Game Discussion Thread Philadelphia at Buffalo (12/7/2011, 7:30pm)

[deluca67]

Ouch, Lindy said that Philly's "a good speed team." So, in addition to being more talented and more physical (our rookies help that a little), they're fast, too? What's our advantage again?

Coaching and goaltending obviously.

:doh:

[waldo]

Trust me, if I thought Miller blew that because he's Miller, I would say so. I don't really have much to say about either Miller or Enroth at the moment. I doubt any goalie in the league would look more "on" than the Sabres' tandem when they have the team in front them that they do.

 

Giroux was more "on" than Miller. Giroux has been more "on" than most of the goalies, or forwards, in the league this season. Eventually, like, say, Ovechkin, he will be "off", but not tonight.

 

This is not Miller's star season. That doesn't mean he blows, or needs to be traded, it just means that this season it looks like it's Giroux's season to become a star, and we saw why.

 

As noted above, I have moved away from being able to sincerely criticize the goalies of this organization. I can't because every single night they're being let down by the team in front of them. For all we know, Miller and Enroth, on a more competent team, would be battling each other for a Vezina.

 

A fan that actually understands that goaltenders are only as good as their d permits them to be... oh my

[Weave]

A fan that actually understands that goaltenders are only as good as their d permits them to be... oh my

 

You do realize that this thinking plays right into the hands of the "why do we need an expensive/elite goaltender" crowd, right?

[Kristian]

Wow. Sabres are full of terrible giveaways, odd man rushes and blocked shots. I've never seen a team hit so many shin pads game in and game out as I have with this team this season. Very discouraging so far.

 

Got a point tonight but definitely should have taken 2!

 

Side note: Danny Briere was invisible tonight. think he got 10mins ice time. What's up with him?

 

He wants to come back to Buffalo?

[SwampD]

While a lot of you are nailing Miller and MAGS for the game-winning goal, I'm blaming another guy - Ehrhoff. Sure the pass was ill advised...sure Miller "should" have stopped it (maybe)...but what was Ehrhoff doing along the near boards when MAGS had the puck along the far boards? Any Pee Wee defenseman knows that you move to the middle when your partner is along the boards. Had he been in position, he could have taken the pass or have stopped Giroux from having a breakaway.

 

Ehrhoff was TERRIBLE! And unfortunately, not for the first time this year. I think his failure to live up to his potential along with Leino's has contributed to the Sabres' less than stellar performance so far this season. It's not the only reason, but it's a big one.

I said that exact same thing when it happened.

 

 

Some random thoughts-

 

-I understand why people are frustrated with MAG, but I don't understand why people have a problem with Sekera.

 

-In this New/Old NHL, I'd rather have Ellis on the ice than Ennis.

 

-So, Gerbe gets crushed into the boards, two guys fight, and we don't end up with a powerplay,.. :blink:

 

-I usually never say this, but those were two awful goals Miller let in.

 

Disappointing loss.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I said that exact same thing when it happened.

 

 

Some random thoughts-

 

-I understand why people are frustrated with MAG, but I don't understand why people have a problem with Sekera.

 

-In this New/Old NHL, I'd rather have Ellis on the ice than Ennis.

 

-So, Gerbe gets crushed into the boards, two guys fight, and we don't end up with a powerplay,.. :blink:

 

-I usually never say this, but those were two awful goals Miller let in.

 

Disappointing loss.

 

Can someone please explain why Ellis got the instigator? I have no recollection of seeing that called in similar circumstances in the past. I am a little dumbfounded right now.

 

I thought Sekera played a decent game, and I am currently disgusted with MAG. our defense for the most part played pretty terrible last night. Between being out of position, the turnovers/giveaways, and just poor decisions, they looked like a bunch of rookies!

 

Kassian, Tropp, and Adam all played really well, and I would like to see Kass stay up. He looks to be ready to stay up with the big kids, so when we get healthy, Darcy, please trade some players that are dead weight...ey?

[Marvelo]

The obvious failures are easy to talk about because it seems like we're getting death by a thousand cuts. There is a silver lining though and I hope we can build on our successes and clamp down on what's ailing us. Much maligned Ville Leino is starting to get hot...3 pts in two games. Zack Kassian...he should stay up here. McNabb and Finley look like tough customers. And players are sticking up for each other, finally...you think that would be ingrained but it takes hard experience sometimes. So until the team can get its act together and gel, I'm going to try to focus on what's going right.

