Lindysucks Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 After the giveaway against Philadelphia, that kind of did it for me. He turns the puck over so much. I know he's young, but I don't like his lack of physical presents, that includes Sekera. Ehrhoff, Regehr, Finley and McNabb have all shown they can be heavy hitters.
DumbPuck Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 After the giveaway against Philadelphia, that kind of did it for me. He turns the puck over so much. I know he's young, but I don't like his lack of physical presents, that includes Sekera. Ehrhoff, Regehr, Finley and McNabb have all shown they can be heavy hitters. What kind of physical "presents" do you want? A gummer in the bathroom stall?
inkman Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I really want to set the record straight with MAG's youthfulness. He'll be 25 in a few months and is playing in his 5th professional season. Hardly a spring chicken. McNabb has played in 1/10 the amount of professional games and is already a better NHL player.
K-9 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 What kind of physical "presents" do you want? A gummer in the bathroom stall? Perhaps we should act like the adults we are around here. GO SABRES!!!
LGR4GM Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 HEY! MAG is unique like a snowflake... if you blow on him he melts...
DumbPuck Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Perhaps we should act like the adults we are around here. GO SABRES!!! Maturity and humor are not mutually exclusive :-).
Lindysucks Posted December 10, 2011 Author Report Posted December 10, 2011 Physical presence is running people over like Regehr. I agree with inkman, McNabb has already shown he will be a good player for us. And yes, let's act like adults please.
K-9 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Maturity and humor are not mutually exclusive :-). I know. That's why I laughed my a$$ of when I read your post before I posted my mature response. GO SABRES!!!
... Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Is this the official "Hate on MAGs" thread? I've been on that train since preseason, I think. I was impressed during teh playhoffs, but I'm not that easy; the play has to be consistent. MAGs' consistency is all over the map, and his hockey IQ and vision quotient have trended downward. He was always soft. Looking forward to a trade with MAGs and Roy as part of a package.
Marine0369 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 im not going to be the adult. the guy sucks. hes a defenseman. hes supposed to block shots, tie people up and knock them off the puck in our end.i dont know what he weighs but if he cant hit because he is too light then he needs to grab a can of man. if anyone thinks a dmans job isnt to be physical then please tell me what it is. if you say hes a finess player you are on crack.
TheMatrix31 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Only got to watch the first period tonight and he was awful. Inexcusable.
Marine0369 Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 does anyone have a serious thought as to why he is on the pp?
Eleven Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 He's expendable with Ehrhoff and Sekera on the roster and NEVER should be paired with Ehrhoff in an even-strength situation. He's on the power play because he is one of the team's better passers, according to Paul Hamilton. According to me, he completely ###### up against Filly and needs to spend some time in the stands. Maybe when some of the walking wounded return.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 He's expendable with Ehrhoff and Sekera on the roster and NEVER should be paired with Ehrhoff in an even-strength situation. He's on the power play because he is one of the team's better passers, according to Paul Hamilton. According to me, he completely ###### up against Filly and needs to spend some time in the stands. Maybe when some of the walking wounded return. I like Paul and he is absolutely right about being one of the team's better passers ... unfortunately it seems that a majority of the time he is passing to the other team.
NowDoYouBelieve Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Gragnani has certainly had some frustrating moments, but I have a hard time understanding why he specifically is considered the #1 target for removal. Maybe you don't like his game, but the RESULTS (ie. even strength goals against his pairing) generally haven't been bad. Isn't that the most important thing?
SwampD Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Gragnani has certainly had some frustrating moments, but I have a hard time understanding why he specifically is considered the #1 target for removal. Maybe you don't like his game, but the RESULTS (ie. even strength goals against his pairing) generally haven't been bad. Isn't that the most important thing? Why bring rational thought into a completely irrational thread? When a Dman takes the body on a player entering the zone, it takes him out of the play. That's fine. But a team can only do that if they have big, physical centers to then fill in and take over the duties of that Dman. We don't have that. I don't really have a problem with Gragnani and he creates a lot more rushes up the ice than you realize. I think people key on him because it's a more open game when he's on the ice, so he's more exposed when he makes a mistake.
