Are the Sabres in Crisis?

[nfreeman]

On the "likable" point: one thing that occurred to me during the Winnipeg game is that whenever the TV shows Vanek on the bench, he's always grimacing and cursing over the goal he just missed. He never seems to be yukking it up with the boys or even smiling.

 

It's probably unfair, since we only see these shots for a few seconds of each game, but after watching 24/7 on HBO, it makes me wonder about whether there is a positive cameraderie vibe on this team (I realize that this isn't going to be the case during a streak like we're seeing now) and if not whether that affects the results on the ice. If the best and highest-paid forward on the team is always grim and PO'd, does that reduce the job satisfaction level of his teammates?

[neverenough]

Weirdly the same boat. I got laid off before Christmas so I can drop in at skate and shoot every day if I want. And Amerks games are much more fun for the girlfriend and I than the Sabres. Likable guys and good fans. What I want the Sabres to be.

What a time to get laid off,that sucks man.

[darksabre]

On the "likable" point: one thing that occurred to me during the Winnipeg game is that whenever the TV shows Vanek on the bench, he's always grimacing and cursing over the goal he just missed. He never seems to be yukking it up with the boys or even smiling.

 

It's probably unfair, since we only see these shots for a few seconds of each game, but after watching 24/7 on HBO, it makes me wonder about whether there is a positive cameraderie vibe on this team (I realize that this isn't going to be the case during a streak like we're seeing now) and if not whether that affects the results on the ice. If the best and highest-paid forward on the team is always grim and PO'd, does that reduce the job satisfaction level of his teammates?

 

I don't know, I think maybe I wish other guys on the team were as disappointed as Vanek is every time they don't score. I think Vanek expects to score every time and he feels he has to. If other guys were as competitive as him, maybe he'd have someone to talk to? He needs a buddy, someone to tell him "Hey we'll go out there next shift and get one." I think a lot of these guys don't take it as personally as Vanek does.

 

What a time to get laid off,that sucks man.

 

Eh it's not so bad, I'm a young guy so I can manage. Thanks for the kind words though.

[ROCBuffalo]

There is no other person that I would want to buy the sabres. Someone who is willing to spend the money on a team, passion for the club, and a great character. I dont know what else you could want out of an owner except for him. (Not looking for the answer of firing ruff.)

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

There is no other person that I would want to buy the sabres. Someone who is willing to spend the money on a team, passion for the club, and a great character. I dont know what else you could want out of an owner except for him. (Not looking for the answer of firing ruff.)

 

I didn't post this to be anti-Pegula. If anything he is the lone good guy left in this thing and I want to keep it that way. I posted it to get a true feel from the fanbase. Not to lay blame. I would like to hear him say something to us, but he has the right to be quiet on things.

 

Sabres.com can't post this poll.........but they can read what passionate fans think.

 

When 9 of 10 say the team is in crisis..........

 

2-1 for Pegula talking isn't overwhelming. Maybe the smart move is to stay quiet, but have his finger on the nuke button over the next 2 weeks. If they go 2-5, it is going to be a disaster around town.

[SportsFan88]

d4rk and aud smell: I am sadly also right near that point. I find myself looking forward to Jackals games (nine straight wins) more than Sabres games. At least my hours got cut back and I can actually play hockey again.

 

After the last 7 years being no fun I say it's about damn time we have something exciting to watch in this city regarding our team!

 

This team is in Crisis, because over the past few games they didnot look like a team that was underachieving. They looked liked they belonged with Carolina Edmonton and Winnipeg at the bottom of the league. They also prove they do not belong on the same ice with the likes of the Bruins Flyers or Rangers.

 

Winnipeg is near the bottom of the league??? Pretty sure they are ahead of Buffalo and have like 45 points, very close to a playoff spot. They are surprisingly decent.

[That Aud Smell]

On the "likable" point: one thing that occurred to me during the Winnipeg game is that whenever the TV shows Vanek on the bench, he's always grimacing and cursing over the goal he just missed. He never seems to be yukking it up with the boys or even smiling.

