Stafford needs to go

[Eleven]

I think you have to separate motivation and morale. If your morale is down, your motivation may be lacking.

 

If you had Iginla and Doan in here the past 3 years, or someone at their physical, skill and leadership level....and a coach who valued physical play, I think Stafford has the tools to be a consistant 30ish goal scorer. It's like a preacher's hot daughter having to work the stripclub.......someone's going to have to show her how to do it because Daddy sure hasn't.

 

He has the tools, and the know-how (he did put up 30 last year, right?) but not the motivation OR morale (which, wow, suddenly disappeared? Same coach last year...). That's the problem. Your analogy, while humorous, is inapt.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Eleven

[Weave]

He has the tools, and the know-how (he did put up 30 last year, right?) but not the motivation OR morale (which, wow, suddenly disappeared? Same coach last year...). That's the problem. Your analogy, while humorous, is inapt.

 

A big payday can be a helluva motivator.

[Eleven]

A big payday can be a helluva motivator.

 

Which is why I didn't like the big payday. I don't like big contracts to players who just had a good year in a contract year. DeLuca had a huge problem with it, too, and (not for the first time, but it is somewhat rare) I completely agreed w/ him. It would have been better to get the RFA compensation.

[Taro T]

^This.

 

It may sound simplistic, but motivation is a personal choice. It's just not a coach's job to constantly have to motivate his players. That's not to say that coaches don't lose teams due to being tuned out, etc. That happens and maybe it's happening with Lindy. But a player's motivation MUST come from within or it won't come at all.

 

I think Prince Nonchalant simply doesn't care enough about being a hockey player. Let alone a good one. Oh, he may well bust a nut or two for a while for a new coach but players like him will usually revert to form.

 

It's a shame, too. Clearly talented, clearly capable. Clearly just doesn't give a crap.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I don't think it's so much that as he simply seems unwilling to play to his size unless he is 'trying to right an injustice' like when Neal destroyed Drury.

 

I was hoping he'd eventually come around and grow into playing with an edge. I don't see it happening anywhere close to a regular enough basis. He reminds me a lot of Gratton. And even though we're all sick of his routine, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he has legit trade value.

 

Though I expect he does have trade value (much like Gratton often did; there's always somebody that thinks they're smart enough to bring out more in a player than the current bunch that aren't getting full potential out of him) I'd prefer to see him traded sooner in a trade the Sabres 'lose' rather than wait to see him end up in one they 'win.' He and Roy are emblematic of what issues this team has in their own respective ways. Stafford too often doesn't find the will to play the role the Sabres NEED him to play, and Roy simply CAN NOT get players around him to raise their level of play and far too often seems to have linemates that have their play deteriorate when playing with him. The sum of the parts combined when Roy is one of them always seems less than the sum of the parts individually.

 

Though that criticism of Roy probably isn't fair to him, the Sabres have him wear a letter (at least for 1/2 of the games) and you simply can't have one of your leaders lowering the quality of play of those around him. By accepting the leadership mantle, Roy inherently agreed to lead. And he simply doesn't. Stafford as well doesn't lead, though it's a different brand of non-leadership. He rarely steps up and plays to his size; he has a ton of raw talent but doesn't want to play the way they need him to play. And not playing how the team needs you to play is a terrible thing for a 'leader' to teach the young guys.

 

I really expect the team in the long run will be better off moving the both of them sooner for less than waiting to make a deal where the Sabres 'robbed' the other team. There are so many youngsters on this team getting their 1st taste of NHL action and these are the guys that management appears to expect them to look up to. That has to stop.

[Weave]

Which is why I didn't like the big payday. I don't like big contracts to players who just had a good year in a contract year. DeLuca had a huge problem with it, too, and (not for the first time, but it is somewhat rare) I completely agreed w/ him. It would have been better to get the RFA compensation.

 

I didn't like the payday either but was willing to accept that the year he had put his value there. I was among the minority that wanted to see us get something for him at the deadline. Either way, now we are stuck with a guy who was obviously working towards a payday he's now got in hand.

