inkman Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 My problem with Marc-Andre Gragnani isn't his lack of physical play, it's what happens when the other team pressures him. He may be the best passer on the team when there is no pressure, i.e. power play or a defensive zone break out with no forecheck. Anytime I have seen the opposition anywhere near him in the defensive zone he pukes all over himself and turns the puck over. How he has garnered the cushy plus/minus is beyond me.
inkman Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I just don't like him. His blank goat like stare makes Vanek face look sexually appealing.
nfreeman Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Giroux notwithstanding, Grags makes all kinds of good passes to the guys in blue. His positioning is usually pretty sound too. On the down side, I have never seen a less physical hockey player in my life. His entire defensive strategy is to get in a lane. He will NOT initiate contact. Ever. I'm perfectly fine with him on this team. What I'm not fine with his him, Sekera, Ehrhoff, Myers and Leopold on this team at the same time. Trade one of them, a top prospect and a good forward for a physical, playmaking centre. Please. Excellent post, although I would not include Ehrhoff and Myers in that list. He's definitely not my No. 1 target for removal. I just thing there's redundancy and that there are two or three better puck-moving defensemen on the team. Gotta have some balance. Regehr is terrific, but the team needs a puck-mover or two. I agree with this. My problem with Marc-Andre Gragnani isn't his lack of physical play, it's what happens when the other team pressures him. He may be the best passer on the team when there is no pressure, i.e. power play or a defensive zone break out with no forecheck. Anytime I have seen the opposition anywhere near him in the defensive zone he pukes all over himself and turns the puck over. How he has garnered the cushy plus/minus is beyond me. I don't think he turns it over under pressure -- or at least not more than his share. I do think though that he wins fewer puck battles than any other defenseman on the team. His blank goat like stare makes Vanek face look sexually appealing. Nice.
SarasotaSabre Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 My problem with Marc-Andre Gragnani isn't his lack of physical play, it's what happens when the other team pressures him. He may be the best passer on the team when there is no pressure, i.e. power play or a defensive zone break out with no forecheck. Anytime I have seen the opposition anywhere near him in the defensive zone he pukes all over himself and turns the puck over. How he has garnered the cushy plus/minus is beyond me. great post, I agree 100%.....
SarasotaSabre Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 His blank goat like stare makes Vanek face look sexually appealing. yes, you mean the one where he is staring off into space with his mouth wide open? I noticed this as well.....expressionless at all times
Meathead Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 adult as in bookstore or adult as in diapers?
deluca67 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Of all the problems with this roster i wouldn't consider Gragnani's play a huge issue at this point. Taking into consideration contract and offensive skill level the kid is a bit of bargain. At 24 years old I would like to see a bit more maturity in his defensive play. Aside from that, there are about a dozen more important things the I would prefer the Sabres to address before making any long term decision on Gragnani.
Meathead Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 btw it looked to me like he partially fanned on that pass. it came off his stick weak like it rolled off the heel just as he was passing it. if that had been a normal pass it wouldnt have been picked off and set up a nice point shot. oh well ###### happens heavy hitting isnt the only important thing i hockey. finley and mcnabb are awesome to have but theres no way you can compare them to the offense that sekera and grags bring. everyone would love every one of their defensemen to be hulking monsters with great puck skills but id also like the swedish bikini team to carry me around on a memory foam gurney and pleasure me on demand. most of the time you have to trade off physical presence (or presents) for offensive finesse, which is why you need a good coach to make those calls appropriately. you need to strike a balance, depending on the situation and opponent. if you just have a backline full of regehrs and mcnabbs you wont score enough to come out on top often enough. if all you have is sekeras grags and soupys youre gonna give up too much territory in front of the net. again, balance
drnkirishone Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I said it in another thread. I can excuse his absolute lack of physical play........ BUT if you are not gonna play physical on defense you have to have good positioning and/or great stick checking. He does neither. He gets lost in coverage, cant poke check the puck off a stick and most of the time on the breakout he is forcing it to the winger or Erhoff. Now maybe the breakout passes are because the coaches tell him to go there. But last year he was skating it up and making good plays on the break out. This year it is the same 2 plays 95% of the time. As for his plus/minus..... The only thing I can think is maybe the quality of opposition hasn't been great so they are not cashing in on the chances he gives teams.
spndnchz Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I said it in another thread. I can excuse his absolute lack of physical play........ BUT if you are not gonna play physical on defense you have to have good positioning and/or great stick checking. He does neither. He gets lost in coverage, cant poke check the puck off a stick and most of the time on the breakout he is forcing it to the winger or Erhoff. Now maybe the breakout passes are because the coaches tell him to go there. But last year he was skating it up and making good plays on the break out. This year it is the same 2 plays 95% of the time. As for his plus/minus..... The only thing I can think is maybe the quality of opposition hasn't been great so they are not cashing in on the chances he gives teams. See here for Quality of Opposition numbers: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=11&s=11&f1=2011_s&f2=5v5&f5=BUF&c=0+1+3+5+11+12+13+14+15+16# There are 6 other Buffalo d-men above him. As for +/- per 60 minutes he's at the top http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=25&s=25&f1=2011_p&f2=5v5&f5=BUF&c=0+1+3+5+21+22+23+24+25+26+27+28#
inkman Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 There are 6 other Buffalo d-men above him. There we have it. He's playing against by far the worst level o competition of any pf the regular D. The guys with the worst +/-, Weber and Regehr played against the best competition. I don't need to hear anything else.