 

It's probably unfair, since we only see these shots for a few seconds of each game, but after watching 24/7 on HBO, it makes me wonder about whether there is a positive cameraderie vibe on this team (I realize that this isn't going to be the case during a streak like we're seeing now) and if not whether that affects the results on the ice. If the best and highest-paid forward on the team is always grim and PO'd, does that reduce the job satisfaction level of his teammates?

 

i think this is a more than fair point.

 

it's not the vanek can't be part of a team with good chemistry, but he is, by his very nature, an intense outlier of a guy; he is not going to be a catalyst for team chemistry, nor is he going to provide the needed activation energy -- and with that i will tap out on the chemistry metaphor. where's biodork?

 

the fellas on the team who do seem to have chemistry have a chemistry that i wish the team would lose.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

i think this is a more than fair point.

 

it's not the vanek can't be part of a team with good chemistry, but he is, by his very nature, an intense outlier of a guy; he is not going to be a catalyst for team chemistry, nor is he going to provide the needed activation energy -- and with that i will tap out on the chemistry metaphor. where's biodork?

 

the fellas on the team who do seem to have chemistry have a chemistry that i wish the team would lose.

 

Chemistry is probably the one thing more important in Hockey than the other major sports when forming a team. I think football has a simple equation......Athletic ability X Football IQ + 10-15% bonus for Physical and Mental toughness. That's why Belicheck is a master and so was Polian. It isn't about pure skill...it is about finding the guys with the best skill/intelligence combo who are willing to gut it out. The Bills have figured that simple formula out recently and that is why I am so high on their chances going forward. Right now they have a good base of decent athletes who are smart and tough. They just have to keep adding better athletes to the mix and they will get there in the next year or two, I am all-in.

 

Hockey has so much to do with chemistry and confidence and mental toughness. We have plenty of guys who can skate and have skill, but are so lacking in the other aspects. The only guys who seem to be strong willed have little talent, minus maybe a Gerbe, or Weber or Regehr.

[Who Else?]

After the last 7 years being no fun I say it's about damn time we have something exciting to watch in this city regarding our team!

 

 

 

Winnipeg is near the bottom of the league??? Pretty sure they are ahead of Buffalo and have like 45 points, very close to a playoff spot. They are surprisingly decent.

 

Great for the Jets. Ninth is good for them, but not good enough for the team that's going to win the cup in the next three years.

 

Also remember where the Jets came from. The Thrashers had great first halves only to become no contenders in the second.

 

I understand the Sabres need to pass them on the way, but that hopefully willnever be the goal. (Be as good as 9th place.)

[SportsFan88]

Great for the Jets. Ninth is good for them, but not good enough for the team that's going to win the cup in the next three years.

 

Also remember where the Jets came from. The Thrashers had great first halves only to become no contenders in the second.

 

I understand the Sabres need to pass them on the way, but that hopefully willnever be the goal. (Be as good as 9th place.)

 

Fair, just pointing it out. lol.

 

The three year plan is a nice goal to have, just not sure I see it happening with some guys on the team now. Personally I would like to see Vanek traded for pieces that can make them a better overall team. While the guy is talented I can't say he makes them better with him on the team. He will get his points but for his talent he vastly underachieves, I think he kind of holds them back in some respects

[apuszczalowski]

Crisis/shambles/trouble of not making the playoffs/etc

 

Call it what you want, but however you want to call it, its not good.

 

They have fans booking bus/train/plane tickets out of town for the coach because coaching changes equal turnarounds that lead to Stanley Cups (Pittsburgh did it!)

 

They have fans wanting the starting goalie moved because a solid backup goalie who can come in and be relied on to give the starter a breather has come in and played well making the starter expendable

 

They have a long list of other "core" players that fans want to see moved

 

The team is on the outside looking in (from far back) at the playoffs right now and only falling behind more every week

 

and

 

The proud fan base whom most believed they were the greatest, are now being told the arena sounds like a funeral home

 

 

The 3 year plan is looking like it may take a little longer them expected to achieve.............

[BMWR100RT]

It's Pominville not Pommenville. And he's one of the guys that does show heart. Every shift. Every night.

