thesportsbuff Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Adding muscle doesn't make you want to play more physical. It is all upstairs, and either you want to do it, or you don't. Gerbe is the smallest player in the league, but plays more physical than Myers ever will. He also has probably 30 pounds of muscle on Myers. Myers is a twig. He's got a big body, but he's a twig. Every hit he throws out is going to hurt him almost as much as it hurts the other guy.
Weave Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 You never know, though. There's plenty of time for him to gain some of that nasty. I'm probably leaning more towards your expectations as well, but just keep in mind that he's still a kid. He's still looking up (not literally of course..) to 90% of the league-- I think at this age and point in his career, he's just happy to be where he's at. As the years go by, he will take more hits, he will grow more frustrated, he will get more people in his face... eventually he very well could develop that mean streak. Eventually, maybe, he will get pissed off and play like it. I didn't follow his junior career very closely but I'm assuming given his size and such, he probably didn't have to play that physical for most of his junior career because his size alone was enough to win battles. He could just need some time to a.) put on the pounds to actually BE that kind of physical force, and b.) just figure everything out as far as technique and positioning on hits. 200 games seems like a long enough time to figure himself out, but there's a difference between playing 200 games as a 18-19-20-21 year old kid and playing 200 games as a 24-25 year old with AHL seasoning and several years of pro-level fitness training. McNabb, Kassian, Tropp, and Gerbe all show you what a rookie player with a propensity for physical play does when they come into a new, higher league. They demonstrate to the new league that they are here, and this is what you can expect. Myers has 2 full seasons and 2 playoff rounds under his belt now. He may be young, but he's a veteran now. And he's older than some of the guys I listed above. He's only very, very occassionally showing physicality. It isn't in him to be consistant about it or he'd be doing it. It isn;t a crime, but it is what it is. Like Robie said last night when describing McNabb, you either have the personality do be a physically dominating player or you don't. It isn't something that develops.
Patty16 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Adding muscle doesn't make you want to play more physical. It is all upstairs, and either you want to do it, or you don't. Gerbe is the smallest player in the league, but plays more physical than Myers ever will. It allows you to play more physical. He is an underdeveloped 21 year old kid, he needs some time. You cant play a gangbusters physical game every night when you dont have the beef. Chara needed many years before he reached his full potential.....he needed to add weight.
DumbPuck Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 McNabb, Kassian, Tropp, and Gerbe all show you what a rookie player with a propensity for physical play does when they come into a new, higher league. They demonstrate to the new league that they are here, and this is what you can expect. Myers has 2 full seasons and 2 playoff rounds under his belt now. He may be young, but he's a veteran now. And he's older than some of the guys I listed above. He's only very, very occassionally showing physicality. It isn't in him to be consistant about it or he'd be doing it. It isn;t a crime, but it is what it is. Like Robie said last night when describing McNabb, you either have the personality do be a physically dominating player or you don't. It isn't something that develops. This. When we have these discussions I sometimes wonder how many on this board have actually been involved in a competitive sport. Some people have an ability to be mean .. others do not. Some sports make this trait easier to see than others. It's like a switch that turns on from time to time. I wrestled in middle school, high school, and a brief period in college before realizing that my education had to come first. I was never a very good wrestler, but man could I get angry. That hasn't gone away. I am a very calm person until something happens that crosses a line ... then I become a very different person. I will not pretend to know what leads to this trait, but I do know that a lot of people do not have it (for better or for worse). Myers does not have this trait; Gerbe does. This trait is also one of the reasons I love watching Gerbe play ... you never know when that switch will flip to "ON" :-).
