Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 ...hmmm hadn't thought of that... but judgement day will be when the sabres finally win the cup so maybe in some round about way it will be a good thing... :huh: Well ... that buys me considerable time to get my act together.
LGR4GM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Well ... that buys me considerable time to get my act together. you are on a role tonight lol. In all seriousness, I think if MAG was going to become Campbell 2.0 we would have seen flashes of it and we have not. Everyone points to the playoffs last year but honestly he was not that good. He was better than he has been this year but the key to moving forward is not living in the past.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 you are on a role tonight lol. In all seriousness, I think if MAG was going to become Campbell 2.0 we would have seen flashes of it and we have not. Everyone points to the playoffs last year but honestly he was not that good. He was better than he has been this year but the key to moving forward is not living in the past. I am out of +1's for today ... you are bang on with this one ... you can't be GM though ... I'm the agent for GoDD and we are in negotiations with Mr. Black for us (err ... him) to take over ... will you settle for AGM ... are you a capologist?
LGR4GM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 I am out of +1's for today ... you are bang on with this one ... you can't be GM though ... I'm the agent for GoDD and we are in negotiations with Mr. Black for us (err ... him) to take over ... will you settle for AGM ... are you a capologist? If AGM is Assistant General Manager than yes if it stands for anything else than no. Also I am unsure what a capologist is...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 If AGM is Assistant General Manager than yes if it stands for anything else than no. Also I am unsure what a capologist is... Yes ... Mr. AGM!! A specialist in manipulating the CBA to our advantage and circumventing the cap rules, without calling undo attention to this fact.
LGR4GM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Yes ... Mr. AGM!! A specialist in manipulating the CBA to our advantage and circumventing the cap rules, without calling undo attention to this fact. I figured out a way to manipulate the cap so we could trade roy, stafford and mag and get back stastny and dubinsky does that count?
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 I figured out a way to manipulate the cap so we could trade roy, stafford and mag and get back stastny and dubinsky does that count? Absolutely, I knew I could count on you ... I'm getting Mr. Black on the phone now.
LGR4GM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Absolutely, I knew I could count on you ... I'm getting Mr. Black on the phone now. lol, sounds good as soon as you get off the phone I will call the rangers and the avs and get things rolling so that they are here by tomorrow night.
samothyev Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Have seen games when Lindy puts one of our vaunted forwards at the point during a power play? I'll say it aint pretty and it opens us up to the Shorties we all love to bitch about. lol, sounds good as soon as you get off the phone I will call the rangers and the avs and get things rolling so that they are here by tomorrow night. You two are getting me excited... :huh: Multiquote didn't work like I thought it would...
X. Benedict Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 you are on a role tonight lol. In all seriousness, I think if MAG was going to become Campbell 2.0 we would have seen flashes of it and we have not. Everyone points to the playoffs last year but honestly he was not that good. He was better than he has been this year but the key to moving forward is not living in the past. The coin really didn't drop for Brian Campbell about his 6th pro year. I know it is beat down on Gragnani week, but Gragnani is looking much better than Campbell did around 2003 when he was about the same age.
Samson's Flow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 The coin really didn't drop for Brian Campbell about his 6th pro year. I know it is beat down on Gragnani week, but Gragnani is looking much better than Campbell did around 2003 when he was about the same age. Yeah but after seeing the glimpses of what our defense could be with more emphasis on physicality and *gasp* defense, I don't really want to go back to the post-lockout speed skating days of 2003. Let's move in a different direction instead of continuing to fail at recapturing the success of the post-lockout finesse team model.
