Stafford needs to go

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Out of the mouths of babes...

 

 

 

And if Roy is unloaded and the team suddenly takes off -- in the exact fashion it did last year -- what will other people say?

 

It may very well be time to can DR and/or LR. But the idea of doing so in order to invigorate Roy and Stafford makes me sick. (And, I would venture to say, would be a poor hockey decision.)

 

You get rid of Darcy and Lindy because they put this entire team together, they named the captains, the installed the system, they spent over the cap, they were given the rope to hang themselves with and have done a fine job in doing so.

 

If you let Darcy make the decisions on who to unload players for......how many times are we going to double-down on status quo? Their vision is a failure......and now to give these guys the priviledge to sell off the broken parts of their self-created debacle........WTF?

 

The hole for this franchise gets deeper...and deeper...and deeper.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Why? They're no closer to winning the Cup this year if they take the conservative approach. Why not get it over with if the pieces they think can do it going forward are available? I'm not saying those pieces are available, however I am saying that if there are opportunities, I would prefer they take them no matter how drastic it seems in the (very) short term.

 

When you have a problem with your car, do you ask the mechanic to rip everything out and replace everything? I usually ask him to fix the glaring issue first, and if a problem remains, then I have him fix that.

 

Lindy isn't the glaring issue. The players that are lazy are. start there. if there's still an issue, then start looking elsewhere. If you try to replace the entire engine when the transmission is the problem, you haven't fixed anything, you've just left the other issue to continue to get worse.

[...]

When you have a problem with your car, do you ask the mechanic to rip everything out and replace everything? I usually ask him to fix the glaring issue first, and if a problem remains, then I have him fix that.

 

Lindy isn't the glaring issue. The players that are lazy are. start there. if there's still an issue, then start looking elsewhere. If you try to replace the entire engine when the transmission is the problem, you haven't fixed anything, you've just left the other issue to continue to get worse.

 

This isn't a car we're talking about. This is a group of humans gathered together, ostensibly, to accomplish a singular objective. It's more like a platoon, where if it routinely fails to meet its objective, the platoon commander and his/her officers are replaced, rather than replacing the entire corps.

 

If you want to liken the Sabres to machines, or any non-human system, I can certainly oblige with the appropriate analogies, but suffice to say for now that I do not believe your analogy is appropriate.

Edited December 19, 2011 by sizzlemeister

[LabattBlue]

My comment was directed towards the "missing the playoffs" part and being ok with that. If that is NOT what you meant, then my apologies.

 

And yes, there is a lot to complain about... I just don't see you as one of the happy go luck crowd if the Sabres missed the playoffs. Thus, my comment - which may have been a response to something you weren't saying.

To clarify...I would be okay with the Sabres trading Roy and Stafford ASAP. If they missed the playoffs as a direct result of trading these two(I don't know how this could be proven), yes, I would be okay with that too....of course if it caused DR and/or LR to lose their jobs, that would be even better.

 

I just have no faith in this team, coaching staff & GM. The elite defense isn't elite, Roy & Stafford are as inconsistent as ever, I have no idea what is going on with Miller, etc...

 

I'd love to have them prove me wrong.

[Weave]

When you have a problem with your car, do you ask the mechanic to rip everything out and replace everything? I usually ask him to fix the glaring issue first, and if a problem remains, then I have him fix that.

 

Lindy isn't the glaring issue. The players that are lazy are. start there. if there's still an issue, then start looking elsewhere. If you try to replace the entire engine when the transmission is the problem, you haven't fixed anything, you've just left the other issue to continue to get worse.

 

I think the reason you two are differing here is the bolded part. In Sizzle's mind (and the minds of many others, I'm getting closer to agreeing with them) the same mechanic has been working on the car for many years and the car is no closer to being properly fixed. In fact, not only were the wrong parts purchased, but there is evidence that they may have been installed incorrectly. Going to a different mechanic AND replacing the parts with the right ones may very well be warranted.

[...]