thesportsbuff Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 McNabb, Kassian, Tropp, and Gerbe all show you what a rookie player with a propensity for physical play does when they come into a new, higher league. They demonstrate to the new league that they are here, and this is what you can expect. Myers has 2 full seasons and 2 playoff rounds under his belt now. He may be young, but he's a veteran now. And he's older than some of the guys I listed above. He's only very, very occassionally showing physicality. It isn't in him to be consistant about it or he'd be doing it. It isn;t a crime, but it is what it is. Like Robie said last night when describing McNabb, you either have the personality do be a physically dominating player or you don't. It isn't something that develops. But with the exception of Gerbe, who was more of a skill player in college, all of those guys have played gritty/physical style games their whole junior/college careers. They clearly have developed the muscle to be able to play that way. Kassian and McNabb look huge. Gerbe is often described as a bowling ball. Again, just hypothesizing, but I'm guessing not too many 16-17 year olds in junior hockey were trying to throw hits at Myers -- he has never had to be that physical or had a need to put on an extra 30 pounds of muscle. The other guys have. Myers has always had the advantage of being much taller, his size alone would intimidate me as a 17 year old. Additionally, a guy like Myers maybe spent more time working on his skating and footwork while the other guys were working on muscle mass? (That one might be a reach but you get the point.) You may be right about not having the personality for it (or you may be wrong-- I would say that people can develop personality), but I'm just not ready to say that the Myers we see this year is the Myers we're going to see his whole career. When he's 25 and weighs in at 240-250 lbs with 6 years of dealing with Sean Avery's and Chris Neil's under his belt, he could be a very different player than he is now.
thesportsbuff Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 This. When we have these discussions I sometimes wonder how many on this board have actually been involved in a competitive sport. Some people have an ability to be mean .. others do not. Some sports make this trait easier to see than others. It's like a switch that turns on from time to time. I wrestled in middle school, high school, and a brief period in college before realizing that my education had to come first. I was never a very good wrestler, but man could I get angry. That hasn't gone away. I am a very calm person until something happens that crosses a line ... then I become a very different person. I will not pretend to know what leads to this trait, but I do know that a lot of people do not have it (for better or for worse). Myers does not have this trait; Gerbe does. This trait is also one of the reasons I love watching Gerbe play ... you never know when that switch will flip to "ON" :-). I disagree. Everyone has their breaking point. Gerbe shows it more often -- he is also pushed around and "taken advantage" of more often. He has a shorter fuse, that's all.
korab rules Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 McNabb, Kassian, Tropp, and Gerbe all show you what a rookie player with a propensity for physical play does when they come into a new, higher league. They demonstrate to the new league that they are here, and this is what you can expect. Myers has 2 full seasons and 2 playoff rounds under his belt now. He may be young, but he's a veteran now. And he's older than some of the guys I listed above. He's only very, very occassionally showing physicality. It isn't in him to be consistant about it or he'd be doing it. It isn;t a crime, but it is what it is. Like Robie said last night when describing McNabb, you either have the personality do be a physically dominating player or you don't. It isn't something that develops. In general, I agree with this, and think it is accurate for 99% of players, BUT, when specifically referring to Myers, I do see the potential for him to develop more of an edge. Right now, he is a 6'8" beanpole. As he matures, fills out and adds muscle he will be much larger and heavier than most of the players he will face. He could become a dominating force with little additional effort, it would just be a matter of using his significant size advantage. Between players of equal size, the aggression and want to is either there or it isn't - it takes greater will and a mean streak to physically dominate someone who is your equal in size. That same will wouldn't be necessary for Myers to add four or five good hits a game - and that would be all it takes for him to develop that reputation as a big and feared hitter.
Taro T Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 In general, I agree with this, and think it is accurate for 99% of players, BUT, when specifically referring to Myers, I do see the potential for him to develop more of an edge. Right now, he is a 6'8" beanpole. As he matures, fills out and adds muscle he will be much larger and heavier than most of the players he will face. He could become a dominating force with little additional effort, it would just be a matter of using his significant size advantage. Between players of equal size, the aggression and want to is either there or it isn't - it takes greater will and a mean streak to physically dominate someone who is your equal in size. That same will wouldn't be necessary for Myers to add four or five good hits a game - and that would be all it takes for him to develop that reputation as a big and feared hitter. Myers has definitely played with more of an edge this year than in the past and I do expect to see a little bit more of an edge in the future for the reasons you described. But due to his size, that little bit more will look like a lot more, and from there when he DOES decide to step it up (and if last year's Filly series wasn't an aberation, he WILL step it up in the playoffs/crunch time) he will be dominating. I don't expect him end up as strong as Chara, but simply going from boy to man he will be stronger, and I expect him to be far closer to Chara than Mike Wilson in the physicality department. Though he's definitely not in the mold of either yet, he's a lot closer to Chara than Wilson physically; and Chara at 21 was still 3-4 years away from the coordination that Myers came into the league with.
