Paul Hamilton: Two GMs tell him Darcy overvalues his players by quite a bit

Ghost of Dwight Drane · December 23, 2011

Ok. It's not easy to respond to a huge block of text, but I'll try:

(1) The Afi benching was smart. It got him to perform. I think we all remember his belly-slide to center ice against the Rags; in 15 years, it will be as celebrated as the Mayday goal is now.

(2) It should be obvious by now that letting Drury go was the smart move. Not so much for Briere.

(3) He parted with 3 of those "precious parts he couldn't part with"; WTF are you talking about?

(4) A team that wins a Presidents' Trophy doesn't usually look inward and say "hey, what the hell are we doing wrong?"

(5) I really hate saying this, but: if that 2007 team was so freaking awesome, and if that was really the last clear chance at winning it all, well, why NOT blow it up afterwards? I mean, they did NOT win it with Briere and Drury. Twice. It did NOT work. So, for all you people who love change, well, why would you have kept it constant?

(6) I still regret the loss of Briere, especially with what I know of the circumstances.

(7) MOST IMPORTANT: Without the injuries, and who the hell could have predicted them, there's a parade down Delaware in June '06. With Lindy in the lead, and in spite of Quinn. It never would have gotten to the 2007 shedding of talent.

I think you have no clue what I just wrote......hopefully someone can translate for you.

Eleven · December 23, 2011

I think you have no clue what I just wrote......hopefully someone can translate for you.

Or you could write clearly.

RazielSabre · December 23, 2011

Ok. It's not easy to respond to a huge block of text, but I'll try:

(1) The Afi benching was smart. It got him to perform. I think we all remember his belly-slide to center ice against the Rags; in 15 years, it will be as celebrated as the Mayday goal is now.

(2) It should be obvious by now that letting Drury go was the smart move. Not so much for Briere.

(3) He parted with 3 of those "precious parts he couldn't part with"; WTF are you talking about?

(4) A team that wins a Presidents' Trophy doesn't usually look inward and say "hey, what the hell are we doing wrong?"

(5) I really hate saying this, but: if that 2007 team was so freaking awesome, and if that was really the last clear chance at winning it all, well, why NOT blow it up afterwards? I mean, they did NOT win it with Briere and Drury. Twice. It did NOT work. So, for all you people who love change, well, why would you have kept it constant?

(6) I still regret the loss of Briere, especially with what I know of the circumstances.

(7) MOST IMPORTANT: Without the injuries, and who the hell could have predicted them, there's a parade down Delaware in June '06. With Lindy in the lead, and in spite of Quinn. It never would have gotten to the 2007 shedding of talent.

You guys realise that is the past and most people have learnt from it and moved on right?

Just of note I'd still rather have kept Drury over Briere, he was a clutch performer player. Maybe we wouldn't have struggled so mightily come playoff time these last couple of years with him, he always performed in the playoffs. Briere is good but there are a million of him out there.

LabattBlue · December 23, 2011

Briere is good but there are a million of him out there.

If this is true, I wish Darcy would rewrite history and trade for one again. :doh:

RazielSabre · December 23, 2011

If this is true, I wish Darcy would rewrite history and trade for one again. :doh:

Oh screw this, just check our Briere vs Roy for the 07-08, 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11 seasons.

Infact damn, the more I look into it Roy is quick a bit better than Briere.

deluca67 · December 23, 2011

If true, I don't find is surprising at all. Two things to take from this...

1. Darcy continues to adore the players he drafts/acquires.

2. He continues to be way too secure in his position as GM. Pegula and Black need to change that. He should be put on notice ASAP that at seasons end, injuries will not be used as an excuse.

Which is why IMO the problems go much deeper than a few injuries.

I believe it was during Pegula's press conference with the Buffalo News staff when Gleason brought up the idea that Regier has in the past been accused of not returning phone calls and is difficult to do business with by people around the NHL.

For years now the culture around the Buffalo Sabres seems to be based on excuse making. Regier and the Sabres are going to hold onto and nurture the injury excuse like a mother holding onto her newborn. It is an essential part of Regier's management style. Unfortunately for Sabre fans it seems Pegula and Black have bought into it.

LabattBlue · December 23, 2011

I'm too lazy to go through the posts and find out who said it recently, but I am ready to put the shackles back on Darcy, let the season play out as it may with the roster he so proudly put together, and fire his ass in April.

The only alternative is if the new GM they want to hire is on the market today. In that case, I deliver the pink slip via Fedex to Regier today by the disgruntled TV throwing Fedex guy, who then proceeds to give Regier a stern kick in the nuts.

deluca67 · December 23, 2011

I'm too lazy to go through the posts and find out who said it recently, but I am ready to put the shackles back on Darcy, let the season play out as it may with the roster he so proudly put together, and fire his ass in April.

