Stafford needs to go

[darksabre]

Sorry, but it does.

 

The epitome of apathy is the idea that things are as they are and there is nothing to be done to change it. Agreeing that some minor or cosmetic changes need to be made doesn't make it any less apathetic. It's a combination of apathy and holding on to a dream of a Cup. Sadly the apathy is winning.

 

Where do you come up with this sh*t? The first thing I said was that I understand the team's position and the need to make changes. But there's a difference between bringing in Zubrus at the trade deadline and trading away players like Roy or Stafford for picks, or hiring Teppo Numminen vs. firing Lindy Ruff.

 

I'm not advocating "cosmetic" changes. I'm advocating real changes. Within reason.

 

That is NOT apathetic. It's a realization that the level of risk doesn't always equal the level of reward.

Edited December 20, 2011 by d4rksabre

[dEnnis the Menace]

Where do you come up with this sh*t? The first thing I said was that I understand the team's position and the need to make changes. But there's a difference between bringing in Zubrus at the trade deadline and trading away players like Roy or Stafford for picks, or hiring Teppo Numminen vs. firing Lindy Ruff.

 

I'm not advocating "cosmetic" changes. I'm advocating real changes. Within reason.

 

That is NOT apathetic. It's a realization that the level of risk doesn't always equal the level of reward.

 

exactly! well put sir.

[deluca67]

Where do you come up with this sh*t? The first thing I said was that I understand the team's position and the need to make changes. But there's a difference between bringing in Zubrus at the trade deadline and trading away players like Roy or Stafford for picks, or hiring Teppo Numminen vs. firing Lindy Ruff.

 

I'm not advocating "cosmetic" changes. I'm advocating real changes. Within reason.

 

That is NOT apathetic. It's a realization that the level of risk doesn't always equal the level of reward.

"Real changes. Within Reason." Look at those words. Under that idea you go forward with a course of action that you have already limited.

 

Lets' make a list of things that are within reason.

 

"The Sabres won't win a Stanley Cup in my lifetime."

 

exactly! well put sir.

Apathy spreads. :(

[dEnnis the Menace]

"Real changes. Within Reason." Look at those words. Under that idea you go forward with a course of action that you have already limited.

 

Lets' make a list of things that are within reason.

 

"The Sabres won't win a Stanley Cup in my lifetime."

 

 

Apathy spreads. :(

 

it's not spreading if I had the same point of view to start with... :wallbash:

[darksabre]

"Real changes. Within Reason." Look at those words. Under that idea you go forward with a course of action that you have already limited.

 

Lets' make a list of things that are within reason.

 

"The Sabres won't win a Stanley Cup in my lifetime."

 

 

Apathy spreads. :(

 

By your logic, the only way to affect change on this team is by trading the entire roster, firing all of the Sabres staff, and moving the team to a completely different city. Is that delimited enough for you? Or would you like to act even more ridiculous today?

[Eleven]

People, well let's narrow that down, me and you, see it differently. You have a different perspective than I. You've been around since what I assume is near inception (no insult meant). I been around since Vanek and Roy were born. I think, since I've been watching and following the Sabres, they done fairly well with what they've had. Got real close a few times and at least stayed competitive most years through the thick and thin of owners.

 

I AM expecting more out of this team, more from management and coaches, don't get me wrong there. It IS a pure waste of my emotional time to bitch and complain about how they win, how they lose, how they talk to the press, how they get blown out once in a while.

 

What do I want to see happen? I want my Sabres back. ALL of them. I want the first two games of this season back. I want them to play hard and throw the puck at the net like they did in those first two games as much as possible.

 

Who do I want gone? Stafford's one. Roy may be another. Those moves are next to impossible to make right now with the injuries they have.

 

After X-mas the team should be falling back into place. Myers, Boyes, Leino, Kaleta, Ennis, and most likely a healed Gerbe. I don't think one of the injured is affecting this team right now. It's all of them put together. I'd give it 10 games after they are all back to proclaim judgement.

 

This is your best post in your nearly four years here. Strong, and right on.

[spndnchz]

By your logic, the only way to affect change on this team is by trading the entire roster, firing all of the Sabres staff, and moving the team to a completely different city. Is that delimited enough for you? Or would you like to act even more ridiculous today?

 

But but but only 5 out of 12 forwards and a d-man from Rochester right now. They should be doing soooo much better than 7th place. /apathy

[K-9]

By your logic, the only way to affect change on this team is by trading the entire roster, firing all of the Sabres staff, and moving the team to a completely different city. Is that delimited enough for you? Or would you like to act even more ridiculous today?

