Roy

[waldo]

Every playmaker in the league gives the puck away (just wait until Ennis gets back). Also, Roy keeps just as many possessions alive in the O zone when others lose the puck as he gives away.

 

As far as keeping the puck in on the PP, we have said the exact same thing about every single Sabre back there, except MAG (of all people). We use to kill Pominville for this. Roy doesn't lose it any more than any other sabre, the only difference is that our goalies haven't been stopping the puck from going into the net on these rushes lately.

 

I just don't get why it's always about Roy and what he isn't doing. Why are we always talking about what he should be put on? He's a proven finisher. Why don't we ever talk about who should be put on his line to help him out.

 

Complaining about the Sabres top point getter the past few years just seams silly.

 

some good thoughts swampd...imo.. The only reason he has those glowing numbers is because he played with guys who gave him those numbers in so many ways...That is not true of the two wingers on the one line, give them Goose as a center and they will continue to put up numbers. I thought i was talking about the need to build a line around him..and i am sorry but he belongs on the two pp unit. they need his skill set more than the one.. Keep roy where he was and they will eventually click.. two scoring lines.. a requirement

[SwampD]

some good thoughts swampd...imo.. The only reason he has those glowing numbers is because he played with guys who gave him those numbers in so many ways...That is not true of the two wingers, give them Goose as a center and they will continue to put up numbers. I thought i was talking about the need to build a line around him..and i am sorry but he belongs on the two pp unit. they need his skill set more than the one.. Keep roy where he was and they will eventually click.. two scoring lines.. a requirement

It seem like most of everyone's complaints come from the constant micro-managing of the line combinations, wait,.. no,.. I'm not going to go there,.. this thread is about Roy.

[carpandean]

imo.. The only reason he has those glowing numbers is because he played with guys who gave him those numbers in so many ways...

Really? The only reason? In the post-CD/DB era, when playing as the #1 center, he has average 0.915 PPG over nearly 300 GP. It takes more than a good line mate (as noted before, this is the first season that Vanek and Pommer have played together with any regularity) to sustain those kind of number. Vanek and Pommer have found chemistry this year, so I'll agree that they can make centers look good, but they haven't done that for Roy in the past. There have been plenty of games where Roy has produced on lines without Vanek, or when Vanek has been off his game (far more frequent occurrence in previous seasons.) He has literally taken over games offensively previously. Yes, having a good line mate helps, but the guy does have a lot of talent, too. It's one thing to not like his style or his apparent selfishness (man, I hate when he passes by Vanek to do his signature celebration), but to say that the only reason that he's put up points is his line mates is a huge overstatement.

[R_Dudley]

I'll try to steer this in a productive direction: I think the OP might be on to something when he says he doesn't like Roy playing with Vanek and Pommer. A lot of other stuff he said sounded very contrived and opinionated, so I'll leave that stuff alone.

 

I like VAP better than I like VRP because I've never liked the way Roy and Vanek play together. I think that Vanek has shown that he is one of the most dangerous scoring threats on our team, and he did it without Roy on the most part. Roy is a good offensive center with plenty of skill, but he definitely has more of a shoot first mentality. I think the guys you want to put around Vanek are Adam and Pommer because Adam is a good physical presence, and Pommer is a great passer and a good shooter (always buries tip ins).

 

The other reason I like VAP better is because having Roy on the second line really spreads out our skill. Roy was producing incredibly well without Vanek and Pommer, and I don't think it helps Adam's development to be switching line mates often. I'm perfectly fine with giving VRP a couple more games together as a chance make me eat my words (and to play like they did in the 3rd period of the Habs game consistently), but I feel like VAP is a better line in the long run.

 

Good post and the bolded points I defintely agree with. I am not saying to trade him unless of course they could get someting better in return but that is true for me for all but save a handful of players on this team that I would keep in a complete rebuild mode.