LabattBlue Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 The coin really didn't drop for Brian Campbell about his 6th pro year. I know it is beat down on Gragnani week, but Gragnani is looking much better than Campbell did around 2003 when he was about the same age. Not that I ever resembled a fan of Campbell's, but even in his early days, he could skate like the wind, and carry the puck out of his own zone. As far as I can tell, Gragnani does not have that same skill set,
Samson's Flow Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Not that I ever resembled a fan of Campbell's, but even in his early days, he could skate like the wind, and carry the puck out of his own zone. As far as I can tell, Gragnani does not have that same skill set, But he can pass like the wind instead... :doh:
X. Benedict Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Not that I ever resembled a fan of Campbell's, but even in his early days, he could skate like the wind, and carry the puck out of his own zone. As far as I can tell, Gragnani does not have that same skill set, The skating is true....Soupy could always skate. Gragnani isn't a shut down D man, but positionally is very sound. (Soupy could get caught out a lot - the organization was extremely patient with him). Not checking numbers - but Gragnani probably plays 13-15 minutes 5x5 a night and 2 or 3 minutes on the PP. He's not being asked to provide lock-down minutes........ Here's how I see it: Last year entries into the offensive zone were a huge problem for the Sabres.....this year they are not, even though the team is still not strong at center....because Erhoff and Gragnani. Erhoff and Gragnani turn the puck over at about the same rate....but the pass they are making is usually a long one (usually over 20-25 ft) to catch the forwards with speed through the neutral zone. Most of the time it has been working. Entries have not been a problem. (for the most part) Gragnani on TV often looks jittery with the puck in his own zone, though he isn't. He's looking off the forechecker and waiting for a forward to get a few strides before he delivers the pass. Most of the time Gragnani delivers the puck right on his teammates tape. Except......when the 25 foot pass get picked. This looks terrible, but it really isn't as bad as it looks. The D is already back. Now if Gragnani was getting picked by the forechecker that would be one thing but this just doesn't happen much. The pass that is getting picked is 20-30 ft up ice. Sure it looks terrible. But with two D back it usually doesn't hurt you. MAGS is pretty much holding his own IMO. He's not going to unhinge anyone's jaw. But count passes as he works. He'll deliver 8 or 9 passes in a row right on the tape. He's very important right now for building team speed through the neutral zone. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's out there to win the offensive zone by feeding the forwards. He still probably has top 5 corsi rating in the league 5x5.....that's because forwards win the offensive zone when he's on the ice and get more shots. Just something to think about.
drnkirishone Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 I'm sorry X but the player your describing doesn't have the number 17 on his back when I am watching.
nfreeman Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 The skating is true....Soupy could always skate. Gragnani isn't a shut down D man, but positionally is very sound. (Soupy could get caught out a lot - the organization was extremely patient with him). Not checking numbers - but Gragnani probably plays 13-15 minutes 5x5 a night and 2 or 3 minutes on the PP. He's not being asked to provide lock-down minutes........ Here's how I see it: Last year entries into the offensive zone were a huge problem for the Sabres.....this year they are not, even though the team is still not strong at center....because Erhoff and Gragnani. Erhoff and Gragnani turn the puck over at about the same rate....but the pass they are making is usually a long one (usually over 20-25 ft) to catch the forwards with speed through the neutral zone. Most of the time it has been working. Entries have not been a problem. (for the most part) Gragnani on TV often looks jittery with the puck in his own zone, though he isn't. He's looking off the forechecker and waiting for a forward to get a few strides before he delivers the pass. Most of the time Gragnani delivers the puck right on his teammates tape. Except......when the 25 foot pass get picked. This looks terrible, but it really isn't as bad as it looks. The D is already back. Now if Gragnani was getting picked by the forechecker that would be one thing but this just doesn't happen much. The pass that is getting picked is 20-30 ft up ice. Sure it looks terrible. But with two D back it usually doesn't hurt you. MAGS is pretty much holding his own IMO. He's not going to unhinge anyone's jaw. But count passes as he works. He'll deliver 8 or 9 passes in a row right on the tape. He's very important right now for building team speed through the neutral zone. I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he's out there to win the offensive zone by feeding the forwards. He still probably has top 5 corsi rating in the league 5x5.....that's because forwards win the offensive zone when he's on the ice and get more shots. Just something to think about. Outstanding.
LGR4GM Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Here's how I see it: Last year entries into the offensive zone were a huge problem for the Sabres.....this year they are not, even though the team is still not strong at center....because Erhoff and Gragnani. Most of the time Gragnani delivers the puck right on his opponents tape. This year every team an their mom can get into our offensive zone with now problem. You meant opponents tape right? In all seriousness entries may be better but sustained zone time is just as lacking as ever and a major reason is that MAG coughs the puck up like an asthmatic smoker in a Mexican saloon. If he can't get it deep an be less of a "weakling" when it comes to physical pressure than his usefulness in the passing department is irrelevant. The thing that makes Weber better is that he is positionally sound, he skates fine, hes physical and he can chip the puck out and eat up minutes. MAG can pass. He does not appear to read the ice better than average and his skating is average as well. At some point this team has to stop waiting an paying for potential an start paying for talent. One of the reasons I have not bagged on leino is that he has the talent and he improves night in an night out. He is not showing "potential" hes showing progress and thats a difference IMO.
