Stafford needs to go

[Robviously]

Are you trying to say that if this team makes that move and misses the playoffs you won't say a negative thing about it because you are "ok with it"? Please...

The only negative thing I could say about it is that we moved those players too late. Stafford clearly should have been moved earlier in 2011 when his value was at an all-time high. Roy should have been moved earlier than that.

 

Regier overvalues his own players. We never trade anyone when their value is highest. If he were an investor, his strategy would be "Sell Low, Buy High" and he'd be broke.

 

I think the fans have come to terms with the fact that the (then promising) core we were left with after Black Sunday isn't going to succeed. I wish our GM could do the same.

 

When we won a ######-ton of games in 2006-2007 - do you know who the biggest complainer was around here? PA (shocking, I know). Why? We weren't winning "the right way"....

Based on how the playoffs went, wasn't he exactly right? That team *wasn't* built to win in the playoffs. We overpowered a team that wasn't close to us in talent (Islanders), struggled against the Rangers, and then were absolutely no match for Ottawa.

 

If anything, PA was one of the few people thinking clearly when he watched that 2007 team.

[Weave]

The only negative thing I could say about it is that we moved those players too late. Stafford clearly should have been moved earlier in 2011 when his value was at an all-time high. Roy should have been moved earlier than that.

 

Regier overvalues his own players. We never trade anyone when their value is highest. If he were an investor, his strategy would be "Sell Low, Buy High" and he'd be broke.

 

I think the fans have come to terms with the fact that the (then promising) core we were left with after Black Sunday isn't going to succeed. I wish our GM could do the same.

 

 

Based on how the playoffs went, wasn't he exactly right? That team *wasn't* built to win in the playoffs. We overpowered a team that wasn't close to us in talent (Islanders), struggled against the Rangers, and then were absolutely no match for Ottawa.

 

If anything, PA was one of the few people thinking clearly when he watched that 2007 team.

 

 

Careful you chronic complainer you.

[SDS]

I see. So now you are lumping in LabattBlue (the guy you actually responded to) with the chronic complainers. Nice. :rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to moderating if you are going to start throwing that stuff around.

 

I would be shocked if he disagreed.

[spndnchz]

Not to mention freeing them up to bring in a real player...if they can figure out what that is.

 

Kassian. DR won't have much choice pretty soon. Amerks guys get called up, go towards the cap, and then get hurt, can't be sent down. It's like the meter at the gas station, it keeps ringin' up more dollars but no gas is coming out.

 

I see. So now you are lumping in LabattBlue (the guy you actually responded to) with the chronic complainers. Nice. :rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to moderating if you are going to start throwing that stuff around.

 

 

Jsut sayin'....

 

Well, he is a complainin' a lot lately.

 

Jsut sayin'...

[wnyguy]

If there is one certainty in life it is that constant complainers will constantly complain. It is in their DNA. There is no way we move Stafford and/or Roy, have the Sabres miss the playoffs by 2 points and not have 2 more whipping boys step up to LB's plate.

 

When we won a ######-ton of games in 2006-2007 - do you know who the biggest complainer was around here? PA (shocking, I know). Why? We weren't winning "the right way"....

 

When the team gets blown out - people just want to be competitive.

When the team is competitive - people just want to win.

When the team wins - people just want to make the playoffs

When the team makes the playoffs - people just want to go deeper into the playoffs

etc...

 

It never stops for most people.

 

 

I am not a chronic complainer, never have been, but I see something very wrong with this team and those trusted to lead this team. Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Stafford are not, and have never been, able to carry this team anywhere. Now maybe a new GM or coach could change that, or maybe not. but if nothing is done, this team, with these 4 players as a our core group, will never bring us the Cup. Change the Front Office, or change the players. but as it stands now it's beyond my optimism to believe they can win it all.

Edited December 19, 2011 by wnyguy

[nfreeman]

If by putting them in a better financial situation means freeing up cap space, I guess this is somewhat believable. The loss of Stafford could easily be replaced. I am beating a dead horse in regards to this, but I don't know what they do at center for the remainder of this season if Roy is traded....

 

I will predict that they do exactly what they did last year without Roy -- win a lot more games.

 

Kassian making Staff expendable?

 

Kassian is playing well, but I think Stafford is making Stafford expendable.

