LaFontaineToMogilny Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 OK, I get you. My thing is that I see Myers for Getzlaf as pretty much a Roy for Malkin deal, albeit not quite as extreme.
FolignosJock Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Really? Hard to argue with that "logic". Well cups are the goal, no? OK, I get you. My thing is that I see Myers for Getzlaf as pretty much a Roy for Malkin deal, albeit not quite as extreme. So not really at all then....
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 So not really at all then.... I think you understand what I mean and is just nitpicking, but in case my point is unclear: I think Ryan Getzlaf is so overrated that trading a player like Tyler Myers for him is ridiculously one sided. It would be even more ridiculous for the Pens to trade Malkin for Roy, but the proposed deal is still not a very good option for the Sabres.
shrader Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I think you understand what I mean and is just nitpicking, but in case my point is unclear: I think Ryan Getzlaf is so overrated that trading a player like Tyler Myers for him is ridiculously one sided. It would be even more ridiculous for the Pens to trade Malkin for Roy, but the proposed deal is still not a very good option for the Sabres. Just for the record, your point was very clear with your intended target, me.
FolignosJock Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I think you understand what I mean and is just nitpicking, but in case my point is unclear: I think Ryan Getzlaf is so overrated that trading a player like Tyler Myers for him is ridiculously one sided. It would be even more ridiculous for the Pens to trade Malkin for Roy, but the proposed deal is still not a very good option for the Sabres. I truly didnt, it is nitpicky though. The Malkin for Roy trade is just too silly and neither of those players are overrated except maybe by some silly sabres fans. I dont follow much getzlaf hockey but I am not high enough on him to give away myers.
waldo Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I was going to suggest that, thxs. never mind I found it. So: Tyler Myers has played in 22games. The Sabres as a team have allowed 57ga and have scored 55g so the math breaks down to: 2.5gpga 2.59gaa For games that Myers has played in In the 20 games he missed due to benching and injury. 2.6gpga 3.3gaa or a 14% increase in goals allowed (66) with a 6.5% (52) decrease in goals scored. Does anyone honestly think Getzlaf can make up a 20.5% scoring differential? I do not. Disclaimer: I did this quickly at work so if I miscalculated or missed a goal here or there I apologize. meh
apuszczalowski Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 I have only a few things to add to this discussion 1. Besides height, why is Myers always compared to Chara? What other similarities do they have besides being really tall defencemen? 2. Do people really think that trading away Roy and/or Stafford and/or Boyes, etc. are going to bring in big returns? 3. In order to get something of value you have to give up value. To get a player like Getzlaf, it might take giving up Myers straight up, or a couple of top rated prospects, or a bunch of picks, or a mixture of both. Anaheim won't give up a great player for garbage we don't want unless they get more in return. 4. Eveyone brings up Ruff ruining players, but what player has he ruined? Because a player doesn't reach his potential its the coach that ruined him? How many players, aside from Briere, came up through the Sabres system, have played under Ruff for atleast a season, and left to go have major success elsewhere? - MacArthur? He had a hot streak at the start of last season for Toronto (after doing nothing in Atlanta after being traded from the Sabres), and currently isn't playing much better then his time in Buffalo - Biron? Couldn't make it as a starter in Philly, basically has been exactly what he was in Buffalo, a capable backup - Pyatt? Bouced around from team to team and has been a pretty good 3rd/4th liner - Paillie? Had a great final 2 rounds in the playoffs on a cup winning team, was invisible before and pretty close to invisible since for the Bruins (My buddy watches a bunch of Bruins games with his Father in Law and he was saying that Paillie just seems uninterested with playing hockey. His wife went to school with Dan and knows him since they were kids, they said he played hockey cause thats what he was good at and not because he really wanted to) - Campbell? Turned a great season or 2 in Buffalo into a huge deal with Chicago and was considered a bust of a deal until this season where he is looking better for a Florida team missing big names - Butler? Noronen? Rory Fitzpatrick? Tim Kennedy? As for guys that played here and came here with NHL experience - Lydman? Tallinder? Spacek? Have any of them been much better then they were here? As for Darcys great deadline deals - Torres? Bernier? Moore? All "Guys who had/have potential and may just need a change of scenery" Have any of these players gone off to new teams and succeeded? Have they really been stunted by Lindy Ruff? Could it be that maybe the potential we think these players have is just not in them? Maybe Roy and Stafford really are just mediocre players, maybe guys like Gaustad have just been too banged up to keep throwing their bodies around at the NHL level? Maybe Kaleta and Kassian have it in the back of their heads that if they throw a hit thats just slightly off, they are looking at a suspension because of their reputation/pasts? To be honest, I really wouldn't want to give up Myers for Getzlaff, I would prefer to package a player like Roy (who may just need a change of scenery) with a decent prospect or 2 and maybe a pick for a top centre. I don't think this Sabres team will get much better by giving up a top player to get another top player in return
Sherman Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Did-Montreal-Panic-On-Myers-for-Getzlaf-Schenn-for-JvR-Kane-for-Doan/1/41310 Eklund has now reported the rumor therefore it will not happen.