NowDoYouBelieve Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Why bring rational thought into a completely irrational thread? When a Dman takes the body on a player entering the zone, it takes him out of the play. That's fine. But a team can only do that if they have big, physical centers to then fill in and take over the duties of that Dman. We don't have that. I don't really have a problem with Gragnani and he creates a lot more rushes up the ice than you realize. I think people key on him because it's a more open game when he's on the ice, so he's more exposed when he makes a mistake. I think people like to simplify the game into "forwards score and defenders defend." It's human nature. And in that misbegotten context, where a blueliner's only job is to be gritty and take his man off the puck, Gragnani sucks. But we all know that hockey is a nuanced continuum where all 5 skaters are responsible for both jobs. That's one reason that I'm such a fan of Pominville - his backchecking is usually impeccable, but you also have a talented distributing winger with some scoring touch. Again, Grags' game doesn't involve overt physicality. Truth is that most teams have a defender like that. I'd hate to see the results of a team that has 6 clones of Gragnani as their D corps, but 6 Regehrs might be similarly disastrous.
LabattBlue Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Gragnani has certainly had some frustrating moments, but I have a hard time understanding why he specifically is considered the #1 target for removal. Maybe you don't like his game, but the RESULTS (ie. even strength goals against his pairing) generally haven't been bad. Isn't that the most important thing? I've looked at ES GA earlier in the season, but without knowing what lines you are going up against, it is tough to use these stats to prove much. Just watching the games, IMO, the Sabres best defender is Regehr, and after that you have Weber, followed by the grouping of Myers, Leopold, Sekera & Ehrhoff, and all by himself in the "by war the worst" category is MAG.
LabattBlue Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Why bring rational thought into a completely irrational thread? When a Dman takes the body on a player entering the zone, it takes him out of the play. That's fine. But a team can only do that if they have big, physical centers to then fill in and take over the duties of that Dman. We don't have that. I don't really have a problem with Gragnani and he creates a lot more rushes up the ice than you realize. I think people key on him because it's a more open game when he's on the ice, so he's more exposed when he makes a mistake. Are you trying to justify the reason why the Sabres blueliners aren't more physical is because the Sabres don't have big physical centers? Seriously?
LabattBlue Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I'd hate to see the results of a team that has 6 clones of Gragnani as their D corps, but 6 Regehrs might be similarly disastrous. I'll take a team of 6 Regher's against your team of 6 Gragnani's(we have the same forwards on both teams), and I am winning every game, whether we play once, 100 times or a 1000 times.
NowDoYouBelieve Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I've looked at ES GA earlier in the season, but without knowing what lines you are going up against, it is tough to use these stats to prove much. Just watching the games, IMO, the Sabres best defender is Regehr, and after that you have Weber, followed by the grouping of Myers, Leopold, Sekera & Ehrhoff, and all by himself in the "by war the worst" category is MAG. Is there a reliable site for in-depth stats that you use? I've been trying to find one for a long time that shows this type of stuff. Thanks in advance :) As for Grags, I think it's clear that I'm not championing him. But in regards to this thread, I do abjectly disagree that he "needs to go". I think he fills a niche.
Weave Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 I'll take a team of 6 Regher's against your team of 6 Gragnani's(we have the same forwards on both teams), and I am winning every game, whether we play once, 100 times or a 1000 times. But man, would that powerplay be abysmal.
rakish Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Plus minus stats Gragnani 11 Leopold 6 Sekera 3 McNabb -2 Ehrhoff -4 Myers -4 Weber -5 Regehr -6
dudacek Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Giroux notwithstanding, Grags makes all kinds of good passes to the guys in blue. His positioning is usually pretty sound too. On the down side, I have never seen a less physical hockey player in my life. His entire defensive strategy is to get in a lane. He will NOT initiate contact. Ever. I'm perfectly fine with him on this team. What I'm not fine with his him, Sekera, Ehrhoff, Myers and Leopold on this team at the same time. Trade one of them, a top prospect and a good forward for a physical, playmaking centre. Please.
Eleven Posted December 10, 2011 Report Posted December 10, 2011 Gragnani has certainly had some frustrating moments, but I have a hard time understanding why he specifically is considered the #1 target for removal. Maybe you don't like his game, but the RESULTS (ie. even strength goals against his pairing) generally haven't been bad. Isn't that the most important thing? He's definitely not my No. 1 target for removal. I just thing there's redundancy and that there are two or three better puck-moving defensemen on the team. I'll take a team of 6 Regher's against your team of 6 Gragnani's(we have the same forwards on both teams), and I am winning every game, whether we play once, 100 times or a 1000 times. Gotta have some balance. Regehr is terrific, but the team needs a puck-mover or two.
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