 

What do the Sabres do at center if they trade Roy? I don't care. I know we're never winning a Stanley Cup with floaters like Roy and Stafford on the roster. If we can clear them out and add to the new core (led by Myers, Kassian, etc.), that's a big win for our franchise.

 

Certainly not with them occupying key roles.

 

I just am throwing it out there that if the return for Stafford and Roy is prospects and picks, this team may miss the playoffs...especially if Miller continues to ###### the bed.

 

I am okay with it, I just don't know if Regier would do it, considering that a playoff miss might cost him his job.

 

If Miller doesn't get his game right they are hosed regardless of what else happens.

 

One of the rumors I saw on Spectorshockey last night was that Columbus is looking to move Derick Brassard but want no or minimal salary coming back, really they want a prospect/pick. Brassard may not be the answer to our Cup dreams but he's a natural center. I'm starting to like the idea of moving Roy and Stafford out, promoting Kassian to the 2nd line, and giving up a pick to get Brassard. Two underachievers out the door, a new (hopefully motivated) player replacing them, and let's work on a bigger upgrade at the deadline.

 

Works for me.

 

I say just get it over with and release the two of them.

 

Oh, sorry I thought this was the breast thread,

 

Very nice.

 

I think this team would make the playoffs. We're in right now with a bunch of guys who regularly take nights off. Eliminate that cancer from the team for some picks, maybe bring in another vet with good leadership presence and you've got a team with enough heart and talent combined to make things interesting.

 

I firmly believe in addition by subtraction.

 

Me too.

 

Roy is having 1 BAD SEASON. He's played well for us, including a PPG last season until the injury. Stafford is a different matter, he has underachieved more than achieved so I'd agree. But boy am I getting tired of fanbois lumping those two together like their twins.

 

Are you joking? You're really going to use last year's results as an argument IN FAVOR of keeping Roy? You're aware of how the team did last year with him and without him, yes? And of how he did in the playoffs the previous year?

 

If anyone is getting tarred with the other guy's brush in this situation, it's Stafford getting tarred with Roy's.

 

My observation isn't based on this season alone. Roy gets his points. I'm suure he'll get them this year too. But it's smoke and mirrors. He's consistently one fo the guys on this team that backs off when the game gets tough. Glides into loose pucks instead of going hard after them. He's prone to weak stick check attempts and lets off the gas in the D zone. He's not a guy who inlcudes hard work into his game and gets exposed when the opposing team is working their ass off. He's been playing that way for most of his career so this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I've had my fill of him.

 

Well said.

 

The only negative thing I could say about it is that we moved those players too late. Stafford clearly should have been moved earlier in 2011 when his value was at an all-time high. Roy should have been moved earlier than that.

 

Regier overvalues his own players. We never trade anyone when their value is highest. If he were an investor, his strategy would be "Sell Low, Buy High" and he'd be broke.

 

I think the fans have come to terms with the fact that the (then promising) core we were left with after Black Sunday isn't going to succeed. I wish our GM could do the same.

 

Based on how the playoffs went, wasn't he exactly right? That team *wasn't* built to win in the playoffs. We overpowered a team that wasn't close to us in talent (Islanders), struggled against the Rangers, and then were absolutely no match for Ottawa.

 

If anything, PA was one of the few people thinking clearly when he watched that 2007 team.

 

Your points are reasonable, but:

 

- DR did unload Biron when his value was at its peak; and

- I miss PA too, but I don't think the Sabres were no match for Ottawa in 2007. They lost 3 OT games in that series, including one in 2OT.

[LabattBlue]

Are you trying to say that if this team makes that move and misses the playoffs you won't say a negative thing about it because you are "ok with it"? Please...

Assuming he doesn't make an unforgettable trade, yes I would be okay with it. The Sabres have got as much as they can out of Roy. Remember those heart to heart talks with Lindy that were much publicized in the off-season two years ago? How did that work out?

 

I bitched about Connolly and Campbell for years. Did you see me afterwards come back and complain the Sabres screwed up and are now sucking because of it? No you didn't. Please step away from your crystal ball and refrain from predicting what my future posts will look like. <_<

 

PS Oh by the way, people are not allowed to ever change their view on anything once they post something. Like that doesn't occur here on a daily basis. :doh:

 

 

Well, he is a complainin' a lot lately.

