Weave Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I used them, occasionally Theres a difference between just adding players, and adding the right players. And just because Ehrhoff was signed for a lot of money, doesn't make him a great player. The problem this offseason was that they did not make the right moves. They didn't need another winger that they hoped could become a servicable Centre after never really seeing what he could do at the situation. Ehrhoff may have been the biggest name defencemen available, but talk to anyone in vancouver that watched him play and they would tell you he is good, but not great, and not worth anywhere near what Buffalo paid. They were fine with letting him go if he wouldn't come back for less then $3-4 mil a year. Yet tEhrhoff and Regehr still were both upgrades over the D we replaced from last year and we are now worse. My point is, if we were just a couple players away from being contenders last year then at worse you should be able to successfully argue that we are still just a couple players away this year. I think the teams' performance this season strongly suggests that if you thought we were just a couple players away last season you were mistaken. From what I'm seeing this year we still need a center for Vanek. We need an upgrade to the entire 2nd line. And a 3rd line that is capable of putting at least 40 or so goals in the net. I'm thinking that puts us about 5-6 players away. And I'm not convinced that is enough change. I guess it comes down to how you want to define "a couple players away".
nfreeman Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Yet tEhrhoff and Regehr still were both upgrades over the D we replaced from last year and we are now worse. My point is, if we were just a couple players away from being contenders last year then at worse you should be able to successfully argue that we are still just a couple players away this year. I think the teams' performance this season strongly suggests that if you thought we were just a couple players away last season you were mistaken. From what I'm seeing this year we still need a center for Vanek. We need an upgrade to the entire 2nd line. And a 3rd line that is capable of putting at least 40 or so goals in the net. I'm thinking that puts us about 5-6 players away. And I'm not convinced that is enough change. I guess it comes down to how you want to define "a couple players away". I too think it's only a couple of players, but it needs to be the right couple of players. And I'm not referring to Gretzky and Orr. I really think an elite team needs to be more than the sum of its parts. Salary cap issues aside, it's not just assembling an all-star team. Getting the right mix of leaders, skill, force, speed, heart, clutch play, complementary abilities, toughness, size and (especially) goaltending is so important. That's why losing Drury and Briere and Soupy hurt so badly. None of them was a top-5 NHL player, but each of them was integral to the mix. Each of the guys that many people here (including me) want to dump -- Roy, Stafford, Pommer, Leopold, Hecht, etc. -- is a pretty good complementary piece. For example, I think Roy is a pretty strong negative presence on the team, but I'd be happy with him as a #3 center at $2MM per year. If he dogs it on a shift -- let him sit. And his 50-60 points and PK ability is great to have IN THAT SLOT. The same is true for Pommer -- who wouldn't want him as your #2 RW at $2.5MM per year? Or Hecht as your #3 or #4 center or LW at $1.6MM? But none of them is the guy that makes his teammates want to follow him into the dark, scary places or to work as hard as he does and take practice and preparation as seriously as he does so that, when those 2 or 3 key moments in a game present themselves, he is ready to convert. Just as importantly, those new players need to replace the right couple of incumbents who need to go. So I continue to think that swapping out, say, Roy and Pommer for guys like, say, Mike Richards and Shane Doan, could have a huge positive impact -- and not just due to the production of those 2 guys, but due to their effect on the current underperformers. In particular, I could see Stafford having a resurgence with the right teammates and role models.
Weave Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 I too think it's only a couple of players, but it needs to be the right couple of players. And I'm not referring to Gretzky and Orr. I really think an elite team needs to be more than the sum of its parts. Salary cap issues aside, it's not just assembling an all-star team. Getting the right mix of leaders, skill, force, speed, heart, clutch play, complementary abilities, toughness, size and (especially) goaltending is so important. That's why losing Drury and Briere and Soupy hurt so badly. None of them was a top-5 NHL player, but each of them was integral to the mix. Each of the guys that many people here (including me) want to dump -- Roy, Stafford, Pommer, Leopold, Hecht, etc. -- is a pretty good complementary piece. For example, I think Roy is a pretty strong negative presence on the team, but I'd be happy with him as a #3 center at $2MM per year. If he dogs it on a shift -- let him sit. And his 50-60 points and PK ability is great to have IN THAT SLOT. The same is true for Pommer -- who wouldn't want him as your #2 RW at $2.5MM per year? Or Hecht as your #3 or #4 center or LW at $1.6MM? But none of them is the guy that makes his teammates want to follow him into the dark, scary places or to work as hard as he does and take practice and preparation as seriously as he does so that, when those 2 or 3 key moments in a game present themselves, he is ready to convert. Just as importantly, those new players need to replace the right couple of incumbents who need to go. So I continue to think that swapping out, say, Roy and Pommer for guys like, say, Mike Richards and Shane Doan, could have a huge positive impact -- and not just due to the production of those 2 guys, but due to their effect on the current underperformers. In particular, I could see Stafford having a resurgence with the right teammates and role models. I agree with most of the premise you make here. But I don't think we are a Mike Richards and Shane Doan away from contention. Moslty because I think we still have more, but admitedly smaller, pieces to get before that team becomes a deep-in-the-playoffs team. IMO your last paragraph represents the start of what needs to be done. It is what we need to start talking about maybe a round 2 series appearance. I'll let the team you GM keep Stafford though. I've seen enough of how he plays in the Spring. :D