shrader Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 As for Darcys great deadline deals - Torres? Bernier? Moore? All "Guys who had/have potential and may just need a change of scenery" Those weren't change of scenery deals. Torres and Moore were rentals, moved because their contracts were about to expire. Bernier was an NHL ready prospect, thrown in as a sweetener along with the 1st round pick. In terms of a "change of scenery" type guy that Darcy brought in, Briere was probably the most recent move of that type that Darcy made.
thesportsbuff Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Those weren't change of scenery deals. Torres and Moore were rentals, moved because their contracts were about to expire. Bernier was an NHL ready prospect, thrown in as a sweetener along with the 1st round pick. In terms of a "change of scenery" type guy that Darcy brought in, Briere was probably the most recent move of that type that Darcy made. Boyes? just nitpicking lol
shrader Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Boyes? just nitpicking lol No, I'm glad you mentioned it. He didn't cross my mind. The one thing with him is that I really wonder how things would have gone if he wasn't forced to center last year. But yeah, there's a good example of a change of scenery guy.
LTS Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 While people are fawning over your post I have a couple of objections to it besides also agreeiong with a lot of it. If Getzlaf was playing with Pom and Van dont tell me that isnt good and maybe Perry is scoring because of Getlaf. Maybe Van goes over 50. Dont tell me we CANT win now. I'm as pessimistic as anyone right now but Miller COULD return to form and solve the problem almost single handedly. I don't expect it but it COULD happen. Roy or Stafford could wake up. Enroth could too. There is a lot that they can fix. Good luck in your meeting. Your probably going to answer someones question with a reply like: I think the upside of keeping Myers is great and I wouldn't trade him for Getzlaf. lol I think Getzlaf playing with Vanek and Pominville is great.. unfortunately the Sabres don't have Selanne and Koivu sitting behind them. You know, Selanne, the guy that has to decide if he wants to come back each year and lead the team in scoring. (Man, he's awesome.. and I mean that most, sincere.) Look at the stats in Anaheim.. Koivu and Selanne lead the team in +/- and near the top in scoring... the Sabres sure as hell don't have that! I think the Sabres can win now. The players in the lineup have shown that on nights they can play hockey. Frankly I think they are probably at the point now where they are putting TOO much pressure on themselves and that makes it even more difficult to play. You'd like them to say "!@$# it." but I really think they are waiting for someone to get moved out before that happens. Right now when I watch them I feel like players are just not in it for each other. This means something is going on in the locker room and we'll hear about it at some point I am sure. Until then, no emotion... As someone who lives just 30 minutes from the Honda Center I watch a lot of Ducks hockey. The fact that we are even discussing this trade speaks volumes to me at the horrendous holes we have at center. The Ducks are obviously trying to exploit our weakness here and I hope that management don't panic and pull of a trade like this. I get the feeling that people here are excited about this trade based on name recognition only, and that the attach the value of 2009 Getzlaf to the current player. So far this year (and parts of last year) Getzlaf is the Ducks version of Derek Roy, granted bigger and more physical, but with the same burning desire to win and carry the team... There's a reason why the Ducks are playing absolutely horrible this year, and it's pretty much the exact same situation as in Buffalo. There are no one to step up and lead the team. I highly doubt that a player like Getzlaf will step into the Sabres locker room and shake things up. Getz pretty much rode the coat tails of Corey Perry last year, with Perry returning to normal this year Getzlaf's game is getting exposed. This is double true for Bobby Ryan by the way who is a terrible player, basically the exact same type of player as Stafford, with less upside. To look a little further north. The LA Kings had to pay over $7.5 a year to sign Drew Doughty, a player I feel is a lesser player than Tyler Myers. We have Myers locked up for almost a decade at $5.5. That is an absolute steal. To me there is absolutely no way you trade that for Getzlaf's short contract when there is nothing to indicate that Getzlaf will be more than a modest upgrade. Finally, to the people touting McNabb as Myers equal: Getzlaf for Myers hurts, but at least I can see why the deal is being discussed and how people have different opinions of the deal. Consider for a second a McNabb for Getzlaf deal. Does it make sense? If Myers and McNabb are basically equally valuable, that trade would make as much sense, right? In reality such a trade is ludicrous. This is good insight. While we'd welcome Derek Roy in a bigger/physical role I wouldn't want that while giving up Myers. Finally, yea.. I would compare Finley with Chara.. and I hope he is like that. Until then Myers is his own making..