[SwampD]

Can someone please explain why Ellis got the instigator? I have no recollection of seeing that called in similar circumstances in the past. I am a little dumbfounded right now.

 

I thought Sekera played a decent game, and I am currently disgusted with MAG. our defense for the most part played pretty terrible last night. Between being out of position, the turnovers/giveaways, and just poor decisions, they looked like a bunch of rookies!

 

Kassian, Tropp, and Adam all played really well, and I would like to see Kass stay up. He looks to be ready to stay up with the big kids, so when we get healthy, Darcy, please trade some players that are dead weight...ey?

One more thing about this play. If Kaleta had made that hit he would have been thrown out of the game and suspended. I wonder if there will be any further punishment. Actually I don't wonder,..there won't be.

[CallawaySabres]

I said that exact same thing when it happened.

 

 

Some random thoughts-

 

-I understand why people are frustrated with MAG, but I don't understand why people have a problem with Sekera.

 

-In this New/Old NHL, I'd rather have Ellis on the ice than Ennis.

 

-So, Gerbe gets crushed into the boards, two guys fight, and we don't end up with a powerplay,.. :blink:

 

-I usually never say this, but those were two awful goals Miller let in.

 

Disappointing loss.

 

This is what infuriates me about this league - a total and absolute joke of a league. Next time, just swing the stick at his neck because you are not getting a powerplay out of it anyway.

[dEnnis the Menace]

One more thing about this play. If Kaleta had made that hit he would have been thrown out of the game and suspended. I wonder if there will be any further punishment. Actually I don't wonder,..there won't be.

 

oh, I absolutely agree. I loved how VS made a huge deal about the small elbow from Leino to (??), but made less of a deal about the blow to Gerbe. Absolutely ridiculous. "these are the types of hits the league is looking to get rid of" is what they said about Leino's little elbow, but what about the intentional boarding plays?! Absolutely ridiculous.

[biodork]

Between that debacle of a game and the Hump Day party, somebody should check on Chz.

[nfreeman]

Elite goaltenders tend to thrive on stopping Lead scorers in the NHL when they're on a breakaway and the games on the line :o

 

To close to home on that one?

It's all good, sometimes the truth hurts, let it out, let it all out :nana:

 

You did see Miller stop Jagr on the other breakaway, yes?

 

Dude, we're talking about Claude Giroux, who Versus is ready to replace Crosby with. I doubt even the most elite of goalies stand a chance on a clean break-away like that at the tail end of a hard game.

 

Well, that's an exaggeration. Even the best players over time have a sub-50% conversion percentage in the shootout.

 

I'm raising where one of my eyebrows would be if I had eyebrows at you.

 

Interesting, and it brings to mind the episode of the Sopranos in which AJ's buddies shaved off his eyebrows.

 

Lets look at the massive failure on the forecheck and the inability of the players on this team to finish when they do get their chances in the offensive zone, which aren't many.

 

When you spend a majority of the game playing defense or just plain chasing the puck around because the opponent has better puck control skills, the outcome in most cases should be a foregone conclusion.

 

This team needs some changes. Some players on this roster need to go, some of the youth needs to stay and those players that are brought in should be positional specific in an effort to stabilize the situation. Thats my opinion on this team.

 

Now this I agree with.

 

Heart breaker again. The scariest part for me is that even when the Sabres went up by 3 goals in the first, I had no confidence that they would be able to close it out. That makes me worried.

 

I thought the Sabres gave a great effort in this game, the problem was too many mental mistakes against a very tough opponent. When the Flyers pounced on the Gerbe flub our guys were not able to step up with them. Missing passes and not being able to get to pucks or clear the zone effectively when the tempo got cranked up. I think the game showed that the Sabres more than anything lack composure and confidence.

 

That said, I always try to look for positives so here are the things that I particularly liked:

• Kassian shows fantastic potential
  
• Leino keeps getting better and looked (for the most part) solid on a line with Adam and Kassian.
  