 

Well, there's the fact that if everything is blown up then it would be another several year wait, AT BEST, before they win the cup. Not to mention no playoffs this year. Unless he thinks that replacing the coaches and roster means getting all playoff caliber coaches and players in return.

 

Changes? Yes.

 

Meaningful changes? Indeed. I'd consider moving two assistant Cs as meaningful.

 

Wholesale, blow it up changes? Only for knee-jerk reactionaries.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[deluca67]

By your logic, the only way to affect change on this team is by trading the entire roster, firing all of the Sabres staff, and moving the team to a completely different city. Is that delimited enough for you? Or would you like to act even more ridiculous today?

Were fans excited about Pegua because he would play it safe or because the idea of an owner willing to "go big or go home" was a dream come true?

 

My logic is as sound as it gets. You buy a failing restaurant and maintain the same general manger and chef but are willing to pay more for sanitation removal, you cant reasonably expect success.

[spndnchz]

Well, there's the fact that if everything is blown up then it would be another several year wait, AT BEST, before they win the cup. Not to mention no playoffs this year. Unless he thinks that replacing the coaches and roster means getting all playoff caliber coaches and players in return.

 

Changes? Yes.

 

Meaningful changes? Indeed. I'd consider moving two assistant Cs as meaningful.

 

Wholesale, blow it up changes? Only for knee-jerk reactionaries.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

If you blow it up he'll have a good couple more years to bitch about things. /apathy

[Eleven]

If it's apathy, and someone's still hanging around this board, well, someone either doesn't understand what "apathy" means or has some other problem.

[K-9]

If you blow it up he'll have a good couple more years to bitch about things. /apathy

 

You know, that' true. What would The Stormcloud do with a Stanley Cup winner? Nothing.

 

The more I read about how much the Sabres suck, the more I'm convinced they want, no need, the Sabres to suck. It fills a void or something. Sad, really.

 

Apathy indeed.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[spndnchz]

You know, that' true. What would The Stormcloud do with a Stanley Cup winner? Nothing.

 

The more I read about how much the Sabres suck, the more I'm convinced they want, no need, the Sabres to suck. It fills a void or something. Sad, really.

 

Apathy indeed.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

I picture a sticky paged Game Night program.

[nfreeman]

The broom may come, but the mess will be 3x as big as it could have been.

 

Right now it is only twice as big.

 

That's why the complainers, keep complaining!

 

Repeating it over and over doesn't make it true. You are right that they could've gotten a few draft picks for TC and Stafford at the deadline last year but overall the Sabres' cupboard is quite full. There are also no real albatross contracts albeit a few that are overpriced.

 

I guess it is the classic "which came first" question. Is it the coach? Is it the players? Is it something else such as injuries? I honestly don't know. If I just spent a gazzilion dollars on a team and dressing room and am in it for the long haul, I am taking Chz's approach. Get healthy (one can hope). See the results. And if it still isn't performing then, I am getting a new hockey guy in as GM to figure it out for me.

 

Good post.

 

I want to believe this, I truly do, it's just I heard this before and nothing ever happens. I have no reason to put any faith in the idea that this off-season will be any different. They already have the injury excuse firmly in place and you know Regier and Ruff can ride an excuse to death like no other. Regier will spend to the Cap again (poorly) next season and Ruff will be afforded the comfort of every excuse imaginable. We will be here at the same time next year in the same conversation and we all know it.

 

The answer to that question is really simple. If it is a few players than it is the individual players. If it is an entire roster of players continually not showing up at game time prepared and enthused about playing, than it is the coach. I hope that helps.

 

As to the first bolded part: while there is a part of me that feels a bit of dread about the potential truthiness of this, I really believe that TP is here to win the big prize, and more than one. It will happen. It will probably take longer than any of us wants (probably because the hockey gods are smiting all of us with a lengthy punishment for the Drury/Briere/Soupy debacle), but it will happen.

 

As to the 2nd bolded part: this is true, but I don't see it happening with the Sabres. It's not the entire roster, or even half of it, IMHO. But it's true of enough important guys that some of them have to go.

 

It's not apathy, it's realism. You're mistaking the two. I understand where this team is, and I understand that making some changes could fix it. Not wanting to burn the whole team down doesn't make me apathetic.

 

Another good one.

 

Agreed, I gave him the benefit of the doubt at the beginning when he showed up and starting throwing his weight around at the beginning of the season. But as typical of Stafford he is a lazy dweeb who has things other than hockey on his mind when he is on the ice. He is not a leader and it is time he steps up. Yes he has lots of talent, but carries a California attitude showing up in spirit only when it suits him.