 

I think against a small NOT physical team like Montreal the VRP line can and did look good. But I do not think it works as well against most of the other teams that can and do put a physical shut down line out against the top line.

 

Watching the games it appears to me that Roy does not create as much space in offensive zone as Adam. If he doesn't have enough room to out manuveur the other player he often loses the puck and he defitely can't work/crash the boards like Adam. That shifts more of that resposnibility to Pommers and Vanek too have play the boards harder/closer with less chances for open cruises/looks in front of the goal. Example of Lindy recognizing this for me is the PP when he puts Roy at the point(which is another discussion) and Boyes at center. Boyes is much harder on the puck along the boards allowing more options for Vanek and Pommers (e.g. the PP goal last night). I actually have wondered what that line(VBP) could do with a regular shift not just the PP.

 

All in all I think there is more potential for a good offensive balance with Roy off the top line and it also gets him away from the top checking lines that I do not think he matches up well against.

[Samson's Flow]

Good post and the bolded points I defintely agree with. I am not saying to trade him unless of course they could get someting better in return but that is true for me for all but save a handful of players on this team that I would keep in a complete rebuild mode.

 

I think against a small NOT physical team like Montreal the VRP line can and did look good. But I do not think it works as well against most of the other teams that can and do put a physical shut down line out against the top line.

 

Watching the games it appears to me that Roy does not create as much space in offensive zone as Adam. If he doesn't have enough room to out manuveur the other player he often loses the puck and he defitely can't work/crash the boards like Adam. That shifts more of that resposnibility to Pommers and Vanek too have play the boards harder/closer with less chances for open cruises/looks in front of the goal. Example of Lindy recognizing this for me is the PP when he puts Roy at the point(which is another discussion) and Boyes at center. Boyes is much harder on the puck along the boards allowing more options for Vanek and Pommers (e.g. the PP goal last night). I actually have wondered what that line(VBP) could do with a regular shift not just the PP.

 

All in all I think there is more potential for a good offensive balance with Roy off the top line and it also gets him away from the top checking lines that I do not think he matches up well against.

You're not the only one. I am further encouraged by how well Boyes looked with Leino and Stafford. That top PP line could also be the #1 line.

[deluca67]

Every playmaker in the league gives the puck away (just wait until Ennis gets back). Also, Roy keeps just as many possessions alive in the O zone when others lose the puck as he gives away.

 

As far as keeping the puck in on the PP, we have said the exact same thing about every single Sabre back there, except MAG (of all people). We use to kill Pominville for this. Roy doesn't lose it any more than any other sabre, the only difference is that our goalies haven't been stopping the puck from going into the net on these rushes lately.

 

I just don't get why it's always about Roy and what he isn't doing. Why are we always talking about what he should be put on? He's a proven finisher. Why don't we ever talk about who should be put on his line to help him out.

 

Complaining about the Sabres top point getter the past few years just seams silly.

Residual effect of Roy's recent playoff failures?

[waldo]

It seem like most of everyone's complaints come from the constant micro-managing of the line combinations, wait,.. no,.. I'm not going to go there,.. this thread is about Roy.

i know, i know you are right on the lines thing.. if lindy would just leave them alone the way they were two weeks ago...win or lose.. and let them gel. as long as Boyes or Adam or Hecht center the one line , i do not really care because i know Roy Stafford and whomever will eventually come together.

[waldo]

You're not the only one. I am further encouraged by how well Boyes looked with Leino and Stafford. That top PP line could also be the #1 line.

 

second the motion.

[...]

I'm wondering why the team got their act together last season after Roy went out.

 

I also wonder why the Vanek and Pommer combo hasn't been producing with such a natural talent as Roy between them.

[nfreeman]

IMHO, Roy is a nice piece as long as you don't have to rely on him to be your #1 center. He's talented but not clutch. He is capable of excellent 2-way play (last night he had a great shift on the backcheck with about 5 min left in the game) but too often he'll make a lazy or bonehead play in the offensive or neutral zone that creates a scoring chance for the opponent.