 

Typed from remote from Gotomypc on a remote tablet, and you are right about his effort. I just don't know, but he just seems too timid to lead. I think the team play has been totally uninspiring, and the hallmark of good leadership is to hold people accountable. I'm not seeing that. But whatever it comes from, something has to improve. To think we went from Pegulamania to cellar dwellers is sad. Just saying.

[qwksndmonster]

I don't know, I think maybe I wish other guys on the team were as disappointed as Vanek is every time they don't score. I think Vanek expects to score every time and he feels he has to. If other guys were as competitive as him, maybe he'd have someone to talk to? He needs a buddy, someone to tell him "Hey we'll go out there next shift and get one." I think a lot of these guys don't take it as personally as Vanek does.

I always notice this as well. Reminds me of Brian Moorman after he has a bad punt. And it's not really the same boat, because I'm still in high school and my part-time retail job just dropped from 30-40 hour weeks to 10 hour weeks.

[SportsFan88]

Crisis/shambles/trouble of not making the playoffs/etc

 

Call it what you want, but however you want to call it, its not good.

 

They have fans booking bus/train/plane tickets out of town for the coach because coaching changes equal turnarounds that lead to Stanley Cups (Pittsburgh did it!)

 

They have fans wanting the starting goalie moved because a solid backup goalie who can come in and be relied on to give the starter a breather has come in and played well making the starter expendable

 

They have a long list of other "core" players that fans want to see moved

 

The team is on the outside looking in (from far back) at the playoffs right now and only falling behind more every week

 

and

 

The proud fan base whom most believed they were the greatest, are now being told the arena sounds like a funeral home

 

 

The 3 year plan is looking like it may take a little longer them expected to achieve.............

 

Not sure if that was meant to be sarcastic or a joke. I don't think it was as much Bylsma as much as the talent he had to work with in having 2 superstars.

[darksabre]

 

I always notice this as well. Reminds me of Brian Moorman after he has a bad punt. And it's not really the same boat, because I'm still in high school and my part-time retail job just dropped from 30-40 hour weeks to 10 hour weeks.

 

Sorry to hear that.

[LGR4GM]

This should sum up the Sabres team

"Thomas Vanek, who joins captain Jason Pominville as the only two Sabres in the top 107 of league scoring."

 

Back in 2006 they had 5 players with 20+ goals (Briere, Drury, Afinogenov, Kotalik, Vanek)

In 2007 they had 6 players with 20+ goals (Briere, Drury, Afinogenov, Vanek, Pommers, Roy)

 

Now I know the season is not over yet but I find it extremely telling that we have not won a game in which we have scored 2 or less goals since December 9 and that we only have 2 players on our entire roster in the top 107 in pts in the NHL. Simply put the team is failing because instead of having 3 scoring lines we 2/3 of 1 scoring line. Currently the Sabres have only 2 players with more than 25 pts and only 5 players with at least 20pts and we are 41 games into a season (HALFWAY). Vanek and Pommers have accumulated 83 pts and the other 20 players on the roster have accumlated 199pts. So just like goals, 2 players on a team are producing 30% of the points (almost).

 

Let me just stick to goals for a second. The Sabres Goals Per Game Average (GPGA)

In 2006: 3.43 gpga

In 2007: 3.76 gpga

In 2012: 2.61 gpga (extrapolating forward from 41 games to 82)

 

Now the Goals Against Average (GAA) was:

In 2006: 2.91 gaa

In 2007: 2.95 gaa

In 2011: 2.95 gaa (extrapolating forward from 41 games to 82)

 

So what do all these numbers mean? Well they mean that We (the Sabres) are allowing the typical number of goals in that we did during our previous 2 best years post lockout. But we are averaging 1 less goal per game then we did back then. Resulting in a win percentage of:

2006: 68%

2007: 69%

2012: 50%

or 18-19% fewer wins with only a 1gpga difference. (Note I took OTL and divided them in Half adding that to the total wins)

 

What the hell am I getting at? If your defense and goaltending are as good as they were in 06 and 07 and you came close but your offense can't produce anwheres near the same rate, maybe its time to go out and find some different offensive players to help you make up that differential...

