MAG and Ehrhoff

[Fifty Mission Cap]

So I know Grags is on everyone's sh*t list after last nights giveaway, BUT I'd like to hear level-headed feedback on the following observations I've made this season:

 

1. They are a very similar type of player, so pairing them seems somewhat redundant, and they are both left shots, so one of them is always playing on their off side.

 

2. Over the last month's games, I feel (haven't looked at stats) as though their puck protection has been terrible (despite Grag's team leading +10. Ehrhoff is -5).

 

3. Both players are more offensively minded than defensively, which has (again, just an observation) led to a barrage of odd-man rushes against.

 

My contention is that they would both benefit from a different pair. I also don't like them both out on the powerplay.

[korab rules]

So I know Grags is on everyone's sh*t list after last nights giveaway, BUT I'd like to hear level-headed feedback on the following observations I've made this season:

 

1. They are a very similar type of player, so pairing them seems somewhat redundant, and they are both left shots, so one of them is always playing on their off side.

 

2. Over the last month's games, I feel (haven't looked at stats) as though their puck protection has been terrible (despite Grag's team leading +10. Ehrhoff is -5).

 

3. Both players are more offensively minded than defensively, which has (again, just an observation) led to a barrage of odd-man rushes against.

 

My contention is that they would both benefit from a different pair. I also don't like them both out on the powerplay.

 

I agree with everything except the part about the being similar players. Grags is a pass first, shoot last #2 PP point man. He has the skill to and enjoys setting guys up by making smart passes (last night's game ending flub notwithstanding - he had to have flubbed on the pass - no way was he trying to send a cross ice pass that slow - and geroux never touches it if it is at normal velocity).

 

Ehrhoff is a shoot first pass second #1 PP point man. He has a cannon and is accurate with it. The problem is that the Sabres haven't had a guy at the point like him for so long that the forwards and coaches are scrambling to figure out how to best utilize him - early in the seasdon, they used him too much. In the middle portion they used him to little. They now seem to be settling in to some ind of balance,

 

In their own zone they are similar - too soft positional Dmen who struggle against big physical teams.

[Drunkard]

I agree. I've always preferred pairing offensive defensemen with a stay at home type. Unfortunately this roster is chock full of offensive dmen and all our guys shoot left handed save for Myers who is hurt.

 

I'd prefer to see pairings of:

 

Regehr Myers

Leopold Ehrhoff

Weber Sekera

Gragnani

 

When everyone is healthy of course. I also wouldn't mind packaging a dman or 2 (Sekera/Gragnani) with an underacheiving forward like Boyes or Stafford for picks and/or a decent 3rd line center and letting some of the young guys like Kassian and McNabb stay up with Buffalo.

[Derrico]

I agree with everything except the part about the being similar players. Grags is a pass first, shoot last #2 PP point man. He has the skill to and enjoys setting guys up by making smart passes (last night's game ending flub notwithstanding - he had to have flubbed on the pass - no way was he trying to send a cross ice pass that slow - and geroux never touches it if it is at normal velocity).

 

Ehrhoff is a shoot first pass second #1 PP point man. He has a cannon and is accurate with it. The problem is that the Sabres haven't had a guy at the point like him for so long that the forwards and coaches are scrambling to figure out how to best utilize him - early in the seasdon, they used him too much. In the middle portion they used him to little. They now seem to be settling in to some ind of balance,

 

In their own zone they are similar - too soft positional Dmen who struggle against big physical teams.

 

It may not be worth discussing or is being discussed in the GDT but there is no need to make that cross ice feed period. There have been way too many of those types of passes by our D. We cannot continue to turn over the puck :wallbash:

[LabattBlue]

He has a cannon and is accurate with it.

Accurate? Only if he is accurate in trying to either hit the opposing player with the shot, or if by chance he misses hitting them, he is very accurate at hitting the end boards. ;)

[Fifty Mission Cap]

 

In their own zone they are similar - too soft positional Dmen who struggle against big physical teams.

 

Yup! That's my major beef. We have too many of the same type of D-man, and when we get up by a few goals, and Lindy changes strategy, teams can come back easily by bullying their way up ice and outshooting us by 10s each period thereafter. I don't think we're but a few players away from consistency. I also agree that some of the Rochester boys have played very well so far. Better enthusiasm, at the very least. Let's hope things tighten up for us in Jan/Feb/Mar.

[carpandean]

They make more sense as a PP pairing than an ES one. Grags can setup Ehrhoff's cannon when they have time and space, and don't really have to play any D. At ES, the pair seems a little too one-dimensional, which scares me when the puck is in our zone. I generally like the idea of your D being a mix of offensive-minded and defensive-minded, giving you O/D pairs for ES, at least one D/D pair for PK, and at least one O/O pair for the PP.

[korab rules]

They make more sense as a PP pairing than an ES one. Grags can setup Ehrhoff's cannon when they have time and space, and don't really have to play any D. At ES, the pair seems a little too one-dimensional, which scares me when the puck is in our zone. I generally like the idea of you D being a mix of offensive-minded and defensive-minded, giving you O/D pairs for ES, at least one D/D pair for PK, and at least one O/O pair for the PP.

 

Yup.

Yup! That's my major beef. We have too many of the same type of D-man, and when we get up by a few goals, and Lindy changes strategy, teams can come back easily by bullying their way up ice and outshooting us by 10s each period thereafter. I don't think we're but a few players away from consistency. I also agree that some of the Rochester boys have played very well so far. Better enthusiasm, at the very least. Let's hope things tighten up for us in Jan/Feb/Mar.