• The Sabres have stepped it up physically, mostly thanks to call ups from the Amerks
  
• When the Sabres needed someone to step up and tie the game Stafford came through big. His last few shifts before his goal were great, hopefully it will be a wakeup call for him. Or at the very least the start of a streak of a few good games at least.
  

Plenty of things to complain about, but I'll leave that to others. In short I have seen much worse games by Buffalo this year, but it is frustrating that they keep getting undone by the same types of mistakes game after game.

 

Welcome and good post. Keep 'em coming.

 

I don't think Philly is an overall tougher team than Buffalo anymore. Sure they've got Hartnell and Old Man Pronger, but at this point they are a different team than they were over the last few years. Much more tenacious in their puck play than tough IMO.

 

I know we are fielding alot fo rookies but this team was already starting to have more poor outtings than good before the injury train started if I remember correctly. And right now they are losing to bottom feeders as well as top teams. There was alot fo talk in September about waiting 20-25 games to see what we have. I don't like what I see. I'm not willing to dismiss the situation to injuries because there are a number fo guys who are playing with the linemates and D partners they would still be playing with if everyone is healthy and are still not providing value. I'm not buying the "still need to gel" line for them. Stafford and Erhoff come to mind immediately but certainly there are others.

 

Hightened expectations have alot to do with it of course, but this is a most frustrating season so far. And I don't see the answer on the injury list.

Absolutely agree on the bolded part. To me it's the continued failure of the "top 6" to be effective, Vanek's softie and Stafford's great goal last night notwithstanding. If we're lucky Stafford will start to heat up now.

[Doohicksie]

Also... you gotta win with the team you've got.

[LGR4GM]

I said that exact same thing when it happened.

 

 

Some random thoughts-

 

-I understand why people are frustrated with MAG, but I don't understand why people have a problem with Sekera.

 

Did you not notice on the go ahead goal where Sekera backed up and then backed up some more and then finally McNabb came across to put a body on Jagr but it was too late cuz he had already shot?

[SwampD]

Did you not notice on the go ahead goal where Sekera backed up and then backed up some more and then finally McNabb came across to put a body on Jagr but it was too late cuz he had already shot?

So, you're going to define Sekera's entire game on one play,.. on a shot that Miller should have stopped?

 

If that's the case, then sure, cut him. He sucks.

[Tyrannustyrannus]

this game just reinforced how sick I am of Ruff, Roy, Sekera, Stafford, Gragnanai, and Leino. This team isn't going anywhere.

[dEnnis the Menace]

this game just reinforced how sick I am of Ruff, Roy, Sekera, Stafford, Gragnanai, and Leino. This team isn't going anywhere.

 

I believe it's "Ain't goin nowhere!" (you have to say it slightly teary eyed too...) :ph34r:

[waldo]

Take the +'s away and what happened in the game defensively becomes clear. Not a surprise to me given the fact they were playing against a team like Philly.As poorly as they played defensively, one or two fewer critical mistakes would have turned the game.

 

Adam -2 Kassian -3 Tropp -2 Leino -3 Sekera -2 Roy -2 McNabb -3 Ennis -1 Gerbe -1 Ehrhoff -2 Regehr -1 Ellis -1

[HopefulFuture]

You can't expect a goalie to stand on his head for 82 games. At what point do the 5 other guys in front have to be "on?"

 

PTR

 

Where does it state that a goalie even plays 82 games? And where have you seen a goalie do so?

 

Next time, don't post merely to post, add some substance to it please.

[waldo]

You do realize that this thinking plays right into the hands of the "why do we need an expensive/elite goaltender" crowd, right?

Is Miller in a slump... Yes... Has he given up soft goals, Yes, all goaltenders do. Tim Thomas let a couple in over the past few weeks. Is the quality of the d in front of the goaltender in Boston much better, Yes. Would Thomas's numbers drop dramatically if he played behind this Sabres Defense, Yes. Would Millers numbers be better right now playing behind the Boston D, Yes.

 

We have a top ten goaltender who is not on his game yet. I think he got his bell rung again last night...He plays behind a number of offensive defensemen and rookies who throw him to the wolves more often than not. The aformentioned thoughts were my point.