 

Dump, put him on waivers, whatever... but agreed he is a cancer on this team. At least Roy puts in the effort as much as he appears to have lost a step. And Goose is what he is making due on his size, but lacks the talent of a much needed center. The Sabres are putting to much emphasis on their young D to carry them and the puck up the ice because of a dirth of experienced talent at center.

 

Looks like a long season. Maybe they would be better off finishing in the last 5. They sure could use a talented draft pick.

 

I know I should, but I'm having a hard time giving up on Stafford yet.

 

Does Stafford have to go if he scores six goals in the next five games? Do players on other teams in Stafford cap hit range, who are also underachieving, have to go too?

 

Obviously everyone would love for Stafford to find his game again. I personally think it's more a confidence and mental toughness issue than an effort issue, but I could be deluding myself.

 

And what's with bolding the entire post?

 

Where do you come up with this sh*t? The first thing I said was that I understand the team's position and the need to make changes. But there's a difference between bringing in Zubrus at the trade deadline and trading away players like Roy or Stafford for picks, or hiring Teppo Numminen vs. firing Lindy Ruff.

 

I'm not advocating "cosmetic" changes. I'm advocating real changes. Within reason.

 

That is NOT apathetic. It's a realization that the level of risk doesn't always equal the level of reward.

 

Well said.

 

This is your best post in your nearly four years here. Strong, and right on.

 

What about the dirty ones?

 

Well, there's the fact that if everything is blown up then it would be another several year wait, AT BEST, before they win the cup. Not to mention no playoffs this year. Unless he thinks that replacing the coaches and roster means getting all playoff caliber coaches and players in return.

 

Changes? Yes.

 

Meaningful changes? Indeed. I'd consider moving two assistant Cs as meaningful.

 

Wholesale, blow it up changes? Only for knee-jerk reactionaries.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

I agree completely with the bolded part, except that you are a bit off on the meaning of "reactionaries."

 

Were fans excited about Pegua because he would play it safe or because the idea of an owner willing to "go big or go home" was a dream come true?

 

My logic is as sound as it gets. You buy a failing restaurant and maintain the same general manger and chef but are willing to pay more for sanitation removal, you cant reasonably expect success.

 

Not "go big or go home." We want, and I think we're going to get, "Go big and be in the hunt every year."

[deluca67]

You know, that' true. What would The Stormcloud do with a Stanley Cup winner? Nothing.

 

The more I read about how much the Sabres suck, the more I'm convinced they want, no need, the Sabres to suck. It fills a void or something. Sad, really.

 

Apathy indeed.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Years of posting history prove you otherwise.

 

Not "go big or go home." We want, and I think we're going to get, "Go big and be in the hunt every year."

"Go Big and settle for what you get" is no plan for success.

 

I picture a sticky paged Game Night program.

Is that like a defense mechanism or something?

[Weave]

You know, that' true. What would The Stormcloud do with a Stanley Cup winner? Nothing.

 

The more I read about how much the Sabres suck, the more I'm convinced they want, no need, the Sabres to suck. It fills a void or something. Sad, really.

 

Apathy indeed.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Actually, until a few games ago Team Stormcloud was rather quiet and DeLuca in particular was uncommonly complementary of the little things he saw. The stirrings didn't start until after Lucic showed the team the yellow stripe down their back.

[K-9]

I picture a sticky paged Game Night program.

 

chz, I missed this earlier. Too funny for words.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

I agree completely with the bolded part, except that you are a bit off on the meaning of "reactionaries."

 

LOL! Guilty as charged. That's what happens when I get lazy with the language sometimes. Certainly didn't mean to inject any political overtones here.

 

Anyway, one who would want to make wholesale changes and blow up the team due to the performance of the team up to this point, would be having a knee-jerk reaction.

 

GO SABRES!!!

Edited December 20, 2011 by K-9

[K-9]

Years of posting history prove you otherwise.

 

And yet your years of piling up the whining posts would seem to prove me right as well. Unless you honestly think that your positive posts outnumber your negative posts? I suppose there's something to be said for being a storm cloud with an occasional silver lining though. It ain't all bad even it is most of the time.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Andrew Amerk]

 

Fair enough. I just choose to not let them put all of the poor play and losses on injuries. There is much more going on then just injuries with this team.

 

Yeah, a lack of heart and leadership on the bench and ice.

[darksabre]

Were fans excited about Pegua because he would play it safe or because the idea of an owner willing to "go big or go home" was a dream come true?