 

 

 

Paging Darcy Regier.... Darcy Regier to the nearest white courtesy phone, thank you.

[LGR4GM]

I figured I should also check the league wide difference in Goals Per Season to see if the Sabres are in line with the rest of league (there has been a decline in goals per season which I assume we have all noticed)

 

2012: 6850 Total Goals (8% decrease from 06 and 3% decrease from 07)

2007: 7082 Total Goals (5% decrease from 06)

2006: 7443 Total Goals

 

The Sabres goals per season avearges using 2006 as the baseline

2012: 214goals = 76%

2007: 308goals = 110%

2006: 281goals = 100%

or in other words where as the league has dropped in goals a season by 8% from 06 to the present the sabres have dropped 24% or 3 times the league average this season in goals scored compared to their 06 campaign and 34% since their 07 President's trophy season.

 

 

Note: All 2011-2012 season numbers based off of extrapolating out at the current halfway point of the season (I understand that not all teams have played 41 games).

[obstructedorangeseats]

Paging Darcy Regier.... Darcy Regier to the nearest white courtesy phone, thank you.

 

No! The white phone!

[fan2456]

This should sum up the Sabres team

"Thomas Vanek, who joins captain Jason Pominville as the only two Sabres in the top 107 of league scoring."

 

Back in 2006 they had 5 players with 20+ goals (Briere, Drury, Afinogenov, Kotalik, Vanek)

In 2007 they had 6 players with 20+ goals (Briere, Drury, Afinogenov, Vanek, Pommers, Roy)

 

Now I know the season is not over yet but I find it extremely telling that we have not won a game in which we have scored 2 or less goals since December 9 and that we only have 2 players on our entire roster in the top 107 in pts in the NHL. Simply put the team is failing because instead of having 3 scoring lines we 2/3 of 1 scoring line. Currently the Sabres have only 2 players with more than 25 pts and only 5 players with at least 20pts and we are 41 games into a season (HALFWAY). Vanek and Pommers have accumulated 83 pts and the other 20 players on the roster have accumlated 199pts. So just like goals, 2 players on a team are producing 30% of the points (almost).

 

Let me just stick to goals for a second. The Sabres Goals Per Game Average (GPGA)

In 2006: 3.43 gpga

In 2007: 3.76 gpga

In 2012: 2.61 gpga (extrapolating forward from 41 games to 82)

 

Now the Goals Against Average (GAA) was:

In 2006: 2.91 gaa

In 2007: 2.95 gaa

In 2011: 2.95 gaa (extrapolating forward from 41 games to 82)

 

So what do all these numbers mean? Well they mean that We (the Sabres) are allowing the typical number of goals in that we did during our previous 2 best years post lockout. But we are averaging 1 less goal per game then we did back then. Resulting in a win percentage of:

2006: 68%

2007: 69%

2012: 50%

or 18-19% fewer wins with only a 1gpga difference. (Note I took OTL and divided them in Half adding that to the total wins)

 

What the hell am I getting at? If your defense and goaltending are as good as they were in 06 and 07 and you came close but your offense can't produce anwheres near the same rate, maybe its time to go out and find some different offensive players to help you make up that differential...

 

 

 

Paging Darcy Regier.... Darcy Regier to the nearest white courtesy phone, thank you.

 

I've watched this team for 41 years, 31 as a season ticket holder. 2006 and 2007 offensive numbers mean nothing. It was totally differentt enfrorcement of the rule book. Small, soft and fast worked. It's back to an impeding league. We are in general soft or too small to win battles, even if the little guys have the heart. 30-40 lbs. hanging on you makes a difference. Regier has finally drafted bigger over the last few years, but he came very late to the realization of what this league is AGAIN. (i.e. pre-lockout) Then he does things like bring in Boyes and extend Stafford and Gerbe. He still doesn't get it!!!!! He has to go and someone who understands this league needs to be brought in. I think this team would be competive under the 2006 rule enforcement, but unfortunately,it is 2012.

