Taro T Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 The Sabres have never in their existence been called "the hardest hitting team in hockey." I'd like them for once to stock the team with a bunch of bruisers (like Finley) and enforcers, so other teams have to keep their heads up all the time. For once, I'd like the character of this team to be shifted away from the finesse and into the badass, and I think that could only come with a new coach. My choice, Randy Carlyle. That 1st team that Nolan had billed itself as 'the hardest working team in hockey' and there weren't many teams that wanted to play against it. Sure they liked getting the W's, but they had to get more than a few bruises to earn that W. While that was an entertaining team to watch, had they not started winning the next year, that would have gotten old quickly too.
FolignosJock Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 Didn't he sprout up significantly (ie. medically) after he was drafted? I seem to remember seeing stories of how he grew quite a bit out of juniors. If this is true I look dumb, but i still mean that the type of player that peters became was a huge asset to a team 10 years ago or maybe more
FolignosJock Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 That 1st team that Nolan had billed itself as 'the hardest working team in hockey' and there weren't many teams that wanted to play against it. Sure they liked getting the W's, but they had to get more than a few bruises to earn that W. While that was an entertaining team to watch, had they not started winning the next year, that would have gotten old quickly too. Win and no one cares about what you are deficient in
Kevbeau Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 He was drafted to Play in a clutch and grab league where there was no speed through the neutral zone. Still....a 2nd? :D (34th overall actually) Despite intent and strategy, it still gets the gasface.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 While that was an entertaining team to watch, had they not started winning the next year, that would have gotten old quickly too. And i'm sure banging Gwenn Stefani will get old somewhere around 2047.
X. Benedict Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 Still....a 2nd? :D (34th overall actually) Despite intent and strategy, it still gets the gasface. If you get an NHL player from the second round you are doing pretty well. I wouldn't call him a bust.
MattPie Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 And i'm sure banging Gwenn Stefani will get old somewhere around 2047. None of us really knows what goes on 'in the room'. Some people may be leaders, and some might be sullen and quiet. We can't draw inferences based on what we see in the media.
darksabre Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 And i'm sure banging Gwenn Stefani will get old somewhere around 2047. :wub:
CallawaySabres Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 I think that it has both, trade evaluation and grit. The Sabres know they are soft and Lindy is trying to get grit on the team. By bringing Kassian and now Finley only tells me they are looking at options as well. I just hope the Sabres keep McNabb and Kassian only to bring toughness to a soft team. I like Guastad (sp?) and Keleta but think McCormick is too soft to be an enforcer. Both Guast, and Kelata are not enforcers either while Kassian will be instantly. I think McNabb will be a very hard hitter and will need help with an enforcer like Kassian and if Finley comes in, he too will be an enforcer as well. This will give the Sabres toughness and grit. If they trade them away the Sabres will become soft again and laughed at by teams like the ruins. I think McCormick has been my favorite guy this year when it comes to toughness. He hits, fights (does not embarrass himself) and has played some pretty good hockey so far. I am looking forward to him taking the ice again....
X. Benedict Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 i was too obtuse - i was more making a crack at how far back the league has slid in terms of mucking things up and slowing things down. Modified obstruction is what happens now. :beer:
Taro T Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 And i'm sure banging Gwenn Stefani will get old somewhere around 2047. If the team under Nolan had continued to lose far more than they won, Teddy probably would have been sent packing when he was anyhow. It's just Muckler probably would have stayed on and his buddy Torts would have been the new coach. The question becomes how much time would Mucks and Torts had to right the ship? Interesting what might have been.
deluca67 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Posted December 1, 2011 If the team under Nolan had continued to lose far more than they won, Teddy probably would have been sent packing when he was anyhow. It's just Muckler probably would have stayed on and his buddy Torts would have been the new coach. The question becomes how much time would Mucks and Torts had to right the ship? Interesting what might have been. "Continue?"
Taro T Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 "Continue?" Yes, had they gone 33-42-7 again in '96-'97 rather than 40-30-12, Teddy would have been gone and Torts would have been in. And that 33-42-7 included going 5-2 over their last 7. They'd been on pace to end up w/ less than 70 points on the year until the very end.
tom webster Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 "Continue?" Yes, continue. While some think of the Nolan era as some sort of Camelot, they rode a hot start to win a very weak division and then barely beat a young, upstart Senator team with Ron Tugnut in goal. They then were exposed by a Flyer team that openly mocked them as they tried to intimidate them. The next year, using some actual coaching, Lindy Ruff showed how to really beat the Flyers.