 

My logic is as sound as it gets. You buy a failing restaurant and maintain the same general manger and chef but are willing to pay more for sanitation removal, you cant reasonably expect success.

 

If your idea of sound logic is some burned out surfer catch phrase then you're in a worse way than I thought.

 

And your metaphor of a restaurant is no better than the mechanical metaphor that you argued against earlier. If you buy a restaurant and clean everything out of it you no longer have a restaurant. You have an empty building. Do you want a hockey team, or an empty arena? Because if you want a hockey team, you can't remove all of the pieces at once.

 

Pegula bought a restaurant and felt the staff was sufficient but it needed some new tools and equipment. These changes didn't work. Now he must evaluate the staff. Is it his managers or his servers? Is it his cooks? Maybe you fire a manager. Or you hire some new cooks. But you don't remove your entire staff and start from scratch or else you lose your business entirely.

 

If it's apathy, and someone's still hanging around this board, well, someone either doesn't understand what "apathy" means or has some other problem.

 

Excellent.

 

Years of posting history prove you otherwise.

 

 

"Go Big and settle for what you get" is no plan for success.

 

 

Is that like a defense mechanism or something?

 

Go big and end up with nothing isn't a good plan either.

[...]

Wow.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Actually, until a few games ago Team Stormcloud was rather quiet and DeLuca in particular was uncommonly complementary of the little things he saw. The stirrings didn't start until after Lucic showed the team the yellow stripe down their back.

 

 

Shush.......I'm pouring some Clorox into a squirtgun as we speak and am headed to the live manger scene at the church around the corner.

 

I'm aiming for Joseph, but if little J takes it in the eye....so be it.

[RazielSabre]

My observation isn't based on this season alone. Roy gets his points. I'm suure he'll get them this year too. But it's smoke and mirrors. He's consistently one fo the guys on this team that backs off when the game gets tough. Glides into loose pucks instead of going hard after them. He's prone to weak stick check attempts and lets off the gas in the D zone. He's not a guy who inlcudes hard work into his game and gets exposed when the opposing team is working their ass off. He's been playing that way for most of his career so this isn't a knee jerk reaction. I've had my fill of him.

 

At the moment, I'll take a lazy scorer over a hard working one who doesn't get the job done. We, however, have both. Goose is a tough, hard working center who I believe is a great role model as well.

 

I see. So now you are lumping in LabattBlue (the guy you actually responded to) with the chronic complainers. Nice. :rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to moderating if you are going to start throwing that stuff around.

 

 

Jsut sayin'....

 

Like it or not the biggest constant complainers on this board at the veterans, often not expressing any more discussion or opinion. This board is stagnating because of that. If SDS is trying to shake things up so the board doesn't die then all power to him.

 

People, well let's narrow that down, me and you, see it differently. You have a different perspective than I. You've been around since what I assume is near inception (no insult meant). I been around since Vanek and Roy were born. I think, since I've been watching and following the Sabres, they done fairly well with what they've had. Got real close a few times and at least stayed competitive most years through the thick and thin of owners.

 

I AM expecting more out of this team, more from management and coaches, don't get me wrong there. It IS a pure waste of my emotional time to bitch and complain about how they win, how they lose, how they talk to the press, how they get blown out once in a while.

 

What do I want to see happen? I want my Sabres back. ALL of them. I want the first two games of this season back. I want them to play hard and throw the puck at the net like they did in those first two games as much as possible.

 

Who do I want gone? Stafford's one. Roy may be another. Those moves are next to impossible to make right now with the injuries they have.

 

After X-mas the team should be falling back into place. Myers, Boyes, Leino, Kaleta, Ennis, and most likely a healed Gerbe. I don't think one of the injured is affecting this team right now. It's all of them put together. I'd give it 10 games after they are all back to proclaim judgement.

 

:clapping: +1

[Marvelo]

225 replies and counting. Maybe this lazy bum needs to go.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Like it or not the biggest constant complainers on this board at the veterans, often not expressing any more discussion or opinion. This board is stagnating because of that. If SDS is trying to shake things up so the board doesn't die then all power to him.

 

 

So let me get this straight........it IS possible for a few strong, entrenched voices to dominate philosophy and message to a point that it becomes so stale, that 90% of the others tune it out and no longer have the drive or will to perform here on a regular basis?

 

AAAAAANNNNND...............on top of it you highly support the owner of the structure to shake things up by chasing these few entrenched individuals away for the good of the entire group?

 

I'm gonna just step back and let that sink in for a minute...................

 

And Chz......feel free to move this post to the Lindy Ruff thread..........