X. Benedict Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 This year every team an their mom can get into our offensive zone with now problem. You meant opponents tape right? In all seriousness entries may be better but sustained zone time is just as lacking as ever and a major reason is that MAG coughs the puck up like an asthmatic smoker in a Mexican saloon. If he can't get it deep an be less of a "weakling" when it comes to physical pressure than his usefulness in the passing department is irrelevant. The thing that makes Weber better is that he is positionally sound, he skates fine, hes physical and he can chip the puck out and eat up minutes. MAG can pass. He does not appear to read the ice better than average and his skating is average as well. At some point this team has to stop waiting an paying for potential an start paying for talent. One of the reasons I have not bagged on leino is that he has the talent and he improves night in an night out. He is not showing "potential" hes showing progress and thats a difference IMO. Weber or MAG is not really a question to me. Apples and Tangerines. Weber if he's lucky will potentially have the chance to have a career like Nolan Pratt. Honest D man, plays the body. Dependable option for stay at home guy. Finishes checks. There is room for him in the league as a 6 or 7th guy. I'm not going to try to sell anyone on MAG.....I'm just saying what I think he brings to the table. By the way....saying Weber is the better skater is quite a reach IMO.
fiftyone Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 This year every team an their mom can get into our offensive zone with now problem. You meant opponents tape right? In all seriousness entries may be better but sustained zone time is just as lacking as ever and a major reason is that MAG coughs the puck up like an asthmatic smoker in a Mexican saloon. If he can't get it deep an be less of a "weakling" when it comes to physical pressure than his usefulness in the passing department is irrelevant. The thing that makes Weber better is that he is positionally sound, he skates fine, hes physical and he can chip the puck out and eat up minutes. MAG can pass. He does not appear to read the ice better than average and his skating is average as well. At some point this team has to stop waiting an paying for potential an start paying for talent. One of the reasons I have not bagged on leino is that he has the talent and he improves night in an night out. He is not showing "potential" hes showing progress and thats a difference IMO. Reading the first part of this post and then coming to the bolded line made me chuckle. Talking up Mike Weber and then saying we need to start paying for talent. Mike Weber's game isn't overflowing with talent, he's probably one of the least talented players on this team.
RazielSabre Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 most people on this board wanted Grags in the top 6 and Sekera gone this offseason. How times change. For note I always thought his more valuable traded to a young bottom feeder (trade for Nick Folingo lol) than he was to us.
Ross Rhea Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Reading the first part of this post and then coming to the bolded line made me chuckle. Talking up Mike Weber and then saying we need to start paying for talent. Mike Weber's game isn't overflowing with talent, he's probably one of the least talented players on this team. I don't really agree with that. If you consider stickhandling talent, then yes he lacks compared to others. He has other talents, rugged, good decision making etc that are better than others. He's not the least talented IMO.
inkman Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 most people on this board wanted Grags in the top 6... Not me, not even close. You might get Nick Foligno if you include Stafford in that trade.
RazielSabre Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 Not me, not even close. You might get Nick Foligno if you include Stafford in that trade. Tempting almost. Yeh I realise not everyone did so it wasn't intended as a slight against all, just a funny observation. As I say offensively I like him but until he learns how to spell defense or we get good enough to cover his mistakes I'd sit him.
bleedblueandgold Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 17 D Marc-Andre Gragnani 27 1 8 9 11 6 Leading the team in +/- with a +11 ? have to agree with X's comments.....
RazielSabre Posted December 13, 2011 Report Posted December 13, 2011 17 D Marc-Andre Gragnani 27 1 8 9 11 6 Leading the team in +/- with a +11 ? have to agree with X's comments..... That +11 is a complete mystery after watching him play. Like Sekera's early on. Considering Regehr's +/- is nothing special yet his the most solid D presence on the ice.
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