It's "hard work" to be a "good team"

[GloveSave]

Yeah usually athletes play their whole lives not caring about winning until they get to the pros. This is idiotic I can guarantee that every single player cared about winning at every level they were at... especially those that were good enough to make it in the pros.

That's not really what I meant. What I meant was of course any athlete wants to win, but for guys called up from Rochester the winning is secondary (i said secondary, as in not their first priority). They're getting a chance to show they can play in the NHL, most likely a life-long dream. Showing the organization that they are in fact NHL players is their priority.

 

As for every single player caring about winning...I've coached Jrs...and (at times) when they know scouts for higher organizations will be watching more than a few will throw out team systems and such to show off their own particular skills. Ex: If we are dump and chase team, suddenly guys start trying to dangle...putting themselves before the team. And...if you don't think this happens then you are idiotic.

[GloveSave]

Although your argument is fine, the problem is that most here aren't mad at the team from a quantitative standpoint. We're in the playoffs at the moment and we're winning enough games. The problem lies in the qualitative realm. Look at the top 8 teams in the east and our record against them.

 

PHI 0-2

BOS 0-2

FLA 2-1

NYR 0-1

PIT 1-1

NJD 0-1

BUF -----

TO 1-0

 

We're 4 for 12 against the top teams in the East, and are 0-4 against Boston and Philly. Sure we squeaked out two loser points from them in OTL's but those are games we need to play better in.

 

In our losses to the top 7 teams we are being out-scored 33 to 17.

 

Numbers are fine if you want to look at the macro level, but when you dig into those numbers things aren't so peachy.

You make an excellent point. Firing coaches and trading players though is a little extreme this early in the season, especially given all the injuries and new faces.

[james duncan]

i am fascinated by this, so i wanna break it down.

 

 

 

a joke that i made about how regehr, as the physical veteran d-man brought in from a western team, might talk to rivet, a physical veteran d-man that was brought in from a western team, about getting the core to have a nut sack, collectively and individually.

 

 

 

our man here responds to my joke, with the bolded portion being relevant re: rivet.

 

 

 

k-9 appears to think that he's hearing tell of rivet having been run out of town because he called derek roy a candy-ass.

 

 

 

cvan gets that i made a joke, but doesn't appear to get my joke. (i was not suggesting that speaking out would land regehr in the ECHL.)

 

 

 

and i now see that JD got to this joke before i did.

Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

[Bmwolf21]

I'd be pissed to. If I was him, I'd refer back to the meeting with Pegula and Black when they convinced him to waive his NTC, and ask them about the team with the Stanley Cup aspirations..

This is key. Maybe if he goes back to Pegula and starts raising hell about these guys and asking questions about why we are sticking with guys who don't seem to give a damn, maybe that will start the wheels in motion.

 

Alot of us aren't asking for anyone on the team to call out another player in the media. We're just asking them to take responsibility, and hold themselves and each other accountable. If Regehr comes out and says "we played like crap, I messed up, our d was off, the offense couldn't get anything cooking," etc...I'm happy that he's come out said basically, I'm unhappy with what's going on. in fact, he did say that he was unhappy without throwing any other players under the bus. he used 'we' and 'I' instead of 'him' or 'they' etc.

Well put.

[darksabre]

You make an excellent point. Firing coaches and trading players though is a little extreme this early in the season, especially given all the injuries and new faces.

 

I think you make it sound more extreme than it is though. Teams have had plenty of success moving parts or changing coaches early on. Although I wouldn't recommend doing these things all at one time, I don't think a little tweaking is a bad thing. What we see before us is a team struggling to beat the teams it needs to beat and displaying the same symptoms it has for several seasons now: lack of leadership, lack of willingness to accept responsibility, lack of preparation, and lack of killer instinct.

 

The numbers aren't dire, but the general "feel" that I get for this team is that they are not capable of reaching that next level. Right now I would expect them to be a low seed playoff team, but one really bad stretch and this season could very well end up with a playoff miss if the Sabres wait too long to address some ingrained issues.

 

I don't think a little movement will take us to the top of the league, or to the bottom of it, but I do think it could make the difference between 6th place and 10th place in the long run.

[Eleven]

On the "be patient" stuff: do you think December trades happen overnight?

 

On the comparison to Hitchcock (the ONE coach I might want in here instead of Lindy, and that's a big "might"): Is he dealing with 30%-40% AHLers every night for the last 5 weeks?