The only alternative is if the new GM they want to hire is on the market today. In that case, I deliver the pink slip via Fedex to Regier today by the disgruntled TV throwing Fedex guy, who then proceeds to give Regier a stern kick in the nuts.

Sadly, the only "shackles" Regier has had in his 14+ year tenure are his own inadequacies. Nothing changes until Pegula realizes this. Until then this franchise will continue to tread water.

nfreeman · December 23, 2011

Explained, I hope, in PM. But that's it. It's a good source; Darcy was part and parcel of scuttling the Briere re-signing.

Now I'm in a killing rage.

Briere knew he was gone ahead of time.

That's what sent me over the edge. Not that he was gone, but that they knew he was off the table, and that they had yanked Drury around for weeks early in the year with his offer. Any rational human had to know that would not sit well with an honorable guy. They had to know there was a good chance Drury would walk as well. They knew 2007 was their last real shot, and they could have made 1 or 2 reasonable moves for grit at the deadline and not had to mortgage the future. Darcy comes out a few days after Afinigenov had broken his wrist and his timetable out entended into the playoffs, and says he will be back for the regular season...which made no sense. Then he says Connolly who had been out almost a full year would be back. They could have used that LTIR salary, then in the playoffs there would be no cap and EVERYONE could play. It was obvious Darcy said that to hamstring himself into not being able to use that cap space to get help. Any smart GM shuts up and at least looks at the option of using it. Afinigenov and Connolly came back for a grand total of 3 or 4 games, and Afinigenov got scratched in the playoffs. The precious pieces he couldn't part with...Paille, MacArthur, Paetch, hell Stafford, would have landed you Roberts and Guerin easily. It wasn't the fact that they didn't make a move in itself that is attrocious, it was the cowardly action of neutering yourself, which Darcy did. Sad.....to this day I swear I am the only one who ever brings this up.

Well, I think he said that because his bosses told him there would be no LTIR hanky-panky that resulted in additional cash outlays. I agree that a smart and FULLY BANKROLLED GM would have used it.

I do agree though that they knew it was their last real shot but didn't want to spend the money to improve their chances. But again I think that decision was not made by DR.

Briere is good but there are a million of him out there.

Oh screw this, just check our Briere vs Roy for the 07-08, 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11 seasons.

Infact damn, the more I look into it Roy is quick a bit better than Briere.

Are you on drugs?

deluca67 · December 23, 2011

Oh screw this, just check our Briere vs Roy for the 07-08, 08-09, 09-10 and 10-11 seasons.

Infact damn, the more I look into it Roy is quick a bit better than Briere.

I'll agree with this, taking contracts into account. Roy is the far greater value.

Weave · December 23, 2011

Are you on drugs?

I was trying to find a more diplomatic way of expressing the same. I'll just let your quote stand on its own.

I'll agree with this, taking contracts into account. Roy is the far greater value.

Until the first round of the playoffs start.

ColdBlueNorth · December 23, 2011

I certainly believe that.

Look how long it took to get Connolly out of here.

I see the same thing with Stafford and Roy, and Darcy seems to be trying to find the 2nd coming of Brier with his selections of tiny forwards like Ennis and Gerbe. Don't get me wrong, I love the heart those two play with, but one pint-sized agitator on a team is enough and it is far too easy to knock them off the puck.

I would love to see Darcy bring in some guys with grit and determination who are strong on the puck and jettison the floaters.

A little goal-tending on this team would go a long way towards making us look better; Ryan is struggling plain and simple. Then again, look at the shots against and give aways this team serves up... We need some skilled forwards who can actually forecheck and play more in the offensive zone, what we have is one line that can do that, or two when we call up the boys in Rochester, the rest put on the breaks well before contact.

LGR4GM · December 23, 2011

I was trying to find a more diplomatic way of expressing the same. I'll just let your quote stand on its own.

Until the first round of the playoffs start.

Since the Lockout:

Briere: 93pts in 91 playoff games for a total of 1.02ppga

Roy: 25pts in 41 playoff games for a total of 0.61ppga

here endeth the lesson.

1:50 mark...

Campy · December 23, 2011

If I may play devil's advocate for moment, would anyone here be happy with a trade of any players that brought back less than our perceived value of those players?

GO SABRES!!!

Good point. And perhaps these 2 GMs are making it public because they want more for less in deals they've been talking to Darcy about. Who knows? One thing I am 100% sure of though is that Darcy knows more about evaluating players than anyone on an internet message board.