 

I am intrigued by GoDD's post. Obviously it is speculation and there is no way to prove him right/wrong, but it sure makes me wonder what could've been with Stafford if he had someone on the team with his skillset that he could've used as an on ice example.

 

By the same token, maybe his game changes immediately if those sort of players were to suddenly show up on our roster with him. For example, I don't recall Nathan Horton being particularly hard to play against in Florida yet he sure picked up an edge he uses now and again while playing on a roster filled with edgy players. Funny how that works too.

Edited January 2, 2012 by weave

[Eleven]

I don't think it's so much that as he simply seems unwilling to play to his size unless he is 'trying to right an injustice' like when Neal destroyed Drury.

 

I was hoping he'd eventually come around and grow into playing with an edge. I don't see it happening anywhere close to a regular enough basis. He reminds me a lot of Gratton. And even though we're all sick of his routine, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find he has legit trade value.

 

Though I expect he does have trade value (much like Gratton often did; there's always somebody that thinks they're smart enough to bring out more in a player than the current bunch that aren't getting full potential out of him) I'd prefer to see him traded sooner in a trade the Sabres 'lose' rather than wait to see him end up in one they 'win.' He and Roy are emblematic of what issues this team has in their own respective ways. Stafford too often doesn't find the will to play the role the Sabres NEED him to play, and Roy simply CAN NOT get players around him to raise their level of play and far too often seems to have linemates that have their play deteriorate when playing with him. The sum of the parts combined when Roy is one of them always seems less than the sum of the parts individually.

 

Though that criticism of Roy probably isn't fair to him, the Sabres have him wear a letter (at least for 1/2 of the games) and you simply can't have one of your leaders lowering the quality of play of those around him. By accepting the leadership mantle, Roy inherently agreed to lead. And he simply doesn't. Stafford as well doesn't lead, though it's a different brand of non-leadership. He rarely steps up and plays to his size; he has a ton of raw talent but doesn't want to play the way they need him to play. And not playing how the team needs you to play is a terrible thing for a 'leader' to teach the young guys.

 

I really expect the team in the long run will be better off moving the both of them sooner for less than waiting to make a deal where the Sabres 'robbed' the other team. There are so many youngsters on this team getting their 1st taste of NHL action and these are the guys that management appears to expect them to look up to. That has to stop.

 

I agree with most of that. There is one big difference between Stafford and Roy, as a few have pointed out: Trading Roy means the Sabres need one MORE center, and the team already is weak there. Trading Stafford doesn't. While I am not against trading Derek Roy, he has to bring an NHL-ready center in return. I'd trade Stafford for draft picks, on the other hand.

[Taro T]

I agree with most of that. There is one big difference between Stafford and Roy, as a few have pointed out: Trading Roy means the Sabres need one MORE center, and the team already is weak there. Trading Stafford doesn't. While I am not against trading Derek Roy, he has to bring an NHL-ready center in return. I'd trade Stafford for draft picks, on the other hand.

Absolutely, they'd need another center coming back if Roy goes (either in the trade for Roy or a companion deal). I honestly wouldn't mind the center coming back for Roy (or in parallel w/ Roy leaving) being in the highly rated prospect mode rather than an established NHLer. Though they'd started the year on pace to get into the playoffs at the quarter pole, they fell off that pace by 3 points in the 3rd 10 game segment and will fall at least 3 and possibly 7 more in this current 10 game segment.

 

I believe Miller is still bothered by the neck injury that kept him out of a few games after the Lucic hit (and wouldn't be surprised to learn that he actually sustained that injury about 2 weeks prior to the associated concussion). If Miller can't play near 100%, I don't see this team being able to regain enough of the lost points to recover a playoff spot. (I'd actually expect to see them fall a bit further off pace during the next 10 game segment and then start playing better w/ 30 or so games left.) While I'd prefer to see deals that don't fully scuttle this season in favor of the future, I am not willing to see any deals right now that sacrifice the future for the present. So I don't need to see a current #1 or #2 center coming back for Roy.