 

When I think about remaking the Sabres "top 6" due to chronic underachievement, he's my top contender to be traded for a tough forward who can score. I'd be fine if it were Pommer or stafford instead, but Roy is my top choice. (actually, my top choice is that they finally step up and deliver when it counts, but I'm not confident on that.).

[Skibum]

This thread is unbearably lame. First you trash Roy, one of the Sabres' only consistently good players over the past five years. A player whose jock strap you could not hope to carry.

 

Then you bolster your argument with a quote from Bucky effing Gleason?! That guy is such a turd. The players all hate him and he never gets any meaningful information out of them. He babbles on and on about his hunches, which are born out of spite, and he tries to pass it off as journalism.

 

I have never understood all the criticism Roy gets about having no heart or leadership or whatever. Since when? He has had fewer bad nights than anyone else on the roster for many years running. He may play a little too fancy sometimes, but at least he's trying to make things happen. I have never seen him as a floater or as someone who takes a shift off. Not only that, his creativity makes the game fun to watch.

 

I just don't get it with you people. Me first attitude? Where in the world do you get this crap from?

[deluca67]

This thread is unbearably lame. First you trash Roy, one of the Sabres' only consistently good players over the past five years. A player whose jock strap you could not hope to carry.

 

Then you bolster your argument with a quote from Bucky effing Gleason?! That guy is such a turd. The players all hate him and he never gets any meaningful information out of them. He babbles on and on about his hunches, which are born out of spite, and he tries to pass it off as journalism.

 

I have never understood all the criticism Roy gets about having no heart or leadership or whatever. Since when? He has had fewer bad nights than anyone else on the roster for many years running. He may play a little too fancy sometimes, but at least he's trying to make things happen. I have never seen him as a floater or as someone who takes a shift off. Not only that, his creativity makes the game fun to watch.

 

I just don't get it with you people. Me first attitude? Where in the world do you get this crap from?

Thanks for stopping by Derek.

[cdexchange]

Thanks for stopping by Derek.

 

 

I think it's his personal assistant chiming in between games of Guitar Hero.

[Eleven]

This thread is unbearably lame. First you trash Roy, one of the Sabres' only consistently good players over the past five years. A player whose jock strap you could not hope to carry.

 

Then you bolster your argument with a quote from Bucky effing Gleason?! That guy is such a turd. The players all hate him and he never gets any meaningful information out of them. He babbles on and on about his hunches, which are born out of spite, and he tries to pass it off as journalism.

 

I have never understood all the criticism Roy gets about having no heart or leadership or whatever. Since when? He has had fewer bad nights than anyone else on the roster for many years running. He may play a little too fancy sometimes, but at least he's trying to make things happen. I have never seen him as a floater or as someone who takes a shift off. Not only that, his creativity makes the game fun to watch.

 

I just don't get it with you people. Me first attitude? Where in the world do you get this crap from?

 

Crap, it is. Roy isn't perfect, by any means, but he's a very good player whom I wouldn't trade absent a substantial return.

 

 

Thanks for stopping by Derek.

 

Please realize that DeLuca is a known miserable quantity. Great guy, but not really a "glass half full" fellow. Maybe more of a "the team lost the damned glass" type.

 

EDIT: This seems mean, on a re-read. It isn't meant to be so. What's the nicer way of putting this?

 

 

I think it's his personal assistant chiming in between games of Guitar Hero.

 

OTOH, CDX is not a known quantity. Frankly, his chime-in has me questioning my own opinion. But not too much.

 

 

I admit, as in other threads, that I am attached to certain players--again, I root for more than the laundry. But I've also been pretty critical of Roy in years gone by, especially of his former inability to stay up on his skates. I've got no problems with him right now, though, and I think those that would package him with two more NHLers and a pick for Staal either grossly undervalue Roy, grossly overvalue Staal, or both. Probably both. I can only think of a couple of teams in the league where Roy isn't at least a #2 C, and one of them just regained that status tonight.