[Andrew Amerk]

Wow. a lot of the people on this blog need to get a dose of reality. I've been reading lately about the team's effort and players need to call other players out. It seems that if the team doesn't go 82-0-0 then we should trade everybody or fire everybody.

 

First, no player should call another out in the media...what happens in the locker room should stay there. These guys are professional athletes, they know what kind of effort to give night in and night out. It's not that easy though..it's tough to get up mentally and physically for every game. Some players are hurt and play through it, and we never know about it. Look at all the the injuries they have, you think the other guys are 100%? We get blasted by the Pens and fans want people traded or fired...rediculous.

 

Look who the teams who are leading the league right now...Chicago has 46 points...why? Because in the last 10 games they are 8-1-1...Philly has 43 pts because they are 8-2-0 in the last 10...Boston has 43 too...8-2-0 the last 10. We are only 8 points back!! Why? Because we are 4-4-2 in the last 10. If we win vs Ottawa and Philly (instead of the overtime losses) we woul be 6-4-0 in the last 10. The point? The difference between winning and losing in this league is thisclose. Did Chicago panic when they lost to Edmonton 9-2? Did Boston panic when they had their bad start? Did Philly panic when they gave up 9 to Winnepeg? The answer is no. Just like Mr. Black said...be patient.

 

People talk how the young guys play with more passion...they do. But make no mistake, any one of those callups put winning secondary. Their first prioroty is to play their ###### off so they can stay in the show. They don't care about winning in the AHL, or when they were in JRs...they care that they look good when the higher ups are watching...and when they get a shot, they play with everything they have in hopes of sticking with the big club. To try and play at that pace over 82 games is VERY difficult. That's why (usually) the team that wins it all is the team that comes in the hottest. It's a season of streaks. With the Sabres it's very difficult to put together any consistency with the lineup always changing.

 

Be patient...when everyone is back, we'll be fine. Just hope we get hot around playoff time.

 

Your expectation of the Sabres going on a hot winning streak is borderline delusional, unless our goaltending goes on an extreme hot streak - which is possible.

 

The product in front of them though, less possibility of them becoming hot. Most of the players have been inconsistent, and are continually beaten to lose pucks and outworked positionally and systematically.

 

You mentioned 3 teams specifically that definitively trumped our Sabres this year.

 

Hopefully, later in the year, injured players will become healthy, coaches will stick with the lines, and we can put together a nice run. Unfortunately, I think many of us are already aware that the current roster (including injured players) and staff will likely not make a deep run this season.

[FolignosJock]

That's not really what I meant. What I meant was of course any athlete wants to win, but for guys called up from Rochester the winning is secondary (i said secondary, as in not their first priority). They're getting a chance to show they can play in the NHL, most likely a life-long dream. Showing the organization that they are in fact NHL players is their priority.

 

As for every single player caring about winning...I've coached Jrs...and (at times) when they know scouts for higher organizations will be watching more than a few will throw out team systems and such to show off their own particular skills. Ex: If we are dump and chase team, suddenly guys start trying to dangle...putting themselves before the team. And...if you don't think this happens then you are idiotic.

 

 

The bolded is not what you said originally. I could see this happening in JRs maybe if a guy wasnt drafted in his year and came on late... I am interested in hearing some examples in your coaching experience and where you coached...

 

So your argument is that guys up from portland are just palying hard trying to make an impression? So their first objective is to play hard and their second is to win... and your argument sounds like the vets or players who have been on the teams first goal is to win and their second objective is to play hard? That doesnt make sense.

 

The bolded is not what you said originally. I could see this happening in JRs maybe if a guy wasnt drafted in his year and came on late... I am interested in hearing some examples in your coaching experience and where you coached...

 

So your argument is that guys up from portland are just palying hard trying to make an impression? So their first objective is to play hard and their second is to win... and your argument sounds like the vets or players who have been on the teams first goal is to win and their second objective is to play hard? That doesnt make sense.

 

 

Winning for every player is the goal unless you have some scumbag on your team trying to audition for a trade and that guy is sure to be a locker room cancer. Winning is always the desired outcome just because the young guys have more at stake does not mean they are putting that secondary. I dont think that any player can keep up that intensity for 82 games but in this core of players we havent seen any of that intensity except from the young guys and a few select guys.