Samson's Flow Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 This. When we have these discussions I sometimes wonder how many on this board have actually been involved in a competitive sport. Some people have an ability to be mean .. others do not. Some sports make this trait easier to see than others. It's like a switch that turns on from time to time. I wrestled in middle school, high school, and a brief period in college before realizing that my education had to come first. I was never a very good wrestler, but man could I get angry. That hasn't gone away. I am a very calm person until something happens that crosses a line ... then I become a very different person. I will not pretend to know what leads to this trait, but I do know that a lot of people do not have it (for better or for worse). Myers does not have this trait; Gerbe does. This trait is also one of the reasons I love watching Gerbe play ... you never know when that switch will flip to "ON" :-). This :thumbsup: watching the game last night, it was easy to see when someone takes a shot at Gerbe or a teammate, he goes into ballistic mode (see: Playoffs, Stanley Cup) and finishes every check and ups his intensity. I have never seen that from Myers and I don't think he possesses that 'switch' to initiate the physical game. The most obvious instance was the Lucic hit, and if that didn't push Myers over the edge, he never will IMO.
DumbPuck Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Myers has definitely played with more of an edge this year than in the past and I do expect to see a little bit more of an edge in the future for the reasons you described. But due to his size, that little bit more will look like a lot more, and from there when he DOES decide to step it up (and if last year's Filly series wasn't an aberation, he WILL step it up in the playoffs/crunch time) he will be dominating. ... huh? With the exception of 1 or 2 games right before the injury in which he looked a bit "edgier", I think he has looked like a confused giant chasing a little mouse (puck) around while little people skate around him and outwork him. Some little people even knock the giant over from time to time and make said giant look silly.
Weave Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 In general, I agree with this, and think it is accurate for 99% of players, BUT, when specifically referring to Myers, I do see the potential for him to develop more of an edge. Right now, he is a 6'8" beanpole. As he matures, fills out and adds muscle he will be much larger and heavier than most of the players he will face. He could become a dominating force with little additional effort, it would just be a matter of using his significant size advantage. Between players of equal size, the aggression and want to is either there or it isn't - it takes greater will and a mean streak to physically dominate someone who is your equal in size. That same will wouldn't be necessary for Myers to add four or five good hits a game - and that would be all it takes for him to develop that reputation as a big and feared hitter. That makes sense if we were talking about Myers upping the ante against the big players in the league. But Myers has the size, strength, and weight to dominate the average sized players in the league right now. And he rarely shows it. When he does show it (ie. Philly series) it is obvious just how dominant he could/should be. Like I said, I don't think it is in his personality though.
MattPie Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 huh? With the exception of 1 or 2 games right before the injury in which he looked a bit "edgier", I think he has looked like a confused giant chasing a little mouse (puck) around while little people skate around him and outwork him. Some little people even knock the giant over from time to time and make said giant look silly. Kinda like that Kaleta hit on Chara? :)
Taro T Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 huh? With the exception of 1 or 2 games right before the injury in which he looked a bit "edgier", I think he has looked like a confused giant chasing a little mouse (puck) around while little people skate around him and outwork him. Some little people even knock the giant over from time to time and make said giant look silly. I didn't say he hasn't had issues this year - he got benched for looking like a confused giant at times. I said he's brought more of an edge this year than in years past (last year's playoffs excluded). He's thrown a couple of hits in several games this year and he's gotten involved in post whistle scrums this year which he's pretty much not really done in the past. A lot of Chara's reputation as being edgy was built on putting a forearm into a guys' heads or a crosschecks to their backs after the whistle goes. Cheap shots on guys like Paciorety cemented the reputation. But Chara couldn't skate well enough to do much damage to people during the play when he was Myers' age; that didn't stop him from getting the rep as one mean SOB. And NO, I do not expect Myers to play as phyically (nor develop the same sort of reputation for it) as Chara does. I do expect him to be a player that other guys don't really want to go up against if he keeps developing that edge. I don't expect him ever to get the sort of reputation or respect for his physical play that Regehr gets, but Regehr leading a rush up the ice has never struck fear in the heart of an opposing defenseman either. With Myers offensive skills and size, a 'bit of an edge' will be plenty for him to be a truly special D-man.
apuszczalowski Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 I'd love to see Finley on the fourth line as a forward. We definately could use his size. They should move Myers and Finley to Forward, and Gerbe to C and play them as a 3rd or 4th line
RazielSabre Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 They should move Myers and Finley to Forward, and Gerbe to C and play them as a 3rd or 4th line Regehr would make a great checking line center...