I think the reason you two are differing here is the bolded part. In Sizzle's mind (and the minds of many others, I'm getting closer to agreeing with them) the same mechanic has been working on the car for many years and the car is no closer to being properly fixed. In fact, not only were the wrong parts purchased, but there is evidence that they may have been installed incorrectly. Going to a different mechanic AND replacing the parts with the right ones may very well be warranted.

 

Edited December 19, 2011 by sizzlemeister

[SDS]

If Stafford ends up in Detroit or Vancouver, and scores an average of 30-35 goals and wins a Cup in the next 3 years.....what will people say?

 

If Roy ends up on a team with some natural leaders and a coach who is respected, and puts up an 80 point pace the rest of the year and suddenly plays the puck hard.....what will people say?

 

If this team sold off parts last deadline (Yeah Scott, many of us thought that was the smart play),

 

 

What would I say? Shame on Stafford and Roy for their play here. They ultimately answer for their own efforts. However, it is reasonable to ask why they mailed it in here.

 

And I know you advocated that. It is still my opinion that people always want more than they currently have, despite any past proclamations. As soon as the battle ends, a new one starts.

[LabattBlue]

That's part of the fun for me. Like a Sabres soap opera. Believe me something's coming and it ain't me.

 

Holiday trade freeze is today until the 27th.. Unless it's DR or LR getting canned, the only thing coming, is snow! :P

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

What would I say? Shame on Stafford and Roy for their play here. They ultimately answer for their own efforts. However, it is reasonable to ask why they mailed it in here.

 

And I know you advocated that. It is still my opinion that people always want more than they currently have, despite any past proclamations. As soon as the battle ends, a new one starts.

 

Everyone is frustrated now.

 

If I have a group of 20 guys on the ice I can respect, I will spend my money hand over fist on this team.

 

If we don't have those types of guys on the ice, then why? That has been the problem over the past 5 years, and now that $$$ from ownership isn't an issue, the answers become more obvious.

 

You see how I support the players onn the Bills and their coach. Those are guys truly dealing with limited resources, and although there is no excuse to fall off the map as much as they have, Gailey has been honest every time he steps to that podium. I think those kids have the makeup, with a few additions and some health, to be a really good team. They work hard, have a high football IQ, like each other, and are pretty much character guys. I don't blindly support the Bills. I wash harsher on Donahoe/Mularkey than I am to Regier/Ruff if you can imagine that.

 

Now that Pegula is in town, I understood he would have a learning curve. I just thought it was impossible to make things worse. If he keeps Lindy/Darcy and allows further roster moves....that just may be the case.

[Who Else?]

In my book, the single, biggest homer I have ever heard. In any sport. And that is saying something because I have to listen to "Coatsie" here in Philadelphia.

 

I'll second that. I can't even watch Pens games on mute because of what he might be saying.

[dEnnis the Menace]

This isn't a car we're talking about. This is a group of humans gathered together, ostensibly, to accomplish a singular objective. It's more like a platoon, where if it routinely fails to meet its objective, the platoon commander and his/her officers are replaced, rather than replacing the entire corps.

 

If you want to liken the Sabres to machines, or any non-human system, I can certainly oblige with the appropriate analogies, but suffice to say for now that I do not believe your analogy is appropriate.

I think the reason you two are differing here is the bolded part. In Sizzle's mind (and the minds of many others, I'm getting closer to agreeing with them) the same mechanic has been working on the car for many years and the car is no closer to being properly fixed. In fact, not only were the wrong parts purchased, but there is evidence that they may have been installed incorrectly. Going to a different mechanic AND replacing the parts with the right ones may very well be warranted.

 

Quite frankly, I think the problem starts with DR, and cascades from there. Yes, Ruff is right under him in terms of flow, however, I think too many players are too comfortable with their positions. In a platoon, if that's what you would rather liken it to, if you have a small group of soldiers who lackadaisically do their job (notice how I'm not saying the whole platoon. In my original post I clearly stated that a few players are the problem), they'd be at best reallocated, worse court marshaled for dereliction of duty, regardless of their leader. So, seeing as how we can't court marshal the players, we may as well reallocate (trade a few) somewhere.