[LGR4GM]

I've watched this team for 41 years, 31 as a season ticket holder. 2006 and 2007 offensive numbers mean nothing. It was totally differentt enfrorcement of the rule book. Small, soft and fast worked. It's back to an impeding league. We are in general soft or too small to win battles, even if the little guys have the heart. 30-40 lbs. hanging on you makes a difference. Regier has finally drafted bigger over the last few years, but he came very late to the realization of what this league is AGAIN. (i.e. pre-lockout) Then he does things like bring in Boyes and extend Stafford and Gerbe. He still doesn't get it!!!!! He has to go and someone who understands this league needs to be brought in. I think this team would be competive under the 2006 rule enforcement, but unfortunately,it is 2012.

Not to be rude but you missed the point completely. It has nothing to do with the actual physical make up of the team in 06 versus 12, it has to do with the fact statistically the Sabres are no longer sustaining and offensive output that can win games in comparison to the number of goals they are allowing (which is statistically the same). It was demonstrating the drop from back then to now in comparison with the rest of the league. I am quite aware that having Stafford, Boyes, Gerbe, Ennis, Roy is one of the issues because none of these guys is either physical or a big enough body to stand up to the other top teams in this league. There is more body to body contact, meaning larger players are needed like Kassian.

 

Bluntly put, this team is headed in the wrong direction and the ship is going down faster than the Hindenburg. Offensive numbers mean everything because this team is failing offensively. And If you noticed I broke down the statistical difference in the league for number of goals scored. A 8% drop in goals scored league wide but a 24% drop in goals for the sabres, yea that means something.

 

Regier has outstayed his welcome by 5 years and counting... Wonder when Pegs or Black will wake up and see that.

[qwksndmonster]

Sorry to hear that.

Nah, it's a good thing. Those long hours were killing me, and now I might actually get to watch some Sabres games live.

[darksabre]

 

Nah, it's a good thing. Those long hours were killing me, and now I might actually get to watch some Sabres games live.

 

Bright side :thumbsup:

[TheChimp]

We've hit a point where things are beyond slump stage. But maybe it's for the best. Some of you argue that making the playoffs just helps maintain the status quo. Well maybe a near-last place finish will start the process of change. First Darcy goes, then new GM replaces Ruff with his guy. And as a bonus: a high draft pick.

 

I'll be interested to see how active the Sabres are at the trade deadline. If we aren't it could be a sign that Darcy is done. (Why let a guy you are firing make a bunch of deals?)

 

PTR

:w00t: :w00t: :wub: OOH OOH OOH !! AH AH AH AH AH!! :w00t: :w00t: :wub:

[fan2456]

Not to be rude but you missed the point completely. It has nothing to do with the actual physical make up of the team in 06 versus 12, it has to do with the fact statistically the Sabres are no longer sustaining and offensive output that can win games in comparison to the number of goals they are allowing (which is statistically the same). It was demonstrating the drop from back then to now in comparison with the rest of the league. I am quite aware that having Stafford, Boyes, Gerbe, Ennis, Roy is one of the issues because none of these guys is either physical or a big enough body to stand up to the other top teams in this league. There is more body to body contact, meaning larger players are needed like Kassian.

 

Bluntly put, this team is headed in the wrong direction and the ship is going down faster than the Hindenburg. Offensive numbers mean everything because this team is failing offensively. And If you noticed I broke down the statistical difference in the league for number of goals scored. A 8% drop in goals scored league wide but a 24% drop in goals for the sabres, yea that means something.

 

Regier has outstayed his welcome by 5 years and counting... Wonder when Pegs or Black will wake up and see that.

 

Actually that was the point. In 06 you didn't have to win physical 1 on1 battles all over the ice to gain position to score or battle for the puck. And it's just not in the corners, it's fighting for position in front of both nets and on the back check. They called penalties then. You couldn't even hold up a forward on an icing call in 06. Small and/or soft doesn';t cut it anymore. We agree completely! Its the players REgier and Ruff put together that are the problem. I'm tired of killing the messengers(the players), when it is clearly the message(management).

[dEnnis the Menace]

No! The white phone!

 

NOT the fax machine Darcy...