Game Discussion Thread GDT: Ottawa at Buffalo 12/13/11 7:00PM

[nfreeman]

I agree with you on Roy. The only problem being your weakest position on the team and in the organization(center) would get even worse if they trade him.

 

That being said, if they trade him, I think the only viable solution over the next couple of years would be to try and trade for and/or sign a UFA center who is capable of putting up 50 or so points, but is more of a well rounded player. Finding the center who can put up 70+ points is not going to be easy, especially with DR at the helm.

 

You are right about the center position -- especially because Hecht is probably gone after this year -- but at this point it's a price I'm willing to pay. There will be a Hecht-like center available for $2.5MM or so in free agency, they'll probably re-sign Gaustad and Adam will hopefully be ready to be a legit #2 center next year.

 

And I'm sure Chewy will be very happy to stay on as next year's #1 center.

[darksabre]

DGW54321, on 13 December 2011 - 08:54 PM, said:

 

Apparently they are having a closed door meeting.

 

And why is Connolly my default avatar....yeesh.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That might be the most compelling indictment of Lindy's system ever.

His 15 points now for the Leafs (6 G, 9A) would put him in the top six in scoring on the Sabres.

 

Except for that it's not.

 

Connolly has been bitten by the injury bug twice already in Toronto. He's always been a decent player as long as he can stay healthy, but he never was healthy with the Sabres for the last few seasons. It's not Lindy's fault Timmy was always hurt.

[That Aud Smell]

I've been saying this for a while now and I'm going to keep doing so until someone convinces me otherwise: Roy is a net negative on this team, and not a small one. There's something about his personality and his game that materially contributes to losing. He's like the bizarro Drury -- whereas Drury brought out the best in his teammates, Roy brings out the worst.

QFT.

[darksabre]

 

 

You are right about the center position -- especially because Hecht is probably gone after this year -- but at this point it's a price I'm willing to pay. There will be a Hecht-like center available for $2.5MM or so in free agency, they'll probably re-sign Gaustad and Adam will hopefully be ready to be a legit #2 center next year.

 

And I'm sure Chewy will be very happy to stay on as next year's #1 center.

 

Yes please. It's time to finish removing the brat pack and their sand filled vaginas.

[Sabre Dance]

I have been a Stafford apologist forever. No more. That play was awful. But I just can't bring myself to let Lindy off the hook. When does it actually become the coaches fault in Buffalo? Either he's not getting through or they aren't getting it. Either way, we've tried enough combinations of players where I believe he's not getting through and it's now time to try a new coach.

When will something give? Pegula has been silent, the team has been painful to watch, and our captain can't even man up and say "Stafford needed to get back on him there and he didn't". I know people hate Ruff but when they play his system it works and when they do what staffy did tonight it looks like crap. If any team in the nhl needed a major shakeup of its top core players its this one.

 

Roy, Stafford, Hecht, Vanek, Pommers, Gaustad... someone or someones need to go and I know who my obvious two choices are. I used to love Roy and think he was great and defended him earlier this year but i dont think he fits on this particular team. Stafford just like sekera and leino and hecht and probably even miller are overpaid and overrated by their GM. 4 mil for 1 season of 30 goals and the only season over 50pts... subtract about 1 mil from that and your in the right ballpark.

 

idk anymore, this team is just painful to watch and they come off as slightly arrogant. Other teams have new players and they have gelled by now so that excuse can suck it. I almost want this season to go down in flames at this point. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity but sucking breeds change... we need change, big change (Darcy needs to go buh bye)

Another awful loss.

 

I don't believe that you can stand behind your coach and management staff anymore.

 

The highest payed team in the NHL played like chicken, again.

 

I don't believe it is a talent issue, but our coaching team is not able to get the power on the road.

 

I can't understand why we combine the less talented center with our best wingers. Nobody would do this. You give them minimum the second best available center ( which is Adam).

 

LA did it right, they send their coach home, we have to do it too. We need a shakeup like Pittsburgh before they made their run to the cup.

I disagree with the bolded statement. Ruff's system, in point of fact, has never been proven to "work". If it has been, we'd have some Cup banners in the rafters.

