LabattBlue Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Myers is just ridicuously overvalued here by some. I am not ready to send him packing for a bag of pucks, but if the right deal came along, he should not be untouchable. There is a big difference between talking about trading an All-Star/Norris Trophy finalist versus someone who MAY OR MAY NOT reach that level in the future. We wouldn't be trading the former, it would be the latter.
TrueBlueGED Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Myers is just ridicuously overvalued here by some. I am not ready to send him packing for a bag of pucks, but if the right deal came along, he should not be untouchable. There is a big difference between talking about trading an All-Star/Norris Trophy finalist versus someone who MAY OR MAY NOT reach that level in the future. We wouldn't be trading the former, it would be the latter. That's part of running a hockey team though, for some guys there is no "right deal." A good GM is able to identify them before they become truly elite. Does anybody think Philly got fleeced by LA because Richards is currently better than Schenn? In a couple seasons I think the consensus will be that the Kings made a panic "win now" move, but was ultimately the wrong thing to do. Another example is the Kessel trade which ultimately landed Seguin in Boston. Boston valued two potentially top 5 first rounders more than a proven 40 goal scorer. Gamble? Yes. But as great as Kessel has been this year, is there a single poster here who would rather have him than Seguin over the next 10 years? I'm taking the chance that Myers realizes his true potential. It's a chance, I'm taking a risk, especially if he can bring in a proven #1 center like Getzlaf. But that does not mean I'm overvaluing him--it's a calculated risk. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, acquiring Getzlaf is also a calculated risk. I could argue that trading a potential Norris winner for a fringe top-10 center who may or may not regain form is overvaluing Getzlaf. Being a GM is all about risk management, and the good GMs win more bets than they lose. And frankly, if the Ducks are willing to trade Getzlaf straight up for Myers, maybe Myers is worth what a lot of us think he is and is not being overvalued.
Who Else? Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 It was nice talking non-Sabre specific hockey for awhile. There are truly other teams and players that are interesting.
apuszczalowski Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 That's part of running a hockey team though, for some guys there is no "right deal." A good GM is able to identify them before they become truly elite. Does anybody think Philly got fleeced by LA because Richards is currently better than Schenn? In a couple seasons I think the consensus will be that the Kings made a panic "win now" move, but was ultimately the wrong thing to do. Another example is the Kessel trade which ultimately landed Seguin in Boston. Boston valued two potentially top 5 first rounders more than a proven 40 goal scorer. Gamble? Yes. But as great as Kessel has been this year, is there a single poster here who would rather have him than Seguin over the next 10 years? I'm taking the chance that Myers realizes his true potential. It's a chance, I'm taking a risk, especially if he can bring in a proven #1 center like Getzlaf. But that does not mean I'm overvaluing him--it's a calculated risk. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, acquiring Getzlaf is also a calculated risk. I could argue that trading a potential Norris winner for a fringe top-10 center who may or may not regain form is overvaluing Getzlaf. Being a GM is all about risk management, and the good GMs win more bets than they lose. And frankly, if the Ducks are willing to trade Getzlaf straight up for Myers, maybe Myers is worth what a lot of us think he is and is not being overvalued. If the trade is straight up Seguin vs Kessel, then I say the Leafs got the win there, but throw in the other 1st and the 2nd Boston received and I say its a wash right now. Being a GM is always about taking risks, some are more risk takers then others. Usually the ones that succeed are the ones that are not afraid to take big risks for big rewards. Unfortunatly, here in buffalo, our GM would fine penny slots to be too much of a risk to gamble on
Weave Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 I guess I don't equate penalty minutes with physical aggression. I'm sure there's some correlation, but I don't think penalty minutes=toughness/aggression. For his career, Chara has averaged double the penalty minutes of Shea Weber. I don't think anybody would call Weber soft. Chara's penalty minutes are way lower in Boston than in Ottawa, just glancing at the numbers he's averaging about 70 fewer penalty minutes per season than in Ottawa. Weber for his career is averaging 50-60 minutes per season, Myers is around 40. Myers has gotten more physical, and I think it's pretty clear his most impactful hockey is played when he is playing physical. He's even admitted that himself, so I think it's likely that as he matures both physically and mentally that he becomes a more consistent physical presence. I don't necessarily believe he'll become Chara, but I think there's more to come than what we've seen. Does fighting majors imply toughness and aggression to you? In Chara's rookie year he had 4 fighting majors, all against established NHL goons. He was 21 at the time. And he's had 9 and 10 fight seasons. Chara has had an aggressive streak right from day 1 that Myers has not shown much of. And Shea Weber already has 16 fighting majors under his belt in 3 NHL seasons. I'm not suggesting that Myers won't get more physical as he gets older. But comparison's to Chara and Weber re: aggression don't reflect well on Myers. Both of those players were/are showing a great deal more aggression and physicality at 21 than Myers is showing now. Myers has yet to get in his first NHL fight and he's got 3 seasons in the NHL now. He's just not that aggressive. Really, there is nothing wrong with that. He is big and strong enough to play a physical positioning game and win those battles. He can aggressively challenge opponents in the D zone because he has such a huge reach and size advantage. He uses his size to help rub guys out and pin them along the boards very effectively. And he can use those traits to become a top flight (who knows, maybe even elite some day) defenseman. But if you are expecting Tyler Myers to develop some sort of mean streak and become an intimidating force ala Chara, Phaneuf, Weber as he gets older then I suspect you are going to be disappointed in Mr. Myers. It just isn't part of his makeup.