Randall Flagg Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 If a player has 27 points and a -17 rating and is considered top five of his position, then roy with 24 points and a better plus minus must be a top eight or nine center, by that logic, so what are we complaining about with Roy ;)
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Koivu is the best center on the Ducks, I don't think there's any debating that. Yet I read that Gezlaf for Myers is a 'our best player for your best player' type deal. In Anaheim the fans are getting on Getzlaf for lack of effort, being to comfortable, no fire in the belly, being too careless with the puck, not responding to being moved of the top line, not comfortable playing with the 'C',... Does it sound familiar? The Ducks are in a pretty similar spot as the Sabres right now, and Ryan Getzlaf is not doing anything to carry the team. I don't know if being traded to Buffalo would rekindle his spirit, but is Myers worth that gamble?
thesportsbuff Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Koivu is the best center on the Ducks, I don't think there's any debating that. Yet I read that Gezlaf for Myers is a 'our best player for your best player' type deal. In Anaheim the fans are getting on Getzlaf for lack of effort, being to comfortable, no fire in the belly, being too careless with the puck, not responding to being moved of the top line, not comfortable playing with the 'C',... Does it sound familiar? The Ducks are in a pretty similar spot as the Sabres right now, and Ryan Getzlaf is not doing anything to carry the team. I don't know if being traded to Buffalo would rekindle his spirit, but is Myers worth that gamble? Maybe not, and the more I hear about Getzlaf's struggles, the more I'm second guessing my original stance on the proposed trade. But that said, whoever said Bobby Ryan is Anaheim's of equivalent of Drew Stafford is out of their mind. Three straight 30 goal seasons and roughly on pace for a 4th straight... no... that's not Drew Stafford lol
TheChimp Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Do you guys really not have other avatars you can use????? :blink: Not happy with Myers' play for a while now, but I blame that on the coaching. But since the coach ain't goin' anywhere, confirmed just yesterday by Pegula, I'm at a loss because I wanted to see ALL of these guys under a new management team. Year after year, we see "potential" turn into reality and that reality, to a man, looks strikingly like underachievement and complacency. Drew Stafford was just quoted as stating that his team had to figure out a way to "crawl" back into the playoff mix. His once-infectiously energetic and fiery coach just today just said that his team, now that they have a good deal of their starters back, "aren't gonna blow anybody out, but should win some games" (paraphrased but close enough). Anyone else see the relationship between the two statements? Anyone remember when Lindy stood at the podium after Briere and Drury were lost to other clubs in maybe the most colossal GMing blunder in modern sports history and intoned that he wasn't sure that even HE wanted to be back the next season? Look at what's happened since then. Look at Lindy's attitude since then. And look at the way the team reacted to Miller getting steamrolled. Honestly, if you like other players in the league, you don't WANT them anywhere near this suicide machine.