Don't you think the forwards have some responsibility for this as well? Lindy doesn't usually go into a shell until late in the game.

Accurate? Only if he is accurate in trying to either hit the opposing player with the shot, or if by chance he misses hitting them, he is very accurate at hitting the end boards. ;)

That's what I meant by forcing him. Early in the season he was being force fed the puck and shooting whether the shot was there or not. Then they went back to a PP predicated on the forwards, and now they are finding some balance. I wouldn't call him a Zhitinik, but anyone who swings the stick as hard as he does is going to spray them once in a while. There are days Tiger Woods can't keep it in the fairway, and he doesn't try to hit the ball while it is thrown at him from 90 degrees away at 60 MPH.

It may not be worth discussing or is being discussed in the GDT but there is no need to make that cross ice feed period. There have been way too many of those types of passes by our D. We cannot continue to turn over the puck :wallbash:

No need to make the cross ice feed? It's 4 on 4 - Philly was boxed up, if you want to get the puck on net, you need to make people move to establish shooting lanes. There was nothing wrong with the pass, it was the velocity that caused the problem. Grags must have flubbed on the pass.

[apuszczalowski]

Bet you they would be better if Enroth was in net...............

[Taro T]

They make more sense as a PP pairing than an ES one. Grags can setup Ehrhoff's cannon when they have time and space, and don't really have to play any D. At ES, the pair seems a little too one-dimensional, which scares me when the puck is in our zone. I generally like the idea of you D being a mix of offensive-minded and defensive-minded, giving you O/D pairs for ES, at least one D/D pair for PK, and at least one O/O pair for the PP.

They do, but with Myers, Leopold, and Weber all broken at present it makes sense to play them together. I don't trust either particularily more by having him paired with McNabb or Finley. I wouldn't break up Sekera and Regehr just to keep those 2 apart from each other. (Not that Sekera and Regehr is my 1st choice pairing, but with what they've got to work with; I'll take it.)

 

It seemed that the pairings were getting mixed up quite a bit with the one consistency being trying to keep Regehr on the ice when the Jagr - Giroux line was on the ice. Ehrhoff, far and away had the most ice time, so he did play a lot without Gragnani. (About every 4th shift of his, he was out with somebody else.) Gragnani was pretty much out only with Ehrhoff.

 

McNabb was definitely in over his head when he was out on the ice with Jagr and they had to pick and choose their spots with Finley. It made sense as such to see them mixing stuff up. McNabb was on the ice for 3 goals against - 2 paired with Ehrhoff and 1 paired with Sekera. Finley was hidden well enough that no goals were scored when he was on the ice.

[Tyrannustyrannus]

Gragnani gives away the puck, and Erhoff chases the guy on a breakaway while Grangnani goes to the bench to preserve his +/- stats. That is the only logical explanation for him being +10.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Gragnani gives away the puck, and Erhoff chases the guy on a breakaway while Grangnani goes to the bench to preserve his +/- stats. That is the only logical explanation for him being +10.

 

He didn't even try to get to the bench on the OT winner last night ...

[Derrico]

Bet you they would be better if Enroth was in net...............

 

And there goes the granade......

[X. Benedict]

So I know Grags is on everyone's sh*t list after last nights giveaway, BUT I'd like to hear level-headed feedback on the following observations I've made this season:

 

1. They are a very similar type of player, so pairing them seems somewhat redundant, and they are both left shots, so one of them is always playing on their off side.

 

2. Over the last month's games, I feel (haven't looked at stats) as though their puck protection has been terrible (despite Grag's team leading +10. Ehrhoff is -5).

 

3. Both players are more offensively minded than defensively, which has (again, just an observation) led to a barrage of odd-man rushes against.

 

My contention is that they would both benefit from a different pair. I also don't like them both out on the powerplay.

 

The pairing are so thin right now that you have to pick your poison...Ruff was matching, and had no checking line.

(Goose-Gerbe-Kaleta all out)

 

Regher on Jagr - body on body

Sekera on Giroux....skater on skater

 

Erhoff and Mags were clearly the counter-attack pairing to try to get pucks to net.

 

Here's the shift chart if anybody is interested.

 

http://www.timeonice.com/default.html?GameNumber=20403&submit=Go

[thesportsbuff]

The pairing are so thin right now that you have to pick your poison...Ruff was matching, and had no checking line.

(Goose-Gerbe-Kaleta all out)

 

Regher on Jagr - body on body

Sekera on Giroux....skater on skater

 

Erhoff and Mags were clearly the counter-attack pairing to try to get pucks to net.

 

Here's the shift chart if anybody is interested.

 

http://www.timeonice...20403&submit=Go

 

Awesome link, thanks for that... I've never seen this before. Looks like that myth about Kassian being "benched" doesn't really hold up against this chart... Versus guys are such idiots. Kassian goes to the bench after an extended shift and the guy says "Boy, we haven't seen Kassian out here for a while!" And his partner blindly agrees.

[drnkirishone]

MAG has been on my ######-list for weeks now. He is playing to soft and to timid for a one dimensional player. If your gonna suck at playing physical on D then you gotta play a smart positional game and/or be good with your stick. He is doing neither. Can't body check, can't stick check, gets lost on defensive assignments, makes inaccurate passes on the point, and can't lead a breakout.

 

Everytime the camera shows him during a stoppage of play he just looks confused to me. At this point I think I would take anyone on the roster playing in his spot instead of him