 

I doubt that Roy gets traded, so what they'd need coming back for him is, unfortunately, moot.

[TheChimp]

Not to mention freeing them up to bring in a real player...if they can figure out what that is.

Well think about this, too. Gaustad, Boyes, and Hecht are all UFA and that's 9.825 mil freed up at just the time guys like Kassian, Foligno, and Szczechura, Tropp, who else.... are ready, all being paid less than a mil apiece or maybe re-signed at 1.5 or so in Kassian's case...so you go and also free up a possible 8 more million by losing Roy and Stafford, and we instantly have enough for an elite Center for Vanek and Pominville. Again. And maybe with Darcy and Lindy NOT here by then, maybe we can actually target and acquire said Centerman and not ruin his career by signing him. Edited January 2, 2012 by TheChimp

[qwksndmonster]

Well think about this, too. Gaustad, Boyes, and Hecht are all UFA and that's 9.825 mil freed up at just the time guys like Kassian, Foligno, and Szczechura, Tropp, who else.... are ready, all being paid less than a mil apiece or maybe re-signed at 1.5 or so in Kassian's case...so you go and also free up a possible 8 more million by losing Roy and Stafford, and we instantly have enough for an elite Center for Vanek and Pominville. Again. And maybe with Darcy and Lindy NOT here by then, maybe we can actually target and acquire said Centerman and not ruin his career by signing him.

We have Kassian at 870,000 a year for the next 2 seasons.

 

Elite centers don't grow on trees.

[Marvelo]

 

It may sound simplistic, but motivation is a personal choice. It's just not a coach's job to constantly have to motivate his players. That's not to say that coaches don't lose teams due to being tuned out, etc. That happens and maybe it's happening with Lindy. But a player's motivation MUST come from within or it won't come at all.

 

I think Prince Nonchalant simply doesn't care enough about being a hockey player. Let alone a good one. Oh, he may well bust a nut or two for a while for a new coach but players like him will usually revert to form.

 

It's a shame, too. Clearly talented, clearly capable. Clearly just doesn't give a crap.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

....which reminds me of the story when Charlie Sheen kicked off his book tour in Detroit.

 

(NY Daily News)

 

Deafening boos rained down on Charlie Sheen Saturday night as the self-destructing star's national tour opened with a thud in Detroit.

The 5,100 fans packed into the Fox Theatre quickly turned on Sheen as he reeled off a series of barely comprehensible one-liners.

"I already got your money, dude," the former "Two and a Half Men" star shouted at one point amid a chorus of jeers.

 

If Buffalo fans can't force a trade from its seemingly unconcerned management, then they can boo the offending players mercilessly. I'd like to see the fans rain boos down on players like Stafford whenever he touches the puck.

[LGR4GM]

I believe if I read the dates correctly that last season 3 of the 4 stafford hat tricks came without Roy in the lineup. Clearly there is a disconnect there between those two. I think it was mentioned somewhere that players tend to play the way everyone else does around them, especially young players... Roy plays soft = Stafford playing soft?

[LabattBlue]

..I am not willing to see any deals right now that sacrifice the future for the present.

I agree, and this is why I hate deadline deals to improve the team unless they are a legitimate Cup contender.

[North Buffalo]

Stafford needs to go, I would even be willing to put him on waivers and send him down to save money and hope someone grabs him. 'nuff said.

 

Roy I believe still needs time working out that knee and as others have said, I wouldn't trade him unless you got a talented center in return. His game appears a step slow and his mistakes seem to be a result of that. I see his hustle improving. Whatever you think of his leadership... not. He is more a 2nd or talented 3rd line center.

 

I haven't believed in dumping Ruff, but now I am not sure. I still can't figure if it is talent on this team that is lacking. But Regier needs to go. It is unconscionable that he hasn't gotten a decent center and kept drafting Defense. They have so many defenders in the pipeline is it scary, What gives, even a blind man could figure out there needed to be something done about the center position 3 years ago when they lost Drury and Briere.