[Sabre Dance]

Your expectation of the Sabres going on a hot winning streak is borderline delusional, unless our goaltending goes on an extreme hot streak - which is possible.

 

The product in front of them though, less possibility of them becoming hot. Most of the players have been inconsistent, and are continually beaten to loose pucks and outworked positionally and systematically.

 

Fixed.

 

You mentioned 3 teams specifically that definitively trumped our Sabres this year.

 

 

Here's another: Detroit. You know, the one that TPegs held up as an example of what the Sabres should aspire to? Honestly, even before the injury bug, does this Sabres' team bear any resemblance to a team like Detroit? (Or Boston or Philly?)

 

Hopefully, later in the year, injured players will become healthy, coaches will stick with the lines, and we can put together a nice run. Unfortunately, I think many of us are already aware that the current roster (including injured players) and staff will likely not make a deep run this season.

 

Yes, and Tinker Bell will come back to life and a Vulcan spaceship will land and give us the secret to running our cars on tap water. Seriously, though - is the goal of the team to simply put together a nice run and reach the playoffs? If we don't have the guns to make a deep run in the playoff, then what the hell are we doing? After Reading "Inside the NHL" in last Sunday's news, it sounds like Ted Black is doing his best Larry Quinn impression. No change to coach or GM this season, MAYBE we'll bring in a player or two IF we can get fair value in a trade. I feel much more like Buffalo is "Hockey Hell" instead of "Hockey Heaven"....(or at least "Puck Purgatory").

[RazielSabre]

How many of you have forgotten the Sabres habit of starting slow then going on a torrid streak after the all star break? It's SO ###### annoying but this might be another one of those seasons. As long as we can stay between 6-8th now we should be ok.

[dEnnis the Menace]

How many of you have forgotten the Sabres habit of starting slow then going on a torrid streak after the all star break? It's SO ###### annoying but this might be another one of those seasons. As long as we can stay between 6-8th now we should be ok.

 

consistency is overrated? ;)

 

I would love to see them go on a tear or "torrid streak" as you called it, but I'm not sure I see that happening until our injury plague/Hockey Gods curse goes away :(

[darksabre]

How many of you have forgotten the Sabres habit of starting slow then going on a torrid streak after the all star break? It's SO ###### annoying but this might be another one of those seasons. As long as we can stay between 6-8th now we should be ok.

 

We know that's their M.O. That is well established.

 

The questions we need to ask are why is that their M.O., and why should that be acceptable?

[Samson's Flow]

I agree, Pominville is the kind of guy who leads you on the scoreboard. He's done a tremendous job of it too, but what the team needs right now is serious accountability. It doesn't really matter if it comes from the captain or not, as long as it is clear as day that when, let's say Regehr, speaks up everyone listens.

 

All this is speculation on my part, but the team seems to be way to comfortable right now. It doesn't seem like Ruff is the kind of guy who can bring the thunder and brimstone anymore, so then someone else has to. This is a role that someone like Gaustad should have picked up and run with, but it doesn't look like he has. I am hoping that Regehr will be the man to step up here.

And herein may lie the problem. Many criticized the fact that Rivet, a guy who never played a game as a Sabre, was immediately made captain. And now we are looking to Regehr, a player who has been a Sabre for a quarter of the season, to step in and essentially do the same thing. We come full circle.

I completely agree, and I don't think there's anyone in the locker room who couldn't or shouldn't go completely ballistic after a few of the games this year, I'm not sure if anyone has the guts to do it though. I hope Regher steps up, he seems like the best candidate for the job of the new guys. Seems like he's starting to make some promising steps in that direction by pretty much calling people out in the media. Now what is needed is to get the silk gloves off and lay into this team behind closed doors.

Pominville was asked earlier this year, if he would care if somebody took the floor in the locker room and started to ask for accountability, and he said something to the effect that when someone talks they all listen. IMO, who is talking is going to matter a lot more when it comes to how well they listen instead of just hear. If Regehr is talking, my bet is they actually listen. If Derek is talking, maybe not as much.

 

In regards to the injuries as an excuse, I think that once most of these guys come back, and how the team reacts, and how the team...*buzz word alert*...gels, then I'll pass my judgement as the whether it was an excuse or not.

All of your posts go back to the root of the issue, which is, and always has been, that the "core" players that have been on the team since their days as Amerks have a non-chalant attitude and no leadership skills what-so-ever. Pommers is not scoring more points because he is captain, he is scoring more because he has been consistently paired with our best player - Vanek - and is benefiting from it.

