I know it's the wrong time but Darcy has made some good picks

[nfreeman]

 

 

No that is what makes you a fan you prefer Lucics style of play. If you were the GM of this team would you trade your best player (Vanek) for Lucic? Who i would say is bostons 3-4 best palyer??? Would you make that trade? I say no. Vanek is consistent and has done it his whole career. Lucic had his first even comparable year to vanek last year on an amazing team. Vanek has put up better numbers in almost every season.

 

Vanek is not the Sabres' best player, IMHO. I would put Miller and Myers ahead of him. Similarly, I would put Chara and Thomas ahead of Lucic -- but I'm not sure I'd put any of their forwards ahead of Lucic. Certainly you can make a case for Seguin, but Bergeron? Krejci? Marchand? All are good players but is rather have Lucic.

[FolignosJock]

Really? Tell me what point per game players are available and how much they generally cost. Last summer the best scoring forward available was Brad Richards and he had offers from a dozen teams and ended up with a ridiculous contract for more per season than Vanek is making. The next best free agent forward? Ville Leino.

 

Are there a lot of teams looking to trade 27 year olds with two 40-goal seasons, four 30-goal seasons, and one year where they led the NHL in +/- under their belt? And what are they asking for in return? Vanek scored 25 goals in his *worst* season (as a rookie, BTW).

 

I'd love to hear how easy it would be to find another Vanek. (We've already covered this upthread, BTW, but it's worth repeating for people who think Lucic is amazing but Vanek is nothing.)

 

No need to reason with him. Lucic is a physical specimen who is thriving on the best team in hockey the last two years. I dont know how or when he got crowned as some decade making supestar??? crosby is a talent that is once every 20 years or so... Lucic is not. David Backes is the same style and I consider him better and he does it with a lot less talent around him AND he plays center. SO idk why Lucic was all of a sudden promoted to some hugely elite status but it is incorrect IMO

[Robviously]

Vanek is not the Sabres' best player, IMHO. I would put Miller and Myers ahead of him. Similarly, I would put Chara and Thomas ahead of Lucic -- but I'm not sure I'd put any of their forwards ahead of Lucic. Certainly you can make a case for Seguin, but Bergeron? Krejci? Marchand? All are good players but is rather have Lucic.

By what metric is Myers a better player than Vanek right now? I agree that he's our franchise player and should be the better player in a few years, but I don't see any way he's helping us win more games than Vanek right now (even if he's healthy). The guy is still figuring out how to play in the league.

[FolignosJock]

Vanek is not the Sabres' best player, IMHO. I would put Miller and Myers ahead of him. Similarly, I would put Chara and Thomas ahead of Lucic -- but I'm not sure I'd put any of their forwards ahead of Lucic. Certainly you can make a case for Seguin, but Bergeron? Krejci? Marchand? All are good players but is rather have Lucic.

 

 

I agree with that as well but the case could be made for them and I would take sequin over him. I also think vanek is our best player. Miller was and myers will be but right now vanek is our MVP and I dont think the same could ever be said about Lucic I also dont think it ever will be.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Really? Tell me what point per game players are available and how much they generally cost. Last summer the best scoring forward available was Brad Richards and he had offers from a dozen teams and ended up with a ridiculous contract for more per season than Vanek is making. The next best free agent forward? Ville Leino.

 

Are there a lot of teams looking to trade 27 year olds with two 40-goal seasons, four 30-goal seasons, and one year where they led the NHL in +/- under their belt? And what are they asking for in return? Vanek scored 25 goals in his *worst* season (as a rookie, BTW).

 

I'd love to hear how easy it would be to find another Vanek. (We've already covered this upthread, BTW, but it's worth repeating for people who think Lucic is amazing but Vanek is nothing.)

 

We have one now in Roy ... OK - I will admit that it probably wouldn't be easy, but doable.

 

I never said Vanek is nothing. All I said is that I would rather have Lucic and given the chance I would make that trade.

[FolignosJock]

We have one now in Roy ... OK - I will admit that it probably wouldn't be easy, but doable.

 

I never said Vanek is nothing. All I said is that I would rather have Lucic and given the chance I would make that trade.

 

vanek is about a PPG player as well and has done it before and is doing it now and pominville is doing it currently

[Sabres Fan in NS]

vanek is about a PPG player as well and has done it before and is doing it now and pominville is doing it currently

 

The other part directed to me was the cost factor ... Roy = $4 million ... Vanek = $7+ million ... $7+ million is alot of money made abvailable to try to replace Vanek with ... OK we will have to pay Lucic, so that would leave what? ... around $3 million.