 

Jsut sayin'...

...and how am I different from the majority of regular posters on this board? Actually, the Sabres sucked so bad on Saturday, I stopped watching after the first period, and didn't post a single thing after the game.

 

...but feel free to pile on in this otherwise "everything is coming up roses" forum.

Edited December 19, 2011 by LabattBlue

[wonderbread]

I'm glad someone else caught that...

 

I rewound it about three times so that everyone I was watching the game with could understand why I was yelling. My father was under the impression that the goal was a weak one by Miller until I reiterated how much time and space MAG's gave one of the top 10 players in the league by skating 5 feet from the sideboards :doh:

 

Bob Errey and the Root Sports broadcasting team were all over it. Saying that MAG's eyes looked like saucers inferring that Malkin had him hypnotized.

[james duncan]

Bob Errey and the Root Sports broadcasting team were all over it. Saying that MAG's eyes looked like saucers inferring that Malkin had him hypnotized.

In my book, the single, biggest homer I have ever heard. In any sport. And that is saying something because I have to listen to "Coatsie" here in Philadelphia.

[qwksndmonster]

I was going to reply to a lot of the things said here, but then freeman did exactly what I was going to do better than I would have done. That guy's a jerk.

[spndnchz]

 

...and how am I different from the majority of regular posters on this board? Actually, the Sabres sucked so bad on Saturday, I stopped watching after the first period, and didn't post a single thing after the game.

 

...but feel free to pile on in this otherwise "everything is coming up roses" forum.

 

People, well let's narrow that down, me and you, see it differently. You have a different perspective than I. You've been around since what I assume is near inception (no insult meant). I been around since Vanek and Roy were born. I think, since I've been watching and following the Sabres, they done fairly well with what they've had. Got real close a few times and at least stayed competitive most years through the thick and thin of owners.

 

I AM expecting more out of this team, more from management and coaches, don't get me wrong there. It IS a pure waste of my emotional time to bitch and complain about how they win, how they lose, how they talk to the press, how they get blown out once in a while.

 

What do I want to see happen? I want my Sabres back. ALL of them. I want the first two games of this season back. I want them to play hard and throw the puck at the net like they did in those first two games as much as possible.

 

Who do I want gone? Stafford's one. Roy may be another. Those moves are next to impossible to make right now with the injuries they have.

 

After X-mas the team should be falling back into place. Myers, Boyes, Leino, Kaleta, Ennis, and most likely a healed Gerbe. I don't think one of the injured is affecting this team right now. It's all of them put together. I'd give it 10 games after they are all back to proclaim judgement.

[LaFontaineToMogilny]

My observation isn't based on this season alone. Roy gets his points. I'm suure he'll get them this year too. But it's smoke and mirrors. He's consistently one fo the guys on this team that backs off when the game gets tough. Glides into loose pucks instead of going hard after them. He's prone to weak stick check attempts and lets off the gas in the D zone. He's not a guy who inlcudes hard work into his game and gets exposed when the opposing team is working their ass off. He's been playing that way for most of his career so this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I've had my fill of him.

 

I would add to this careless with the puck/being to fancy/turn over prone, how ever you want to phrase it.

[LabattBlue]

People, well let's narrow that down, me and you, see it differently. You have a different perspective than I. You've been around since what I assume is near inception (no insult meant). I been around since Vanek and Roy were born. I think, since I've been watching and following the Sabres, they done fairly well with what they've had. Got real close a few times and at least stayed competitive most years through the thick and thin of owners.

 

I AM expecting more out of this team, more from management and coaches, don't get me wrong there. It IS a pure waste of my emotional time to bitch and complain about how they win, how they lose, how they talk to the press, how they get blown out once in a while.

 

What do I want to see happen? I want my Sabres back. ALL of them. I want the first two games of this season back. I want them to play hard and throw the puck at the net like they did in those first two games as much as possible.

 

Who do I want gone? Stafford's one. Roy may be another. Those moves are next to impossible to make right now with the injuries they have.

 

After X-mas the team should be falling back into place. Myers, Boyes, Leino, Kaleta, Ennis, and most likely a healed Gerbe. I don't think one of the injured is affecting this team right now. It's all of them put together. I'd give it 10 games after they are all back to proclaim judgement.

Fair enough. I just choose to not let them put all of the poor play and losses on injuries. There is much more going on then just injuries with this team.