Kevbeau Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Myers has the size, strength, and weight to dominate the average sized players in the league right now. I don't live in Buffalo anymore, but to the people who do and see Myers around town...Unless he's filled out since the last time I saw him, is he not possibly the skinniest human being you've ever seen? I agree with you weave, that it isn't in his personality. I'm sure he'll fill out a bit and he's shown in some games he can have a bit of an edge, but just because he's a half foot taller than most the other players, let's not assume he should be dominating them physically right now.
Samson's Flow Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 I don't live in Buffalo anymore, but to the people who do and see Myers around town...Unless he's filled out since the last time I saw him, is he not possibly the skinniest human being you've ever seen? I agree with you weave, that it isn't in his personality. I'm sure he'll fill out a bit and he's shown in some games he can have a bit of an edge, but just because he's a half foot taller than most the other players, let's not assume he should be dominating them physically right now. Brian Moorman is the skinniest professional athlete i've seen. Maybe its just that every other NFL player is jacked, but he is tiny out there
LabattBlue Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 With Myers offensive skills and size, a 'bit of an edge' will be plenty for him to be a truly special D-man. I am waiting to see some huge improvement in his play. Is it a lot to ask that over a 3 year period that a player selected in the top 15 would not be getting better? Instead, he is barely any more physical than we has as an 18 year old, is still clueless at times in his own end, seems to be more prone to giving the puck away more this season, and most importantly and most puzzling, his offensive game, whether it be rushing the puck, or chalking up points, has gone in the tank. Special d-man? Far far far far far far away.
Samson's Flow Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 I am waiting to see some huge improvement in his play. Is it a lot to ask that over a 3 year period that a player selected in he top 15 would not be getting better? Instead, he is barely any more physical than we has as an 18 year old, is still clueless at times in his own end, seems to be more prone to giving the puck away more this season, and most importantly and most puzzling, his offensive game, whether it be rushing the puck, or chalking up points, has gone in the tank. Special d-man? Far far far far far far away. Myers development does appear to have become stagnant or even regress since he came into the league as an 18 yro.
inkman Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Does anyone remember Chara's first 5 years in the League? The guy was a revolving pilon made of marshmallow.
ROC_exEMT Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 This :thumbsup: watching the game last night, it was easy to see when someone takes a shot at Gerbe or a teammate, he goes into ballistic mode (see: Playoffs, Stanley Cup) and finishes every check and ups his intensity. I have never seen that from Myers and I don't think he possesses that 'switch' to initiate the physical game. The most obvious instance was the Lucic hit, and if that didn't push Myers over the edge, he never will IMO. While I tend to agree an individual either has this "switch" or doesn't I do think a person's attitude or propensity for the rough stuff can be learned/developed to a degree over a period of time. Given his size I think Gerbe has been challenged his entire life and probably was picked on by other kids in school, the neighborhood, on the ice, etc. and he's developed an edge from that. I don't picture many kids picking on Myers and you don't see the cheap shots being taken on him even at the NHL level. So I think it's harder for Myers to get that anger built up in him to the point where he'll blow. But, over a period of time I'm guessing his fuse will shorten. Gerbe just got a head start...
spndnchz Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Does anyone remember Chara's first 5 years in the League? The guy was a revolving pilon made of marshmallow. Not to mention he didn't get over 20 points until he was at least 26 yrs old. Too many people forget Chara is now 34. 21 was a long time ago. IMO, once Tyler's metabolism slows down a bit he'll be able to keep some pounds on himself. He ate everything in site the summer of 2010, even made his own protein bars from peanut butter. It didn't work for him. He couldn't adjust himself to being that much heavier and that's why his game suffered the start of last season. He's been growing taller and taller, I think he's grown another inch the past two years. When he finally stops growing up he'll grow out. He'll adjust his game for his size (weight) more gradually. Luckily we have him signed until 2019.
inkman Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 He ate everything in site the summer of 2010... Lucky you! ;-)
spndnchz Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 Lucky you! ;-) I can neither confirm or deny...
inkman Posted November 30, 2011 Report Posted November 30, 2011 I can neither confirm or deny... Although with his height it could get a little cumbersome, maybe a little reverse chicken fight positioning was in order?
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