 

DISCLAIMER: this is not a trade proposal where I am saying trade our lazy players for some good players. don't read it that way because it's not intended to be that way.

 

All I am saying is that certain players NEED a change in scenery, and we could use some cap relief, and some of our Amerks (McNabb, Kassian, Chewie) are playing just fine with the big boys. I think that if the platoon doesn't show signs of change after a move, then you look to the leadership. At least, that's how it would go if this were a platoon...

[darksabre]

 

 

Why? They're no closer to winning the Cup this year if they take the conservative approach. Why not get it over with if the pieces they think can do it going forward are available? I'm not saying those pieces are available, however I am saying that if there are opportunities, I would prefer they take them no matter how drastic it seems in the (very) short term.

 

That's where we differ then. I don't see the need to be so drastic. Try one thing, see what happens, then try another. It's not like we're last in the league. We're not good, but we could be a lot worse. I don't see the need to force that hand.

[dEnnis the Menace]

That's where we differ then. I don't see the need to be so drastic. Try one thing, see what happens, then try another. It's not like we're last in the league. We're not good, but we could be a lot worse. I don't see the need to force that hand.

 

That's all I was saying too.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

That's where we differ then. I don't see the need to be so drastic. Try one thing, see what happens, then try another. It's not like we're last in the league. We're not good, but we could be a lot worse. I don't see the need to force that hand.

 

Here's what people aren't talking about when it comes to the standings. People like to fall back on "last year at this time they went on a run!" At this point in time however, 12 teams are in the thick of it and Tampa is not far off. As the conference games start to pile up now, almost EVERY game means that the Sabres will lose ground to at least one team in the East. There is no scoreboard rooting, unless you assume your goal is now just to sneak in the playoffs, so you root for the real teams like Boston, Philly and Pitt to run away with things. When the Sabres lose a game, someone is going to take 2 points from them, as well as a possible 6 other teams. Then you have the Blessed Bettman bonus point.

 

You NEED to go on a run. You can't rely on other teams to crap the bed because too many teams have already distanced themselves and almost everyone is alive. If you conceed the division to Boston, you need to battle 9 other teams for the 4th seed and home ice advantage. You need to battle 9 teams for 5 spots. You need to battle 9 teams for the 8th spot.

 

We are 40% through the season.

[darksabre]

Here's what people aren't talking about when it comes to the standings. People like to fall back on "last year at this time they went on a run!" At this point in time however, 12 teams are in the thick of it and Tampa is not far off. As the conference games start to pile up now, almost EVERY game means that the Sabres will lose ground to at least one team in the East. There is no scoreboard rooting, unless you assume your goal is now just to sneak in the playoffs, so you root for the real teams like Boston, Philly and Pitt to run away with things. When the Sabres lose a game, someone is going to take 2 points from them, as well as a possible 6 other teams. Then you have the Blessed Bettman bonus point.

 

You NEED to go on a run. You can't rely on other teams to crap the bed because too many teams have already distanced themselves and almost everyone is alive. If you conceed the division to Boston, you need to battle 9 other teams for the 4th seed and home ice advantage. You need to battle 9 teams for 5 spots. You need to battle 9 teams for the 8th spot.

 

We are 40% through the season.

 

I can't tell whether you are agreeing with me or not.

[K-9]

Here's what people aren't talking about when it comes to the standings. People like to fall back on "last year at this time they went on a run!" At this point in time however, 12 teams are in the thick of it and Tampa is not far off. As the conference games start to pile up now, almost EVERY game means that the Sabres will lose ground to at least one team in the East. There is no scoreboard rooting, unless you assume your goal is now just to sneak in the playoffs, so you root for the real teams like Boston, Philly and Pitt to run away with things. When the Sabres lose a game, someone is going to take 2 points from them, as well as a possible 6 other teams. Then you have the Blessed Bettman bonus point.

 

You NEED to go on a run. You can't rely on other teams to crap the bed because too many teams have already distanced themselves and almost everyone is alive. If you conceed the division to Boston, you need to battle 9 other teams for the 4th seed and home ice advantage. You need to battle 9 teams for 5 spots. You need to battle 9 teams for the 8th spot.