TrueBlueGED Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 If the trade is straight up Seguin vs Kessel, then I say the Leafs got the win there, but throw in the other 1st and the 2nd Boston received and I say its a wash right now. Being a GM is always about taking risks, some are more risk takers then others. Usually the ones that succeed are the ones that are not afraid to take big risks for big rewards. Unfortunatly, here in buffalo, our GM would fine penny slots to be too much of a risk to gamble on We can agree to disagree on Kessel/Seguin, as I think Boston clearly won even without the other pick. As far as Darcy taking risks, he's definitely risk-averse with trades, but even the biggest Myers supporter (I'm one of them) acknowledges that making him untouchable when he can return Getzlaf, is a risk. He takes risks that his own guys will develop into what he believes they can. Hell even this year he took a huge gamble that Leino could be a top 6 center and improve offensively over what he did in Philly. I think most people think risk-taking involves always making splashy trades, but the opposite is also true. I think Darcy should be fired, it's well-earned, and part of that is the risks he took backfired. @ Weave: I agree with everything you said. I don't expect Myers to become Chara or Pronger, but I do think he will be a consistent physical presence without slashing/hacking/cross-checking his way to intimidation. Guys may not be afraid of getting injured or cheap-shot when he's out there, but in a way being driven into the boards by a giant is not much better than being cross-checked to the ice by one. Again, the raw intimidation may not be there, but I don't think players will exactly look forward to battling him in years to come. In general I think Myers' style is more Niedermayer/Lidstrom than Chara/Stevens/Pronger.
beerme1 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 And quite simply put, it's a deal that is impossible for Buffalo to make. The Sabres cannot take on a dime in salary. Myers' cap hit is $1.3 million and Getzlaf's is at $5.325. THE END. While it may not mean ###### on next years cap, the Sabres are not in a position to do this trade this year unless they also dump Roy for a bathroom attendant.
shrader Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 THE END. While it may not mean ###### on next years cap, the Sabres are not in a position to do this trade this year unless they also dump Roy for a bathroom attendant. And that dump of Roy would need to happen first. So if all of a sudden that kind of deal is made, then we can stop and think about Getzlaf-Myers.
LabattBlue Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Being a GM is always about taking risks, some are more risk takers then others. Usually the ones that succeed are the ones that are not afraid to take big risks for big rewards. Unfortunatly, here in buffalo, our GM would fine penny slots to be too much of a risk to gamble on :thumbsup:
TheChimp Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Sooo, everybody would be OK trading away our most talented players while keeping Lindy and Darcy around, yes? Just making sure I'm not jumping to conclusions here.
Weave Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Sooo, everybody would be OK trading away our most talented players while keeping Lindy and Darcy around, yes? Just making sure I'm not jumping to conclusions here. you are. this thread was about a specific player. there is plenty of anti-darcy chatter to keep me occupied already on the front page.
Two or less Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 THE END. While it may not mean ###### on next years cap, the Sabres are not in a position to do this trade this year unless they also dump Roy for a bathroom attendant. The end? You make it sound like General managers have never used creativity to make trades. Besides the obvious dumps of Boyes for a pick or Roy for something, how about Myers $1.3 and Stafford $4 for Getzlaf.... ? Just because you heard 2 names in an article, doesn't mean they can make it a packaged deal.
Bmwolf21 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 John Vogl: @BuffNewsVoglJohn Vogl Sabres GM Darcy Regier, who made 12 trades in his first two years, has made 11 in the last 4 1/2 seasons.
SDS Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 John Vogl: @BuffNewsVoglJohn Vogl Sabres GM Darcy Regier, who made 12 trades in his first two years, has made 11 in the last 4 1/2 seasons. salary cap.... hello.
Bmwolf21 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 salary cap.... hello. I'm sure that's part of it.
TheChimp Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 you are. this thread was about a specific player. there is plenty of anti-darcy chatter to keep me occupied already on the front page. That didn't answer my question. But I'll take it that my comments are being perceived as raining on your parade and respectfully be on my way. Carry on.
Weave Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 That didn't answer my question. But I'll take it that my comments are being perceived as raining on your parade and respectfully be on my way. Carry on. LOL ain't no parade here.
HopefulFuture Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 salary cap.... hello. Very good point SDS. By the way, here is a little information from a credible reporting source. [A trade] will be the next move for the Buffalo Sabres if Darcy Regier has his way.* I’ve talked to other teams around the league over the last week.* Regier is doing his homework.* He’s talking trade with teams.* What he’d like to do is move a top 6 forward in return for a top 6 forward.* Easier said than done.* Drew Stafford, Derek Roy, Brad Boyes - those are names that I’ve been told are in play for the Buffalo Sabres.* Not every team in the league is going to want to move a top 6 for a top 6, but that’s what he’s trying to do. Per LeBrun
SportsFan88 Posted January 18, 2012 Report Posted January 18, 2012 Sooo, everybody would be OK trading away our most talented players while keeping Lindy and Darcy around, yes? Just making sure I'm not jumping to conclusions here. Would be for getting rid of those players and the GM and Coach.
drnkirishone Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 I don't recall many young defensemen making their defensive partner better. Normally that happens with playing in the league for a bit. Didn't lidstrom play with Coffey and Murphy at different points when he first started?
LGR4GM Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Unless Anaheim takes staff an tosses in a first round pick this deal sucks and only idiots who see getzlaf as a savior would make this pathetic one sided save
Weave Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Unless Anaheim takes staff an tosses in a first round pick this deal sucks and only idiots who see getzlaf as a savior would make this pathetic one sided save Please stop calling people who disagree with you idiots. Noone is going around throwing that stuff your way.
Weave Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 If only that was true. ^ If someone has, direct it at them instead of throwing garbage at the whole other side of the discussion.
LGR4GM Posted January 19, 2012 Report Posted January 19, 2012 Very well but any trade of Myers for someone of getzlafs caliber is foolish I'm sorry but that's the truth and the only reason we are talking about it is cuz rrgier can't manage a team effectively
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