NowDoYouBelieve Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 There we have it. He's playing against by far the worst level o competition of any pf the regular D. The guys with the worst +/-, Weber and Regehr played against the best competition. I don't need to hear anything else. Leopold is below him, along with McNabb and Finley in their limited time. Neither of those 2 have played enough games for analysis, but then again neither has Weber. And where do you get "by far the worst" from? -.04 isn't all that variant from the rest of the D.
Andrew Amerk Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 Ruff has some sort of unexplainable mancrush on Grags. I groan when I see him out there with his mouthbreathing, knowing he isn't going to hit anything, and make a perfect pass to the opponent at any moment.
JKB1646 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 does anyone have a serious thought as to why he is on the pp? Have seen games when Lindy puts one of our vaunted forwards at the point during a power play? I'll say it aint pretty and it opens us up to the Shorties we all love to bitch about.
LabattBlue Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 Is there a reliable site for in-depth stats that you use? I've been trying to find one for a long time that shows this type of stuff. Thanks in advance :) As for Grags, I think it's clear that I'm not championing him. But in regards to this thread, I do abjectly disagree that he "needs to go". I think he fills a niche. I use nhl.com, but you have to manually subtract out PPGA... http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122BUFSASALL&sort=teamGoalsAgainst&viewName=plusMinus I'm perfectly fine with him on this team. What I'm not fine with his him, Sekera, Ehrhoff, Myers and Leopold on this team at the same time. Trade one of them, a top prospect and a good forward for a physical, playmaking centre. Please. How would trading one of the puck moving defenseman for a physical playmaking center help with the mix on the blueline that you are concerned about? :blink:
carpandean Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 How would trading one of the puck moving defenseman for a physical playmaking center help with the mix on the blueline that you are concerned about? :blink: Come on Blue, this one seems pretty easy. Grags (or any one of the other puck movers) out opens a spot for Weber (on a regular basis) and/or McNabb. Mix is improved.
LabattBlue Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 Come on Blue, this one seems pretty easy. Grags (or any one of the other puck movers) out opens a spot for Weber (on a regular basis) and/or McNabb. Mix is improved. It shouldn't take a trade of one of the puck movers to realize the mix is not balanced. If all the blueliners get healthy, and Lindy goes right back to Weber being the odd man out, I won't be happy!
beerme1 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 It shouldn't take a trade of one of the puck movers to realize the mix is not balanced. If all the blueliners get healthy, and Lindy goes right back to Weber being the odd man out, I won't be happy! Prepare to be unhappy! Unfortunately.
Samson's Flow Posted December 11, 2011 Report Posted December 11, 2011 It shouldn't take a trade of one of the puck movers to realize the mix is not balanced. If all the blueliners get healthy, and Lindy goes right back to Weber being the odd man out, I won't be happy! I agree. With the way that McNabb has come in and stepped up, when all is healthy I would rather see more of Weber/McNabb over MAG. I'm sick of being told that he is a great passer and adds to our offense when the coaching staff only plays him against the weakest opposition and he has the most deadly giveaways...
RazielSabre Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 The dude's offensive ability is Campbell-esque. I'm not sure I have anywhere NEAR as much faith he'll ever be a good enough Dman to be dependable. I don't get to watch loads of games (4-5 a month) but almost every game I see him give up a massive turnover. When healthy enough Weber needs to be in and him sit until he can learn what colour jersey's are on his side.
LGR4GM Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 I spent a great deal of time watching and focusing on MAG during the Rangers game. My opinion of his skills actually declined. If he is the "best passer" on the team as Ruff has anointed him I can't see it. Maybe he is the best passer when you give him 10-15 seconds to sit their and line up his pass but in the heat of the moment you so much as breath on MAG and he melts. There is a very good reason why he has taken this long to get into the NHL and it is not because of injury or luck or any other excuse. It is because he is a 5-6 defender on a good night who can pass and skate well but is about as physical as 5 year old in a NFL game. Watch what happens when a guy is baring down on him, other defenders take the hit and make the pass. Mag panics and throws it away and turns away from the hit. He is scared and will continue to play that way because at this point thats engrained into his thought process. Disclaimer: I think Mike Weber is awesome... and he's Jesus... maybe :unsure:
bunomatic Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 Mags may be a great passer but like much of our ' offensively minded D ' those passes are getting us squat. 14 shots on net will not cut it in this league. Our goaltenders will have to stand on their heads every game to keep us in. Mags has been a defensive liability that his offence hasn't made up for. Again much like many of our other D men. Sit him when a body comes back. Anybody.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 I spent a great deal of time watching and focusing on MAG during the Rangers game. My opinion of his skills actually declined. If he is the "best passer" on the team as Ruff has anointed him I can't see it. Maybe he is the best passer when you give him 10-15 seconds to sit their and line up his pass but in the heat of the moment you so much as breath on MAG and he melts. There is a very good reason why he has taken this long to get into the NHL and it is not because of injury or luck or any other excuse. It is because he is a 5-6 defender on a good night who can pass and skate well but is about as physical as 5 year old in a NFL game. Watch what happens when a guy is baring down on him, other defenders take the hit and make the pass. Mag panics and throws it away and turns away from the hit. He is scared and will continue to play that way because at this point thats engrained into his thought process. Disclaimer: I think Mike Weber is awesome... and he's Jesus... maybe :unsure: As for your disclaimer ... I hope not because my faith tells me when he comes back it will only be on judgement day and I'm not quite ready for that yet.
LGR4GM Posted December 12, 2011 Report Posted December 12, 2011 As for your disclaimer ... I hope not because my faith tells me when he comes back it will only be on judgement day and I'm not quite ready for that yet. ...hmmm hadn't thought of that... but judgement day will be when the sabres finally win the cup so maybe in some round about way it will be a good thing... :huh:
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.