 

I am tired of stating the obvious.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for Clark MacArthur at the deadline last year, and he was in the same situation as Stafford. At the very least you could have gotten a 2 and 3, and saved $4 mil in cap space.....or $8 mil if you were a seller and didn't trade for Boyes.....or $11.5 mil if you took a pick for Hecht.....and a 2nd for Connolly.....and a 2nd for Montador......

 

What Team Sunshine+Kittens needs to understand, is that every time you cry for patience, we hit a crossroads like last trade deadline where Darcy remained and went for a feel-good push towards 8th place and a 1st round loss, instead of collecting a cupboard full of picks and unloading the salary of blah players.

[qwksndmonster]

Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for Clark MacArthur at the deadline last year, and he was in the same situation as Stafford. At the very least you could have gotten a 2 and 3, and saved $4 mil in cap space.....or $8 mil if you were a seller and didn't trade for Boyes.....or $11.5 mil if you took a pick for Hecht.....and a 2nd for Connolly.....and a 2nd for Montador......

 

What Team Sunshine+Kittens needs to understand, is that every time you cry for patience, we hit a crossroads like last trade deadline where Darcy remained and went for a feel-good push towards 8th place and a 1st round loss, instead of collecting a cupboard full of picks and unloading the salary of blah players.

I've said this elsewhere, so I'll say it again here. It's hard to unload players while they're playing well. The team as a whole was playing very well at the deadline last season. Your post makes it seem like a 1st round loss was the ceiling for the Sabres, but they could have very easily gotten to the ECF with a bit of luck in game six (those Caps weren't going anywhere).

[Eleven]

Toronto turned down a 1st and 3rd for Clark MacArthur at the deadline last year, and he was in the same situation as Stafford. At the very least you could have gotten a 2 and 3, and saved $4 mil in cap space.....or $8 mil if you were a seller and didn't trade for Boyes.....or $11.5 mil if you took a pick for Hecht.....and a 2nd for Connolly.....and a 2nd for Montador......

 

What Team Sunshine+Kittens needs to understand, is that every time you cry for patience, we hit a crossroads like last trade deadline where Darcy remained and went for a feel-good push towards 8th place and a 1st round loss, instead of collecting a cupboard full of picks and unloading the salary of blah players.

 

I'm not sure if the fact that I realize that firing the coach won't help the team makes me a part of "Team Sunshine + Kittens" or whatever you want to call it, but I know my feelings regarding Stafford are not new. I remember one post last year where I promised not to rag on Stafford for a whole week after he had a hat trick against Boston, but I basically wanted him off of the team almost as much as I wanted Connolly off of the team.

 

The best move would have been to give him a qualifying offer and see what the RFA compensation would have been for letting him go. Quicksand is right; it wouldn't have been a good idea to unload him at the deadline for draft picks. A player, sure, but not draft picks.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I've said this elsewhere, so I'll say it again here. It's hard to unload players while they're playing well. The team as a whole was playing very well at the deadline last season. Your post makes it seem like a 1st round loss was the ceiling for the Sabres, but they could have very easily gotten to the ECF with a bit of luck in game six (those Caps weren't going anywhere).

 

The Sabres are in 12th place halfway through a season where they are the highest paid team in the league.

 

I think we have firmly established a 1st round loss was the ceiling for last year's team.

 

With a little bit of luck and facing close to 40% backup goaltenders last year, they managed to squeak into the playoffs the last week of the season.

 

With a little bit of luck, I will win $150 million in Powerball tonight and buy everyone on the board season tickets next year.

[Weave]

The Sabres are in 12th place halfway through a season where they are the highest paid team in the league.

 

I think we have firmly established a 1st round loss was the ceiling for last year's team.

 

Just thought this was worth repeating. And I am willing to go on the record now as saying the same for this season too.

 

ETA- assuming the same roster at the end of the season of course.

