwisely on players he was allowed to keep. I agree with this a lot but most times that was the going rate. Stafford earned this contract with his play last year... sometimes players dont live up to it but if DR would have let stafford walk after he led the leauge in hat tricks, scored 40 goals and looked like he finally figured out the game he would be the laughing stock of the league. Hindsight is 20/20 but GMs have to take risks... the TIMMY signing is the one where i can look at and be dumb founded by the move. But IMO that is the only signing where i say WTF
carpandean Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 DR was definately handcuffed by ownership in the past. This is, and will always likely be, an interesting question; how much was he really handcuffed? They spent a lot of money (cap-wise) every year since the lockout (the one exception was when Teppo's contract was taken off the books in September, which dropped them below the median in spending.) Certainly, it seems that the Drury contract was messed up by Golisano's ideas of how players should be handled (one-year deals), and likely Quinn played a role in keeping Connolly around for so long, but how else he was really handcuffed? We don't really know. Much of what has been wrong in the last five years had been spending money poorly, not that he couldn't spend at all. Not being allowed to make the type of deals that he did this Summer really doesn't constitute being handcuffed, since 2/3 (or more) of the league's GMs probably aren't allowed to do those either. TPegs is an extreme end of giving a GM money, not the norm. Stafford ... scored 40 goals 40 goal pace? He only scored 31.
TrueBlueGED Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I don't think Regier was handcuffed much directly relating to the salary cap, but that's not all that matters. Our anemic (non-existent) European scouting presence is one example. Also, while he could spend just about to the cap, he couldn't give contracts the structure that really attracts free agents. Bonus money, long term, that kind of stuff just didn't happen. And with trades, he could NEVER have buried Kotalik's contract under Quinn/Golisano. So just because the Sabres routinely spent close to the cap doesn't mean Regier wasn't working with significant restrictions.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 This is, and will always likely be, an interesting question; how much was he really handcuffed? They spent a lot of money (cap-wise) every year since the lockout (the one exception was when Teppo's contract was taken off the books in September, which dropped them below the median in spending.) Certainly, it seems that the Drury contract was messed up by Golisano's ideas of how players should be handled (one-year deals), and likely Quinn played a role in keeping Connolly around for so long, but how else he was really handcuffed? We don't really know. Much of what has been wrong in the last five years had been spending money poorly, not that he couldn't spend at all. Not being allowed to make the type of deals that he did this Summer really doesn't constitute being handcuffed, since 2/3 (or more) of the league's GMs probably aren't allowed to do those either. TPegs is an extreme end of giving a GM money, not the norm. 40 goal pace? He only scored 31. typo meant 30
nucci Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I agree with this a lot but most times that was the going rate. Stafford earned this contract with his play last year... sometimes players dont live up to it but if DR would have let stafford walk after he led the leauge in hat tricks, scored 40 goals and looked like he finally figured out the game he would be the laughing stock of the league. Hindsight is 20/20 but GMs have to take risks... the TIMMY signing is the one where i can look at and be dumb founded by the move. But IMO that is the only signing where i say WTF If he let Stafford walk and Stafford is having the year he is having, he would look like a genius. That's what GMs get paid for. There are many athletes who have their best years in their contract year. I think it was easy to tell that Stafford would be one of those players.
carpandean Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I don't think Regier was handcuffed much directly relating to the salary cap, but that's not all that matters. Our anemic (non-existent) European scouting presence is one example. Also, while he could spend just about to the cap, he couldn't give contracts the structure that really attracts free agents. Bonus money, long term, that kind of stuff just didn't happen. And with trades, he could NEVER have buried Kotalik's contract under Quinn/Golisano. So just because the Sabres routinely spent close to the cap doesn't mean Regier wasn't working with significant restrictions. While he may have been limited a little on long-term contracts, big up-front signing bonuses and burying contracts are the exception in the NHL, not the norm. Very few owners are willing to let their GMs spend that kind of money. So, not having that ability isn't being handcuffed, it just means that you're not spoiled. You don't have to be spoiled to be a successful GM. In fact, the Rangers have had only mediocre success (prior to this year, but Richards really wanted to go there) with a very spoiled GM, while others with more normal resources have done more.
FolignosJock Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 If he let Stafford walk and Stafford is having the year he is having, he would look like a genius. That's what GMs get paid for. There are many athletes who have their best years in their contract year. I think it was easy to tell that Stafford would be one of those players. Name one NHL GM who has let a 30 goal scorer walk in RFA or in an instance where they didnt get outbid and looked like a genius.
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