[SDS]

Assuming he doesn't make an unforgettable trade, yes I would be okay with it. The Sabres have got as much as they can out of Roy. Remember those heart to heart talks with Lindy that were much publicized in the off-season two years ago? How did that work out?

 

I bitched about Connolly and Campbell for years. Did you see me afterwards come back and complain the Sabres screwed up and are now sucking because of it? No you didn't. Please step away from your crystal ball and refrain from predicting what my future posts will look like. <_>

 

PS Oh by the way, people are not allowed to ever change their view on anything once they post something. Like that doesn't occur here on a daily basis. :doh:

 

 

 

...and how am I different from the majority of regular posters on this board? Actually, the Sabres sucked so bad on Saturday, I stopped watching after the first period, and didn't post a single thing after the game.

 

...but feel free to pile on in this otherwise "everything is coming up roses" forum.

 

My comment was directed towards the "missing the playoffs" part and being ok with that. If that is NOT what you meant, then my apologies.

 

And yes, there is a lot to complain about... I just don't see you as one of the happy go luck crowd if the Sabres missed the playoffs. Thus, my comment - which may have been a response to something you weren't saying.

[spndnchz]

Fair enough. I just choose to not let them put all of the poor play and losses on injuries. There is much more going on then just injuries with this team.

 

That's part of the fun for me. Like a Sabres soap opera. Believe me something's coming and it ain't me.

[SDS]

That's part of the fun for me. Like a Sabres soap opera. Believe me something's coming and it ain't me.

 

I would expect many more misspellings if it were.... haha

[Robviously]

That's part of the fun for me. Like a Sabres soap opera. Believe me something's coming and it ain't me.

 

:unsure:

[darksabre]

 

 

That's part of the fun for me. Like a Sabres soap opera. Believe me something's coming and it ain't me.

 

Well that's too bad.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I have a question......

 

If Stafford ends up in Detroit or Vancouver, and scores an average of 30-35 goals and wins a Cup in the next 3 years.....what will people say?

 

If Roy ends up on a team with some natural leaders and a coach who is respected, and puts up an 80 point pace the rest of the year and suddenly plays the puck hard.....what will people say?

 

 

Every move that Regier and Ruff make together is another wasted opportunity. Now you have the owner calling out your Franchise Goaltender in the media. But we all know how mentally strong Miller is, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Why are Pegula/Black going to bat so hard for Ruff? Miller wasn't the reason Pittsburgh outhit Buffalo 18-5 after 2 periods. Miller wasn't the reason Sabres defensemen backpeddled into their own zone consistantly. Yet the talking points have sure made the rounds the past few weeks about Ruff being secure and a non-issue.

 

I am not a Miller appologist, you know this. But for the owner to come out and slam him in his first public comment on ANYTHING about this team in quite a while......that's not good.

 

If this team is the problem, and I don't disagree......why in the hell would you leave the same people who put the team together and were responsible for their nurturing and development....IN CHARGE TO MAKE FURTHER ROSTER MOVES???

 

If this team sold off parts last deadline (Yeah Scott, many of us thought that was the smart play), and brought in 2 or 3 true leaders with an on-ice and off ice presence (would have been much easier to do with a bunch of extra picks), then you could have salvaged this team and even let Lindy have a shot at coaching them. It is getting so far past the point of no return now, that all the money in the world isn't going to save this ship.

 

I really want to give Larry Quinn a Christmas hug. Larry....you win.....you have created a true masterpiece.....

[Robviously]

If Stafford ends up in Detroit or Vancouver, and scores an average of 30-35 goals and wins a Cup in the next 3 years.....what will people say?

 

If Roy ends up on a team with some natural leaders and a coach who is respected, and puts up an 80 point pace the rest of the year and suddenly plays the puck hard.....what will people say?

 

:doh: Are we really supposed to never make a trade again because it might blow up in our face?

[nfreeman]

People, well let's narrow that down, me and you, see it differently. You have a different perspective than I. You've been around since what I assume is near inception (no insult meant). I been around since Vanek and Roy were born. I think, since I've been watching and following the Sabres, they done fairly well with what they've had. Got real close a few times and at least stayed competitive most years through the thick and thin of owners.