Edited January 2, 2012 by weave

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I'm not sure if the fact that I realize that firing the coach won't help the team makes me a part of "Team Sunshine + Kittens" or whatever you want to call it, but I know my feelings regarding Stafford are not new. I remember one post last year where I promised not to rag on Stafford for a whole week after he had a hat trick against Boston, but I basically wanted him off of the team almost as much as I wanted Connolly off of the team.

 

The best move would have been to give him a qualifying offer and see what the RFA compensation would have been for letting him go. Quicksand is right; it wouldn't have been a good idea to unload him at the deadline for draft picks. A player, sure, but not draft picks.

 

I know your thoughts on Stafford but that's the thing. Darcy takes any success of a player under 30 and continues to project continued improvement on them going forward. The thought that they may have peaked out and may remain stagnant or even regress never seems to enter his mind when valuing his players. We hear it year after year that the core is "young" and will improve.

 

Buy low, sell high.....simple formula. You may have a guy that you love and value, but if he is hot and you can get something you need by using him.....you have to do it. If you like 2 companies, stock A and stock B, and they are both trading at $10 but you think they are both worth $20.........and you invest all your money into stock A and it goes to $17 in short order while stock B goes to $12 but you still think it's worth $20.......isn't it smart to take money out of stock A and put it in stock B? Now you can buy the same amount of shares in stock B and still have $5 a share left in profit which could convert into a draft pick or another player using this scenario.

 

What Darcy does is says...."Oh....look at the stock at $17....maybe it will go to $30!" Then he sits on it, and next year it is still at $17...or down to $15....or even up to $20.....but at the same time stock B may just have well jumped from $12 to $20.....or it could have even gone to $15.....but for a trade value, you still more than make out by swapping from A to B and banking your profits.

 

Now your stock A went from $17 last year to $8 this year. You can sell and cut your loses, or get a CEO and CFO in here that can manage the company correctly and get the stock closer to where it belongs.

[Huckleberry]

A roster overhaul is much needed, some might better consider a career change to

 

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

A roster overhaul is much needed, some might better consider a career change to

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGwludVZ4jo

 

Dude.....I'd be more than happy if out team was Bearforce.

 

Problem is they are more like Twinkforce.

 

Sweet vid...thanks....

[Eleven]

I know your thoughts on Stafford but that's the thing. Darcy takes any success of a player under 30 and continues to project continued improvement on them going forward. The thought that they may have peaked out and may remain stagnant or even regress never seems to enter his mind when valuing his players. We hear it year after year that the core is "young" and will improve.

 

Buy low, sell high.....simple formula. You may have a guy that you love and value, but if he is hot and you can get something you need by using him.....you have to do it. If you like 2 companies, stock A and stock B, and they are both trading at $10 but you think they are both worth $20.........and you invest all your money into stock A and it goes to $17 in short order while stock B goes to $12 but you still think it's worth $20.......isn't it smart to take money out of stock A and put it in stock B? Now you can buy the same amount of shares in stock B and still have $5 a share left in profit which could convert into a draft pick or another player using this scenario.

 

What Darcy does is says...."Oh....look at the stock at $17....maybe it will go to $30!" Then he sits on it, and next year it is still at $17...or down to $15....or even up to $20.....but at the same time stock B may just have well jumped from $12 to $20.....or it could have even gone to $15.....but for a trade value, you still more than make out by swapping from A to B and banking your profits.

 

Now your stock A went from $17 last year to $8 this year. You can sell and cut your loses, or get a CEO and CFO in here that can manage the company correctly and get the stock closer to where it belongs.

 

Well, they can't keep buying low and selling high all the time, either. They have to keep some of the talent. Otherwise, they become a farm team for the rest of the league.

 

But Stafford ain't it!

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Well, they can't keep buying low and selling high all the time, either. They have to keep some of the talent. Otherwise, they become a farm team for the rest of the league.

 

But Stafford ain't it!

 

When is the last time we bought low or sold high?

[Eleven]

When is the last time we bought low or sold high?

 

June 25.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

June 25.

 

fair....and how many ribbons worth of misses have we wrapped that present up with?