[nfreeman]

Crap, it is. Roy isn't perfect, by any means, but he's a very good player whom I wouldn't trade absent a substantial return.

 

 

I admit, as in other threads, that I am attached to certain players--again, I root for more than the laundry. But I've also been pretty critical of Roy in years gone by, especially of his former inability to stay up on his skates. I've got no problems with him right now, though, and I think those that would package him with two more NHLers and a pick for Staal either grossly undervalue Roy, grossly overvalue Staal, or both. Probably both. I can only think of a couple of teams in the league where Roy isn't at least a #2 C, and one of them just regained that status tonight.

I wouldn't trade him without a good return either, but suffice it to say I completely disagree about the relative values of Roy and Staal. And if you are saying that Roy gradually has become one of your favorites, well, I suppose it's a free country.

[Eleven]

I wouldn't trade him without a good return either, but suffice it to say I completely disagree about the relative values of Roy and Staal. And if you are saying that Roy gradually has become one of your favorites, well, I suppose it's a free country.

 

It's not quite that he's become one of my favorites as much as it is that he's become part of the team's identity, and I want the team to win with certain guys on it. Otherwise, to me, it becomes a case of just rooting for the sweaters and never for the men in them. I want the team to win, but I want it to win with Miller, Pominville, Roy, Vanek even more so.

[dudacek]

Roy is flawed, but you aren't going to find many better second line centers in this league. (Malkin is NOT a second line centre)

I agree with the poster who said build the second line around him; personally I'd like to see them acquire a Bobby Nystrom/Wayne Cashman type who would crash the net and work the corners for him, not to mention bash some skulls when needed.

Until that happens, Boyes and Gerbe are the best matches.

[LGR4GM]

Would people trade Roy straight up for Jordan Staal?

[Andrew Amerk]

Dammit.

 

I saw the thread title, and thought this would be about Patrick Roy.

[HopefulFuture]

Can someon please just start a thread for every player on the team and a horrible argument as to why they should leave the team???

 

Vanek- He is so streaky and he doesnt hit as much as I want, Sometimes it looks like he isnt trying, Why are we paying him so much to stand in front of the goalie.

 

Gaustad- All this guy can do is win faceoffs, He looked pretty in like two games this year, he didnt defend miller.

 

Miller- Enroth is better, "He doesnt win big games" (only if you discount all the big games he has won)

 

Enroth- Macintyre is better he didnt even let in a goal last night.

 

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

 

 

 

 

This Message Board feels like it is slowly dying, it has yet to get to TBD levels but it seems headed for the same fate.

I take exception to the Miller comment. No one said he doesn't win big games, they (including me) state he has failed in those clutch, must win games that would carry the team to the next level, including the olympic medal.

 

So please, just stop trying to say otherwise, because you can't change history.

[apuszczalowski]

I take exception to the Miller comment. No one said he doesn't win big games, they (including me) state he has failed in those clutch, must win games that would carry the team to the next level, including the olympic medal.

 

So please, just stop trying to say otherwise, because you can't change history.

No, but you can cherry pick parts of it to try and prove whatever you want

 

And whats the difference between big games and clutch, must win games? Who are "They", Your the only one who has been coming here to trying to say that he never wins "clutch, must win games"

[ROCBuffalo]

Great trades are about timing. Taking advantage of a situation is key. Which is why the Sabres should look at a team like the 'Canes and make an offer for Eric Staal. Things are not going well for him this season and the 'Canes have many holes to fill. Offer Roy, a young blueliner and maybe pick or another player off of the roster. It all depends on the mindset of 'Canes at this point. If they are thinking shakeup, the Sabres need to be the team taking advantage of it. This could be another Nathan Horton type opportunity.

 

 

Yeah lets get rid of another center cause they are so plentiful in buffalo.