 

Anyway, Lucic is the type of player we need ... IMHO.

[FolignosJock]

 

 

The other part directed to me was the cost factor ... Roy = $4 million ... Vanek = $7+ million ... $7+ million is alot of money made abvailable to try to replace Vanek with ... OK we will have to pay Lucic, so that would leave what? ... around $3 million.

 

Anyway, Lucic is the type of player we need ... IMHO.

 

Hahahaa do ur once in a generation player is going to make only 4 million a year? You make no sense and I cant stand your posts

[Robviously]

We have one now in Roy ... OK - I will admit that it probably wouldn't be easy, but doable.

 

I never said Vanek is nothing. All I said is that I would rather have Lucic and given the chance I would make that trade.

The bottom line is that bringing in a new player from outside the organization to do what Vanek does would be a nightmare. We signed Leino to a contract similar to Vanek's and it's a mess so far.

 

And Roy isn't close to Vanek. The team took off last year when he went down and we're still waiting to see what he can do now that Ruff is keeping he and Vanek apart.

[FolignosJock]

We have that type of player his name is kassian and he looks just as good if not better than lucic at this point in their careers

[Robviously]

The other part directed to me was the cost factor ... Roy = $4 million ... Vanek = $7+ million ... $7+ million is alot of money made abvailable to try to replace Vanek with ... OK we will have to pay Lucic, so that would leave what? ... around $3 million.

 

Anyway, Lucic is the type of player we need ... IMHO.

Yeah, awesome. If we ditched Vanek we'd have enough money freed up to pay Ville Leino and then have $1M/year left over. Great plan! :wallbash:

 

Freeing up money isn't the problem. Not that many star players hit the open market and they cost ridiculous money when they do. If you want a UFA, you're going to overpay for him. So dropping Vanek and then using that money to sign his replacement (for less???) is a pretty terrible idea. Again, look at what last year's crop of free agents got.

[...]

Of course, without Vanek you have created another hole which the team would be dying to fill right after that swap.

Wow. I agree we need qualities he would bring, but not at the expense of the one true star we have on our roster right now. Myers may be one someday. Miller may have been one 2 years ago. Vanek is one - and is in his absolute prime right now.

 

Trade him for a gritty 3rd line winger, even perhaps the best gritty 3rd line winger in the game? No way. Lucic is a complimentary piece. Vanek is guy you build your team around

 

 

Yeah, gentlemen, I'm here with you. I see no compelling reason to entertain the idea of trading Vanek, of all players. Vanek for Lucic? :lol: I don't see the logic here at all. What makes anyone think Lucic would be the same player for the Sabres that he is with Boston now? The Sabres could definitely use a Lucic-type of player up front, but not at the expense of Vanek. You put Vanek with competent, consistent, and talented line-mates and his production would soar from where it's at now.

 

You put Lucic on the current Sabres roster, and he's going to become frustrated like the rest of them, take stupid, anger-related penalties, and flirt with suspensions because of near-murders on the ice.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Hahahaa do ur once in a generation player is going to make only 4 million a year? You make no sense and I cant stand your posts

 

He's being paid $4 million per for 2 more years ... then he will get a raise ... or we win the cup and send him to Rochester or trade him to the next team that wants to win the cup.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

You put Lucic on the current Sabres roster, and he's going to become frustrated like with the rest of them and he wouldn't stand for it, take stupid, anger-related penalties, and flirt with suspensions because of near-murders on the ice.

 

Edited that part for you ...

 

I'd make Lucic captain too.

[spndnchz]

By what metric is Myers a better player than Vanek right now? I agree that he's our franchise player and should be the better player in a few years, but I don't see any way he's helping us win more games than Vanek right now (even if he's healthy). The guy is still figuring out how to play in the league.

 

Have to agree here. May I ask the board this question... who do you fear getting hurt and being out of the lineup the most?

 

Vanek

Myers

Roy

 

This IS a no brainer.

[nfreeman]

By what metric is Myers a better player than Vanek right now? I agree that he's our franchise player and should be the better player in a few years, but I don't see any way he's helping us win more games than Vanek right now (even if he's healthy). The guy is still figuring out how to play in the league.

I agree with that as well but the case could be made for them and I would take sequin over him. I also think vanek is our best player. Miller was and myers will be but right now vanek is our MVP and I dont think the same could ever be said about Lucic I also dont think it ever will be.