And before we go into the excuses of injuries during the Carolina series or other excuses, the bottom line is talent combined with hard work, doing the little things in games and proper roster make-up that creates the appropriate chemistry amongst the players is what gets it done. This current team doesn't have that, there are major holes in the roster, especially the forward ranks.

 

Ruff's system isn't going to fix that, and although he is a good coach, I don't see the outcome on the ice changing. He's had 3 roster turnovers since he took the reigns, and each one has failed. I don't believe it's just the players any longer, it's also his system that needs to change, otherwise we'll be seeing the same results we have seen for 13 seasons now IMHO.

I've been saying this for a while now and I'm going to keep doing so until someone convinces me otherwise: Roy is a net negative on this team, and not a small one. There's something about his personality and his game that materially contributes to losing. He's like the bizarro Drury -- whereas Drury brought out the best in his teammates, Roy brings out the worst.

 

The Sabres need to dump Roy. I'm not quite there yet with Stafford but I wouldn't be disappointed if he left as well. The question is whether to wait until the deadline, which is when their trade values will be highest -- I could see Roy fetching a low #1 pick -- but by then the Sabres' season might effectively be over. Unloading those 2 creates room for Gerbe and Boyes when they return, as well as an $8MM salary slot to bring in an elite player like Parise next summer.

 

As for the game last night -- the Sabres played well in parts and lousy in other parts (first 6 min. or so of the 1st period and most of the 3rd period). When they were up 2-1 and playing well in the 2nd period, though, that was the time for Stafford or Vanek or Pommer or SOMEONE who gets paid to score goals to pump in an insurance goal. But once again, no one steps up when a win is there for the taking and seizes it.

 

What is wrong with this team? On a number of occasions, there were three Sabres within 10 feet of a loose puck and a Senator beat them to it. So, do the players as a whole just not care? Do the coaches work them too hard in practice? Not hard enough? Do they dislike playing in Buffalo? Do they dislike playing for Ruff? Is the entire team playing like crap so that A) Ruff gets booted or B) they get traded to another city? When does Pegula realize that his words from last year are ringing quite hollow right now? Stanley Cup? Heck, this team would have trouble winning the Calder Cup. I think we are well past the time when excuses explain why the team isn't playing well; they have become simply excuses. I remain a fan (and always will), but I'm finding it very hard to find any positives with the whole situation right now. Whether the owner is Golisano or Pegula, to maintain the status quo and keep expecting things will get better is misplaced optimism at best and sheer lunacy at worst.

I don't know who needs to go, or stay or what but please do SOMEthing!

[Sabre Dance]

It is beginning to look like several people want out of Buffalo or perhaps, away from Lindy.

 

What, and leave that gorgeous new locker room? :rolleyes:

[CallawaySabres]

But 4 on 4 in overtime is man on man and Stafford knows it but couldn't even admit it after the game and all the captain could muster was that "we probably would like that play back.". That's all you need to know.

 

Wasn't being held accountable a major topic on the airwaves a few days back? These guys are all too timid to call each other out and last night, that is exactly what the Captain should have done to Stafford in the interview. They are all so afraid they won't get the invite to Miller's catwalk that they pussyfoot around every controversy.......

[spndnchz]

Sabres now with a negative goal differential.

 

Need better puck possession.

[darksabre]

Sabres now with a negative goal differential.

 

Need better puck possession.

 

So basically sit Roy, Stafford and Pominville, since those guys couldn't hang on to a puck if their lives depended on it.

[brandonmp15]

how are we going to sit Pominville when HE LEADS THE TEAM IN POINTS?

[nfreeman]

One other point about that game: I thought Weber looked pretty good, including on keep-ins at the offensive blue line, and I noticed that he and McNabb got plenty of PK shifts and 3rd period shifts.

[darksabre]

how are we going to sit Pominville when HE LEADS THE TEAM IN POINTS?

 

How many of those points are because of Vanek's production though?

 

 

[dEnnis the Menace]

How many of those points are because of Vanek's production though?