 

We are 40% through the season.

 

Ah, I see. The Sabres control their own destiny.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[nfreeman]

You get rid of Darcy and Lindy because they put this entire team together, they named the captains, the installed the system, they spent over the cap, they were given the rope to hang themselves with and have done a fine job in doing so.

 

If you let Darcy make the decisions on who to unload players for......how many times are we going to double-down on status quo? Their vision is a failure......and now to give these guys the priviledge to sell off the broken parts of their self-created debacle........WTF?

 

The hole for this franchise gets deeper...and deeper...and deeper.

 

Well, I just think it's too soon to make this determination, especially given the injuries. As awful as Saturday night (and a number of other games this year) was, I think it's both fair and prudent to let the season play itself out -- including allowing DR to make whatever trades he thinks will help -- before making a decision. And there is nothing in DR's history to suggest that he'll make poor trades that the team would later regret if he gets canned this summer.

 

When you have a problem with your car, do you ask the mechanic to rip everything out and replace everything? I usually ask him to fix the glaring issue first, and if a problem remains, then I have him fix that.

 

Lindy isn't the glaring issue. The players that are lazy are. start there. if there's still an issue, then start looking elsewhere. If you try to replace the entire engine when the transmission is the problem, you haven't fixed anything, you've just left the other issue to continue to get worse.

This isn't a car we're talking about. This is a group of humans gathered together, ostensibly, to accomplish a singular objective. It's more like a platoon, where if it routinely fails to meet its objective, the platoon commander and his/her officers are replaced, rather than replacing the entire corps.

 

If you want to liken the Sabres to machines, or any non-human system, I can certainly oblige with the appropriate analogies, but suffice to say for now that I do not believe your analogy is appropriate.

Quite frankly, I think the problem starts with DR, and cascades from there. Yes, Ruff is right under him in terms of flow, however, I think too many players are too comfortable with their positions. In a platoon, if that's what you would rather liken it to, if you have a small group of soldiers who lackadaisically do their job (notice how I'm not saying the whole platoon. In my original post I clearly stated that a few players are the problem), they'd be at best reallocated, worse court marshaled for dereliction of duty, regardless of their leader. So, seeing as how we can't court marshal the players, we may as well reallocate (trade a few) somewhere.

That's where we differ then. I don't see the need to be so drastic. Try one thing, see what happens, then try another. It's not like we're last in the league. We're not good, but we could be a lot worse. I don't see the need to force that hand.

 

Good stuff here boys.

 

Here's what people aren't talking about when it comes to the standings. People like to fall back on "last year at this time they went on a run!" At this point in time however, 12 teams are in the thick of it and Tampa is not far off. As the conference games start to pile up now, almost EVERY game means that the Sabres will lose ground to at least one team in the East. There is no scoreboard rooting, unless you assume your goal is now just to sneak in the playoffs, so you root for the real teams like Boston, Philly and Pitt to run away with things. When the Sabres lose a game, someone is going to take 2 points from them, as well as a possible 6 other teams. Then you have the Blessed Bettman bonus point.

 

You NEED to go on a run. You can't rely on other teams to crap the bed because too many teams have already distanced themselves and almost everyone is alive. If you conceed the division to Boston, you need to battle 9 other teams for the 4th seed and home ice advantage. You need to battle 9 teams for 5 spots. You need to battle 9 teams for the 8th spot.

 

We are 40% through the season.

 

All of this is 100% true. If the Sabres continue to play sub-DeLuca-.500 hockey they aren't going to make the playoffs. And if that happens, I think a new broom will sweep clean.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

The broom may come, but the mess will be 3x as big as it could have been.

 

Right now it is only twice as big.

 

That's why the complainers, keep complaining!

[deluca67]

That's where we differ then. I don't see the need to be so drastic. Try one thing, see what happens, then try another. It's not like we're last in the league. We're not good, but we could be a lot worse. I don't see the need to force that hand.

Right here is a fine example of fan apathy. The problem I fear is that this is the exact same sentiment you will find in the offices at the arena.