 

On a side note Hoff needs to decide if he is going to block the shot or get out of the way to let Miller see it. More goals are scored on his screens and deflections than any defenseman i have watched in a while. Some guys just have the nack.

 

A good d makes an elite goalies slumps less visible. A bad d magnifies them.

[dEnnis the Menace]

so I thought Ellis only 5 for fighting, and 2 for instigating, but just read on DBTB that he received a 10 minute misconduct! Looked at the PIM stat, sure enough, 17 mins of penalties...

 

So now the NHL doesn't allow the players to police the game anymore too? IMO, the message that right there sends, is that a player can board another player, with the HIGH possibility for injury, only get a two minute minor, and when another player steps in to "police" and stick up for his teammate, he gets 17 minutes worth of penalties. garbage imho.

[Weave]

Is Miller in a slump... Yes... Has he given up soft goals, Yes, all goaltenders do. Tim Thomas let a couple in over the past few weeks. Is the quality of the d in front of the goaltender in Boston much better, Yes. Would Thomas's numbers drop dramatically if he played behind this Sabres Defense, Yes. Would Millers numbers be better right now playing behind the Boston D, Yes.

 

We have a top ten goaltender who is not on his game yet. I think he got his bell rung again last night...He plays behind a number of offensive defensemen and rookies who throw him to the wolves more often than not. The aformentioned thoughts were my point.

 

On a side note Hoff needs to decide if he is going to block the shot or get out of the way to let Miller see it. More goals are scored on his screens and deflections than any defenseman i have watched in a while. Some guys just have the nack.

 

A good d makes an elite goalies slumps less visible. A bad d magnifies them.

 

I'm playing deveil's advocate here.

[Who Else?]

Is Miller in a slump... Yes... Has he given up soft goals, Yes, all goaltenders do. Tim Thomas let a couple in over the past few weeks. Is the quality of the d in front of the goaltender in Boston much better, Yes. Would Thomas's numbers drop dramatically if he played behind this Sabres Defense, Yes. Would Millers numbers be better right now playing behind the Boston D, Yes.

 

We have a top ten goaltender who is not on his game yet. I think he got his bell rung again last night...He plays behind a number of offensive defensemen and rookies who throw him to the wolves more often than not. The aformentioned thoughts were my point.

 

On a side note Hoff needs to decide if he is going to block the shot or get out of the way to let Miller see it. More goals are scored on his screens and deflections than any defenseman i have watched in a while. Some guys just have the nack.

 

A good d makes an elite goalies slumps less visible. A bad d magnifies them.

 

The Problem I see with Miller is he is too concerned in his teams plays. I know this sounds stupid, but he can't seem to detatch him self from his teams bad plays like other goalies do. When there is some sort of a mistake in front of him, is when he lets up the bad goals that may ordinarily be routine.

[HopefulFuture]

Now this I agree with.

 

I know, I know, I ride the Miller comments a bit too much, but hey, don't take my fun away, it's very amusing reading the responses ;)

 

As for the quoted above, yes, that is what I actually see on the ice as a product. Been a problem since D/B left actually, atleast in my opinion.

I don't mind Lindy as coach, but the team just hasn't addressed the issues with puck control and the transition game has actually gotten worse over the past 2 seasons. It was already on the fritz with Loods and Tally back there, but now, all opponents do is pressure the sabres D in there own zone and it usually leads to a cough up.

 

Sad actually how this team has degressed over the past 4 seasons.

[waldo]

The Problem I see with Miller is he is too concerned in his teams plays. I know this sounds stupid, but he can't seem to detatch him self from his teams bad plays like other goalies do. When there is some sort of a mistake in front of him, is when he lets up the bad goals that may ordinarily be routine.

 

In the nhl, when your d is giving up more than ten clean looks from the lower slot a game, missing their defensive zone assignments,screening you on shots you should see, consistently failing to pick up the trailer and sending odd man rushes your way every five minutes, some goaltenders tend to act out.Others internalize it. It becomes really hard to take when they are slumping. Its like , Hey guys i steal games we should not win when i am hot,i pick you up, you need to pick me up when i am not. . When they are in the zone and unbeatable it is not an isuue. He is looking for help to work his way through this spell and his team is throwing gas on the fire. It started last year.