 

Most/almost all :bag:

[rbochan]

...It's not Lindy's fault Timmy was always hurt.

 

Perhaps his incredibly soft, non-hitting, system is Lindy "Hitting Doesn't Win Games" Ruff's fault.

[brandonmp15]

How many of those points are because of Vanek's production though?

 

I wont disagree with you on that comment, however Pommers and Vanek are the only two who are putting up points consistently and showing any signs of chemistry.

[carpandean]

And I'm sure Chewy will be very happy to stay on as next year's #1 center.

 

While you were certainly exaggerating a bit by slotting him as a #1 center, at this point I'd be fine with keeping him up full-time this season to see what he can do. I've really liked his game - though, admittedly, that could be due to the comparison with players that we're used to seeing. He's a pretty good example of hard work can make up for raw talent in the current NHL. Long term, he might make a decent #3 center given some more opportunity. I'm OK with trying to find that out.

 

 

Edit: on Connolly, don't dismiss the fact that he played for several season knowing that the fans hated him. He said as much to (I think) Paul Hamilton. As much as we want these guys to be machines, that will hurt anyone's game. Now that he's (temporarily, since Toronto would probably be far worse should things not go well for him) out from under that, he's playing better.

[Weave]

I'm not sure which team you've been watching for the past 12 months, but you seem to be forgetting very quickly who has been arguably the most energetic and hard-working player on the team in Nathan Gerbe. To see him put in the same basket as Drew Stafford or Derek Roy by intelligent people makes me a little ill to be honest.

 

Did you forget the playoffs last year where he was 100% hustle the entire serious when the rest of the team decided not to show up? Or how many times this season thus far has he been the only guy showing up? Quite often. I'm truly astounded... and look at his salary hit... it's nearly non-existent. You guys are off your rockers.

 

"Not what this team needs". Let's for a minute assume that Nathan Gerbe is the OPPOSITE of what this team needs. Then that would imply that what this team needs is a 6'3" 250 lber who can't skate, is afraid to play physically, and has a terrible work ethic.

 

I don't think I've ever been angry reading posts on this forum before, but already two posters that I typically respect have made what I consider to be very nearsighted posts and I am a bit boggled. /endrant

 

I don't know how to be delicate when I say this, so I won't try. Lose the emotion.

 

He works his arse off, noone is saying otherwise. But he's not having an impact on the games he's in. He's just not. Great guy probably. Works amazingly hard. Seems very coachable. Constantly working at high speed. But he is missing *something* that he needs to be an effective NHL LW. He's not scoring enough to justify putting him on a scoring line. He's not an effective energy line guy. He's not big enough to have good puck possession time. The only role that I could see working for him is as a defensive forward. And this roster doesn't have players that make sense to use in a lock down role. He doesn't fit on this team.

[Weave]

What is wrong with this team? On a number of occasions, there were three Sabres within 10 feet of a loose puck and a Senator beat them to it.

 

I wanted to respond specifically to this sentence because this was the most glaring thing I noticed yesterday. It was most evident particularly in the 3rd period. One instance in particular that drew my ire involved Derek Roy. the game was tied and about 3 minutes remained IIRC. There was a loose puck along the boards between the red line and Ottawa's blue line. Roy skated in on the loose puck and an Ottawa forward was also closing in on the puck. It looked like the footrace was going to result in a tie. Roy stopped short of the puck and reached out with his stick to take it. The Ottawa forward went in with speed, never slowed, and used his feet and stick to try to gain possession. And he used his body to prevent Roy from getting possession. The Ottawa forward made a much more aggressive attempt at the puck. The Ottawa forward easily got control, was untouched by Roy, and started a rush in the Sabres zone. I'm singling Roy out here but this play epitomized the Sbares game last night. I could just as easily used any of 6 or 7 Sabres names to describe the play and would have been accurate for last night.

[...]

Hi!

 

Because the search doesn't allow searches on words less than 4 characters we can not search for references to "Roy".

 

 

So, my point is not fair without being able to search that.

[frissonic]

Hi!

 

Because the search doesn't allow searches on words less than 4 characters we can not search for references to "Roy".