 

Well, saying that Vanek is better than Myers right now is certainly a reasonable position. I guess I just think that Vanek is a good player, and able to "put up numbers," but doesn't really help the team win as much as Myers does (although this is admittedly true only when Myers is playing well, which is not always the case).

 

vanek is about a PPG player as well and has done it before and is doing it now and pominville is doing it currently

 

Both Vanek and Pommer (and Roy for that matter) can "put up numbers." That's not the same as creating wins -- especially not in the playoffs. For an example, look no further than the Sabres last year with Roy (who was a PPG player through 35 games) and without him.

 

Hahahaa do ur once in a generation player is going to make only 4 million a year? You make no sense and I cant stand your posts

 

You need to be able to discuss this and other topics without resorting to this kind of BS.

 

We have that type of player his name is kassian and he looks just as good if not better than lucic at this point in their careers

 

Certainly the goal for Kassian is to become a Lucic-type player. He looks capable of it to me -- but it's far from a sure thing and will take quite a bit of time to get there in any event.

 

Yeah, awesome. If we ditched Vanek we'd have enough money freed up to pay Ville Leino and then have $1M/year left over. Great plan! :wallbash:

 

Freeing up money isn't the problem. Not that many star players hit the open market and they cost ridiculous money when they do. If you want a UFA, you're going to overpay for him. So dropping Vanek and then using that money to sign his replacement (for less???) is a pretty terrible idea. Again, look at what last year's crop of free agents got.

 

Well, I don't think anyone is advocating dumping Vanek for no return. But if you could turn Vanek and Pommer, at a combined $12.5MM, into, say, Lucic or Callahan, at $4MM, then you have $8.5MM to sign Brad Richards. So the question is: would you rather have Vanek and Pommer or Lucic and Richards?

 

NB that I fully recognize that the question is rhetorical, because those teams aren't going to part with Lucic or Callahan, and the trades wouldn't work for cap and a bunch of other reasons. The point is just that the Sabres might be well served by trading a big contract for a blood-and-guts guy who can score, even if his numbers are lower than the guy the Sabres would be trading, because it frees you up to do other things. Zach Parise is going to be a UFA this summer -- I would love to see the Sabres make a few bold moves and end up with him and a tough forward with some skill instead of 2 of the current "top 6".

[qwksndmonster]

Zach Parise is going to be a UFA this summer -- I would love to see the Sabres make a few bold moves and end up with him and a tough forward with some skill instead of 2 of the current "top 6".

We can only hope. Except for GoDD, he's gunning for Darcy's job.

[waldo]

Really? Tell me what point per game players are available and how much they generally cost. Last summer the best scoring forward available was Brad Richards and he had offers from a dozen teams and ended up with a ridiculous contract for more per season than Vanek is making. The next best free agent forward? Ville Leino.

 

Are there a lot of teams looking to trade 27 year olds with two 40-goal seasons, four 30-goal seasons, and one year where they led the NHL in +/- under their belt? And what are they asking for in return? Vanek scored 25 goals in his *worst* season (as a rookie, BTW). 'd love to hear how easy it would be to find another Vanek. (We've already covered this upthread, BTW, but it's worth repeating for people who think Lucic is amazing but Vanek is nothing.)

 

 

I agree with you but you are wasting your breath Red. I wonder what the fans would think Vanek would be worth in this market as a free agent? Then, if they gave him a center like Richards and a 25 goal big winger with hands to play with and he put up 50 + 90pts? Do you think there are any fans here insane enough to say he does not have that kind of an upside potential with the right center and winger? That was the potential the Sabres paid for at 7 mil then they let it languish during the next three years by not acquiring a true one center, a physical winger and deveoping a pp. Get him a center next year,a pp and let him put up his career numbers then watch him walk for 6.5-7+ in the next contract or then trade him for what he will be worth.

 

Now the context..What do you think Lucic's upside looks like. Watch him play against some shutdown lines before you decide.

[korab rules]

I agree with you but you are wasting your breath Red. What do you think Vanek would be worth in this market as a free agent if they gave him a center like Richards and a 25 goal big winger with hands to play with and he put up 50 + 90pts? Do you think there are any fans here insane enough to say he does not have that kind of an upside with the right center and winger? That was the potential they paid for at 7 mil then they let him languish during the next three years without a center, a physical winger and a pp. Get him a center next year,a pp and let him put up his career numbers then watch him walk for 6.5-7+ in the next contract or then trade him for what he will be worth.

 

Now the context..What do you think Lucic's upside looks like. Watch him play against some shutdown lines before you decide.