K-9 · December 23, 2011

Good point. And perhaps these 2 GMs are making it public because they want more for less in deals they've been talking to Darcy about. Who knows? One thing I am 100% sure of though is that Darcy knows more about evaluating players than anyone on an internet message board.

I wonder if DR is any good at evaluating race horses.

GO SABRES!!!

BuffalOhio · December 23, 2011

Didn't know that. Being away from Buffalo, I don't listen to WGR often, so I miss a lot of what he says unless people post it here.

Get the TuneIn Radio App. Awesome way to listen!

dEnnis the Menace · December 23, 2011

Get the TuneIn Radio App. Awesome way to listen!

I have the WGR550 app on my iPhone, and I have the website bookmarked on my computer, but it's difficult to constantly stream anything in this office.

Ghost of Dwight Drane · December 23, 2011

I wonder if DR is any good at evaluating race horses.

GO SABRES!!!

Rip Simonak is your guy.

Darcy bets $2 to show on the favorite when he goes to the track.

Well, I think he said that because his bosses told him there would be no LTIR hanky-panky that resulted in additional cash outlays. I agree that a smart and FULLY BANKROLLED GM would have used it.

I do agree though that they knew it was their last real shot but didn't want to spend the money to improve their chances. But again I think that decision was not made by DR.

He didn't have to say a thing. Considering how few people even understand what he was doing, it was an obvious calculated move. Then he tells us year after year they want to win a Cup. No they didn't. '06-'07 was like someone about to go into bankruptcy because they had $100K in debts. If you have 10K left on your credit card for a cash advance, why not use it and go to the casino hoping to hit a payday? You have no real chance going forward, so go for it.

Darcy is a survivor. He's willing to put on that "aw shucks" look to get away with years of treading water. Signing that extension last year when the Sabres were one of the worst teams in the league.....come'on. that says all you need to know. $20 million in salary later...........

nfreeman · December 23, 2011

Rip Simonak is your guy.

Darcy bets $2 to show on the favorite when he goes to the track.

He didn't have to say a thing. Considering how few people even understand what he was doing, it was an obvious calculated move. Then he tells us year after year they want to win a Cup. No they didn't. '06-'07 was like someone about to go into bankruptcy because they had $100K in debts. If you have 10K left on your credit card for a cash advance, why not use it and go to the casino hoping to hit a payday? You have no real chance going forward, so go for it.

Darcy is a survivor. He's willing to put on that "aw shucks" look to get away with years of treading water. Signing that extension last year when the Sabres were one of the worst teams in the league.....come'on. that says all you need to know. $20 million in salary later...........

I think you are taking this out of context. NJ was playing games with LTIR that year (among other salary cap games). I think DR was making that statement as a way of implicitly taking a public shot at NJ and drawing attention to the fact that the right thing to do is to play by the rules -- especially when his owners weren't giving him the option of doing otherwise. I also think he made that statement in response to a reporter's question -- ie he didn't call a press conference or issue a release to make this statement.

As for signing an extension -- is there a single NHL GM who wouldn't have done so in that situation? Also, I would expect that TP/TB knew about the extension and gave TG/LQ the go-ahead to give it to DR. Last fall, TG could taste that payday -- he wasn't going to do anything to tick off TP and jeopardize the deal.

Ghost of Dwight Drane · December 23, 2011

I think you are taking this out of context. NJ was playing games with LTIR that year (among other salary cap games). I think DR was making that statement as a way of implicitly taking a public shot at NJ and drawing attention to the fact that the right thing to do is to play by the rules -- especially when his owners weren't giving him the option of doing otherwise. I also think he made that statement in response to a reporter's question -- ie he didn't call a press conference or issue a release to make this statement.

As for signing an extension -- is there a single NHL GM who wouldn't have done so in that situation? Also, I would expect that TP/TB knew about the extension and gave TG/LQ the go-ahead to give it to DR. Last fall, TG could taste that payday -- he wasn't going to do anything to tick off TP and jeopardize the deal.

But when your doctors diagnose Afinigenov out into the playoffs a few days earlier, and Connolly hadn't played in close to a year......NO....it was a deliberate self-castration. Of course he isn't going to call a press conference....it was a shady move against the fans instead of a grey-area, prudent business move within NHL guidelines. Darcy isn't stupid. He's weak, but not stupid.

If Pegula blessed a 2 year extension for Darcy when they missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and were up for the #1 overall draft pick........then we really haven't been critical enough of Pegula I guess. "Yeah....we're going to make a move to takeover your cluster-f of a mismanaged company who is having the biggest profit loss in their history......um, you know what?.....might as well give that CEO a 2 year extension and a big fat raise!"