 

It was obvious in the offseason that this team was hurting for leadership when we had a 20 page thread on who should be captain. If it isn't obvious, then you don't have one. No matter who LR put the C on this year, nobody was going to be the type of leader needed to whip these pansies into shape and give a consistent effort. Regher is as close as we get, but again, hes in the same position as Rivet was a few years back.

[sabre4life]

We know that's their M.O. That is well established.

 

The questions we need to ask are why is that their M.O., and why should that be acceptable?

 

Maybe because winning the Presidents Trophy doesn't necessarily guarantee the ultimate prize... I too am waiting until January, I "hope" they wake up and realize they need to put in the work to get the job done. Also you can't discredit the fact this team is hampered by injuries, it's not an excuse it's reality.

 

And why do I have TC as an avatar photo... is this some kind of sick joke...? Maybe that's why they are doing so poorly me being superstitious and all.

[Weave]

Maybe because winning the Presidents Trophy doesn't necessarily guarantee the ultimate prize... I too am waiting until January, I "hope" they wake up and realize they need to put in the work to get the job done. Also you can't discredit the fact this team is hampered by injuries, it's not an excuse it's reality.

 

And why do I have TC as an avatar photo... is this some kind of sick joke...? Maybe that's why they are doing so poorly me being superstitious and all.

 

I'm willing to buy that having a half dozen AHL'ers on the roster is going to result in more losses than wins. But, I'm seeing more than that and the "more" that I am seeing is troubling. Yet at the same time it is nothing new. I am seeing established NHL'ers like Roy and Stafford who are not skating hard to loose pucks, not working their tails off in an attempt to overcome the weakness of AHL'ers on their team, and not making intensity part of their regular shift. These regulars are consistently getting beaten to loose pucks, they are taking stick swipes at opposing players with the puck instead of making body contact, losing battles along the boards, and just generally getting outworked.

 

You can blame the losses on all the AHL'ers in the lineup but if you ignore the lack of inensity by quite a few of the regulars and not at least partially point the finger at them the IMO you are fooling yourself.

 

 

As for the Connolly thing, it is SDS's way of gently nudging you into choosing an avatar. It stays only if you want it to stay.

[darksabre]

Maybe because winning the Presidents Trophy doesn't necessarily guarantee the ultimate prize... I too am waiting until January, I "hope" they wake up and realize they need to put in the work to get the job done. Also you can't discredit the fact this team is hampered by injuries, it's not an excuse it's reality.

 

And why do I have TC as an avatar photo... is this some kind of sick joke...? Maybe that's why they are doing so poorly me being superstitious and all.

 

I think the injuries are a problem, and you are correct, they are a reason for our poor start. But the slow start can't be pinned solely on injuries, it's just the way they operate. The only year we haven't started slow was the Presidents trophy year, with a team many of us knew was burning out into the playoffs.

 

Slow starts are tough, I just wonder why they are typical of this team.

[sabre4life]

I'm willing to buy that having a half dozen AHL'ers on the roster is going to result in more losses than wins. But, I'm seeing more than that and the "more" that I am seeing is troubling. Yet at the same time it is nothing new. I am seeing established NHL'ers like Roy and Stafford who are not skating hard to loose pucks, not working their tails off in an attempt to overcome the weakness of AHL'ers on their team, and not making intensity part of their regular shift. These regulars are consistently getting beaten to loose pucks, they are taking stick swipes at opposing players with the puck instead of making body contact, losing battles along the boards, and just generally getting outworked.

 

You can blame the losses on all the AHL'ers in the lineup but if you ignore the lack of inensity by quite a few of the regulars and not at least partially point the finger at them the IMO you are fooling yourself.

 

 

As for the Connolly thing, it is SDS's way of gently nudging you into choosing an avatar. It stays only if you want it to stay.

I think the injuries are a problem, and you are correct, they are a reason for our poor start. But the slow start can't be pinned solely on injuries, it's just the way they operate. The only year we haven't started slow was the Presidents trophy year, with a team many of us knew was burning out into the playoffs.

 

Slow starts are tough, I just wonder why they are typical of this team.

 

I agree with the both of you and your points, I'm not making or trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to stay positive and allowing for the second half of the season to get started before I'm ready to ass(es) the damage. Like a previous post before said, as long as they don't fall too far from the tree they should be ok, but we all know it's better to be in the top 3 heading into the playoffs than the bottom feeders except for the 99 cup run of course.