Taro T Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Yes, continue. While some think of the Nolan era as some sort of Camelot, they rode a hot start to win a very weak division and then barely beat a young, upstart Senator team with Ron Tugnut in goal. They then were exposed by a Flyer tean that openly mocked them as they tried to intimidate them. The next year, using some actual coaching, Lindy Ruff showed to really beat the Flyers. Nolan was arguably the worst X's & O's coach the Sabres have ever had. He also was a great motivator of young players and had that team willing to skate through a brick wall for him. Too bad he lost Hasek and hated Miro; he might have lasted 2 more years before the wheels fell off. Motivational speeches only work for so long.
tom webster Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Nolan was arguably the worst X's & O's coach the Sabres have ever had. He also was a great motivator of young players and had that team willing to skate through a brick wall for him. Too bad he lost Hasek and hated Miro; he might have lasted 2 more years before the wheels fell off. Motivational speeches only work for so long. The ironic thing about Nolan was that as good as he was with young players, the start of the unraveling of his relationship with Muckler was Muckler's refusal to bring in veteran players to augment his roster.
Taro T Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 The ironic thing about Nolan was that as good as he was with young players, the start of the unraveling of his relationship with Muckler was Muckler's refusal to bring in veteran players to augment his roster. Which was most directly manifested in Nolan playing Ronan and benching Satan.
deluca67 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Which was most directly manifested in Nolan playing Ronan and benching Satan. Not to break up this dutch rudder, but lets face some realistic facts here. Ted Nolan's style of play gave a team fans could be proud of. A team that reflects this city and it's hockey fans. Were they a dominate team? No. They went from 33-42-7 to a division winner. At that time it was pretty huge. It was a team known for toughness. De-value it you want.
tom webster Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Not to break up this dutch rudder, but lets face some realistic facts here. Ted Nolan's style of play gave a team fans could be proud of. A team that reflects this city and it's hockey fans. Were they a dominate team? No. They went from 33-42-7 to a division winner. At that time it was pretty huge. It was a team known for toughness. De-value it you want. I'm not de-valuing it at all. In fact I got a kiss and a hug from the most beautiful girl I had ever seen when Plante scored that goal(section 226, row 6, seats 7 through 11 if she's out there). I loved that team in that moment. But the results that that team achieved and the most upside it was built for is exactly the mediocrity you decry now. Ruff took essentially the same team playing a different style farther then Nolan ever could have.
Taro T Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Not to break up this dutch rudder, but lets face some realistic facts here. Ted Nolan's style of play gave a team fans could be proud of. A team that reflects this city and it's hockey fans. Were they a dominate team? No. They went from 33-42-7 to a division winner. At that time it was pretty huge. It was a team known for toughness. De-value it you want. Aren't you Mr. Stanley Cup or bust? Nolan took that team as far as he could take it. If he could have taken that team further than it went, he'd've gotten another crack in the NHL after his stint w/ the Isles. It was a fun team to watch that last year in the Aud. The brawl at puckdrop against the Habs was legendary. The winning in the Mmarena was unexpected and great; but realistically it wasn't going to go any further. The guy doesn't know X's & O's, unfortunately for him and the Sabres. And his poisoning the relationship with Hasek sealed that it wouldn't go further.
deluca67 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 I'm not de-valuing it at all. In fact I got a kiss and a hug from the most beautiful girl I had ever seen when Plante scored that goal(section 226, row 6, seats 7 through 11 if she's out there). I loved that team in that moment. But the results that that team achieved and the most upside it was built for is exactly the mediocrity you decry now. Ruff took essentially the same team playing a different style farther then Nolan ever could have. That is a big assumption. I would say that Nolan got more out of his roster of players than Ruff has ever gotten out of his.
deluca67 Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Aren't you Mr. Stanley Cup or bust? Nolan took that team as far as he could take it. If he could have taken that team further than it went, he'd've gotten another crack in the NHL after his stint w/ the Isles. It was a fun team to watch that last year in the Aud. The brawl at puckdrop against the Habs was legendary. The winning in the Mmarena was unexpected and great; but realistically it wasn't going to go any further. The guy doesn't know X's & O's, unfortunately for him and the Sabres. And his poisoning the relationship with Hasek sealed that it wouldn't go further. I know hiring Ruff and Regier hasn't led to a Stanley Cup. What keeping Nolan would have led to is just conjecture.
tom webster Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 That is a big assumption. I would say that Nolan got more out of his roster of players than Ruff has ever gotten out of his. Obviously its an assumption, and I don't want to beat this to death. And in the interest of fairness I had a personal dislike for Nolan (he didn't sleep with that girl I kissed), but my assumption is based on the results of the two Philly series, on Nolan's record before and after he left and whatever little knowledge I think I picked up over the years. But in the end you are right, just my opinion, nothing else.
tom webster Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 I know hiring Ruff and Regier hasn't led to a Stanley Cup. What keeping Nolan would have led to is just conjecture. One last point, my guess is Nolan knew which is why he didn't sign the one year deal.
X. Benedict Posted December 2, 2011 Report Posted December 2, 2011 Nolan was arguably the worst X's & O's coach the Sabres have ever had. He also was a great motivator of young players and had that team willing to skate through a brick wall for him. I think that about sums it up.
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