nobody Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 "The only way to get out of this is to believe in the guys in the room and believe in yourself. You have to get that confidence in you. Right now we’re a group with injuries, which is never an excuse, but everyone needs to step up and be better. And that includes myself, the guys that are looked at for scoring -- that’s a big piece of the puzzle we’re looking for right now.’’ "We’re having a tough time scoring goals right now. If you want to score in games, you have to try and score in practice. When they’re not going in, in practice, you’re like ... well, you try not to get frustrated.’’ No - those are not quotes from the Sabres! They are from Devin Setoguchi in Minnesota. Here is a quote you won't hear from Lindy: "We’re ready to experiment, we’re ready to try some things,’’ head coach Mike Yeo explained after practice. "The status quo is not what we’re looking for right now.’’ Maybe Darcy can do something with Minny? To continue quoting from http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/13899/in-for-a-wild-ride-to-make-the-playoffs The GM is doing his best to try to lend a helping hand. Chuck Fletcher said Wednesday he was already planning on trying to add offense via trade back when his team was healthy, let alone with the ensuing injuries. Now with their top player in Koivu going down, Fletcher has ramped up those efforts. But finding a top-six forward is a challenge. "It’s not easy just to go out and get an impact player in January,’’ Fletcher said. "There’s a lot of teams people competing for similar assets, too. We’ll see what happens. I’ll try to do something if it makes sense. If it’s not there, I’m not going to force it.’’
apuszczalowski Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 "The only way to get out of this is to believe in the guys in the room and believe in yourself. You have to get that confidence in you. Right now we’re a group with injuries, which is never an excuse, but everyone needs to step up and be better. And that includes myself, the guys that are looked at for scoring -- that’s a big piece of the puzzle we’re looking for right now.’’ "We’re having a tough time scoring goals right now. If you want to score in games, you have to try and score in practice. When they’re not going in, in practice, you’re like ... well, you try not to get frustrated.’’ No - those are not quotes from the Sabres! They are from Devin Setoguchi in Minnesota. Here is a quote you won't hear from Lindy: "We’re ready to experiment, we’re ready to try some things,’’ head coach Mike Yeo explained after practice. "The status quo is not what we’re looking for right now.’’ Maybe Darcy can do something with Minny? To continue quoting from http://espn.go.com/b...ke-the-playoffs The GM is doing his best to try to lend a helping hand. Chuck Fletcher said Wednesday he was already planning on trying to add offense via trade back when his team was healthy, let alone with the ensuing injuries. Now with their top player in Koivu going down, Fletcher has ramped up those efforts. But finding a top-six forward is a challenge. "It’s not easy just to go out and get an impact player in January,’’ Fletcher said. "There’s a lot of teams people competing for similar assets, too. We’ll see what happens. I’ll try to do something if it makes sense. If it’s not there, I’m not going to force it.’’ Isn't this exactly one of the reasons everyone wants to run Lindy out of town, because he is always experimenting with different line combinations, moving wingers to C, trying new pairings on defence??????
TheFunPolice Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 I can see absolutely no downside of getting rid of Stafford and Roy without any compensation It frees up cap room for next season, sends a strong message, and allows younger players to get more experience. Of course, the Sabres could get something for them. But really, take whatever you can get and move on. Too bad Leino isn't tradeable at this point. WOW is that contract looking like a disaster
UncleWally Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 I will not read anythng u have 2 say until u change ur avatar. This an automated response. I agree, the man needs some dental work.
RazielSabre Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 I can see absolutely no downside of getting rid of Stafford and Roy without any compensation It frees up cap room for next season, sends a strong message, and allows younger players to get more experience. Of course, the Sabres could get something for them. But really, take whatever you can get and move on. Too bad Leino isn't tradeable at this point. WOW is that contract looking like a disaster Hey he has 5 years to prove himself :) :P
Miller Time Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The Sabres are loaded with talent and the way they've been getting blown out lately is a clear indication that the problem is with the coaching!
LabattBlue Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The Sabres are loaded with talent and the way they've been getting blown out lately is a clear indication that the problem is with the coaching! While the Sabres do have a bunch of guys who are under achieving, I would not characterize this team as "loaded with talent".
apuszczalowski Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 The Sabres are loaded with talent and the way they've been getting blown out lately is a clear indication that the problem is with the coaching! Every team in the NHL is "loaded with Talent", they have NHL players on their roster and you aren't going to get to get to play in the pros without some sort of talentThe problem is that the talent level is no where near being comparible to the top teams in this league I think Regiers family have been posting here the last few days, I'm starting to notice a "The GMs not at fault, he's done a great job getting the talent, Its the coach!" crowd popping up
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