 

 

So, my point is not fair without being able to search that.

what about "roy " with a space after the y?

 

NM. worst search engine in the world. :)

[MattPie]

This is ludacris

 

Not a huge fan of your music, but welcome to the board!

[LaLaLaFontaine]

One good thing i forgot in my post.

 

Ehrhoff stepped in for Miller, after the bump.

 

This was a good life sign, but we need some ugly grunts to do such a job, basically a boxer type who really sent the guys home crying.

 

Ahhh the good old times with Ray, May and Barnaby.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I don't know how to be delicate when I say this, so I won't try. Lose the emotion.

 

He works his arse off, noone is saying otherwise. But he's not having an impact on the games he's in. He's just not. Great guy probably. Works amazingly hard. Seems very coachable. Constantly working at high speed. But he is missing *something* that he needs to be an effective NHL LW. He's not scoring enough to justify putting him on a scoring line. He's not an effective energy line guy. He's not big enough to have good puck possession time. The only role that I could see working for him is as a defensive forward. And this roster doesn't have players that make sense to use in a lock down role. He doesn't fit on this team.

 

I'm going to take you on here. I disagree.

 

Gerbe has plenty of talent. He scored a few goals last year that only a couple of people could, because he actually took the shot. He has, maybe "had", a can-do attitude. I am concerned that much like other players who have come up and impressed early with their "oomph", he got a talking to becaus ehe was going to be relied upon for a more regular role and needs to be more "responsible" in his play. I almost choked when I heard him tell Ray after the Lucic hit, "We have to concentrate on the game, that's for the refs to take care of." Very Staffordesque when he was removed a few years from being a rookie and sticking up for Drury.

 

One thing that I think has happened though is the refs are not giving Gerbe calls anymore. You can't punish a 6'3" guy for railing a small guy all the time. I think players respect his effort, but in reality he is coming down to earth on that factor. For a little guy, he is built like a bulldog though.

 

At the end of last year, I thought Gerbe and Weber were future letter wearers. Gerbe on a team like Boston would make a great 3rd line energy winger who can plunk in 12-15 goals on a regular basis. Heck, if we weren't so paranoid about defense and positioning here, gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta was a nice line and a perfect 4th line in the playoffs.

 

Even I'm dejected at this point. I think I will go on a holiday posting moratorium after today.

[darksabre]

I don't know where the post was made about the Sabres not pursuing the puck, but watching this Minnesota/Chicago game suddenly made me see something and here's what came to mind:

 

The Sabres play like the ice surface is overwhelmingly large.

 

I see Minny players taking shots from before they cross the blue line, getting to pucks like it's nothing, and generally looking like they have no problem getting to any spot on the ice.

 

But the Sabres seem afraid of the ice. As if they can't cover enough of it. It's a very weird sensation to watch and now I've figured out how to describe it.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm going to take you on here. I disagree.

 

Gerbe has plenty of talent. He scored a few goals last year that only a couple of people could, because he actually took the shot. He has, maybe "had", a can-do attitude. I am concerned that much like other players who have come up and impressed early with their "oomph", he got a talking to becaus ehe was going to be relied upon for a more regular role and needs to be more "responsible" in his play. I almost choked when I heard him tell Ray after the Lucic hit, "We have to concentrate on the game, that's for the refs to take care of." Very Staffordesque when he was removed a few years from being a rookie and sticking up for Drury.

 

One thing that I think has happened though is the refs are not giving Gerbe calls anymore. You can't punish a 6'3" guy for railing a small guy all the time. I think players respect his effort, but in reality he is coming down to earth on that factor. For a little guy, he is built like a bulldog though.

 

At the end of last year, I thought Gerbe and Weber were future letter wearers. Gerbe on a team like Boston would make a great 3rd line energy winger who can plunk in 12-15 goals on a regular basis. Heck, if we weren't so paranoid about defense and positioning here, gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta was a nice line and a perfect 4th line in the playoffs.

 

Even I'm dejected at this point. I think I will go on a holiday posting moratorium after today.

Stafford wasn't neutered. Standing up for Drury was a great moment , but he never played a very physical game.