 

The bolded is an important point. When teams key on stopping Lucic from scoring, and he consistently scores 30+ goals, I will reconsider my position.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

The bolded is an important point. When teams key on stopping Lucic from scoring, and he consistently scores 30+ goals, I will reconsider my position.

 

I don't really want him for his scoring.

[beerme1]

Have to agree here. May I ask the board this question... who do you fear getting hurt and being out of the lineup the most?

 

Vanek

Myers

Roy

 

This IS a no brainer.

 

It is a no brainer isn't it! We've seen the team and how they perform when all three have been out individually. Let me say this without sounding like an a hole who says i'd like to see this guy get hurt etc..but I like the way we play when there is no Derek Roy in the lineup ;)

I just hope with his favorable contract that he is the first one shipped out of here and have for at tleat two full seasons. And frankly I dont care what you do with him on Saturday nights.

[waldo]

I don't really want him for his scoring.

 

Sabres do not need scoring?

[FolignosJock]

I don't really want him for his scoring.

 

 

so we give up 80 points a year for grit? That is the worst idea EVER.

 

Well, saying that Vanek is better than Myers right now is certainly a reasonable position. I guess I just think that Vanek is a good player, and able to "put up numbers," but doesn't really help the team win as much as Myers does (although this is admittedly true only when Myers is playing well, which is not always the case).

 

 

 

Both Vanek and Pommer (and Roy for that matter) can "put up numbers." That's not the same as creating wins -- especially not in the playoffs. For an example, look no further than the Sabres last year with Roy (who was a PPG player through 35 games) and without him.

 

 

 

You need to be able to discuss this and other topics without resorting to this kind of BS.

 

 

 

Certainly the goal for Kassian is to become a Lucic-type player. He looks capable of it to me -- but it's far from a sure thing and will take quite a bit of time to get there in any event.

 

 

 

Well, I don't think anyone is advocating dumping Vanek for no return. But if you could turn Vanek and Pommer, at a combined $12.5MM, into, say, Lucic or Callahan, at $4MM, then you have $8.5MM to sign Brad Richards. So the question is: would you rather have Vanek and Pommer or Lucic and Richards?

 

NB that I fully recognize that the question is rhetorical, because those teams aren't going to part with Lucic or Callahan, and the trades wouldn't work for cap and a bunch of other reasons. The point is just that the Sabres might be well served by trading a big contract for a blood-and-guts guy who can score, even if his numbers are lower than the guy the Sabres would be trading, because it frees you up to do other things. Zach Parise is going to be a UFA this summer -- I would love to see the Sabres make a few bold moves and end up with him and a tough forward with some skill instead of 2 of the current "top 6".

 

 

To the bolded sorry about getting frustrated with him but it is hard not to...

 

 

Kassian looks a lot like Lucic and plays a lot like him and just trying to compare lucic as a rookie to kassian now looks about dead on if not better. But lucic is def not a once every 25 year player there are guys in the league that do the same thing if not better and dont play on the best team in the NHL (arguably).

 

That is a nice sentiment about switching out for that with the money involved... for ONE year that it would be possible. There is NO way that you can have Lucic and Richards for 12.5 million. You can have it for the year and a half that Lucic has left on this contract but in reality we cant. Would I rather have Richards and Lucic obviously.. but I wouldnt take either of those guys singularly over Vanek....we need a center to go WITH vanek not instead of.

 

He's being paid $4 million per for 2 more years ... then he will get a raise ... or we win the cup and send him to Rochester or trade him to the next team that wants to win the cup.

 

WHAT?

 

 

so we rent him for a cup run, get rid of a 40 goal scorer, try to trade him? possibly lose him?, and then we dont have our 40 goal scorer locked up long term, we dont have the guy we traded for him and we possibly have what we got for him in a trade in which I am sure we wont get what he was worth because we will be handcuffed by free agency. That sounds like the worst decision a GM could ever make.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

When Thomas Vanek wins a cup, singlehandledly takes out a Vezina goalie only to watch that goalie have a nervous breakdown and send the entire organization into a week of one on one and closed door meetings, and causes an entire city to question the very fiber of their souls........then we'll talk about who is more valuable.

[FolignosJock]

When Thomas Vanek wins a cup, singlehandledly takes out a Vezina goalie only to watch that goalie have a nervous breakdown and send the entire organization into a week of one on one and closed door meetings, and causes an entire city to question the very fiber of their souls........then we'll talk about who is more valuable.

 

funny i guess