And before Eleven or Santa Claus gets confused.....I'm using the results on ice as the comparison.....not the actual team profits. I know...they made money....the same 16,000 people have been shelling out $$$ for the past 5 years....of course they are making money.

RazielSabre · December 23, 2011

I was trying to find a more diplomatic way of expressing the same. I'll just let your quote stand on its own.

Until the first round of the playoffs start.

The Sabres have spent far more time out of the playoffs than in, plus we've never gone deep while Roy's been in the lineup. The Flyers have had a far more successful few seasons. Roy has had playoff success at the lower leagues, didn't he lead Kitchener to the Cup? I'm not pretending hs better, just that his as good.

Infact you want to know why you probably think his so much better? Because he 95 points in 1 season, his final season here, a contact year. His never come close since.

nfreeman · December 23, 2011

But when your doctors diagnose Afinigenov out into the playoffs a few days earlier, and Connolly hadn't played in close to a year......NO....it was a deliberate self-castration. Of course he isn't going to call a press conference....it was a shady move against the fans instead of a grey-area, prudent business move within NHL guidelines. Darcy isn't stupid. He's weak, but not stupid.

If Pegula blessed a 2 year extension for Darcy when they missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and were up for the #1 overall draft pick........then we really haven't been critical enough of Pegula I guess. "Yeah....we're going to make a move to takeover your cluster-f of a mismanaged company who is having the biggest profit loss in their history......um, you know what?.....might as well give that CEO a 2 year extension and a big fat raise!"

And before Eleven or Santa Claus gets confused.....I'm using the results on ice as the comparison.....not the actual team profits. I know...they made money....the same 16,000 people have been shelling out $$$ for the past 5 years....of course they are making money.

Well "self castration" is a little strong, but more importantly, I don't think DR was the one wielding the pinking shears -- I think it was TG/LQ. DR made the statement, but he did so (I'm guessing) in the role of loyal company man.

Now, you and others have stated that he should've quit rather than have decisions like this and others forced on him from above, but I don't think this is realistic or reasonable.

And you are spinning when you say "up for the overall #1 pick" but I think you knew that already.

Ghost of Dwight Drane · December 23, 2011

Now, you and others have stated that he should've quit rather than have decisions like this and others forced on him from above, but I don't think this is realistic or reasonable.

And you are spinning when you say "up for the overall #1 pick" but I think you knew that already.

Well, they were 9-13-3 on December 1st and worse off before that. If that's when the negotiations were hot and heavy....not really spinning.

And no matter where the decisions came from, Darcy was the face delivering them with a straight face. At best he was Baghdad Bob. When Iraq was "liberated", how long do you think Bob would have lasted if he was still the face of the country? That's what Ted Black doesn't understand.......some of us aren't worried about 41 years and the wheel spinning when it comes to frustration. The frustration comes from a man with unlimited financial resources leaving Baghdad Bob as the face of the franchise. I think many would have been much more patient with Ruff this year if he had just let Bob take off to an island somewhere with his family and cash.

OK....enough harping.....Merry Christmas.....we can do this again anytime.....

Weave · December 24, 2011

The Sabres have spent far more time out of the playoffs than in, plus we've never gone deep while Roy's been in the lineup. The Flyers have had a far more successful few seasons. Roy has had playoff success at the lower leagues, didn't he lead Kitchener to the Cup? I'm not pretending hs better, just that his as good.

Infact you want to know why you probably think his so much better? Because he 95 points in 1 season, his final season here, a contact year. His never come close since.

Umm, no. This is why I think he's better.

Briere: 42 goals in 97 playoff games

Roy: 7 goals in 41 playoff games

Don't pretend to think for me. I do quite well on my own.

I'll offer an olive branch here. I don't know why you seem to want to get snarky and condescending with me. I don't recall starting a conversation with you that way. But I could be mis-remembering. I'm willing to discontinue the condescension. But I'm equally willing to escalate if you feel the need. Just sayin'...

bunomatic · December 24, 2011

Good point. And perhaps these 2 GMs are making it public because they want more for less in deals they've been talking to Darcy about. Who knows? One thing I am 100% sure of though is that Darcy knows more about evaluating players than anyone on an internet message board.

And I'll bet you dollars to donuts that one of the G.M.'s is that windbag Brian Burke. One thing I'm fairly certain of is that any G.M. worth his salt is surrounded by competent people who aren't afraid to argue vehemently for or against what they believe it takes to get the right player or mix of players. Hopefully Darcy hasn't surrounded himself with yes men. All I know is losing 8 out of the last 11 regardless of injuries is sick. Something has to happen soon.And hopefully not on Darcys glacial timeframe.

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Paul Hamilton: Two GMs tell him Darcy overvalues his players by quite a bit

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