[james duncan]

When you have a problem with your car, do you ask the mechanic to rip everything out and replace everything? I usually ask him to fix the glaring issue first, and if a problem remains, then I have him fix that.

 

Lindy isn't the glaring issue. The players that are lazy are. start there. if there's still an issue, then start looking elsewhere. If you try to replace the entire engine when the transmission is the problem, you haven't fixed anything, you've just left the other issue to continue to get worse.

I guess it is the classic "which came first" question. Is it the coach? Is it the players? Is it something else such as injuries? I honestly don't know. If I just spent a gazzilion dollars on a team and dressing room and am in it for the long haul, I am taking Chz's approach. Get healthy (one can hope). See the results. And if it still isn't performing then, I am getting a new hockey guy in as GM to figure it out for me.

[deluca67]

Well, I just think it's too soon to make this determination, especially given the injuries. As awful as Saturday night (and a number of other games this year) was, I think it's both fair and prudent to let the season play itself out -- including allowing DR to make whatever trades he thinks will help -- before making a decision. And there is nothing in DR's history to suggest that he'll make poor trades that the team would later regret if he gets canned this summer.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good stuff here boys.

 

 

 

All of this is 100% true. If the Sabres continue to play sub-DeLuca-.500 hockey they aren't going to make the playoffs. And if that happens, I think a new broom will sweep clean.

I want to believe this, I truly do, it's just I heard this before and nothing ever happens. I have no reason to put any faith in the idea that this off-season will be any different. They already have the injury excuse firmly in place and you know Regier and Ruff can ride an excuse to death like no other. Regier will spend to the Cap again (poorly) next season and Ruff will be afforded the comfort of every excuse imaginable. We will be here at the same time next year in the same conversation and we all know it.

 

I guess it is the classic "which came first" question. Is it the coach? Is it the players? Is it something else such as injuries? I honestly don't know. If I just spent a gazzilion dollars on a team and dressing room and am in it for the long haul, I am taking Chz's approach. Get healthy (one can hope). See the results. And if it still isn't performing then, I am getting a new hockey guy in as GM to figure it out for me.

The answer to that question is really simple. If it is a few players than it is the individual players. If it is an entire roster of players continually not showing up at game time prepared and enthused about playing, than it is the coach. I hope that helps.

[darksabre]

Right here is a fine example of fan apathy. The problem I fear is that this is the exact same sentiment you will find in the offices at the arena.

 

It's not apathy, it's realism. You're mistaking the two. I understand where this team is, and I understand that making some changes could fix it. Not wanting to burn the whole team down doesn't make me apathetic.

[North Buffalo]

The problem is we always talk about what stafford could of done. :doh:

 

Agreed, I gave him the benefit of the doubt at the beginning when he showed up and starting throwing his weight around at the beginning of the season. But as typical of Stafford he is a lazy dweeb who has things other than hockey on his mind when he is on the ice. He is not a leader and it is time he steps up. Yes he has lots of talent, but carries a California attitude showing up in spirit only when it suits him.

 

Dump, put him on waivers, whatever... but agreed he is a cancer on this team. At least Roy puts in the effort as much as he appears to have lost a step. And Goose is what he is making due on his size, but lacks the talent of a much needed center. The Sabres are putting to much emphasis on their young D to carry them and the puck up the ice because of a dirth of experienced talent at center.

 

Looks like a long season. Maybe they would be better off finishing in the last 5. They sure could use a talented draft pick.

[deluca67]

It's not apathy, it's realism. You're mistaking the two. I understand where this team is, and I understand that making some changes could fix it. Not wanting to burn the whole team down doesn't make me apathetic.

Sorry, but it does.

 

The epitome of apathy is the idea that things are as they are and there is nothing to be done to change it. Agreeing that some minor or cosmetic changes need to be made doesn't make it any less apathetic. It's a combination of apathy and holding on to a dream of a Cup. Sadly the apathy is winning.

[waldo]

Does Stafford have to go if he scores six goals in the next five games? Do players on other teams in Stafford cap hit range, who are also underachieving, have to go too?

Edited December 20, 2011 by waldo