 

I'd like nothing more than to be rid of Roy, Stafford, but if we had those injured players in the lineup we wouldn't need to count on Roy, and Stafford to generate points. Though in past seasons Roy is/was practically a point a game player... I just can't stand his childish play style. We all hope Vanek and Pommers stay Semi-hot and not get streaky like in years past to make up for the short comings of the perceived second line RSE...

[Andrew Amerk]

I'd like nothing more than to be rid of Roy, Stafford, but if we had those injured players in the lineup we wouldn't need to count on Roy, and Stafford to generate points. Though in past seasons Roy is/was practically a point a game player... I just can't stand his childish play style. We all hope Vanek and Pommers stay Semi-hot and not get streaky like in years past to make up for the short comings of the perceived second line RSE...

 

Then what are we paying #9 and #21 for if they cannot contribute?

[RazielSabre]

We know that's their M.O. That is well established.

 

The questions we need to ask are why is that their M.O., and why should that be acceptable?

 

Ah in that case point agreed, it's unacceptable. I think it's down to the professionalism of the players in the offseason, maybe. Long shot I know. My point was that this season is no different, sadly.

 

consistency is overrated? ;) I would love to see them go on a tear or "torrid streak" as you called it, but I'm not sure I see that happening until our injury plague/Hockey Gods curse goes away :(

Yer that really doesnt help, but Kass has really helped and Mcnabb looks good. Other than them I do want my team back. And Stafford traded for Iginla or a natural, playmaking center.

[TheChimp]

People talk how the young guys play with more passion...they do. But make no mistake, any one of those callups put winning secondary. Their first prioroty is to play their ###### off so they can stay in the show.....

 

If only ALL the players played like that, they would not be losing so many winnable games. And sorry, this one's all on the coach. Here we go again, letting him off the hook. Year after damn year this crap happens.

[RazielSabre]

If only ALL the players played like that, they would not be losing so many winnable games. And sorry, this one's all on the coach. Here we go again, letting him off the hook. Year after damn year this crap happens.

Disagree, players who play to impress make mistakes and cost us points. They can't play as well in a team environment, combined with the fact that they don't have the experience to cope with tougher situations and a national media presence.

[That Aud Smell]

I am seeing established NHL'ers like Roy and Stafford who are not skating hard to loose pucks, not working their tails off in an attempt to overcome the weakness of AHL'ers on their team, and not making intensity part of their regular shift. These regulars are consistently getting beaten to loose pucks, they are taking stick swipes at opposing players with the puck instead of making body contact, losing battles along the boards, and just generally getting outworked.

 

spot. on.

 

:censored:

[RazielSabre]

From the captain:

 

"We wanted to end this on a pretty good note here," a disappointed Pominville said. "Again, the effort was there, and the results weren't. If we keep putting efforts up like this and limit those little [mental mistakes], we're going to get on a roll here."

 

Not really the note I'd want the captain to end on, the defeatist 'it'll happen some day' attitude.

[TheChimp]

Disagree, players who play to impress make mistakes and cost us points. They can't play as well in a team environment, combined with the fact that they don't have the experience to cope with tougher situations and a national media presence.

That was complete B.S. But well said!!!

[HopefulFuture]

I'd argue Pominville has responded to the captaincy by having the best season of his career. And I don't think he'd object to Regehr saying something. Of course, both of them may have already done so. Maybe it's just a case with many in their audience that that dog just don't hunt.

 

point wise, yes it will approach the 80 point mark if he can keep this pace. That's a big if. He'll most likely end up in the 65 to 75 point range, unless the Sabres pull a rabbit out of their hat and bring in the missing piece for that line.

 

From the captain:

 

"We wanted to end this on a pretty good note here," a disappointed Pominville said. "Again, the effort was there, and the results weren't. If we keep putting efforts up like this and limit those little [mental mistakes], we're going to get on a roll here."

 

Not really the note I'd want the captain to end on, the defeatist 'it'll happen some day' attitude.

 

I want the captain of this team and just say it the way it is.

 

My Jason Pominville in the post game comments:

"These guys better pull their heads out of their ###### and learn where the back of the net is. V and I can't carry this team on our own, and for god's sake, tell that pylon of a GM we have to get V and I a dam center that can pot the puck".