LaFontaineToMogilny Posted January 13, 2012 Report Posted January 13, 2012 Maybe not, and the more I hear about Getzlaf's struggles, the more I'm second guessing my original stance on the proposed trade. But that said, whoever said Bobby Ryan is Anaheim's of equivalent of Drew Stafford is out of their mind. Three straight 30 goal seasons and roughly on pace for a 4th straight... no... that's not Drew Stafford lol It was me comparing Ryan to Stafford, so if I am out of my mind you should also disregard my view of Getzlaf I think Ryan is very similar to Stafford, and still stand by it. He has benefited from playing with Perry and Getzlaf, but he has many of the same flaws as Stafford. Doesn't backcheck, is a streaky finisher, has great offensive talent but doesn't give a consistent effort, and not worth his contract. That is the assessment fans in Anaheim give of Bobby Ryan. In fact, I would say that Getzlaf and Ryan are the Ducks carbon copy of Roy and Stafford. That said, I wouldn't hesitate to pull a Roy and Stafford for Getzlaf and Ryan deal :lol: .
rickshaw Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 Big centers may be tough to find, but big, mobile defense are even harder to come by. If the Sabres give up on Myers at this stage of the game, then I'll give up on them so to speak. This guy is 22 years old on the 1st of next month and people are already to give up on him? I'd love to know the ages of the people willing to give up on him as opposed to the ages of those who don't want to. I've seen it far too often in my lifetime where a team gave up a young dman and lived to regret it for decades. I can guarantee you this. If Darcy picked up the phone and had every other gm on the line, they'd all say yes to Myers being on their team. Every last one of them.
RazielSabre Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 Big centers may be tough to find, but big, mobile defense are even harder to come by. If the Sabres give up on Myers at this stage of the game, then I'll give up on them so to speak. This guy is 22 years old on the 1st of next month and people are already to give up on him? I'd love to know the ages of the people willing to give up on him as opposed to the ages of those who don't want to. I've seen it far too often in my lifetime where a team gave up a young dman and lived to regret it for decades. I can guarantee you this. If Darcy picked up the phone and had every other gm on the line, they'd all say yes to Myers being on their team. Every last one of them. He was over the hill at 14, everyone knew that. :P
HopefulFuture Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 If anyone caught the Ducks - Oilers game you would have caught Mark Spector's comment about discussions Ducks GM Bob Murray had with Sabres GM Darcy Regier about the possibility of moving Miller. No names on the Ducks side were mentioned by Murray, but it was speculated by Spector that a Hiller/Ryan package for Miller+ was most likely the central components discussed. Not knowing a great deal about Spector but it was an intermission telecast, so I'm guessing he has some credibility.
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 If anyone caught the Ducks - Oilers game you would have caught Mark Spector's comment about discussions Ducks GM Bob Murray had with Sabres GM Darcy Regier about the possibility of moving Miller. No names on the Ducks side were mentioned by Murray, but it was speculated by Spector that a Hiller/Ryan package for Miller+ was most likely the central components discussed. Not knowing a great deal about Spector but it was an intermission telecast, so I'm guessing he has some credibility. Interesting
apuszczalowski Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 Those weren't change of scenery deals. Torres and Moore were rentals, moved because their contracts were about to expire. Bernier was an NHL ready prospect, thrown in as a sweetener along with the 1st round pick. In terms of a "change of scenery" type guy that Darcy brought in, Briere was probably the most recent move of that type that Darcy made. calling them rentals makes it any better???????
Andrew Amerk Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 Voted no to the trade Remember Getzlaf played his whole career in the western conference. As a whole the western conference competion play a more open game. I don't know what kind of numbers a center can put up over here. Myers is a proven commodity in as far as he is very good and 21 yrs old. Getzlaf in the East=Unproven. A different point on the same note, I have a hard time beliving a player like Roy has no interest from any team especially out west where that style might suit him better. Calgary took Cammalari back. Also on the McNabb front, some of the same people who are destroying Grags, probably gave him similar amounts of praise after about as many games. The Western Conference is supposedly a more rough and tumble one than the Eastern Conference, according to certain people on this board. You must have missed the memo.
RazielSabre Posted January 14, 2012 Report Posted January 14, 2012 The Western Conference is supposedly a more rough and tumble one than the Eastern Conference, according to certain people on this board. You must have missed the memo. What inbred half-wit said that? :blink: I'm sure Roy gets interest, the guy is valuable. Judging by Regiers comments yesterday I think people are trying to pick are players for picks at the moment and his having none of it. I'd want a decent return for Roy, a reasonable 2nd line center, with potential.
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