 

I AM expecting more out of this team, more from management and coaches, don't get me wrong there. It IS a pure waste of my emotional time to bitch and complain about how they win, how they lose, how they talk to the press, how they get blown out once in a while.

 

What do I want to see happen? I want my Sabres back. ALL of them. I want the first two games of this season back. I want them to play hard and throw the puck at the net like they did in those first two games as much as possible.

 

Who do I want gone? Stafford's one. Roy may be another. Those moves are next to impossible to make right now with the injuries they have.

 

After X-mas the team should be falling back into place. Myers, Boyes, Leino, Kaleta, Ennis, and most likely a healed Gerbe. I don't think one of the injured is affecting this team right now. It's all of them put together. I'd give it 10 games after they are all back to proclaim judgement.

 

Out of the mouths of babes...

 

I have a question......

 

If Stafford ends up in Detroit or Vancouver, and scores an average of 30-35 goals and wins a Cup in the next 3 years.....what will people say?

 

If Roy ends up on a team with some natural leaders and a coach who is respected, and puts up an 80 point pace the rest of the year and suddenly plays the puck hard.....what will people say?

 

Every move that Regier and Ruff make together is another wasted opportunity. Now you have the owner calling out your Franchise Goaltender in the media. But we all know how mentally strong Miller is, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Why are Pegula/Black going to bat so hard for Ruff? Miller wasn't the reason Pittsburgh outhit Buffalo 18-5 after 2 periods. Miller wasn't the reason Sabres defensemen backpeddled into their own zone consistantly. Yet the talking points have sure made the rounds the past few weeks about Ruff being secure and a non-issue.

 

I am not a Miller appologist, you know this. But for the owner to come out and slam him in his first public comment on ANYTHING about this team in quite a while......that's not good.

 

If this team is the problem, and I don't disagree......why in the hell would you leave the same people who put the team together and were responsible for their nurturing and development....IN CHARGE TO MAKE FURTHER ROSTER MOVES???

 

If this team sold off parts last deadline (Yeah Scott, many of us thought that was the smart play), and brought in 2 or 3 true leaders with an on-ice and off ice presence (would have been much easier to do with a bunch of extra picks), then you could have salvaged this team and even let Lindy have a shot at coaching them. It is getting so far past the point of no return now, that all the money in the world isn't going to save this ship.

 

I really want to give Larry Quinn a Christmas hug. Larry....you win.....you have created a true masterpiece.....

 

And if Roy is unloaded and the team suddenly takes off -- in the exact fashion it did last year -- what will other people say?

 

It may very well be time to can DR and/or LR. But the idea of doing so in order to invigorate Roy and Stafford makes me sick. (And, I would venture to say, would be a poor hockey decision.)

[...]

:doh: Are we really supposed to never make a trade again because it might blow up in our face?

 

That's the wrong conclusion. The right conclusion is that the Sabres need to dump Larcy and Dindy first.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

:doh: Are we really supposed to never make a trade again because it might blow up in our face?

 

You don't let Darcy make the trade.....that's the point.

 

This entire team is a capped-out product of Darcy and Lindy. When people said last year, "Oh, how bad can it get? Let's see what they can do with the shackles off!"

 

Well....now you need to sell low because you need cap space and are clinging to the hope of making the playoffs.

 

Move whoever you want to move......just have a different GM and coach pulling the trigger.

[darksabre]

 

 

You don't let Darcy make the trade.....that's the point.

 

This entire team is a capped-out product of Darcy and Lindy. When people said last year, "Oh, how bad can it get? Let's see what they can do with the shackles off!"

 

Well....now you need to sell low because you need cap space and are clinging to the hope of making the playoffs.

 

Move whoever you want to move......just have a different GM and coach pulling the trigger.

 

Doing both is a great way to destroy a team. Either you trade someone or you fire your coach. Each option causes some disruption, but combining the two would make a huge mess.

[...]

Doing both is a great way to destroy a team. Either you trade someone or you fire your coach. Each option causes some disruption, but combining the two would make a huge mess.

 

Why? They're no closer to winning the Cup this year if they take the conservative approach. Why not get it over with if the pieces they think can do it going forward are available? I'm not saying those pieces are available, however I am saying that if there are opportunities, I would prefer they take them no matter how drastic it seems in the (very) short term.

Edited December 19, 2011 by sizzlemeister